Law of Code

Latest Episodes:

#20 - Ari Redbord & Drew Morris: TRM Labs, VASPs, FATF and government vs private practice. Dec 27, 2021

Show notes

TRM Labs delivers cryptocurrency fraud detection and anti-money laundering (AML) solutions to financial institutions and governments worldwide. Ari Redbord (@ARedbord) is Head of Legal & Government Affairs at TRM. Prior to joining TRM, Ari served at the United States Department of the Treasury as a Senior Advisor to the Deputy Secretary and the Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI). In this capacity, Ari worked with teams from the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), and other Treasury and interagency components on issues related to cryptocurrency, sanctions, the Bank Secrecy Act, and anti-money laundering strategies. Drew Morris (@Drew_Morris) is Legal Counsel at TRM. Prior to TRM, Drew was General Counsel at WorkJam and an Associate at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati LLP. Show highlights: - Ari's introduction to crypto through experience with North Korea - Why TRM Labs is an important part of the crypto ecosystem - TRM Talks - Comparing the startup environment with work as a prosecutor - What they both learned in previous roles - FATF’s final version of its Updated Guidance for a Risk-Based Approach for Virtual Assets and Virtual Asset Providers - VASP - What makes a top calibre lawyer - How to network in the legal profession & much more.

#19 - Becoming a Crypto Lawyer: How to capitalize on your crypto-law interest, with Jake Chervinsky, Rebecca Rettig and Sarah Shtylman Dec 20, 2021

Show notes

Jake Chervinsky (@jchervinsky) is involved in all aspects of the crypto ecosystem & has a strong understanding of the regulatory space surrounding crypto. Jake is Head of Policy at the Blockchain Association and Advisor for the Variant Fund, and former General Counsel for Compound Labs.

Rebecca Rettig (@RebeccaRettig1) is the General Counsel of the Aave Companies, a group of software development companies in Europe that build open source, blockchain-based software. Rebecca began her legal career at Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP in New York, litigating complex commercial disputes; prior to joining the Aave Companies, Rebecca was a partner at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP in the financial services group, representing blockchain and crypto clients.

Sarah (Hody) Shtylman (@SHodyEsq) is a Partner at Perkins Coie, where she advises innovators in the fintech and blockchain industries, and her clients range from entrepreneurs and startups to big tech and regulated financial institutions. Sarah’s background includes serving as in-house regulatory counsel at Coinbase (2nd lawyer hired), Levine & Associates (a litigation boutique), and Hody Esq., as a Sole Proprietor.

This episode answers the question: What should I do if I want to become a crypto lawyer? While focused on crypto, the principles can be applied to any legal area. This was such a fun episode to record, as each guest offers incredible insights.

Show highlights:

- How Rebecca built a practice in crypto [3:30]

- What helped Rebecca establish a crypto arbitration practice [7:45]

- Sarah’s introduction to crypto [9:00]

- Being the second lawyer at Coinbase [14:00]

- Jake’s crypto law journey [16:00]

- What law students should get on their resume to get roles in crypto [21:00]

- How to determine which area of law to tie crypto into [34:00]

- Finding an area of law in which to specialize [37:00]

- Dealing with the pressure to specialize [41:00]

“Recognizing when you hit diminishing returns in your job, and when it’s time to move on” - Jake

- Imposter syndrome in the legal industry [44:00]

- Do crypto lawyers need to learn to code? [49:00]

- One important piece of advice for professionals beginning their careers [63:00]

“Come join the revolution with us” - Rebecca

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast, please share and review. You can follow me, Jacob Robinson, on Twitter @jacobrobinsonjd. For the latest updates from Law of Code - subscribe to our newsletter.

#18 - Gabriel Shapiro & Sarah Brennan: Governance structures, LeXPunk, updating the VC model and DAOs. Dec 13, 2021

Show notes

Gabe and Sarah are experts on all things crypto and some of my brightest minds in the space. If you’re at all interested in Web3, you must follow both.

Gabriel Shapiro (@lex_node) is General Counsel at Delphi Labs. Gabe was previously a Partner at Belcher, Smolen & Van Loo LLP, where he was a corporate attorney for builders of DeFi, DAOs, blockchain & other decentralization technologies.

Sarah (Lord) Brennan (@SH_Brennan) is a corporate and securities attorney with over a decade of experience and a strong interest in technology who is passionate about helping companies grow and scale. Sarah is General Counsel at Delphi Ventures. Prior to joining Delphi, Sarah was Head of Harter Secrest & Emery LLP's Digital Assets and Disruptive Tech Practice and is a former Partner at Lippes Mathias LLP.

Show highlights

- Problems Gabe and Sarah see with the regulatory approach to crypto and viable paths forward

- Competing philosophies around tokens – essentialism vs functionalism

- What are tokens, legally? What should they be

- What is decentralization legally, why is it important and how could this change in the future?

- Governance structures, what does good governance mean, what are the common theories and opportunities, best practices

- LeXPunk – 2-min intro to LexPunk + Builder Defense DAO, plans, visions, values

- Updating the Venture Model for DeFi: problems & solutions

- What aspect of crypto-law are Gabe and Sarah most interested in seeing develop and why

& much more

#17 - Jason Gottlieb: Lawyers & DAOs, MoCo crypto-litigation tracker, Indexed Juris, NFTs & more. Nov 29, 2021

Show notes

Jason Gottlieb (@ohaiom) is a Partner in Morrison Cohen LLP’s Business Litigation Department, and Chair of the White Collar and Regulatory Enforcement practice group. Jason is the principal author of the MoCo Cryptocurrency Litigation Tracker and was named to the National Law Journal‘s inaugural list of Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and Fintech Trailblazers. Jason regularly advises U.S. and foreign companies on blockchain and cryptocurrency law relating to litigation and regulatory risk issues and has been widely published and quoted in the media for his cryptocurrency and blockchain expertise.

Show highlights

- Jason's introduction to crypto

- Working at a Japanese Internet Service Provider in Tokyo

- Building expertise in crypto-law

- Kleiman v. Wright

- Cryptocurrency litigation tracker

- Indexed Finance Hack: ~$16m of tokens were stolen

- Working with DAOs (50 min-mark)

- NFTs

& much more.

#16 - Sina Kian, VP of Strategy at Aleo: A16Z backed startup, Zero-Knowledge Proofs, and why "find your passion" is the wrong advice. Nov 22, 2021

Show notes

Sina Kian (@SinaKian1) is Vice President of Strategy at Aleo, a company that is building a decentralized blockchain with significantly enhanced data security and privacy capabilities. He is also an Adjunct Professor at NYU Law School, and a Term Member at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Sina received his BA in History at the University of Virginia, and his JD from Stanford Law School. After law school, Sina clerked for Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., on the Supreme Court. Sina practiced law at WilmerHale, later transitioning to an investing role, working as a Vice President at Blackstone, and then to Kennedy Lewis.

Show highlights:

- His current role at Aleo (aleo.org)

- What is Aleo? What problem does this a16z backed startup solve?

- Clerking for Justice Roberts on the Supreme Court

- Why transition out of law?

- Zero-Knowledge Proofs

- Targeting Developers

- Finding the perfect mentor

& much more. Sina is brilliant and this interview is packed with interesting takeaways.

#15 - Drew Hinkes: Rug pulls, preventing the loss of private keys, United States v. Van Buren, and "not your legal title, not your coins" Nov 15, 2021

Show notes

Nominated as one of Coindesk’s Most Influential People in Blockchain in 2017, Andrew “Drew” Hinkes (@propelforward) is a Partner with K&L Gates, working as part of its National Blockchain and Digital Currency practice. Drew was appointed as an Adjunct Professor by the NYU Stern Business School and the NYU School of Law, where he co-teaches “Digital Currency, Blockchains, and the Future of the Financial Services Industry.” Drew is also the co-founder and General Counsel of Athena Blockchain, a professional services firm focused on tokenized investment products.

Show highlights:

Drew's blockchain story
His legal practice
Cryptolaw at NYU Stern
His 2019 paper: Throw away the key, or the key holder? Coercive contempt for lost or forgotten cryptocurrency private keys, or obstinate holders.
How courts best prevent the "loss" of private keys
5th amendment response to private key requests
Liens against identifiable cryptoassets
Rug pulls
United States v. Van Buren
Time management
Legal title and digital assets

Drew was a fantastic guest and the episode is a great peek into the mind of one of the best crypto lawyers.

Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!

#14 - Hailey Lennon: Bitcoin stories, CryptoConnect, public speaking and building a legal practice in Crypto Nov 08, 2021

Show notes

Hailey Lennon (@HaileyLennonBTC) is one of the most well-known lawyers in crypto law. Hailey is a shareholder in Anderson Kill’s Technology, Media and Distributed Systems Group. She is based in California and affiliated with Anderson Kill’s Los Angeles office. Hailey previously spent time as regulatory counsel for various companies in the crypto space, including Coinbase, bitFlyer, and Silvergate Bank. She frequently speaks at major conferences about the laws surrounding cryptocurrencies.

Show highlights:

- When Hailey was introduced to Bitcoin

- Her journey from Law School to Crypto Lawyer

- Playing offense in your career

- Scaling BSA/AML Programs

- Stablecoins & the Biden Administration

- CryptoConnect

- NFTs

- How to improve your public speaking ability

You can learn more about Hailey here and follow her on Twitter.

Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!

#13 - Evan Thomas: WealthSimple Crypto, going "all-in" on crypto, working with regulators & becoming a great lawyer. Nov 01, 2021

Show notes

Evan Thomas (@evanmthomas) is Head of Legal at WealthSimple Crypto, a platform launched by WealthSimple as the first regulated crypto exchange in Canada. Prior to joining Wealthsimple, Evan spent nearly 15 years as a litigator with Osler Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, where he focused on cases involving technology and data. Before his legal career, Evan worked as a software developer and systems/network administrator.

Show highlights:

- Evan's genesis block

- Why Evan left Big Law for crypto

- Advice for lawyers considering going "all-in" in crypto

- How regulators can work with crypto exchanges to balance innovation with consumer protection

- Coinbase Lend

- NFTs

- Time management as a lawyer

- What makes a great lawyer

You can find Evan on Twitter @evanmthomas.

Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!

#12 - Collins Belton (Part 2): NFTs, rug pulls, fiduciary duty, Twitter habits and routines & what's next for Collins. Oct 25, 2021

Show notes

Collins Belton (@collins_belton) is one of the brightest minds in crypto law. Collins is the founder and Managing Partner of Brookwood P.C., a boutique transactional practice focused on serving founders, startups and emerging technology companies working on frontier technology, particularly in the digital asset space.

Show highlights:

- NFTs: Dutch auctions vs Vickrey auctions

- Collins Coin?

- Equity in exchange for legal advice

- Fiduciary responsibility in NFTs

- Gaining crypto experience as a young lawyer

- What's next for Collins?

- What makes a great lawyer

- Anime, cooking, and other hobbies.

Collins was so great that we’ve turned the interview into two parts. You can listen to the first part here.

Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!

#11 - Collins Belton (Part 1): Gary Gensler, Coinbase Lend, the Howey Test & the biggest legal problems facing crypto. Oct 18, 2021

Show notes

Show highlights:

- When Collins was introduced to blockchain technology

- Why Collins founded Brookwood PC

- Coinbase Lend

- The Howey Test & investment contracts

- Gary Gensler reframing the DeFi narrative

- What Collins would do as head of the SEC

- The biggest legal problems in crypto today

Collins was so great that we’ve turned the interview into two parts. Check out our next episode to hear how Collins stays on top of all things crypto, his favorite NFTs, and what's next for Collins after he "retired" from private practice.

Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!

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