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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 919: Natalie Brown: New Book “After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis” Jul 26, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Natalie Brown (JD, University of Virginia School of Law; PhD, Columbia University; Latter-day Saint; Salt Lake Tribune guest columnist; and mother of two) joins us to talk about her new book After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis. In the podcast/book Natalie talks about: How gospel messaging became entwined with individualistic formulas for happiness in the late Twentieth Century How some of the formulas the Church associated with the "plan of happiness" are now economically or otherwise out of reach for many members How happiness should not be used as measuring stick of evidence of gospel truth Problems with the “prosperity gospel” How feeling happy is not a choice for many Latter-day Saints—and they shouldn’t feel judged for this or told to just be “more happy” How to find peace and opportunity after failure and unwanted disruption Finding perspective in Nephi’s story on how to move forward in the face of societal collapse Why she stays in the Church How affordability is a major reality for younger Latter-day Saints Natalie is one of the “wisest and most original thinkers” in our community “tackling the profound question of what constitutes the good life.” If you want to find more peace, hope, and acceptance in your life (and become better at helping others), please read Natalie’s book. Links: Natalie’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H64LBW2B Natalie’s website: https://www.nataliebrown.com/ Natalie’s IG: @nataliebrownwriter Launch Event: July 30th, 6 pm-7:30 pm, Compass Gallery, 250 W, Center Street #101, Provo, UT 84601. RSVP here: https://www.thecompassgallery.com/event-details/after-happiness-book-launch-with-natalie-brown

    Episode 918: Rich Cope, Gay, Successful Career in Real Estate, Super Powerful Story Jul 23, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Rich Cope (early 50s, father of four) join us to share his brave, vulnerable, and honest story in hopes of helping others: Growing up in Utah County and not fitting the mold/expectations for a man Great insights about broadening the definition of masculinity Processing his attractions to men in a vacuum—with no outside support/understanding Serving a mission and learning God loves him and will always be with him Trying to make it work with a woman—be told it will all work out Getting married—good marriage—why that marriage eventually ended Being closeted and being a dad to a gay son (who was out, authentic, and accepted himself) Decision to come out to his wife and then more broadly (lots of acceptance) Powerful testimony on how God loves all of His children—gay or straight Advice for younger LGBTQ folks This was another deeply moving podcast from my friend Rich Cope—who is so vulnerable, real, and honest—all attributes of masculinity. This podcast will help you in you are LGBTQ and help the rest of us better love/accept ourselves, know God’s love for us, and how to better love/support our LGBTQ friends. You are a good man, Rich. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: @richcoperealtor

    Episode 917: Michael Soto, Transgender Man, President/CEO Equality Arizona, Great Soul Jul 20, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Michael Soto (mid-40s, transitioned 20+ years ago, bridge builder including being invited by the Church to attend two Temple open houses, powerful story) joins us to share: Feeling he is a boy since his earliest memories Feeling hopeless Learning he is transgender—realized there was a path for him—for the first time had hope How much transitioning has helped him in all aspects of his life (emotionally, spiritually, career, etc) Powerful story of how his father accepted and supported him Powerful story of how his mother—caring for Micheal after top surgery—fully accepted him Advice to parents who have a child experiencing gender dysphoria I share some thoughts about: Seeing our transgender friends in the parable of the Good Samaritan Importance of proximity—get to know transgender people from them—not from load/fear-based voices How the comparison to being “car sick” helped me to understand gender dysphoria/need to transition Thank you, Michael, for being on the podcast. You are a good man—one of my heroes. Thanks for all you are doing in our world to improve the lives of LGBTQ. Thanks for your great heart, love for everyone, and your discipleship. Links: Equality Arizona: https://www.equalityarizona.org/ Michael Soto on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelscsoto Michael Soto in IG: @michaelsantiagocsoto

    Episode 916: Brent Edwards, Bi-Sexual Latter-day Saint, Mid 50’s Jul 18, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Brent Edwards (active LDS, lives in Joplin Missouri, married) joins us to share his story in hopes that is helps other bisexual Latter-day Saints to not feel alone, don’t have shame, and that God loves them. Brent shares: Pre-mission experiences around being attracted to boys Serving a mission (belated confession to his Mission President—great experience) Getting married—30+ years of not feeling bi-sexual How being bi-sexual gradually became something he needed to address—came out to his wife (good experience) and then his church community Learning how to deal with being bi-sexual in a more healthy way How Brent and his wife concluded he needed to tell his story Powerful spiritual experiences—experience that help other queer Latter-day Saints know God loves them Thank you, Brent, for being on the podcast. Your brave and unique story will help others. Thank you for your courage. You are a good man. Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brent.edwards.71066700 Instagram: @brentedwards505 E-mail: brentedwards@ymail.com

    Episode 915: Scott Mena, The Theater Guy, Gay Latter-Day Saint, Active LDS Jul 15, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Scott Mena (lives in Deltona Florida, mid-30s) joins us to share his amazing story: * Growing up closeted in a world and shame—being gay meant AIDS * Hiding and trying to change * Gaining a testimony * Coming out to his mom and Bishop * Working to solve pornography use * His friend Mickeal * Serving a mission to Denver (positive experience) * Going to Pulse (before the massacre in 2016) * Working through suicidal thoughts * Coming out publicly and getting involved with LGBTQ community (PFLAG, etc) * Living between two worlds (LDS community and LGBTQ community) * Being “Mr. DeLand Pride”, being a drag entertainer, Ward Mission Leader * Help start Volusia Gathering and how it helped his dad * Final testimony Thank you, Scott, for being on the podcast. You story is super powerful and hopeful. You are a great man who was walked a difficult road with courage, faith, and hope. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scottymena/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/scottmenaactor YouTube Channel info - https://www.youtube.com/@scottythetheaterguy Website - http://www.scottmena.com Extra info - https://linktr.ee/thetheaterguy

    Episode 914: Alisha Anderson, Gay, LDS faith, Artist, Same-Sex Marriage, Remarkable Woman Jul 12, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Alisha Anderson (graduate degrees in Environmental Humanities and Masters of Fine Arts, Artist, Writer, Adjunct Professor, mid-30s), joins us to share her queer story center around four main themes: Love is easy when it's based on sameness. The true test of love is difference. Time is one of God’s greatest tools. I've come to believe in a God who does not wish to sacrifice me, but grow me. We need each other—in both our suffering and our joy. As part of these themes, Alisha shares unique and powerful insights are deeply moving—and even after 900+ episodes are unique. Insights that I believe will help other queer Latter-day Saints find hope as they bravely move forward—and insights that help allies/parents better support/love our queer friends. Thank you, Alisha, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you! You are so emotional/spiritual/intellectually mature and thoughtful. You are a gift to our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Instagram: @_a_anderson Website: alishaanderson.org

    Episode 913: Bob Rees, 40+ Years of Supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Jul 10, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend and mentor Robert A. Rees (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), age 90, who loved and supported his gay/lesbian members while serving as a singles ward bishop in Los Angeles from 1986-1992, joins us talk about his new book called “Imagining and Reimaging the Restoration”. Bob talks about how Joseph Smith creative mind allowed him to imagine the impossible leading to the first vision and subsequent revelations—and how we should continue to use his example to imagine and reimagine what is possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Super powerful imagery. Bob also talks about: Why he is a “Matthew 25 Latter-day Saint and Christian” Why is heart is broken for our LGBTQ friends Why he stays in the Church Bob (along with Carol Lynn Pearson, Greg Prince, William Bradshaw, and others) are some of the earliest and most impactful LGBTQ allies. Their brave work and helped so many of our LGBTQ friends and has given new allies (like me) vision to join their LGBTQ ally discipleship. Thank you, Bob, for all your many contributions over many decades. You are a treasure to our community and beyond. Honored to have you on the podcast. You also give vision of what is possible at age 90! Links: Bob’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958824X Bob’s Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees

    Episode 912: Kim B. Puzey, Ministering to the One Jul 08, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend and mentor Kim Puzey (age 75) lives in Oregon, joins us to share his story: * Growing up in a blue-color world * Dad dying at age 12 * Friends dying at age 17 * Surprise decision to serve an LDS mission * 50 years of Church service—but a feeling that he worshipped the Church and callings * Less active, “steeple chaser” looking for the beauty in all faiths * Stroke—going from age 45 to age 75 In some of the most moving segments of any podcast, Kim shares powerful stories of ministering to “the one” including: * Why Walmart is sacred to me * The Chicago L * Importance of names * Waitresses are angels * Workers in the fields I was so moved listening to Kim’s discipleship focused on “the one” with powerful stories of making a difference in people’s lives—the core of our discipleship at followers of Jesus. Thank you Kim of being on the podcast. Thank you for your example to me over these many years. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links : Kim on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kim.b.puzey

    Episode 911: Bob Rees, Re-Release of Episode 385 Jul 05, 2026
    Show notes

    This episode is a re-release of Episode 385 with Bob Rees (orginally released in 2019). See Episode 913 for his newest episode. Episode 385: Dr. Bob Rees, Educator, Writer, Disciple, LGBTQ Ally My friend Bob Rees joins us to share principles and insights to bring our families and congregations together. Bob, who holds a PhD and is the Visiting Professor and Director of Mormon Studies at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (see his Wikipedia page for more info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), was a Bishop in a Los Angeles singles ward from 1986-1992 and created a safe place for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Bob has been an LGBTQ ally for four decades with a “long-view” perspective that his helpful, hopeful, and insightful for other Latter-day Saints. Bob is co-author of the “Family Acceptance Project “(article #7 at www.listenlearnandlove.org/articles) an important document to keep Latter-day Saint families with LGBTQ children united, together and strong. Bob shares deeply moving stories of his work with his LGBTQ friends and asks this question when confronted with a situation “what is the most loving thing I can do”?. Bob also talks about Matthew 25 and the doctrine behind this chapter to reach out and love everyone. I encourage everyone to listen to Bob’s podcast—you will be moved and have more principals to help and support others—and better love like our Savior. Thank you Bob for being on the podcast and your six decades of service to bring others to Christ, feel His love, and bring us together as the same human family.

    Episode 910: Eric Chaffey, Mid-50’s, Gay Latter-day Saint, Super Brave Jul 03, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Eric Chaffey (talented organist and director, grew up in Oregon/Northern California, lives in Salt Lake City) joins us to share some of this story including: Realizing his was gay during his teenage years (in the 80s). Incredible supportive dad Being a sexual assault survivor While at the MTC, telling Priesthood Leadership about being sexually assaulted which ended his mission (medical release) and put him in conversion therapy (super painful part of his story) Conversion therapy counselor shifted from conversation therapy to helping his heal from sexual abuse While active in the Church, he is often frustrated and discourage about the lack of support for LGBTQ members Very helpful community in his local ward Eric takes us back into a time we the church and society believe being gay was a choose and when there was no/little support. It’s heartbreaking to hear these stories. Yet with all the headwind Eric has faced, he bravely moves forward with courage and grace. Thank you Eric for being on the podcast. You are good man. Your story will help others. Links: Eric’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/echaffey

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