Listening to America

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#1715 Can We Save Great Salt Lake? Aug 03, 2026

Show notes

Clay interviews Dr. Ben Abbott of Brigham Young University about the crisis of Great Salt Lake. Great Salt Lake is a terminal lake, which means that water comes in but does not flow out. It's a remnant of ancient Lake Bonneville. The volume of the lake is now down by 70% and the surface area it covers is down 60%. Abbott believes we are not more than half a dozen years from the lake's ecological collapse, which would severely damage the brine shrimp industry, expose a large number of toxic chemicals to the Utah winds with devastating effects on human health, and severely impair Utah's important winter ski industry. The good news is that Dr. Abbott believes we can solve this problem and that the people of Utah are sufficiently aware of the crisis to make the lifestyle changes (none dire) that will save and refresh the lake. Ben Abbott says a U.N. agency has recently declared a Global Water Bankruptcy, but that saving Great Salt Lake can serve as a template for a much wider set of water-use reforms in the United States and beyond. This episode was recorded on July 23, 2026.

#1714 Christopher Nolan's Odyssey Jul 27, 2026

Show notes

Host David Horton interviews Clay about Christopher Nolan's new blockbuster film on Homer's Odyssey. How closely does it follow the Homeric original? What changes in theme and character did Nolan make to turn the ancient poem into a film for our time? What should we make of the culture war dispute over the casting of a Black woman as Helen of Troy and a transgender actor as Sinon of the Wooden Horse episode? Since Homer makes the story a triumphant homecoming of the last of the heroes of Troy, why does Nolan make Odysseus a man of regret for the role he played in ending the heroic age and bringing on the long Greek Dark Ages? Is Matt Damon an adequate Odysseus? How about Charlize Theron as the goddess Calypso? What themes was Nolan attempting to wrestle with, and how successful was he? Does it help to have a deep background in the Homeric epics, or is it best to see the film with little or no familiarity with the epic tradition? This episode was recorded on July 23, 2026.

#1713 The Magic of Joshua Jay Jul 20, 2026

Show notes

Clay and his travel partner, Russ Eagle, interview the world-renowned sleight of hand magician Joshua Jay in Las Vegas. In addition to wowing audiences across the United States, Joshua Jay performs in America's prisons and encourages criminals, including hardened ones, to take up magic. He has just returned from a tour of war-torn Ukraine, where he lightened the burden of the Ukrainian people, fighting for their national survival against Russian aggression. Clay gave Joshua Jay the tuxedo of one of the 20th century's greatest sleight of hand magicians, Channing Pollock, for Jay's museum of magic in northwest Las Vegas, which also includes Houdini's straitjacket and his famous needle swallowing apparatus. This episode was recorded on July 14, 2026.

#1712 The Changing Face of Hollywood Jul 13, 2026

Show notes

Clay welcomes Sandra Murray to talk about her 40-year career behind the scenes of major Hollywood film productions. Sandra has worked on over 250 films, including Titanic, King Kong, Les Misérables, and The Lord of the Rings trilogy, most often creating the "Making of the Movie" features that accompany distribution. She has worked with some of the major filmmakers of the last half-century, including her friend Clint Eastwood. The American film industry is undergoing a revolutionary set of changes, not all of them, in her opinion, good. Movie theaters are increasingly empty. Streaming is king. Artificial Intelligence and CGI (Computer-Generated Imagery) are transforming special effects. Independent films are easier and less expensive to make, but much harder to distribute. So many films are produced across so many platforms that there is no longer a common body of movies most Americans have seen. Nobody is quite sure where the film industry is headed, but Sandra Murray shares her insights. This episode was recorded on April 10, 2026.

#1711 Pulitzer Prize-Winning Historian Joe Ellis on America at 250 Jul 06, 2026

Show notes

Clay welcomes Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joe Ellis to the program to discuss America at 250. Ellis is the author of more than a dozen books about the Early National Period. He has been in several Ken Burns documentaries and a wide range of other media projects. Ellis believes the American republic is in grave danger and could still collapse. Still, he hopes that the American people are waking up to the threat to their now-fragile constitutional order. Clay and Joe examine the debate between Thomas Jefferson, who believed in the goodness of humankind and our ability to govern ourselves rationally, and John Adams' view that human nature crossed the Atlantic Ocean with the colonists of the 17th century, and that human passions and selfishness must be factored into any political system that can survive in the long run. This episode was recorded on June 19, 2026.

#1710 President Jefferson Reads the Declaration Jun 29, 2026

Show notes

Host David Horton interviews the third president, Thomas Jefferson, about the circumstances surrounding the writing of the most important document in American history. Arguably the most important document in human history. Jefferson insisted that he was only trying to articulate what every American was thinking in the early summer of 1776. David Horton asks Mr. Jefferson to read the entire text of the Declaration, including the 27-point indictment of King George III and the Parliament of England. Jefferson always reminds us that if the other Founders had known how famous this document would become, Jefferson, just 33, and the youngest member of the Virginia delegation to the Continental Congress, would probably not have been chosen to write the Declaration. This episode was recorded on April 24, 2026.

#1709 America at 250: Historian Lindsay Chervinsky Jun 22, 2026

Show notes

Clay welcomes one of his favorite guests, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, to talk about America at 250. Many Americans are bewildered and frightened by the current state of the Union, unsure how things got so partisan and paralyzed. Instead of offering our personal opinions on the current crisis, we, as historians, attempt to contextualize the present moment within the broad sweep of American history, beginning, of course, with the Founding Fathers. What would Adams and Jefferson say about the world of 2026? Would they be disappointed with us? And what would they urge us to reform as we move forward into the next fifty, one hundred, and two hundred fifty years? And Clay asked Lindsay to point to the Golden Age of American life. You may be surprised by her answer.

#1708 The Amazing Explorations of Francisco Coronado Jun 15, 2026

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Clay interviews Peter Stark, the author of a new book on the 1540 exploration of what would eventually become the United States by Spanish Conquistador Francisco Coronado. The Lost Cities of El Norte is a remarkable examination of an expedition that took place 250 years before Lewis and Clark. The book chronicles Coronado's search for the famed Seven Cities of Cibola, rumored to house untold wealth somewhere in the American Southwest. Coronado's ambitious expedition, one of the largest ever of the New World, traveled as far north as present-day Kansas. Although Coronado pledged to treat indigenous people with respect, that humanitarian impulse soon broke down. But the good news is that the indigenous Puebloan people outfoxed him at every turn, representing one of the earliest successful attempts at native resistance to European imperialism. Stark's previous book, Astoria, told the story of the American fur trade after the Lewis and Clark Expedition. This episode was recorded on May 20, 2026.

#1707 Teddy Roosevelt, National Monuments and Devils Tower, Wyoming Jun 10, 2026

Show notes

From Devils Tower in northwestern Wyoming, Host David Horton and Clay Jenkinson discuss Theodore Roosevelt's conservation achievements. When the National Monuments and Antiquities Act was passed in 1906, President Roosevelt lost no time in setting aside what would become 18 National Monuments, starting with Devils Tower just west of the Black Hills. Roosevelt had little to do with the creation of the Antiquities Act, but he made the most of it, culminating in his colossal designation of Grand Canyon National Monument in 1908. In the course of his two-term presidency, Roosevelt set aside a whopping 230 million acres of National Park, National Forest, National Monument, National Wildlife Refuge, and National Game Preserve. No president has done more. David asked Clay to outline his three-phase Roosevelt conservation tour for 2026. First, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Colorado; later, Montana and Idaho; and in the fall, all of Roosevelt's conservation designations in the Four Corners region of the Southwest.

#1706 Books about the Declaration of Independence Jun 01, 2026

Show notes

Clay and his frequent guest, the redoubtable Lindsay Chervinsky, discuss books written about Jefferson's declaration, arguably the most important document in the history of liberty. Among the titles discussed are Walter Isaacson's recent The Greatest Sentence Ever Written, which celebrates the preamble of the Declaration of Independence, to Garry Wills' award-winning 1978 Inventing America, which locates the inspiration in the Scottish Enlightenment, and Pauline Meier's 1997 American Scripture: Making the Declaration of Independence, which examines local and regional declarations that contributed to Jefferson's great national document. Could any of the other Founding Fathers have written so magnificent a declaration? What role did Jefferson's famous "felicity for expression" play in the historical fame of America's mission statement?

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