Leaving Hillsong

Gatorade + Gummie Bears Part 1 Nov 18, 2024

Laura and Tanya dive face first into the narcissist face off between Carl Lentz and his mate of 3 seconds Russell Brand in the recent episode of Brand's podcast.

It's a trainwreck of an offering and we're there to count the collateral damage. Or do the laughing and pointing that is so very needed at this point.

We listen and react and go back for more.

These boys are like rashes that keep coming back no matter how many trips you take to the clinic.

At least you know, we'll be there to keep scratching at them.

Come chat!!

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Gatorade and Gummie Bears: Intro - Laura Wept Nov 17, 2024

Truth is stranger than the Bible and one day, Carl Lentz and Russell Brand made a podcast and I'm not lying but guess who is?

Those people who make allegations about them! :(

Join Laura and me for this special series looking at this horror because we couldn't look away.

This is the intro.

Come chat!

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The Power Vacuum Nov 10, 2024

Ever played Whack-a-Mole? Well, evangelical churches are the same.

No sooner than one mammoth gargoyle is smacked down, another one jumps right out at you.

Join me and Jake Elliot from the Framework as he updates us on Bethel's sordid plans for the Land

Down Under and the whole world really.

My favourite part is about the Kansas City Chiefs prophecy. This is a main course of ridiculousness so come chat with us and you'll be up to speed with the new bosses.

And the brand new revival they keep on promising! Come chat!

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A Nerdy Brain pt 2 Nov 03, 2024

We talk a lot about white supremacy in the churches and Christian nationalism.

But we rarely hear what it's like for someone from a refugee background, with brown skin who has been in the congregation and willing to speak truth to power.

Truth to power.

An important concept for those who aren't the ones telling the stories usually, because they're not the ones with the power.

I'm so excited to hear from the brave, smart, and peace seeking, Bee on what all those smilling faces in all those crowds may well be thinking, feeling and living with in a place like Australia, the so-called Lucky Country.

What does it take to get some of that luck?

Come chat!!

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A Nerdy Brain Oct 27, 2024

What happens when a smart, young Hindu woman discovers Jesus?

Bee faced a bunch of barriers before she even started school. Her family fled a civil war and found refuge in Australia.

Then after a search for self, she got saved and wound up in a vibrant, multicultural church.

Then she discovered truth.

Her truth! so come chat!

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The Birthday Party is Over Oct 24, 2024

All good fraud operatives come to an end.

Even mafia bosses have their day.

So what happens now that BCH has no where to take his friends?

Leaving Hillsong’s Source - the Sauce - is back to update us on the Giant Birthday Party and it’s not good news for BCH anyway.

Pull up a trench coat, put your ear to the door or just come chat!

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The Normal Order of Things Sep 29, 2024

When the bodies are piling up,, the grown ups are rolling on the floor, or barking like dogs or crying hysterically and you're a 5 year old n church. WHERE CAN YOU RUN?

How are you going to get your baby sister and brother out of there? Why won't dad do ANYTHING?

Laura Hamilton was 5 when she had to plot her family's escape from a scary, scary place

They got out... but it wasn't the end...

Join me, Tanya and Laura to read and then explain her story about a childhood in the 90's that was not the normal order of things, but when you're a chiild,what do you know and more than that, what can you do??

COME CHAT!!

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that last ditched crew Sep 22, 2024

Can you get demons from incense? how do exvangelicals approach other cultures and their religions and spirituality?

Why did Brian want such a young church?

why were people so excited to go to conference?

Grace is just that little bit younger than me, a generaation or 5 and her experiences, wide and vast, are widely, vastly different from my own. In the ssme cult.

The impacts are the same and different. You can hear it in both of us.

Join us as we display our traumas pretty much live and unedited and out for the world to see.

What can I say? Come chat !

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The Rehab Product - a Mad Stitchup Sep 15, 2024

What is Joel Houston Derangement Syndrome?

How have evangelicals affected indigenous cultures?

What is redress?

GRACE IS BACK well she never really went anywhere but she called me a couple months ago and this is what she said:

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The Comeback Sep 08, 2024

Why do some people never know when enough is enough?

How many times can you get knocked down and get back up again despite all good advice and caring professional input?

When is a comeback a good idea and who knows?

Will Pat Mesiti ever stop? Will Brian? What about those pesky Lentzes...

And what about US? Come chat!!

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Just A Wacko - pt 2 Misogyny, Donald Elley and AoG Men May 05, 2024

Laura contacted blogger Donald Elley, an outspoken and extremist commentator on Hillsong and all things righteous and Christian. Laura was seeking resources for a documentary. Donald was seeking so much more, it became, in the words of BCH, unhinged.

Misogyny in evangelicalism and Hillsong type places is over the top and we're calling it out for what it is, starting with an easy example of hypocrite and hyperbole, Donald Elley of Bellingen.

Come chat!

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Just a Wacko - Misogyny at Hillsong et al part 1 Apr 28, 2024

Laura is a Leaving Hillsong pod guest, educator, artist, creator and some time film maker... you've met her before...today we start mammoth task of facing misogyny in the halls of Hillsong and well, right down to the altar call... Laura and Tanya discuss the narcissistic template for pentecostal boys and girls and how maleness is privileged, esteemed and honoured, while femaleness is subservient and ever diminished and minimised.

It happened to Laura.. while researching for her latest project, she quickly became the object of obsession for one of the pentecostal peacocks.. a writer, a decent good Christian man, son of a minister... the kind of human the fundies love to think they are...

until it becomes clear that they are very much nothing like that at all.

It's terrifying and it's time to talk about it. ... so come chat!!

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Prosper Pt 2 It's A Lot Apr 21, 2024

Tanya and PCD continue on with their dissection of the show 'Prosper', particularly, well only, episode 1..in this short, sharp, episode.. what will happen next in this Australian drama within an Australian drama is anyone's guess

Come watch and chat!

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"PROSPER" review w PCD Part 1 Apr 14, 2024

"Prosper" is the Australian drama starring Rebecca Gibney and Richard Roxborough released Jan 2024.

We thought we'd react/review and relate it to who and what we know... which is a fair bit... but who's the leak/s?

Come join me and PCD as we talk action/drama/plot/themes and '''do you think...?"

There's no official affiliation - PCD just loved it sooo much..

So come chat!

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Mine is the Kingdom pt 2 Mar 31, 2024

David and Tanya continue their chat about his new book .. Mine Is The Kingdom and chat about Brian Houston's protege, former Aussie PM Scott Morrison, or was it the other way around?

The divine rights of kings extends throughout the church and the state -

What can we do about it? Anything ?

Just a couple of eagles... bound for glory.. Come chat!

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Mine is the Kingdom Mar 24, 2024

Veteran investigative journalist, and Walkely winner, David Hardaker, talks about his new book, Mine Is the Kingdom, the Rise and Fall of Brian Houston, which has just been released.

The book details Houston's life as well as the inner workings, and tax breaks, of Hillsong.

As an outsider without Pentecostal Traumatic Stress Disorder, David's work is thorough, in depth and with minimal personal bias...although he admits developing an unexpected fondness for an aspect of this research and you will be surprised too!

Come chat!

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Hillsong Boy Mar 21, 2024

Hillsong Boy, the show, starts this weekend!!!

WE go backstage with the STAR Scott Parker to talk the how's, whys and wows of SHOWBIZ!

Come chat

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Into the House part 3 Mar 17, 2024

the effects of being in a program like Mercy Ministries/ Multiplied are long lasting.. and deep.

Sarah and Britt outline life after getting out and away and the very real impacts of the terrifying and intense indoctrination that such places instil.

It's the final ep for now.. but there's more and the best is always yet to come out!

This one is a tough one and we talk hard times psychologically... and life on the other side!!

Come chat!

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Into the House Part 2 Mar 12, 2024

Mercy Ministries offered Sarah and Britt y health treatment in a faith based program.

After arriving, they found it was very different, and that rather than treat their mental health concerns, the enclosed and punitive program made life so much worse.

Sharing details of the daily lives, ways out and impacts of MM, these two women bring truth into the sun, but not before many years have brought them to this safer place and we are grateful for their voices.

So come chat!

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Into the House pt 1 Mar 03, 2024

Britt (the Prosperity Lounge) and Sarah (Delusions of Reference) met while they were both at Mercy Ministries, the 'rehab' for young women 'in trouble.'

Told this was the one stop, and last stop, for all their mental health struggles and life challenges, that they would be once and finally healed, the two found that despite being promised 'holistic and professional care', it would take many months and years to recover from this 'rehab'.

Join us as these courageous and strong women tell the story of hell in the place of healing run by a strange set of cronies, Nancy Alcorn, and the Hillsong gang.

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The Prosperity Lounge Feb 25, 2024

w Britt

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Delusions of Reference pt 2 Jan 28, 2024

Sarah has bipolar disorder and a history with Hillsong (and also Mercy Ministries but that's later)

What was that like? and what did Sarah see?

What happens when the indefensible becomes all too real?

Come chat!

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Delusions of Reference pt 1 Jan 21, 2024

Hillsong hurts mental health. But what's it like when you have a pre-existing diagnosis, you're 2o years old, and you hear a message of hope and healing?

Sarah was in Hillsong for 6 years and shares her experiences of how the message, culture, environment and people all influenced her mental health... and how she sees it influencing others... and the community at large.

Don't miss this episode... on Leaving Hillsong !

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Strange and Malleable Things Dec 31, 2023

You read the verdict! Or you heard the verdict on this very show and today, Crimimal Law Accredited Specialist Andrew Tiedt speaks to us with what he made of this verdict and the decision by His Honour.

What is reasonable?

Was this a reasonable outcome and what about all that perjury?

Come listen to an expert explain the hows and whys of BCH's NOT GUILTY and where was Nabi?

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A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Metaverse Dec 26, 2023

Twas the night before Xmas when author and activist Matt Drapper talked late night secrets with Tanya -

the best kind, too - other people's ...

Join us as we leave no stone or stoner unturned in our quest for more information to bring YOU.

Because there's a reason for the season - and that's to see whether everyone else is doing better than you, or worse. ... SO JOIN US FOR SOME XMAS FUN - the Hillsong edition!

We talk marriage, divorce, and WHAT THE HELL WENT ON IN THOSE MEETINGS WITH SHERYL SANDBERG?

If you leave your job as pastor do you also surrender your AI assistant?

Who's running virtual Hillsong if no one can handle the IRL one?

Join us as we look at the new scandals and analyse strangers so as to distract from our own Xmas pain. :)

It's a lot of fun... come chat!

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the End of An Era pt 2 Dec 17, 2023

We drag Grace out of paradise on vacation to talk all things

Brian again as he wants his money back! oh the irony... then Grace outlines the redress scheme and various other topics along the way get thrown around with a whole bunch of HOW COME questions..

this is a fun one! and a serious one! so come chat!

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The End of An Era w Grace Dec 03, 2023

Grace hit town and she had a thing or 2 to say... so we kicked off this chat w a visit back to Hillsong and who she saw and who she didn't...! Join Tanya and Grace for a good old time catch up including a bunch of probably defamatory accusations that if you know, you know.

All fun and games til someone loses their credentials..

Come chat!

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judgment day pt 3 Nov 19, 2023

LEGAL DIRECTIONS and DISCERNMENT end the judgment by Magistrate Gareth Christophi in his findings re former pastor Brian Houston's criminal trial in Sydney last year.

This 3rd part is made up of the judge's own directions to himself and his final conclusions and verdict decision.

DON'T MISS OUT ! these are the transcripts from NSW local court where the trial was held! this is word for word...what happened.. so YOU CAN DECIDE!

PART 3 IS READ BY author, (Lesser Light, Bringing Me Back to Me), historian, activist and sometimes co-host of LEAVING HILLSONG, Matthew Drapper for a touch of class!

This is ONLY AVAILABLE here! Come chat!

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Judgment Day Part 2 Nov 10, 2023

pt 2 of the reading of verdict transcripts from NSW Local Court in the trial of Brian Houston for Concealing a Serious Indictable Offence.

This is the reading of the judgment by Magistrate Gareth Christopher on 17 August 2023.

thx to Jake Elliot and PCD for voices!

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Judgment Day pt 1 Nov 05, 2023

Ex pastor Brian Houston's verdict read from the transcripts of his day in court for concealing a serious indictable offence.

Direct from NSW courts... a world first.. the entire verdict... well, part 1.. with Tanya Levin and Jake Elliot!

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This Secret Club Part 2 Sep 17, 2023

When Troy's older brother, Peter, started attending Hillsong, Troy kept quiet. But when his 'trance' like state became more concerning, Troy tagged along.

This fascinating tale of two brothers and their strong bond is continued in this episode.

Troy, a social worker in London, is a very measure and fair type, wanting to be rational and just, yet he found it was too hard to accept Hillsong as anything other than a secret club, a cult.

Come chat as we find out how he managed to get Peter out.. and what life's like now!

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This Secret Club pt 1 Sep 10, 2023

When Troy's brother Peter started hanging with the Hillsongers in London, he tried to be understanding.

But as it progressed, Troy had some real concerns...and he loved his brother... Troy tells the story of brotherly love and how he followed his brother all the way to the altar...

Come chat!

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A Spiritual Milkshake w Geoff Bullock pt 3 Sep 03, 2023

Geoff Bullock and Brian Houston were good mates.

Until they weren't when Geoff left.

One doesn't leave a narcissist without punishment. And Geoff was punished in every way they could think up.

In part 3, Geoff recalls the man he used to call a friend and tells us what he'd say to his old buddy if he could.

This is a bittersweet story of love, loss and friendship and.. A spiritual milkshake.

Come chat!

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The Anti-Christ Vultures - the Verdict pt 3 Aug 27, 2023

SOCIAL MEDIA INFLUENCERS HOUSTONS Laura, Roberta Lee and Brian Charles were out in full mediocrity and DSM IV criteria following THE VERDICT. suddenly the legal system is the bees' knees. And the judge is honorable and they care about victims.

Super cute if it weren't too little, too late.

Come read along and follow the bouncing ball of snake oil selling and hypocrisy.

Let's talk!

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The Anti-Christ Vultures pt 2 - The Verdict Aug 20, 2023

YOLANDI B and Tanya dive back into the BOLT 💙 HOUSTON 💙 HOUSTON interview and we talk a lot and listen and talk about two of the most privileged humans complain about one going to court.

We've pulled it apart so you don't have to and next up is a gossip ep so.. jump in! Come chat!

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The Anti-Christ Vultures - The Verdict pt 1 Aug 20, 2023

Immediately after Brian Houston was found not guilty of concealing a serious indictable offence, he was interviewed by Andrew Bolt of Sky News.

In this interview, Houston chooses his words and reactions carefully, as does Bolt.

Yolandi Bosch, former Hillsong student and advocate, was concerned, as a Christian, who identifies as conservative, about WHAT Houston was saying.

So we had a chat... and we took this theatre apart in our way!

Come talk with us!

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A Spiritual Milkshake - w Geoff Bullock pt 1 Aug 06, 2023

Geoff Bullock and his mate, Mike Smith knew each other from high school. When Mike had a radical salvation experience in his early 2o's, Geoff wanted to know, too.

He went to the church, met Frank Houston and then, met Brian Houston, and they became best buds

Geoff found the piano, and the rest, as they say, is history.

So we're going back over that history... and what it was like being a late 20's pastor at Hills CLC... when Brian was just a and we ask

What Happened!!! What happened to 5th Beatle Mike? What happened to Brian?

And ... we find out where Geoff is up to!!

This is a chat you won't want to miss!

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Keep Moving Forward w Angel Huertas pt 2 Jul 31, 2023

In Part 2 of Angel's story of Hillsong Bible college in Sydney, after his visa is cancelled, far from home and family, Angel makes moves to take back control of his life and his thinking...

We find out what happened with immigration and the mountain of lessons learned from and in spite of...being a Hillsong bible college student..

Join Pedagogist and Cat Lover, Angel Huertas, talking about Leaving Hillsong and Leaving church and finding out what and whom to trust!

Come chat with us in Puerto Rico!

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Keep Moving Forward w Angel Huertas pt 2 Jul 31, 2023

In Part 2 of Angel's story of Hillsong Bible college in Sydney, after his visa is cancelled, far from home and family, Angel makes moves to take back control of his life and his thinking...

We find out what happened with immigration and the mountain of lessons learned from and in spite of...being a Hillsong bible college student..

Join Pedagogist and Cat Lover, Angel Huertas, talking about Leaving Hillsong and Leaving church and finding out what and whom to trust!

Come chat with us in Puerto Rico!

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Keep Moving Forward pt 1 Jul 30, 2023

Angel Huertas hails from Puerto Rico and in 2005, he was super excited to go to bible college in Sydney, Australia!

He packed up and set sail for sunshine and theology and he found something very different. Far from home, when things took a turn for the not so happy.... Angel realised how far away he really was..

Angel is a teacher and shares his learnings with us ... tonight... come chat!

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A Bad Long Weekend Pt 2 Jul 23, 2023

Following last week's plunge into the sordid and sincere, PCD and TL chat more about

#why PCD thinks BCH should 'wake up every morning screaming'

#what the 'words of knowledge' are really all about in the pentecostal movement

#if Christianity offers any 'good' at all...

#what those people are still doing in #thatplace!

and so much more so don't wait a second longer!

Come chat!

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A Bad Long Weekend Pt 1 Jul 16, 2023

Paul Castle Dine made a $5 bet with a friend about the group with the tambourine that were camped outside his job at Mcdonalds as a teen... he won... well, he was right.. but it lead directly to his initiation into the Hills Christian Life centre which unbeknownst to anyone least of all PCD in the mid 1980s was going to explode one day into the virus called Hillsong.

Your loyal host is always up for a step back in time and so well, between the old Donna stories and some Brian lore, we found time to shake our heads in nostalgic horror about a world hit by one disease and about to endure a plague of a different kind.

Join this alumni for some inside dirt and some equally strong views now ... !!! Come chat!

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The Grifter Highway w Janice Lagata part 3 Jul 09, 2023

In the final part of The Grifter Highway, Janice Lagata from God Has Not Given in New York shares some more views on the people that ran the New York Hillsong.

We talk about the finances that the 'church' threw around and spent and how did they end up with no money again?

Can there be redemption for Hillsong? What will happen to Carl Lentz?

And a quick question about where Brian has citizenship??? hmmmm

Find out in part 3! Come chat!

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The Grifter Highway w Janice Lagata Jul 03, 2023

@godhasnotgiven Star Janice Lagata continues her discussion from New York City with Tanya about:

hell
podcasts
friends who think you're going to hell
leaving church
whatever might be going on in preachers' heads when they spend up all that money!

So come talk the big talk as we travel further on down The Grifter Highway... come chat!

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The Grifter Highway w Janice Lagata Jul 02, 2023

Writer, performer, musician and host of top-rating #exvangelical and life podcast @godhasnotgiven, Janice Lagata, joins Tanya Levin to discuss her story of being in and leaving the most famous of all the Hillsongs--- New York City with Pastor Carl Lentz.

Teamed up to discuss the internal investigation report from the lawyers, we move on to topics including Janice's own history and her perspective now the report, the pastors, and the leaders are all OUT...

This is nothing if not HONEST and Janice is her warm, funny wise self as we take a look at... The Grifter Highway...

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The Closing Arguments - TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS Jun 25, 2023

On 15 and 16 June, the closing arguments in the trial of R v Brian Charles Houston were heard at Sydney's Downing Centre, the prosecution and the defence allocated one day each.

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and me, Tanya were there both days to see these things in real life and he took notes while I stared at Bobbie.

We take a good stab at understanding what took place, offer some opinions for what they're worth and we even hear from our LH lawyer !

I don't think the prosecutor is Scottish but it was exciting to think so... this case is so detailed ... the best is still yet to come out!!!

Come chat!!

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How This All Started - An Interview with Peter Fox - whistleblowing detective Jun 18, 2023

Peter Fox is a former Detective Chief Inspector of the NSW Police force and had been on the force for decades when he came across cover ups in the Catholic church of pedophilia in the very neighbourhood he commanded.

Worse yet, when he brought this to the attention of the police, he was directed to hand over his investigation.

Mr Fox blew the whistle and demanded a royal commission into these issues. It cost him his career, but not his will.

I was thrilled to talk to Peter about how he sparked a royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse in Australia, and his thoughts on Hillsong.

DON'T MISS THIS!!

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Carl Lentz and the Trouble at Vanity Fair Part 3 Jun 11, 2023

Why did the Vanity Fair documentary nosedive into a promo piece for a perp with multiple complaints about his leadership, his behaviour, his financial misappropriation, sexual exploitation, labour exploitation, coercive control and on and on including spiritual abuse?

We may never find out, although I suspect we will... but today we conclude the Carl Lentz VF exploration with Tanya's first hand account of working with the producers... and being deceived... and feeling scammed.

Shaun Nemorin, M.S.W. , U.N.H.C.R staff, and former Leaving Hillsong podcast guest - An Economy of Souls- had wanted to interview Tanya...and this is the conversation they had, ...

what has the hunt for truth cost Tanya?
what has the recent foray with Vanity Fair been like? up close with the bright lights?
how does connection make us feel less alone?
how to deal with issues of trust and being taken for a ride?
what does 'the institution', as Shaun calls it, need to do to affect change?
will Vanity Fair get away with it? !

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Carl Lentz and the Trouble at Vanity Fair part 2 Jun 05, 2023

What did BCH ask Tanya Levin after more than 23 years of no contact when they caught up at court?

Why did Tanya get arrested while Justin Bieber was at conference?

We continue Luc Hilton's interview with Leaving Hillsong host, Tanya Levin in part 2 of this very special episode ...

don't miss it!!

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Carl Lentz and the Trouble at Vanity Fair Part 1 Jun 04, 2023

Vanity Fair's recent 'documentary' The Secrets Of Hillsong had a really big secret it kept from most of the participants - they were being interviewed without knowing that the source of so many complaints of abuse, celeb loving pastor from New York, Carl Lentz was actually using this for a comeback. Or using Vanity Fair or from most ways you look at this, the positive light shines bright like a diamond in a pastor's Rolex.

And we got scammed. Bad. Just lied to... and here we are.

So, i decided, since Vanity Fair used my expertise for their movie then erased my book and this pod... pushing all that aside to make room for Carl and Laura ....

Luc Hilton did this interview with me, Tanya Levin on 23 Jan 2023 who knew how useful it would be?

If they refuse to tell the right story and there SO MUCH wrong with this show... then I'll tell you about me!!

Come Chat!

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A Visit from the Ancients - Bobbie's Massage May 28, 2023

Bobbie Houston, the former Biggest Shot at Hillsong, has been preaching up a storm at her frenemy's church, Wendy Treat over in Seattle, blissfully ignorant of the reality of her husband's bad behaviour and inability to shave.

Or is she? Join me, Tanya and James, our resident Mental Health consultant as we look over the myriad of drivel and confessions that pour out of the heart/mouth of Roberta Lee Houston nee McDonald.

Is she a witch? Is she mentally ill? Is she lying? All 3? You decide tonight as we hear all about Bobbie's God moments and A visit from the ancients!

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A Strong, Buff Jesus - Part 2 May 21, 2023

Carl Lentz was an unusual pastor to his New York City sheep and they loved every moment of him.

Until they didn't.

Long before Lentz's famous fall, Nate, a native New Yorker was on the production team at Carl's NY franchise, and he joins us again with his fiance, Gail, a Canadian, who also comes from a background of evangelicalism.

We chat about Carl, and Josh, and Darnell, and what it's like to SERVE under the KING ... we also have a fun time talking about what's the point of Brian Houston? and the hooks that these snake oil shepherds use to keep their sheep in line.. the guilt, and so often.. the feeling of responsibility for others in a church where there are predators and threats.

So come visit New York with us, me, Tanya, and Gail, and Nate and let's chat! Oh and check out Full Mutuality, the podcast by the pod guests!

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A Strong, Buff Jesus Pt 1 May 14, 2023

Gail is from Canada. Nate is from New York. Both are from an evangelical background and wound up engaged.

Nate and Gail from the Full Mutuality Podcast talk American fundamentalism and Hillsong NYC and the highs and lows it offered.

In Part 1 we meet them and find out how Nate went from being taught he was 'worse than Judas' to being up close and personal with some of New York's finest... Christians.

Come chat!

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Chocolate Cake - the Soul Survivor Fiasco May 07, 2023

Drapps, our UK correspondent, joins us to talk Mike Pilavachi and Soul Survivor and the recent #SCANDAL to hit the UK.

We talk about what happens when young men feel uncomfortable and how an entire movement. based on celibacy turned out not to be so.

What to do next? well, come chat and let's find out!

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By the Door of the Ear part 3 Apr 30, 2023

Scott and his wife Kat join us for part 3 of our deep dive into the MUSIC of Hillsong... how it's created and how it's weaponized for crowds... and then, something happened... as we were talking about growing up in Hillsong, Scott spoke of abuse at Youth Group, physical, psychological, and sexual.

This is an intense episode with a passion expressed that is as raw as any church service.

What is criminal and what is....religious freedom?

Don't miss this episode... And if you're a parent who goes to church... this one's for you!

Come chat!

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By the Door of the Ear Part 2 Apr 25, 2023

The Hillsong liturgy? TONIGHT we take apart the magic of Hillsong music and its worldwide influence.. how does it work?

And who gets to be a STAR?

Find out who gets chosen to play the role of musician in the Greatest Megachurch Show on Earth!

Scott and Kat both had roles on stage and they guide us through the highly scripted and highly influential music machine that is Hillsong music in part 2.. come chat!!

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By the Door of the Ear pt 1 Apr 23, 2023

"I know the people who wrote those songs!", says Scott's friend in the 7th grade.

"Really! thinks Scott, then I'm going to that Hillsong Church...."

For 15 years Scott sang Hillsong songs on stage and learned all there is about music... well, Hillsong music. In the mean time, Kat was growing up on the North Coast of NSW and going Uniting, until she took a gap year for college... and before she was classically trained at the Conservatorium.

Together they made all kinds of music (groan, yes) and now married for 7 years, baby makes 3.

But they're no longer in Hillsong after all the promises and dreams were laid out.

So what happened? and what IS backstage like?

Come talk with Scott and Kat ... :)))))

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Outta the Woods part 3 Apr 09, 2023

3/ what's life been life like since? For former pastors Craig and Sam Wood, life has been fantastic.

but it was rough at the start, when they first left Hillsong and went out into the world.

Stripped of their daily support systems and employment, Sam and Craig had to start from scratch.

What did they do?

Where did they turn and how did they make it through?

We talk faith, life and relationships on Leaving Hillsong part 3 with this incredible couple! Come chat!!

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Outta the Woods Part 2 Apr 08, 2023

Pastor Craig had a question for Pastor Brian Houston when he ran into him.

The answer changed the course of the Woods family's lives FOREVER...So what was so important and then what did Craig and Sam do once they were handed the answer in a way only BCH gives answers?

Find out on Part 2 of outta the woods!!

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Outta the Woods Part 1 Apr 07, 2023

Former Hillsong pastors talk for the first time about 8 years spent in the leadership roles after many years before at church and in ministry.

Then along came Brian Houston. And in minutes, everything changed.

Join us for this next-level chat about what it's like to start, run, pioneer and lead only for it to come crashing down and the whole family has to start from the beginning!

#pastors #hillsong #leavinghillsong #exvangelical #evangelical #pods

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A Giant Birthday Party feat. Barry Bowen Apr 03, 2023

What about Uncle Sam and #Hillsong? Does the IRS want to know about these gifts and honoraria?

Is Brian supposed to pay tax on the money he collects overseas and are his mates supposed to pay tax on the tax deducted money that is tax exempt that is given to THEM when they hit Aussie shores?

Barry Bown, chief investigator of Leaving Hillsong but usually the Trinity Foundation has been thrilled by the Whistleblower Documents dropped by Andrew Wilkie, MP, in Canberra March 9. He's here to show us the rights but mostly wrongs of these wacky characters and outlines the tax evasion, exemption, avoidance, and just plain old ignorance that is going on around the world and in the USA by megachurch pastors.

You won't want to miss this Global Senior Explanation of the racket called Hillsong!

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A Giant Birthday Party- ft The Source Apr 02, 2023

THE SOURCE IS BACK. Saucy Source gives us the lowdown on tax loopholes which are gaping wide if you are a pastor, or his spouse or his kids or his car or house.

Life is good when you pay no tax on anything but it also involves a lot of gift giving and we jump into that.

The Sauce is undercover and disguised his voice but he's got A LOT to tell you about honoraria and cash and gifts and life as a pastor and his accountant. We also cover a little Gary Clark history from the good old days #horrible #hillsong #history #leavinghillsong #etc #weseeyou #timesup

Come chat !!

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The Kind of People That They Are Mar 19, 2023

What kind of people spend $12,000 to change a flight? What kind of people are these big spenders in the name of God? S.J. got in touch and wanted to go through the Whistleblower Docs on the pod so we sat down and had a good old chat about hankies, and phones, phone cases, Shady and Freddy from J.C. Travel (yes, it is what you think) , private jets, mouth ulcer ointment and every expenditure she found horrific and hilarious.

Come join me, Tanya, and S.J., a Leaver from way back, as we dive again into the credit cards and lifestyles of the rich and the righteous!.

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The Whistleblower's Report Comedy Special Mar 14, 2023

Blow those whistles, everyone, cos the report is OUT!

Grab your copy from the Leaving Hillsong Instagram and facebook links and come laugh along at the people who... well you these people!

We rip the report up and defame every name we can so that you don't have to!

Laugh or cry it's up to you! We chose to point and giggle. And we hope you can join us!

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The One with Glen Moses Part 2 Mar 12, 2023

Glen and I talk change in the megachurch and say 'the megachurch must die' a bunch of times.

Glen continues to stress his faith over his church and we discuss the heartache and tough times after leaving a place like Hillsong.

Uncertainty and injustice are themes in the Moses family's lives and Glen talks openly about how they've managed the losses and realisations that come with #leavinghillsong

so don't miss The One with Glen Moses..

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The One w Glen Moses Mar 11, 2023

Glen Moses attended Hillsong for 6 years before they parted ways.

In that time Glen and his wife Natalie saw many things that concerned them and Glen shares that with us today.

He started a Youtube called the Megachurch Must Die and he's here to explain why that is... what alternatives he sees and why he still loves God.

So come chat about The One with Glen!

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The Closer I Get to God Part 2 Mar 05, 2023

What do you get when the UK meets Sydney meets Baton Rouge, Louisiana? THIS CHAT!

De, Drapps and I continue to wade through life's most uncomfortable questions:

Can you be Christian and gay?

What's the difference between church and hypnosis?

Is God just a drug?

Come join us for this special #lgbt #worldpride #recap as De gives us his POV on and sundry and why the further he gets away from church...?

Well you'll have to find out! Talk soon!

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The Closer I Get to God Part 1 Mar 04, 2023

De'Vannon, Drapps and I talked last June for #pride but the interview never made the month

De's story is too great to miss so I saved it up and here we are with worldpride and this conversation is still so rich and so relevant.

De'Vannon grew up in the South of the USA in a faith based home and community and has seen his own trials and tribulations, literally.

He's been in Lakewood Church serving under Joel Osteen, he's been in prison, and now he's just into podcasts and being his own pastor.

Join us for an #LGBT special event with De's ideas on what it means to be a Black gay Christian man living in Louisiana and loving life!

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A Giant Slot Machine Part 2 Mar 02, 2023

OUR resident mental health expert James and me Tanya carry on for a bit about Bobbie Houston, her husband, her marriage, but most of all her thoughts when creating the social media posts that she does.

We're basically lost for words but we do our best and well, just come chat with us!

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A Giant Slot Machine - Part 1 Feb 26, 2023

"Hey Tanya" the SMS said. "Do you think it's Hubris Syndrome or Narcissism?"

James, our resident mental health professional was asking me about the recent posts by former #Hillsong #leader #Bobbie Houston.

So we decided to take a closer look..

Come read Case Notes with us!

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A Cult Within A Church with Laura Hamilton - Part 2 Feb 19, 2023

Laura discusses her final days at #Hillsong Bible College and what life's been like since.

She also discusses the statements Hillsong made in response to her interview with Business Insider's Rich McHugh from their #newsroom.

Laura talks about the pressures from all sides to fit the Hillsong model and make it big... and what happens when you speak up against a place that size!

Come chat with us!

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A Cult Within a Church (feat Laura Hamilton) Part 1 Feb 12, 2023

Laura Hamilton is the 2nd former #Hillsong #college student named in the article named here

followinng the interview Yolandi Bosch (last week's episode) and she gave with Rich McHugh and Business Insider in 2020.

If you have a #Hillsong story, #leavinghillsong is the place to tell it, and Laura explains the circumstances that lead to her enrolment and eventual 'depersonalisation', career crisis, and financial desperation.

We've heard so much of what these big corporations have to say. It's great to hear the other side/s!

Come chat!

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You’re Going to Be Cleaning Floors Part 2 (feat. Yolandi) Feb 08, 2023

Yolandi B was accused of 'concerning behaviour' as a student of Hillsong college. In Part 2 she responds to this lurid term and tells her story.

Bible college is the golden goose of any church, if it wants to save on those nasty taxes.

But what happens when students don't produce the gold? What happens if they get sick? Is 20 hours a week reasonable for toilet cleaning as a practical element of a course you've paid thousands to attend?

Grab your bag and your books and come listen in and take notes! The best is yet to come out!

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You’re Going to Be Cleaning Floors Part 1(Feat Yolandi B) Feb 05, 2023

Yolandi Bosch is a former Hillsong student who worked hard to get to the college and even harder to get away from it when the rug was pulled from under her.

Recently she found a response to an interview she was in from #hillsong's "newsroom" and it got her a little upset.

Join Yolandi and I as we review this article, the college, visas for international students and what, if any, the costs of speaking out have been.

Was it worth it? Find out

#college #aog #pentecostal #biblecollege #exvangelical #evangelical #students #NDA #sh

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Their Own Set of Rules (feat Grace) Part 3 Jan 31, 2023

Grace and Tanya talk about pastors turning into life coaches and #nepobabies also called career advancement in #Hillsong as well as many other nuggets of info that Grace is famous here for dropping into conversation.

This is Part 3 and it's the final so come on over and chat with us!

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Their Own Set of Rules (feat. Grace) Part 2 Jan 30, 2023

The talk continues about philosophical crises and education or lack thereof in the hallowed Pentecostal halls. Grace has lots more to say and it's always such an interesting iceberg to chip away at.

So come talk with us!

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Their Own Set of Rules (feat Grace) Part 1 Jan 29, 2023

Grace went to #Hillsong for #Christmas and reports back on what that was like.

I play various clips of preaching that can be picked apart. We discuss all kinds of hypocrisies and questions left over while everything is left dangling in the air over this once hugely influential megachurch.

So grab your snacks and your beanbags and come gossip with us tonight!

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The Full Armour of Brian Jan 27, 2023

The surprise sale of the Houston family belongings on Instagram made for an even happier new year for people wanting to know where their tithes ended up.

Brian and Bobbie are selling up and moving out and moving on up or somewhere who knows?

Join Matthew Drapper and me, Tanya Levin for an irreverent and bemusing look at the items that the #Hillsong people have posted willingly online, from slippers to cushions to that jacket!

So come chat and laugh! we're all weeping on the inside. it's fine!

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Everyone Makes Mistakes Jan 22, 2023

London's #Hillsong seemed exciting to Catherine and an opportunity to further her walk with God through a church where she might use her talents.

There was only one problem - the rest of her life, including her work, got in the way.

Catherine attended Hillsong for years, despite her limited capacity to 'serve' but eventually, she left, and only relatively recently to this recording.

Find out why and how this Christian still has her faith even after #leavinghillsong! Come chat!

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The Court Case Week 1 Part 3 - Trials + Tribulations Jan 15, 2023

Hi there! Welcome back to Leaving Hillsong and The Court Case of Brian Charles Houston on one count of concealing a serious indictable offence, namely his father's child sexual abuse of a nearly 8 year old boy in 1970.

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk (insta and FB) and me, Tanya Levin, combed through our notes fresh out of court. And this is what we got.

It's such a fascinating case that it truly is worth keeping up and taking notes and week 2 is a bombshell and more.

So grab your snacks and your sofa and socks and tune in to THE COURT CASE! PART 3 of Week 1. (Dec 5-9 2022)

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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The Court Case Part 2 Week One Trials + Tribulations Dec 18, 2022

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and Tanya from LH carry on with whatever sense can be made of the story so far in Week 1. The DPP is laying out an extensive and intricate case and neither of us know shorthand so we're doing our best with our notes.

It's proving to be the highest theatre in the Downing Centre in Sydney for the trial of Brian Charles Houston, the former Global Senior Pastor of Hillsong for the singular count of concealing a serious indictable offence that being the assault of a boy in 1970 by his father, Frank Houston after 15 Sept 1999 until his father died in late 2004.

The witnesses were so carefully chosen that we're trying to use our abundance of caution if only so that I can say 'abundance of caution' cos it sounds good.

Come join as us in court!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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the Hillsong Starter Pack. Part 3 Trials + Tribulations II Dec 13, 2022

Grace speaks openly about looking back on her years at Hillsong as a young woman who had invested so much and now is recovering from the losses and reflecting on the gains.

She offers practical tips on coping with immediate triggers, running into old church associates in public and how to respond in the kindest way possible to YOURSELF.

Grace is awesome and so is this final part of this super cool chat.

It's such a helpful episode. Come chat!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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The Court Case Week 1 Part 1 - Trials + Tribulations III Dec 11, 2022

Jake Elliot from @the_framew0rk and Tanya Levin of @leaving.hillsong attended the trial of Brian Houston on a single count of Conceal a Serious Indictable Offence under Section 316 of the Crimes Act for the first 5 days at the Downing Centre in Sydney's CBD.

We recorded notes as best we could, Jake on his iPad and me by hand.

This is Part 1 of our note comparison of the events that unfolded over those 5 days.

This episode covers day 1 and some of day 2 . More of the opening statements will be recorded later.

As far as I know, this level of detail on this trial is available NOWHERE ELSE but Leaving Hillsong

The best is yet to come out, so grab a chair and come join us in court!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Trials + Tribulations II The Hillsong Starter Pack Part 2 Dec 10, 2022

Grace and Tanya shooting more breeze with:

- that prayer for B and B by Rob Ferguson

- facing the impact of the Hillsong volcano

- trauma at HS and the response..

Come chat!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Trials and Tribulations II -the Hillsong Starter Pack (feat Grace) Dec 04, 2022

Grace and Tanya talk court. Part 1

- BCH stuff

-Updates from last week's court chat from our legal assistant, Nic

- Queen Natalie's response to Hillsong's attempt at a defence

- and the prayers of the desperate

Come chat!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Trials and Tribulations - R.v Brian Charles Houston Nov 27, 2022

Why is Hillsong's Brian Houston going to court?

What is this case about? Why do Australian lawyers wear wigs and who the heck is 'R'? What's a Royal Commission?

Councillor Nathan Zamprogno joins me, Tanya Levin, to discuss the court case that will start in Sydney's local court on December 2, 2022,

We are not here to speculate or opine, merely to outline the processes that have taken place leading to this court appearance.

So join us, in the pursuit of the understanding of how criminal justice might work in the land Down Under in the Evangelical Trial of the Century.

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Forgiveness Is An Inside Job - Case Notes ep 3 Nov 20, 2022

How do you deal with the trauma a narcissist inflicts?

How do you recover from abuse that you were taught was love?

How do you stop blaming yourself for what you loved and believed in to be true?

Whether you were in Hillsong, a regular cult, a domestic violence relationship, or the subject of any trauma, especially where your boundaries were violated and your good faith exploited, THIS POD is for YOU.

Tiffany Wylder has a background in psychology and trauma recovery and she talks with us about how to face the unbearable betrayal of being exploited in the name of love... or god... or well, anything.

We were schooled by James on Narcissism and NPD from a medical model POV and now we're going to hear about the results of their damage... the trauma.. and the way out to finding yourself...

Tiffany is wise and strong and unable to be judgey... yet she's related to me!!

Please don't miss this. She changed my life by teaching me how to change it myself... and it's a gift that never stops giving.

Pull up a sofa and settle in for a fresh take on trauma, love, and forgiveness...

COME CHAT!!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Into the Fire Nov 13, 2022

10th grade Kat went to a play at a church that changed her life. Fearing the fires of hell that were threatened that night, she focussed on avoiding its clutches at the AoG church in Mildura, Victoria just on the banks of the river.

Kat sacrificed everything she could and threw the rest into the fire, but it wasn't enough for God or for the church, and eventually, for Kat.

Join us as we go to a small country town where once everything had been burned, Kat had to start again.

Come join this refreshing and difficult conversation tonight!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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An Affable Dag - Case Notes Episode 2 Nov 06, 2022

Narcissism. Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

What is it? How can you spot it... and what can you do about it?

In this fascinating discussion with James, our resident Mental Health Clinician with 30+ years experience in the field working in psychiatric fields and facilities, we discuss what the medical model is regarding NPD and narcissistic behaviour.

This is episode 2 of #casenotes which is #leavinghillsong 's #mentalhealth department.

There are #somany discussions to be had, so this is the start of the Narcissism #iceberg.. and it's a slippery slope from grandiosity to megachurch pastor!

So PLEASE join us for this special episode as we explore what the doctors think about narcissists and how to manage them...

SPOILER ALERT .. YOU CAN'T!!!!!

COME CHAT!!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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There’s No Honeymoon in Hillsongland Part 2 Oct 23, 2022

Grace and I pick up where Part 1 left off and move into the realm of salacious discussion and juicy commentary on the likes of Brian H. Carl Lentz and what we think on all that.

Grace is on fire so don't miss her ideas and thoughts as she brings back the freshest opinions from the inside out...

Come chat with us about married and unmarried life... in leadership and the front rows... in Part 2 of this special chat. Let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson :)

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There’s No Honeymoon at Hillsong Part 1 Oct 13, 2022

Grace is back ! Our semi reg cohost joins me for a late night chat about deconstruction, adjusting to life in the outside world... marriage.. family.. and what the hell has she been told?

Only out of Hillsong culture for 2 years, Grace shares her insights fresh from the hothouse and out in the sun!

We had a lot of fun with this and hope you will too. Come chat!\

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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Lindsay Duncan - A Bit Tricky to Deal With Oct 03, 2022

Lindsay Duncan is a faithful listener of the Leaving Hillsong pod and he has recently published his second book, Becoming Ben - From God to Gay.

He sat down with me to talk about writing this time, how he creates his fiction, and why oh why he put himself through it!

Lindsay is a psychologist with over 30 years' experience and he also shares his lived experience in the pentecostal movement including coming face to face with Frank Houston in the late 60's at a youth camp.

This is a warm and wise conversation with a warm and wise man.

These are some great pearls being dropped here so join us please and settle in for some old time charismatic history and what changed... come chat!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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A Bit of a Tyrant Part 2 Oct 02, 2022

Dave started up as a youth pastor, but as he tell us, "everything great they said would happen DID happen... after I left.."

But it wasn't an easy path and Dave had to find his way out of a psychiatric maze of medication and diagnoses... and on the path to his own happiness along with his wife.

In Part 2 we discuss Dave's regrets about the role he played in driving the Vision of Hillsong and the orders he followed and gave...

It's such an urgent and important conversation as so many people have these lingering worries about what was done to them but what they allowed, or saw, or perpetuated. In the name of God.

Pull up your beanbag and let's spill the beans on Leaving Hillsong when you cringe looking back!

Let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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A Bit of a Tyrant Sep 25, 2022

How much of the damage done at Hillsong is the fault of the every day person? Of the leaders? Of the people up top?

We start opening the dynamics of this power and how abusive systems perpetuate by talking with Dave who spent 13 years following his 9th grade conversion experience dedicated to making the world a better place for God with his youth group.

Looking back though, he worries about the influence he had as he rose up in the leadership ranks and we talk about how that happened and what to make of it.

Join us for this important discussion about a happy kid who wanted to hang out with his friends and use his energetic, fun loving personality to bring about change for humanity and wound up thinking it had all disappeared...

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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Tom Tilley -The Life I Didn’t Even Know I Would Get to Have (but Felt So Right) Sep 18, 2022

Tom Tilley has been known for over 15 years around Australian music circles and media, working as a journalist on Triple J's Hack program, the Australian ABC and on commercial networks.

And while his friends and colleagues knew he'd grown up in a religious home and church, they didn't really understand. So Tom released a book this year called Speaking in Tongues, and he joins me and Fiona who was also a CRC kid (see A Pentecostal Agenda) to talk about writing that book and what this coming out has been like!

It's a very thoughtful and revealing conversation about a young man finding his way and now, looking back at how he got there in the face of unusual barriers.

See the book giveaway on Facebook and Instagram too!

Come chat!

producer: Kimberly Robinson

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A One Star Review Part 2 Sep 11, 2022

How do you solve a problem like Mesiti? Who are these men who make the decisions over our worlds as religious devotees?

What do you do when a roving evangelist has a prophecy over your life? You do what Luc did and fulfil your family's dreams, and, God's.. or so he thought.

Join Luc and me while we discuss the different influences of Hillsong and the CLC movement and the huge effects it had on his life, then and now....

Luc has had a long and winding road and he's not apologetic for the stance he's taking, and one that's cost him so very much to make.

So pull up a couch and come chat with us about #leavinghillsong and what life was like for Luc after....

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A One-Star Review Sep 04, 2022

What would you do if you were given an ultimatum to choose between your family and your faith?

Luc gives Pentecostalism a one-star review and he's got a bunch of reasons why. That scenario is just one of them... Luc joins us to discuss growing up AoG and CLC and Hillsong.. and what he saw, felt, and heard along the way...

There are so many stories in this one that it's a 2 parter and a few content warnings that may be distressing... or just your childhood if you grew up fundie Christian.

So join us please! As we revisit the good old days of CLC and Hillsong's meteoric rise in one man's life...

Talk then!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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A World of Trouble Part 1 Aug 29, 2022

Where does the money at Hillsong go?

The oldest question in the book, Natalie Moses, a former employee, currently stood down with pay, has filed a complaint in the Federal Court that she saw a lot of where it went and it was corrupt, unethical, illegal and fraudulent.

On this episode, we speak with solicitor, former AoG/ACC executive officer, and PhD candidate in this field Alex Spencer about what this complaint means for Ms. Moses and for Hillsong's future.

You won't want to miss this one!

Part 2 will be Barry Bowen from Trinity Foundation taking it from a global level because Hillsong may well be in a world of trouble.

Come be part of this chat and bring your notebook cos wow!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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A World of Trouble Part 2 Aug 28, 2022

Barry Bowen from the Trinity Foundation in Texas (trinity.fi.org) joins me today as a TV evangelist investigator and researcher, reporter and journalist to discuss Natalie Moses's case from a US point of view.

Ms Moses's allegations include shuffling money on off to the US and Barry talks us through some of the the ramifications of what this means.

Then we have a little chat about What Would Carl Lentz Do next?

It's super great. Enjoy and just leave Hillsong as soon as you can if you haven't already. Please?

Come chat. This is just incredible!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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The Power to Say No Part 2 Aug 22, 2022

So Brian H formerly of Hillsong won and Ernie award held at Parliament House and Meg who nominated him and collected his misogyny prize continues the story of the night in question and what it's like when women use the power to say NO to things that men like Brian say.

It's chat time!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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The Power to Say No Aug 21, 2022

Last Thursday a friend in Melbourne contacted me to tell me she had succeeded in nominating Brian Houston of Hillsong for an Ernie award for misogyny and that he'd won!

I immediately asked if she would share her experiences and she did!

This episode is an update on the court matters that Hillsong is surrounded by and drowning in, including the matter of Pastor John McMartin, chief concealer of Frank Houston, and charged with indecent assault against a young woman.

And then, Meg tells her story. It's a harrowing tale of child sexual abuse and people who looked the other way, deliberately.

So this is another hard story, from so many perspectives of what abuse is and does and means in church.

Meg is like no one you ever met before and I ask her, WHERE WAS JESUS, when you were being abused by Grandad?

Her answers will change you. She's just so unique.

So, if you can, join us. Or share this episode. It's so special. part 2 to follow xo

Producer:Kimberly Robinson

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In the Face of Something Awful Aug 14, 2022

What does anyone do when they hear about or experience child sexual assault or any crime coming out of a church?

How do we stop the cover ups and ignorance?

Join Nick Jordan and me as we discuss the work he does chasing down offenders to bring about justice in the form of compensation and acknowledgement.

It's a tough but urgent chat, and it's mandatory for all LH listeners. As well as anyone else who needs to know. Which is all of us.

Come chat. This is the stuff that we need to know to change this world and this culture.

You'll never think the same or feel helpless in the face of this awful something.

Talk then!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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There’s Always Been a Lot to Say part 2 Jul 31, 2022

Grace and I continue our conversation about Hillsong's implosion and loss of revenue and members.

We discuss conferences and events and the addictive and fun nature of being involved and feeling special...

And then I force Grace's hand about her current or not attendance at Hillsong and where does she come from?

So stick around til the end and enjoy our dissection of a young person's experience at Hillsong... and how she left.

COME CHAT!!

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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There’s Always Been a Lot to Say Jul 24, 2022

GRACE IS BACK! and she's telling it like it is.

We sat down to kick off recording Grace's own history with Hillsong and thought we'd go over some updates. She'd had a few chats with some insiders and has taken the liberty of sharing news with us all.

We discuss the recent Hillsong conference, or what's left of it, and Hillsong College or what's left of it, and it's going to take until the end of episode 2 before I get Grace to tell us exactly nearly her Hillsong background.

So pull up a chair, or come hang over the back fence and let's talk!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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A Journey they Take for Themselves Jul 17, 2022

Counselling: should Christians seek counsel with unbelievers? Can Christian counsellors be professional?

Why not just keep it in house? In church?

Today we meet Petra a long time mental health social worker to find out how these two worlds meet and why it’s so important that they do

Come chat with us !

Producer: Kimberly Robinson

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A Glibness and Superficiality CASE NOTES EP 1 Jul 03, 2022

WELCOME TO CASE NOTES - LEAVING HILLSONG'S NEW SEGMENT ON MENTAL HEALTH.

TODAY we meet James, a mental health practitioner from Victoria, Australia who joins me to discuss the myriad he of mental health possibilities that are expressed in the posts and personalities and behaviours of former Hillsong leaders, Brian and Bobbie Houston.

While THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE OR A PSYCHOLOGICAL DIAGNOSIS, it's definitely TIME TO LOOK AT THIS from a practical and a medical POV.

So, pull up a chair and listen in to the first dive into mental health and Hillsong... !!!

Producer : Kimberly Robinson

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An Insignificant Gay Kid Part 2 (language free) Jun 28, 2022

Sarah continues her deconstruction story and wow there's a lot here... We discuss issues that women face in leaving churches, especially if they're gay women.

Describing herself as both a 'wee sensitive soul' and a 'diehard atheist' we managed to get through issues including

- rape in marriage

- custody battles

- lesbian parenting

-neurodiversity

- purity culture

-prophecies and facades

- consent

- going NO CONTACT

and can ExVangelicals trust therapy?

It was a doozy so don't miss it!

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An Insignificant Gay Kid Part 2 (uncut) Jun 26, 2022

Sarah continues her deconstruction story and wow there's a lot here... We discuss issues that women face in leaving churches, especially if they're gay women.

Describing herself as both a 'wee sensitive soul' and a 'diehard atheist' we managed to get through issues including

- rape in marriage

- custody battles

- lesbian parenting

-neurodiversity

- purity culture

-prophecies and facades

- consent

- going NO CONTACT

and can ExVangelicals trust therapy?

It was a doozy so don't miss it! (explicit language content)

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An Insignificant Gay Kid - Part 1 - language free Jun 22, 2022

Growing up in the Christian Outreach Centre movement, Sarah was immersed in church life. She grew up in a Christian home and married a Christian man. Everything was perfect.

Except Sarah is gay and she knew something had to change.

Sarah is from Glasgow, and it's another look from another culture at what happens when an insignificant gay kid is also 'a raging homosexual'.

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Derryn Hinch Interview 2007 with LH Host Tanya Levin Jun 21, 2022

When People in Glass Houses was first released in July 2007, Australian ABC show Enough Rope and its host Andrew Denton wanted exclusive rights to interview me.

That interview was intense for me having never done any media and starting on TV was a lot.

Derryn Hinch is an Australian icon for an 80's kid like me. He was a late night current affairs host who famously served a jail sentence for releasing a suppressed name of a pedophile before the courts.

I really wanted to get this opportunity and it was only in the second week of publicity that he showed interest.

15 years later, he and I are still saying the same things.

And I'm still grateful to chat to this Aussie hero!

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An Insignificant Gay Kid - Part 1 (language warning) Jun 19, 2022

Growing up in the Christian Outreach Centre movement, Sarah was immersed in church life. She grew up in a Christian home and married a Christian man. Everything was perfect.

Except Sarah is gay and she knew something had to change.

Sarah is from Glasgow, and it's another look from another culture at what happens when an insignificant gay kid is also 'a raging homosexual'.

R - rated language warning

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Ben and Brian’s Big Breakfast Part 2 Jun 13, 2022

When Ben Gresham had had enough of Hillsong's inaction on LGBT issues and Gay Conversion Therapy, he Tweeted the pastor, Brian Houston and was invited to breakfast.

Ben joins us in this chat to discuss that discussion and what it's like to come face to face with the leader himself.

We also talk coming out of the closet and out of Hillsong and living an authentic life... no matter who you are!

You don't want to miss part 2!

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Ben and Brian’s Big Breakfast Part 1 Jun 12, 2022

Ben Gresham-Petchell is an out and proud gay Christian. However, that wasn’t always the case. After coming out to his Hillsong youth group leader, Ben entered his first ‘ex-gay’ program at 16 years old believing that it was impossible to be gay and Christian. What followed was years of harm resulting in depression and even a suicide attempt.

Ben joins Matthew and me to discuss his Big Gay Rainbow of Light in the Darkness that was Hillsong and how he took its leader, Brian Houston to task and to coffee.

It's a wonderful story so join in and share with us!

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A Kind of Empathy Part 2 Jun 11, 2022

In Part 2 , we hear Matthew Drapper's story of gay conversion therapy and the damage and dangers it presented.

Drappa takes us through his path OUT of the closet and also the wannabe Hillsong church he was so heavily invested in.

It's a magical conversation and an incredible story of hardship and hope and authenticity. Please pull up a chair and join us!

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A Kind of Empathy Pt 1 Jun 05, 2022

In our first #PRIDE interview, Matt Drapper details a childhood growing up in a 'Duggaresque' family where homeschooling and homebirthing were the order of the day and the parents.

Being gay was a secret Matthew kept for a very, very long time, until he finally couldn't keep the truth inside for much longer..

Please join us for part 1 of A Kind of Empathy.. it's an emotional roller coaster and you're gonna love it..

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To Be a Houston May 29, 2022

When Hillsong's Interim Pastor Phil gave the Great Announcement of 19 March 2022 in front of 800 of the company's closest friends on Zoom, not everyone responded sympathetically to the delivery of the news that To Be or Not to Be a Houston supporter was to be the question.

Brian and Bobbie's daughter Laura, as well as their son, Pastor Ben, leapt to their defences with an emotive email to the board that Ben soon supported.

Somehow that email made its way to the Saturday Paper's Elle Hardy and to Grace and me.

Listeners of #leavinghillsong on the reg will enjoy getting to know Grace a bit more as she gets ready to discuss her own life in the Glass House.

We also rip up some child protection issues so be careful, and be kind to yourself, and to those around you.

Come chat with us! Send us your thoughts and listen in to

To Be a Houston !

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In Bed With the Devil May 15, 2022

Journalist, producer and multi Emmy award winner Rich McHugh joins us in the Leaving Hillsong conversation to discuss the similarities he sees between Hollywood and Hillsong.

Rich was the Supervising Producer at NBC's Investigative News Investigative Unit and interviewed scores of Harvey Weinstein accusers while working with Ronan Farrow.

The Pulitzer Prize winning work this story achieved in the New Yorker spun off into the #metoo movement which changed the world as we know it.

After dusting his hands of Weinstein, Rich McHugh heard there was another system of power... this time a church called Hillsong.

What he discovered was another Hollywood.

Please don't miss this important episode of #leavinghillsong!

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Tulips and the Monster they Created part 2 May 13, 2022

Alcohol is not Brian H's friend so why is drinking so rampant in Hillsong life?

And what has changed since the old days when not a drop should be drunk? Or a pastor?

Grace and I continue our discussions on what the is going on recently in HS and its culture and it gets a little heated!

Join us for more chat about #leavinghillsong

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Tulips and the Monster They Created May 12, 2022

Grace and I (both Social Work grads and former Hillsong people) wanted to catch up on the who's who and who's where of Hillsong. Cos we've both been a bit MIA.

Join us as we attempt to make sense of some leaders' decisions by reporting and trying to attach some social work theory or bandaids to what is going on.

Over 2 episodes we discuss life development stages, mental health, gender, tulips and so much more.

So grab a cup of coffee or tea or the sacramental wine and let's talk tulips!

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The Money Trail Pt 3 Apr 17, 2022

Leavers, Believers, and the rest of the world: WOW

did you know this stuff? I sure as heck didn't and you can hear the excitement in my voice. 11 year old me had so much fun in this snooping world of spying on the bad guys.

Barry Bowen from Trinity Foundation (trinityfi.org) walks us right through a Form 990 of TBN the cable channel and shows us all the revenue they've disclosed.

We go snooping through bizpedia and then discuss the red flags you should look for when assessing a church!

Each moment is as cool as the last so don't miss this stunning finale of

THE MONEY TRAIL

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The Money Trail Part 2 Apr 16, 2022

Well, goodness me! What a ride The Money Trail is becoming!

In Part 2, Barry Bowen from the Trinity Foundation covers issues including:

- fraud

- board structures

- property searches and data bases for church ownership

- income streams

- music, music, music

- copyrighting your sermon and much more

Do not miss

Part 2 of

THE MONEY TRAIL !

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The Money Trail Apr 15, 2022

Oh baby, baby, it's a wild world. It's hard to get by just upon a smile. But it helps!

WELCOME TO THE SPECIAL EDITION OF LEAVING HILLSONG THE TELEVANGELIST HUNTING EDITION!

BARRY BOWEN FROM THE TRINITY FOUNDATION in Texas talks you through the way corporate structures, sneaky shifty boards, and limited liability helps evangelists flourish and propagate with little interruption.

In this episode we cover:

- unexplained deaths around TV evangelists

- revenue disclosure or lack thereof

- money laundering, does Hillsong have off shore bank accounts?

- where Daddy Lentz fits in to all of this.. with TBN..

It's fascinating stuff, so pull up your sofa and listen in.. don't miss:

THE MONEY TRAIL

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Family Ties Apr 10, 2022

One Roberta Houston, AKA Bobbie or Mother Dove (official cult name) is the next character #leavinghillsong. And it looks like she did not go peacefully in the night.

Brian had a tantrum online about it, just about 8 o'clink, and then the Board, whoever the heck they even are, wrote a thinly veiled swipe back and Grace and I couldn't resist.

So set your hair in curlers, and get ready to hang over the back fence with us, as we say bye bye Bobbie and wonder where their successors, sons, and Rolexes will end up.

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Board Games Apr 03, 2022

There's been a lot of changes behind the Board Room doors at Hillsong.

Our Chief Source, Saucey/BBQ Sauce/theSauce walks us through what the moves the board have made, who's who in this zoo and who's zooming who?

Where are the elders, who's behind the changes and what does it all mean?

Tonight we're in the board room.

Hillsong has been playing Monopoly for way too long.

Who's the little dog? and the guy with the hat?

It looks like someone's missing.. so pull up an executive chair as the Sauce explains who's been playing Board Games and why...

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My Way or the Norway - Sorry Mar 30, 2022

In this bonus episode, Grace and I have a look at a detailed statement from a former Hillsong pastor in Norway and a letter from Brian@hillsong.com that says sorry, almost,..

Come chat!!

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The Great Resignation Mar 27, 2022

The week ending 27 March 2022 concluded with the 3rd resignation of a pastor. The 7 days prior had seen a board member, and at least 2 pastors resign.. most notably the Big Eagle himself as he used to be affectionately known, Brian Houston ...

Join 'Grace' a former member of ten years of Hillsong who is working on a Masters in Social work and me to look at the statements from Hillsong and what they might have meant .. then and now..

This one's worth cake... and we'll talk about that.

Talk then!!

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Powerful Men and the Greasy Pole Mar 20, 2022

On March 10 2022 I was arrested after attending a court mention of Brian Houston's

By the following week everything at Hillsong had changed.

Join us as we discuss what Brian did next or last or didn't do, my 2nd arrest connected with Hillsong, and what might happen next or not. We go over the Global Board's letter of response.

And we have a lot of questions. Special guest:

Rev Michael Bones muso, human rights activist and law degree holder last from the Baby or the Bathwater!

Come chat!

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David’s Princess - a reading from People in Glass Houses Mar 20, 2022

Recorded on 20 March 2022 following the initial public revelations about Brian Houston's misconduct, I decided to do a reading from my book, People in Glass Houses.

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Who’s The Boss? Feb 27, 2022

Is Brian Houston #leavinghillsong?

What does it mean that he 'stepped aside' or was it 'down'?

Now what?

Join me and my very clever colleague and source for this fantastic discussion about how Brian C Houston came to be in the Assemblies of God movement, why he's left, and what his life will be like after...

We also discus what the organisation looks like and well, who's the boss?

DON'T MISS THIS EXCITING CLOSE UP RETURN TO LEAVING HILLSONG!

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Welcome Home Part 3 plus Holiday Tea Dec 26, 2021

Happy Holidays!

In this gift for you, we discuss what happens when, after leaving Hillsong, Noemi asks some queer questions and asks for straight answers from the Men Who Said They Knew About God.

Then we talk about why and how Carl Lentz was fired and the impact that had on his immediate followers...

We also talk about resilience and what got Noemi through.

Don't miss this episode for controversy and healing tips! Something for everyone!

Oh and stay safe ❤️❤️

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Welcome Home Part 2 Dec 19, 2021

Hillsong says 'Everybody's Welcome'. But for years the question has dragged on in celeb and mainstream media:

Is everybody welcome in the same way?

How are members of the LGBT community treated? The pink dollars are welcome but what about the humans behind them?

Noemi Uribe shares her experiences of asking these questions to her pastors and leaders in Boston as part of the East Coast 'campus' of Hillsong.

Due to the deliberately vague avoidance, she received very clear answers and the impact of this treatment was nearly catastrophic.

This very tender episode of Leaving Hillsong discusses sexuality, gender, and discrimination in the church context and how that leads to severe physical and mental health results for some. Noemi so rightly says, "Bad theology kills". So please take care when listening.

She shares how she learned, gained support, and escaped the prison of this thinking and how she gained her freedom.

Make sure you join us for this recent and startling set of events so generously shared by this brave young woman of colour as we talk about #leavinghillsong as a matter of saving lives.

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Welcome Home Dec 05, 2021

Noemi had grown up as a pastor's kid in Mexico and was involved in church planting with her family. After returning to the US for her education continued her Pentecostal faith.She was eventually invited to a Hillsong Church plant, later, not knowing it would become infamous not too long after.In Part 1, Noemi shares a fascinating history of life as a Pentecostal in Mexico and the transition into 'white church', and away from her very cultural roots including the Brown Virgin her grandmother revered.Don't miss this compelling introduction to Noemi's experience of church, faith, and joining Hillsong this week.. Talk then!

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The Bathwater or the Baby? Nov 28, 2021

"Reverend" Bones is an indie musician, songwriter and singer based in Canberra. He's a passionate climate change activist and a law graduate, working long hours when he's not playing with the Exvangelicals.

It's a very different life for this 30-something than ten years ago when he first ventured out of his hometown, into the city, and the study of philosophy and law at university.

Michael, as his mother calls him, speaks strongly from his own experience and professional insights about healing, changing, evolving, and adapting to a world and a world view without Christianity or church or a hope of heaven, even when that world of Pentecostal signs and wonders has caused you endless trauma that played out with very real impacts on a young man's life.

Don't miss the Baby or the Bathwater. After all, what IS more important?!!

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A Contestant in Their Game Nov 14, 2021

Yolandi Bosch is one of the handful of people who have ever spoken out in print against Hillsong's practices and ethics.

She has featured in the New York Post, Business Insider, Vanity Fair, and is rumoured to be have been interviewed for an upcoming Hollywood special.

But at what cost? Did Hillsong sue? Will they sue?

Is speaking up and 'doing the right thing' really worth it in the real world?

Join us for this very important discussion about protecting other people.

Closing track by Gospel Train

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A Contestant in Their Game Nov 07, 2021

Given that 90% of Hillsong College students in Australia are international, it's kinda important to know how those students are treated and what the actual education is like.

Yolandi Bosch found out when after saving up, she applied to Hillsong College to further her skills and her relationship with God.

What she found was she had paid to be part of an entertainment machine, where students were graded according to their marketability, and if they had none, they paid to be rejected.

Far from home, seriously ill at one stage and forced to volunteer with a fever, Yolandi describes the place that had seemed so appealing and so godly.

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A Minor Thing Oct 31, 2021

Lisa found spiritual homes in the AoG/Hillsong network for 14 years, for her, her husband, and family of 5... or so she thought.And while she had questions over the years, things that didn't seem right, it wasn't until a major issue during a major rebranding was treated like a minor thing that Lisa and her family fled.And then experienced the results of their hard work.Join Lisa and me for a chat about a mother's realisations from being in and finally leaving Hillsong!

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My Voice Does Matter Oct 10, 2021

Megan was 17 when she moved to the big city and started attending a big church that soon became Life in name and for her.But after guaranteeing her medical welfare during a crisis to staff, everything changed when Megan got back to church and college.And then there's the old Hillsong link.Join us for a chat about Life, the Hillsong Universe and everything

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An Economy of Souls - Part 2 Sep 26, 2021

Shaun Nemorin is a therapist, mental health researcher and a leader in the torture and trauma field. He holds a Bachelor of Psychology and a Masters of Social Work and has 20 years’ experience working with people with a refugee experience, 10 of those spent in humanitarian contexts and emergencies with the United Nations.But as a younger man he witnessed and experienced first hand abusive hazing practices at the institution he called his spiritual home.Some time ago, Shaun decided to confront those responsible and he discusses all of this tonight.We urge listeners to prepare for an intense and important conversation, but one that might bring up issues that people have not recognised or remembered as harm. So please, take your time with this episode, and most of all, take care of yourself first.

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An Economy of Souls - Part 1 Sep 19, 2021

Shaun Nemorin is a narrative therapist, a former UNHCR staffer, with a Masters in Social Work, specialising in trauma.

But before that, he was a boy looking for community in connection in a place he now calls The Institution.

Join us for this conversation and settle in for an overdose of insight, expertise, and lived experience.

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A Pentecostal Agenda Part 2 Sep 12, 2021

In Part 2, Fiona leaves the revival centre movement and goes out into the big, not so bad world.

This episode looks briefly at the domestic violence model and leaving a pentecostal church, so please be prepared.

And Fiona also walks us through how she took social action and was successful! keeping kids in schools safer from the Pentecostal Agenda

It's a great listen, so please do join us!

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A Pentecostal Agenda Sep 05, 2021

This week we hear from Fiona about a church not unlike Hillsong, but not Hillsong.

Fiona grew up in Melbourne in several pentecostal churches including the Christian Revival Centres.

The experiences had a profound impact on her life as she rose through the ranks to pastor and leader and she discusses those times and what it was like to come out as gay in a place with a pentecostal agenda.

Please join us!

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A Bald-Faced Lie Part 2 (final) Nathan Zamprogno Aug 29, 2021

When disgraced pastor Frank Houston left the Hillsong off shoot church he'd been sent to, Nathan Zamprogno did soon after, too.

But not before he'd seen the harsh reality of where church and state collided. Nathan shares his story of leaving Hillsong and how a political party that was supposed to have nothing to do with the church, made its influence very clear.

Join us for Part 2 of a Bald - faced Lie, There were some tech difficulties with a previous version so if you missed the details:

Nathan has been a social commentator on the intersections of faith and politics for many years.

You can follow him on line on Facebook and his website councillorzamprogno.info Google his name, and his surname is spelled Z-A-M-P-R-O-G-N-O, and you'll be sure to find it, or look in the show notes on the Leaving Hillsong website or your favourite podcast player. If events depicted in this episode are distressing, there is help available. Nathan has been involved with the Cult Information and Family Support network for 12 years, and they're at CIFS.org.au

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A Bald-faced Lie Aug 22, 2021

Nathan Zamprogno was a devoted member of a church that was a Hillsong offshoot, about half an hour's drive away.

He discusses the impact those years of devotion had on him before he ended up #leavinghillsong.

But before he had, he was witness to a visiting pastor who appeared to stay. His name was Frank Houston, and it seemed strange he should be in such a small town so far away from the public eye. And the reasons were more than sinister.

Please join us as Nathan and I discuss all things youth and young adult church on this episode of Leaving Hillsong!

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My Favourite Colour - Emily's Story Part 2 (final) Aug 15, 2021

Emily discusses the 'trail of destruction' that Bobbie Houston left behind and what the global pastor's words have meant to her.She tells us about the tools she found to rescue herself from Religious Trauma Syndrome and how she found a peaceful life that she loves living.So please join us to find out if Emily got a favourite colour and how she fought her way back after #leavinghillsong

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My Favourite Colour - Emily's Story Aug 08, 2021

Emily grew up in a Christian home singing the songs of Hillsong in church. When she got the chance to actually be in the band after moving to London, she jumped at it.

Over time, Emily realised things were changing. She talks to us about those changes, including the effects of Religious Trauma Syndrome in this episode.

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A Bit of a Weirdo - Part 2 Jo's Story Aug 01, 2021

Jo tells us her happy ending with Ben and the baby/s 🙂 and explains what life was like working every day for a church of 800 people in a volunteer musician role.

A very informative episode about a woman's experience in the music world as a worship leader for a church plant of Hillsong's

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A Bit of a Weirdo - Jo's Story Jul 28, 2021

Jo felt like an outsider at school and gladly welcomed her friend's invitation to go to a youth group at a local church. The church happened to be one of the satellite offshoots 'planted' by Pastor Frank Houston of Hillsong (nee Sydney Christian Life Centre) and pastored by none other than Carl Lentz's future father-in-law, and old pal of Brian Houston's, Kevin Brett. Soon, Jo met Ben and fell in love. Both invested in a pastor's vision, they were to face some impossible decisions, decisions that were in conflict with the that vision. Join Jo and me as we discuss her experiences finding and then #leavinghillsongModerate language warning. It's not filled with swears but they're there.

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An Irresistible Drug: David's Story Part 3 (final) Jul 25, 2021

David discusses the effects of leaving Hillsong and what life's been like since as well as the influences Frank Houston had on the city, the nation, and his son, Brian.We hear more about the similarities David sees, the ways he survived and the fears he holds for those involved with Hillsong now.Join us for the inspiring and hope-filled conclusion, while we also make history. Hillsong is still claiming that Brian Houston started Hillsong. We are so grateful to David for his resolute recounting of what happened behind this whitewash. Make sure you listen to parts 1 and 2 to find out.It's enough of the Hillsong only version of history.Now, we're hearing the rest!

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An Irresistible Drug: David's Story Part 2 Jul 21, 2021

David tells us more 80's history of Hillsong, its founder Frank Houston's expansion of an empire and Frank's son, a young preacher, called Brian who had recently moved from New Zealand with his wife, Bobbie. Part 2 ofAn Irresistible Drug: David's Story onLeaving Hillsong

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An Irresistible Drug - David's Story Part 1 Jul 18, 2021

David was a working musician in Sydney's 80's scene when he happened upon a friendly family church with a vibrant community called Sydney Christian Life Centre - run by Pastor Frank Houston and his son, Brian, in the background.What he didn't know, what nobody apart from a select few would know, for another 20 years was that Frank was a prolific child rapist. All he saw was a father figure.Join us as David and I talk in Part 1 of David's story. #leavinghillsong

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