Journal of Clinical Oncology (JCO) Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Multi-Cancer Early Detection Testing for High-Risk Patients Aug 08, 2024

Show notes

Host Dr. Davide Soldato interviews Dr. Sana Raoof to discuss the JCO article Turning the Knobs on Screening Liquid Biopsies for High-Risk Populations: Potential for Dialing Down Invasive Procedures. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Davide Soldato: Hello, and welcome to JCO After Hours, the podcast where we sit down with others from some of the latest articles published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I am your host, Dr. Davide Soldato, Medical Oncologist at Ospedale San Martino in Genoa, Italy. Today, we are joined by JCO author Dr. Sana Raoof, Physician at Memorial Sloan Kettering, to talk about her article, "Turning the Knobs on Screening Liquid Biopsies for High-Risk Populations: Potential for Dialing Down Invasive Procedures." Thank you for joining us today, Dr. Raoof. Dr. Sana Raoof: Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here. Dr. Davide Soldato: So, Dr. Raoof, I just wanted to start a little bit about the theme of your article, which is really centered around multi-cancer early detection tests. And this comes from the results of several studies that showed their reliability and efficacy in identifying cancer in the average risk population. But I just wanted to ask you if you could give us and our readers a brief overview of how these tests work and how they were designed for this specific population. Dr. Sana Raoof: Of course. Well, there's an interesting story. The origin of multi-cancer early detection tests actually begins with insights that come from the field of obstetrics and gynecology. So about six or seven years ago, in the peripheral blood of pregnant women, we discovered that you can actually find fetal DNA floating around. And that was an early discovery of cell free DNA coming from the baby into the mother's bloodstream. But in some of those young, otherwise healthy women, we also discovered that there's another clonal signal, unfortunately not coming from the fetus, but coming from an undiagnosed tumor. And that led to the entire field of circulating tumor DNA and all of its applications. Of course, scientists in the last six or seven years have harnessed the fact that DNA and the methylation patterns on the circulating tumor DNA, as well as other analytes like glycosaminoglycans, proteins, and other analytes, are secreted by tumors into the peripheral blood in order to try and screen for tumors, hopefully at early stages, when there are still curative, definitive interventions that are available. There's several different tests now that are providing the ability to detect cancers at many stages, including early stages. They're in different phases of preclinical to clinical development, and one is even commercialized and available by prescription in the United States. Dr. Davide Soldato: Okay. So I think that in most of these tests, they really look at the tumor DNA, so they identify mutations or, for example, methylation patterns. But do we also have some tests that integrate some other type of biomarkers that we can identify in the blood? Like, are they integrated all with the others, or are we just relying on circulating tumor DNA? Dr. Sana Raoof: It's a great question. There's a lot of really fascinating biology that different companies predominantly are using in order to find signs of early cancer. One of the analytes that I find really interesting, other than looking for small variants in circulating tumor DNA and looking at methylation patterns, as you mentioned, is looking at fragment length. So, for example, the company DELFI looks at the different patterns of the length of DNA fragments that are floating around in the peripheral blood. And not only is fragment length tissue specific, so in theory, a fragmentomics based multi-cancer early detection test could tell us what is the tissue that this aberrant signal is coming from, but they can also tell you if there's likely a cancer present, because there's a difference in fragment length patterns in cancer versus non cancer. There are also other analytes. I mentioned glycosaminoglycan. There's another company that doesn't yet have prospective data, to my knowledge, that is making a test that looks at these analytes instead. There are other companies, again, without prospective data yet, that are looking at circulating tumor cells. And I'm sure that in the next few years, we're going to start getting prospective data from all of these players and also hear about other analytes that scientists have found can predict cancer from non cancer and maybe even protect tissue of origin based on artificial intelligence. Dr. Davide Soldato: So you mentioned artificial intelligence. So, basically what you're suggesting, but correct me if I'm wrong, is that when we use this test, we are actually measuring something in the bloodstream, but at the same time, we are actually applying some type of artificial intelligence to actually interpret these results and then give us the definitive results, or what we would call like a positive and a negative of the tests, is that right? Dr. Sana Raoof: Yeah, absolutely. And it's an important distinction that you're making, we are measuring something in the blood, but we're not just measuring it. We're using machine learning algorithms that have been trained on thousands and thousands of patients with cancer and thousands and thousands of patients without cancer, and have measured various analytes and analyzed the patterns, for example, of DNA sequence, or bisulfite sequencing of methylation patterns of patients with and without cancer, and have been trained to look for the differences between them. And so the analyte that we're looking for is not a specific mutation per se, but is a pattern that looks like patterns that you typically find more so in cancer patients. There's many different companies, they are trained on different types of cancer. So some companies, like GRAIL, have a test that looks for a very expanded list of over 50 cancer types. Other tests have a narrower focus and were trained and validated on a smaller list of cancer types. So there's just a great diversity in this space. These tests are trained to look for different types of cancer. They're trained and validated on different populations of interest. So, for example, some of the populations that these tests were trained on are predominantly white, and that will have impacts, potentially on how these tests perform in non-white populations. And that's a really interesting area of future research. These tests may or may not have included cancer survivors in their populations, and that could ultimately impact how these tests perform in those populations. So there's just so much to learn, so much data that's going to be coming out in the next few years from all of these different key players in the multi-cancer early detection space. But one thing that I'm sure of is between all of the different analytes, all of the different training and validation studies, and all of the different prospective studies, we're going to learn a tremendous amount about the potential clinical utility of using multi-cancer early detection tests to complement the few standard of care surveillance cancer screening tests that we have recommended today. Dr. Davide Soldato: So just taking a step back and going back to the fact that we actually use machine learning algorithms to identify a pattern that can give us an idea of whether cancer is present or not, I believe that there is also some room for calibration of these types of tests. And I think that this is one of the key arguments that you make in your paper where you say that we can actually personalize a little bit more these types of tests to understand and then to decide what we are looking for. Is that correct and can you expand a little bit on that? Dr.Sana Raoof: Yeah, absolutely. This is the central concept of the paper that we're discussing. Because these tests are machine learning based, as I said, they're trained to say cancer versus not cancer, and some of them are further trained to say, coming from this organ or coming from that organ. But what does it mean to say cancer or not cancer? There are specific thresholds that are defined to say, above this threshold of signal detection, we're going to say this is a positive cancer signal detected, and below it we're going to say negative. And so right now, these tests are kind of designed to have this binary output, and the concept that I wanted to put forth in the paper is it doesn't necessarily have to be binary, and the thresholds don't have to be static. So, for example, you can imagine that in an average risk population where the pretest probability of cancer in your lifetime for Americans, it's pretty high, roughly 40% for lifetime. But at any given moment in time when you're getting a test, it's lower. For example, in Americans, 50 to 80, the chance of having cancer at any given moment is just under 3%. So you don't necessarily want a test that is very nonspecific, you don't necessarily want to tell a lot of perfectly healthy people that are asymptomatic screening populations that they have cancer if they don't. And so these tests were designed to have very high specificity, predominantly across the board, across the different companies making them at the cost of, in some cases, having lower or moderate sensitivity in early stages. And it's important to keep in the back of your mind that we cannot ever expect the types of early stage sensitivities from multi-cancer early detection tests that we're used to thinking about for single cancer screens that are just optimized for one single organ. They work in a completely different way. So I don't expect a future where the sensitivity of a mammogram, which is only for breast cancer, is going to be analogous to the sensitivity of a blood-based test that's looking for all cancers in your entire body. I don't think it's fair to expect that. But I do think it's possible to imagine a future where we do change the thresholding of these tests that were trained and validated in average risk screening populations, and say, "Let's turn the knob on the dial and let's take the sensitivity a little bit higher, even if it means the specificity drops from 99%, for example, which is the very high number of the gallery test, down to 98%, down to 97%. Let's see how this affects the positive predictive value and the negative predictive value of the test." And how having a higher negative predictive value by having a higher sensitivity may or may not make it more clinically useful for higher risk populations that have higher pretest probabilities, in which case we are kind of more interested in being sure that we're ruling out cancer. Another concept that I talk about in the paper, aside from just turning the knobs, is to make it a continuous variable rather than a binary report. Rather than saying signal detected or not signal detected, I can also imagine a future where we personalize the output of multi-cancer early detection tests to return a score, for example, from 1 to 100 or 1 to 10, and give physicians the ability to use that continuous variable in addition with other clinical findings, physical exam findings, other labs, symptoms, patient's past medical history, family history, all of that together to make decisions about should we pursue further workup, should we do an invasive biopsy. This is kind of the way that we use other scoring tests in oncology, like the oncotype tests for breast cancer, decipher test in prostate cancer. And I think physicians like having continuous variables to work with and to help them make very personal decisions for patients' diagnostic workups. Dr. Davide Soldato: To summarize a little bit, what you're arguing in the paper is that we could potentially modify a little bit these tests as they fit the type of population that we are looking for. For example, if we are looking at the average risk person in America, there we just want to be sure that we are just doing additional workout and additional follow ups and additional invasive procedure, for example, biopsy, when we have a very high probability of finding that cancer. At the same time, if we have someone who has a baseline risk which is higher, like cancer survivors, in that case, we are more interested in seeing if there is really cancer at that point, and so we can increase the sensitivity and go down on specificity, but still looking at the overall outcome that we want to have for that specific patient. One thing that I was wondering is, do you also see a future where we personalize a little bit more also including additional information that comes from risk factors, environmental or behavioral patterns, type of diet, or these types of risk factors that we already know from epidemiology are associated with a higher risk? So could we potentially customize this test even more, saying, this patient has a higher risk of developing colorectal cancer, so could we look more specifically to that specific cancer type and that specific risk compared to tobacco associated cancers, that for that specific patient, they are not so relevant? Dr. Sana Raoof: What you're saying is actually a fascinating and really compelling idea, and it reminds me of the way that noninvasive prenatal testing works. So, again, back to the world of obstetrics and gynecology, you have a woman at the end of her first trimester having fetal DNA testing to look for chromosomal abnormalities. And when you order that test, you actually do put in various features about the woman to help you understand her baseline risk for carrying a fetus that has chromosomal abnormalities, including her age, the status of her other children, and other things in order to help you calculate a pretest probability. And so after that, the non invasive prenatal test takes that into consideration and returns a probability of carrying a fetus that might have those aberrations, and it's not a binary risk. It's, as I said, a continuous variable. So I think what you're proposing actually goes beyond what I wrote about in the article. I think it's a fabulous idea. And I think that in the near future, I can imagine that as natural language processing is exploding, and in general, large language models and the ability to extract features about a patient from the EMR are exploding, we might have a better stratification in general of patients into average risk, low risk, high risk, and really high risk, using EMR data, using real world data that could help us feed a really accurate picture of a patient's pre-test probability into this test, so that these tests could be further refined and further trained and validated on patients, taking into consideration more factors and help us improve the predictive power of the tests as they're returned in a report to the physician. So I think maybe you should even write an article about the idea just proposed. It's a great idea. Dr. Davide Soldato: So another aspect that I was really interested in is I've looked at one of the papers that you cited, and I wanted to discuss this with you as you are an expert on the topic. In one of the articles that you cited that used this type of test, they identified some of the cancers that we also normally identified with standard screening procedures, like breast or lung or colorectal. So for those cancers, we add a certain proportion, or like, for example, for breast cancer, a higher proportion identified with conventional screening. But still we had some other cancer that eluded those types of screening and were identified using liquid biopsy tools. So do you envision a strategy where w…

Full show notes at the publisher

JCO Article Insights: Back to the Drawing Board: Overcoming Resistance to PD-1 Blockade Jul 29, 2024

Show notes

In this episode of JCO Article Insights, Rohit Singh interviews Dr. Ticiana Leal on the editorial, "Back to the Drawing Board: Overcoming Resistance to PD-1 Blockade." TRANSCRIPT The guests' disclosures can be found in the transcript. Dr. Rohit Singh: Hello and welcome to JCO's Article Insights. I am your host Rohit Singh and today we will be discussing the JCO article, "Back to the Drawing Board: Overcoming Resistance to PD-1 Blockade." And we are joined by the senior author of the article, Dr. Ticiana Leal. Dr. Leal is an Associate Professor in the Department of Hematology and Medical Oncology at Emory University School of Medicine, and she serves as director of Thoracic Medical Thoracic Oncology Medical Program and Multidisciplinary Thoracic Oncology Leader at the Winship Cancer Institute. She also served as a member of the Board of Directors at the Georgia Society of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Leal, welcome to our podcast and thank you for joining us. Dr. Ticiana Leal: Thank you, Rohit. Thank you for this interesting opportunity to discuss our editorial. My co-authors and I are very glad to be here today. So, Dr. Jennifer Carlisle and Dr. Liu were co-authors with me on this editorial. Dr. Rohit Singh: It's a really good article. And just for our audiences, the article again, titled "Back to the Drawing Board: Overcoming Resistance to PD-1 Blockade," it discusses the challenges and the potential strategies for overcoming resistance to immune checkbox inhibitors in patients with non-small cell lung cancer. In this article, Dr. Leal and colleagues talk about the second line of drug when the patient developed disease progression while immunotherapy and they develop resistance and their definitions and what to do. So, to Dr. Leal, can you please explain the mechanisms of primary and acquired resistance to immune check prohibitors in non-small cell lung cancer? I also saw in your article you proposed the definition of immunotherapy resistance in solid tumors, distinguishing between primary resistance and acquired resistance. So, if you can please share your thoughts and explain their mechanism. Dr. Ticiana Leal: So primary resistance and acquired resistance are related to tumor intrinsic and tumor extrinsic factors. And this is mainly clinically defined as of now according to previous response patterns and timing of occurrence, and these definitions can be heterogeneous, and we certainly think that biologically they can be very different. And it can be different according to prior therapy, whether patients got immunotherapy as PD-1, PD-L1 inhibitor alone or combination strategy with CTLA-4, or the combination with chemotherapy. But the patterns of resistance can be very different and can be based on defects and antigen presentation. It can also be due to tumor microenvironment immunosuppressive effects, and there are also additional inhibitory checkpoints that can be involved. The definition in terms of when to call it primary or acquired resistance at this point has really been based on consensus guidelines by SITC, by Esmo, as well as our group Lung-MAP has developed clinical trials in this space. Specifically, through Lung-MAP, we've defined and incorporated the definition of acquired resistance as patients who have had prior exposure of 84 days or greater and then have had progression of their disease. Dr. Rohit Singh: I can see why it is so challenging to come up with a standard definition for immune checkpoint resistance and I think incorporating these definitions and predictive biomarkers for clinical trial design is going to be more important going forward. Your article talks about CONTACT-01 study, so can you please discuss the CONTACT-01 study and how the shifting treatment paradigm in the first-time study impacted it and at the same time also discuss the potential implication of the differential outcome observed between the men and women in the CONTACT-01 study. Dr. Ticiana Leal: CONTACT-01 was a much-awaited study. The authors, Dr. Neal et al, looked at a very important question in the area of immunotherapy resistance. So, CONTACT-01 was a randomized phase three global study that investigated the combination of cabozantinib plus atezolizumab versus docetaxel in patients previously treated with chemotherapy and immunotherapy. And as background, cabozantinib is an inhibitor of multiple receptor tyrosine kinases including VEGFR-2, MET, RET and TAM family kinases. Preclinically, cabozantinib could lead to immuno permissive tumor microenvironment and so it was rational to combine it with a PD-1 inhibitor. In early results of a phase 1B expanded cohort of COSMIC-021 showed really promising results of this combination which led to the rationale of CONTACT-01. In this study, however, patients that were included had different prior treatment sequences. They could have had prior immunotherapy alone followed by chemo or the opposite, or they could have had prior immunotherapy and then upon progression gotten a combination of immunotherapy plus chemotherapy. That to say that immunotherapy rechallenge is something that people are doing in clinical practice given the unmet need and the desire to overcome immunotherapy resistance. But perhaps that also includes a more resistant population of patients, and these patients certainly could have had heterogeneous mechanisms of resistance which could have impacted these results. The study did not meet the primary endpoint of overall survival. We saw a median overall survival of 10.7 months with the combination of atezo plus cabo and 10.5 months with docetaxel alone. In terms of the differences between sex that we saw in the CONTACT-01 study, just to go back in terms of the preclinical studies that have been done, there have been some preclinical studies that demonstrated that perhaps there may be some biological differences in models of different genders in mice. However, in the clinical setting, there have been, I think, contradicting results. A meta-analysis showed that perhaps women derive less benefit than men. Other studies have shown that perhaps women have more adverse events to immunotherapy. In this study specifically, only about 20% of the patients enrolled were women and the majority actually had non squamous histology. And we saw here less benefit for immunotherapy in women. But again, I think the numbers here are quite small. This is an exploratory analysis and I do think it highlights though the importance of making sure that we include populations and have higher rates of accrual, not only in women, but in other representative populations. In this study, only about 1% of the patients were black. Dr. Rohit Singh: Yeah. Thank you so much for highlighting those disparities. I think it's very important to make sure that we have proper representation of all the groups in our trials. I think based on just coming off the VEGF inhibitors, I think the Lung-MAP trial S1800A, showed a significant improvement in median OS with the combination of pembrolizumab and ramucirumab compared to standard of care. Do you envision any future commission therapies targeting the VEGF pathway with immune prohibitors in non-small cell lung cancer? Dr. Ticiana Leal: I definitely think that targeting VEGF with multikinase TKIs based on the studies that we have seen, several now randomized phase 3 studies showing that this strategy is ineffective. So, this has been quite disappointing. But we've now seen the results of CONTACT-01, that we're just discussing here, but also other studies, including SAPPHIRE, which was also a randomized phase 3 that investigated nivolumab plus another VEGF multikinase TKI, sitravatinib. And then we also saw LEAP-008, which was a negative study investigating lenvatinib plus pembrolizumab. There still is a question though, whether you can target the VEGF pathway inhibition with a monoclonal antibody, so that's ramucirumab targeting VEGFR-2 plus ICI, and whether that can actually be an effective strategy. In our Lung-MAP trial, the S1800A, this study was a randomized phase 2. Here we used the definition of acquired resistance of patients receiving prior immune checkpoint inhibitor for a minimum of 84 days, and they were randomized to the combination of pembrolizumab plus ramucirumab versus investigator's choice of standard of care, which did include docetaxel, ramucirumab, docetaxel gemcitabine and methotrexate. This was a positive study. It led to significant improvement in median overall survival and there weren't any significant safety signals here. And we're waiting for another confirmatory study called the Pragmatica-Lung study. Dr. Rohit Singh: Yeah, I did have one patient who raced through pembro, and I utilized this combination and was able to get some responses. You mentioned Pragmatica-Lung trial. Can you provide more information about the ongoing Pragmatica-Lung trial and its potential impact on the treatment paradigm? Dr. Ticiana Leal: Yeah, the Pragmatica-Lung trial is an ongoing study, S2302. This is an effort that is ongoing. Dr. Karen Reckamp is the chair of this study. And this is a study that actually has a very, I think, modern study design. The term Pragmatica, this is an effort that is supported by the NCI to really propose a clinical trial design that is pragmatic to promote diversity and inclusion in clinical trials. The aim of this trial specifically is to validate what we saw in terms of overall survival in S1800A. So, in this study, patients with previously treated advanced non-small cell lung cancer are randomized 1:1 to the combination of pembrolizumab plus ramucirumab versus standard of care for patients previously treated with immunotherapy and chemotherapy for stage 4 recurrent non-small cell lung cancer. Primary endpoint here is overall survival. And I think this kind of highlights what we were talking about in terms of empowering investigators to treat patients in a clinical trial more so like a real-world setting. And I think this can be paradigm changing and decrease barriers to enrollment and also include now the real-world population that we see in clinical practice. Dr. Rohit Singh: Yeah, changing gears a little bit. I think your article also mentioned other agents that have been tested in ICI resistance settings, like lenvatinib-sitra. However, those trials results have been disappointing. What are the possible reasons behind those dose point results with multikinase inhibitors? Dr. Ticiana Leal: We saw some really interesting, promising overall survival results with these combinations in phase two setting. In the phase 1B expansion with CONTACT-01, we saw prolonged overall survival that we thought would be promising enough to investigate in a phase 3. Ultimately, I don't know because there weren't any biomarkers that we could really tease out what was going on. Again, to highlight that both in LEAP-008 as well as CONTACT-01, there was no definition of immunotherapy resistance, which could have impacted, and we did choose the definition for SAPPHIRE, that patients had to have acquired resistance and immunotherapy had to be the most recent prior therapy. Ultimately, one potential reason for why these are not effective could be that this targeting with a multikinase TKI with multiple targets is ineffective, and you really have to target VEGF more precisely, which is the case here of ramucirumab, which targets VEGFR-2, and whether there are differences between a TKI and a monoclonal antibody may also impact the outcomes here. Dr. Rohit Singh: You mentioned biomarkers. Do you think, are there any other potential biomarkers beyond PDL-1 or human mutation burden expression that can help us predict the response image checkpoint, especially in non-small cell lung cancer? Dr. Ticiana Leal: I think that's a great question. I definitely think that more effort needs to be dedicated, and of course, there are multiple efforts in this direction. One of the challenges, obviously, has been to obtain tissue to do this biomarker testing in clinical trials. When you look at CONTACT-01, they did PDL-1 expression, but this was all based on archival tissue and it was all based on standard of care, local testing. So, a lot of heterogeneity there, and certainly using PDL-1 at baseline from initial diagnosis for a second line trial may have significant flaws there. Ultimately, right now, for clinical practice, there isn't anything that's ready for prime time. But certainly, it sounds like, based on what we're seeing, that combining biomarkers is more likely to improve the accuracy. And I think a single biomarker alone is probably going to have insufficient predictive capacity. It'd be great to be able to better comprehensively characterize an individual's tumor, to individualize immunotherapy strategies in this relapse setting. Dr. Rohit Singh: Yeah, definitely. We need more, better biomarkers. Coming to your point of heterogeneity, PD-L1. I myself had a patient, when we got PDL expressions from one site, they gave us one to 49%. However, for the testing, I sent the patient to a further lab at outset and PDL turned out to be 80%. But that was from a different site because of the bio sets only. Yeah, to your point, it's very heterogeneous and definitely we need to be more cautious interpreting those. In that trial, in CONTACT-01, we have, through the patient who have oncogenetic lung cancer. Are there any plans to explore the role of immune checkpoint in oncogenetic lung cancer, especially like non-EGFR, non ALK? I know those are the ones that we have seen in multiple studies that don't respond but are other oncogenetic lung cancer is getting more and more target treatments coming out for non-small lung cancer? Dr. Ticiana Leal: Yeah. So, for patients with driver mutations, the paradigm has been well established that if there is a driver mutation, the patient should receive the appropriate targeted therapy. Immunotherapy as monotherapy has been ineffective in a lot of the patients with driver mutations beyond EGFR and ALK, certainly RET and HER2, ROS1, or other driver mutations that we believe that immunotherapy alone is ineffective. However, we are seeing some interesting ongoing clinical trials, or completed clinical trials investigating immunotherapy in patients with driver mutations. Going back to the EGFR population, we recently saw the results of HARMONi-A, which investigated ivonescimab, which is a bispecific antibody hitting PD-1, and VEGF, that in combination with chemotherapy, improved progression free survival in patients with EGFR mutated, non-squamous, non-small cell lung cancer with progression on prior TKI treatment. So, I think it is still an area of active investigation, and I do think that ongoing trials, perhaps with different PD-1, PD-L1 combination strategies such as bispecifics may be interesting but does require investigation. Dr. Rohit Singh: Yeah, definitely. It looks like combination therapy is going to be the most likely answer coming forward with more research, we're able to figure out the best possible treatment in this subgroup of patients. Considering the current challenges and ongoing research efforts, how do you see the field of non-small cell treatment evolving in coming years? Dr. Ticiana Leal: This is an interesting and important question. I think it's been really exciting to be working in thoracic oncology research. We have seen that these research efforts have led to advancement in the field. I think we need to continue to partner and collaborate with institutions, partner with industry, and also with patients and patient advocates to design clinical trials that are really going to focus on the needs of our patients in clinical trials. The gap in the second line and beyond after immunotherapy failure is a significant one. So, I do think that the challen…

Full show notes at the publisher

Functional Disability Among US Cancer Survivors Jul 11, 2024

Show notes

Dr. Shannon Westin and her guest, Dr. Chao Cao, discuss the paper "Prevalence and Cancer-Specific Patterns of Functional Disability Among US Cancer Survivors, 2017-2022" recently published in the JCO. TRANSCRIPT The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare. Dr. Shannon Westin: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of JCO After Hours, the podcast where we get in depth with authors and manuscripts that have been published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I'm your host, Shannon Westin, gynecologic oncologist by trade and Social Media Editor for the JCO. And it is my pleasure to welcome Dr. Cao, a research fellow in medicine, Department of Medical Oncology, Dana Farber, Cancer Institute, Boston, Massachusetts. Welcome. Dr. Cao: Thanks for having me. Dr. Shannon Westin: Of course. And we're going to be discussing your very important work, "The Prevalence and Cancer Specific Patterns of Functional Disability Among US Cancer Survivors, 2017-2022," which was published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology on April 4, 2024. And Dr. Cao has no conflicts of interest in regards to this podcast. So let's get right into it. I'd love to level set. Can you speak a little bit about the definition of cancer survivorship and the number of cancer survivors currently in the United States? Dr. Cao: I think this is an important question because everyone somewhat has confusion about the definition of cancer survivorship. So based on the definition by the National Cancer Institute, cancer survivorship refers to the phase of life following the diagnosed cancer. And nowadays, it's estimated about 80 million American individuals are living after being diagnosed with cancer. And this number is projected to rise to 26 million by 2040. Dr. Shannon Westin: Wow. So obviously, any research that we can do in this population is going to be so important as that number absolutely continues to grow. And before we get into the specifics of your work, I'd love for you to speak a little bit about the importance of functional disability, which is what we studied in this work and why it might be observed in cancer survivors. Dr. Cao: Yeah, sure. So, maintaining physical function is fundamental to perform life tasks and engage in fruitful jobs. In terms of cancer survivors, many cancer survivors experience side effects from cancer and its treatment. These side effects, include the pain, fatigue, and musculoskeletal dysfunction, which can induce physical limitation and eventually physical disability. And specifically, this is such a burden for the US, social, societal and economic burden. Here I have the specific number: so in 2019, an estimate of over 100,000 people living with and beyond cancer were unable to work and they received a Social Security Administration disability benefit with the resulting cost of US$1.8 billion in disability claims. Dr. Shannon Westin: Wow. We always think about the impact on the survivor, on their family, but I think it's also really important to look at those other objective data about the impact on society as a whole. Thank you, that was great detail. Do we know anything about who might be proportionately more affected by cancer induced physical impairments and disabilities? Dr. Cao: Actually, this is our key question for our manuscript, but before we developed our hypothesis, we also looked at the data from the general population. So we observed that visual minorities and underserved populations, such as people with lower socioeconomic status and living in the rural area, and also those with unhealthy types of behavior, for example, smoking, obesity, and physical inactivity, are more likely to have physical limitations and disabilities. And also the comorbidity in cancer survival, such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease, also increase the likelihood of physical disability. We also have cancer survivors, particularly for cancer patients who are currently receiving cancer treatment, for example, chemotherapy and radiation therapy, they also are more likely to report side effects from the treatment, also have the reduced physical function. So we also think the cancer patients during the treatment also have a higher likely chance to have physical disability. Dr. Shannon Westin: Absolutely. That makes sense, and that really dovetails nicely into the objective of your study. We'd love for you to briefly summarize your objective and the methods you employed to achieve that goal. Dr. Cao: Yeah, sure. We used the six-year data, 2017 to 2022 from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System to investigate problems and factors of functional disability in over 47,000 cancer survivors and 2.4 million adults without cancer diagnosis aged 80 years and older. And we specifically focused on two types of functional disability. The first one is mobility disability, which is defined as self reported severe difficulty walking or climbing stairs. And also another one is self care disability, which is defined as self reported difficulty dressing or bathing. And also we examined the factors, for example, social demographic characteristics, lapse of behavior, and health related factors, and some cancer related factors, how these factors related to the functional disability. Dr. Shannon Westin: Okay, great. So before we get into your findings, I'd love to hear just a little bit more about the BRFSS, the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System. Why did you choose data from this survey for your study? Dr. Cao: This is a very key question, because nowadays there are no specific cohort studies for cancer survivors. And also actually, in the population based study, there is no field data specifically for the cancer survivor. But fortunately, in the United States, the CDC conducted several nationally representative surveys to examine the health status of the people living in the United States. So we used the data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Survival System, we also called BRFSS. So BRFSS is a nationwide telephone based survey conducted by the CDC and it collects information on health related risk factors and chronic micro conditions among the US adults aged 80 years or older. And specifically for our papers, because recently, the BRFSS also added a section on the cancer survivorship, which included a lot of the variables on cancer, diagnosed cancer type, and also cancer related factor symptoms, for example, the cancer or cancer treatment related pain. So we used this data to realize our idea. Dr. Shannon Westin: Okay, great. So let's start with what you found in regards to the first aspect with mobility disability. Dr. Cao: First, we observed the problems of mobility stability are much higher in cancer survivors than non-cancer adults. And also among cancer survivors, more than 25% of cancer survivors reported mobility disability. We also observe the prevalence of mobility disability is much higher in racial minority groups and underserved populations and those with unhealthy behavior and medical conditions. Dr. Shannon Westin: In addition to the underrepresented minorities, were there any other kind of socioeconomic, demographic factors associated with high prevalence of mobility disability? Dr. Cao: Yes, the factors like lower level of education, income, being unmarried, and living in non metropolitan areas were associated with higher prevalence of mobility disability. And also, I forgot to mention another factor is cancer related factors. We're also including several cancer related factors such as cancer and cancer related pain. So we also observed a higher prevalence of the mobility disability in people, in cancer survivors with cancer and cancer related pain. We also see the prevalence of the mobility disability is much higher in the patients who are currently receiving the cancer treatment than those who already completed the cancer treatment. Dr. Shannon Westin: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And to that end, with regards to treatment, were there any cancer specific patterns of mobility disability? Dr. Cao: Yeah, and also, I think this is another strength of our study, because the BRFSS high sample size, which clearly evaluates the mobility disability in over 47,000 cancer survivors, which allowed us to do the cancer specific part of mobility disability. We observed that the survivors of lung cancer and brain cancer and bone cancer have the highest prevalence of mobility disability. And interestingly, we also observed that the women with cancers also had, for example, ovary, cervical cancer survivors also have higher problems of mobility disability. Probably you know, better than me, and I just tell the data. Dr. Shannon Westin: Well, it's interesting, I was thinking, it seems like we have a lot, but I have no, obviously, frame of reference with other cancer types. So it's intriguing to me that that's definitely what we see in our clinic. So I'm intrigued to understand more about this. But before we get into the next steps and that type of thing, I do want to make sure we touch on that other aspect that you looked at, the self care disability and give the listeners a little bit of an idea of what you found there? Dr. Cao: The self care disability is kind of the more severe of the functional disability, which means, we say candidates, lower prevalence compared to the mobility disability, but still the patterns or factors associated with self care disability are much similar with mobility disability. An interesting finding is that in terms of the mobility disability, we find that older survivors are more likely to report mobility disability than younger survivors. In contrast, in terms of the self care disability, younger survivors are more likely to report than the older cancer survivors. Dr. Shannon Westin: You've touched a little bit on some of the socioeconomic and demographic factors that were different with self care disability. Was there anything else that really caught your eye? Cancer specific factors or anything else like that? Dr. Cao: Yeah, besides this, I think also we observe that women are more likely to report self care disability. I think also this is driven by the cancer specific, particularly the woman cancers have a higher prevalence of the self care disability. Dr. Shannon Westin: Well, it's definitely something for me to take back to my clinic. Now that you've covered all these results, how are your data compared to existing literature in this area? Dr. Cao: Yeah, we have tended to do comprehensive literature reviews. When we discuss our results and compare it with existing literature, our result is quite aligned with previous literature and particularly we clearly see the racial ethnic minority have a higher prevalence of physical limitation and physical function decline. But our paper focused on the physical disability which is much more severe than the physical function. And also we also looked at another study conducted in Australia, we quite find very similar results even for cancer specific patterns of the functional disability. Dr. Shannon Westin: I guess the next question I have is was there anything that surprised you about your results? Dr. Cao: I just mentioned that what surprised me the most is that the older people are more likely to report the mobility disability, but the younger people are more likely to report self care disability. Our data don't support or explore why this happened and what's the etiology behind this. But our hypothesis is that the younger cancer survivor, younger cancer patients are more likely to receive the aggressive treatment that can play a significant role in the functional outcome. Dr. Shannon Westin: Yeah, it sounds like that's definitely an area of unmet need for more research. But I like your hypothesis. I do wonder if that's somewhat related. And I guess that leads us to our final question. What are your next steps and how can I potentially use this in practice? How can our listeners employ these findings in their practice? What do you recommend? Dr. Cao: I think our findings highlight the importance of screening for functional limitations at the baseline and throughout the cancer treatment and even the cancer survivorship. Oncology providers also should encourage patients to be physically active. And also American Society of Clinical Oncology and also American College of Sports Medicine recommend that regular exercise during the treatment can help cancer patients preserve their fitness and reduce the incidence and the severity of the cancer related disability. And also providers can provide referral to rehabilitation services and support groups for additional care. For the next step, our finding highlights the importance of developing ways to limit the long term side effects of cancer treatment both during and after treatment to preserve fixed function and prevent disability. Particularly, target intervention should in particular address special needs in vulnerable populations, including the racial ethnic minorities and those living in the rural areas to improve their quality of life during a long term survivorship. And also due to the advance in the technologies, now we want to see whether wearable sensors, wearable devices can be a novel tool to monitor their physical functions during the treatment because better monitors can lead into their better treatment and their prevention. Dr. Shannon Westin: That's great. Yeah, what a great way to end. I think that exercise clearly is key not only for preventing these issues, but also we know that it potentially can even improve response to therapy and recurrence free survival. So I think lots of reasons to be focusing on physical activity in our clinics and ensuring our patients and our cancer survivors are really participating in those types of activities. Well, Dr. Cao, it was such a pleasure. I cannot believe you are only a research fellow. I can't wait to see where your career takes you. Congratulations on this great work. Dr. Cao: Thank you. Thank you for this great opportunity to share my work and I look forward for my future work in the field. Dr. Shannon Westin: Oh, yeah. So you guys, if you're looking for somebody to come and push the boundaries of functional disability and activity, you know where to look. And again, thank you all our listeners for tuning in to another episode of JCO After Hours. Again, we were discussing, "The Prevalence and Cancer Specific Patterns of Functional Disability Among US Cancer Survivors, 2017-2022." Original research published in the JCO, April 4th, 2024. So if you're looking for more podcast offerings, check out other JCO After Hours offerings wherever you get your podcasts. Have an awesome day. The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

Full show notes at the publisher

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Richter's Transformation Jun 24, 2024

Show notes

In this JCO Article Insights episode, Alexandra Rojek provides a summary on "Anti-CD19 Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-cell therapy for Richter's Transformation: An International, Multicenter, Retrospective Study by Kittai, et al published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology March 29th, 2024.

TRANSCRIPT

The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare.

Alexandra Rojek: Hello and welcome to JCO Article Insights. I'm your host, Alexandra Rojek, and today we will be discussing an original report published in the June 10th issue of JCO titled, "Anti-CD19 Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy for Richter Transformation: An International, Multicenter, Retrospective Study," by Kittai et al. This report addresses the real world efficacy of CAR T-cell therapy for patients with Richter transformation of CLL to large B cell lymphoma, which represents a high risk group of patients with an unmet need for novel and more effective therapeutic agents than are currently available. Richter's represents the transformation of chronic lymphocytic leukemia, or CLL, to an aggressive lymphoma, most often a large B cell lymphoma, most similar to diffuse large B cell lymphoma or DLBCL. Treatment for Richters is often modeled after treatment practices for DLBCL. However, there's no clear standard of care and outcomes for these patients lag behind those of large B cell lymphoma patients otherwise.

An important advance in recent years in the DLBCL field is the approval of anti CD19 CAR T-cell therapy in the second and third line settings. However, patients with Richter transformation were largely excluded from these pivotal trials. This study in JCO thus set out to address what the real world outcomes were for patients with Richters who were treated with CAR T-cell therapy across 12 centers internationally. The study included 69 patients across these twelve sites, with a median age of 63 years at diagnosis of Richters and a median of six years after initial CLL diagnosis. Included patients received a median of four prior lines of therapy for either CLL or Richters, with a median of two prior lines of therapy for Richters, although two patients had not received any prior therapy for their Richter transformation.

The most recent prior treatments included chemoimmunotherapy in 29% of patients, followed by BTK inhibitors in 19%, as well as combinations of BTK inhibitors and BCL2 inhibitors in 12%. 17% of patients had not received prior therapy for their CLL before their diagnosis with Richters, 58% of cases had known TP53 mutations at time of transformation, and 41% exhibited deletion 17p by FISH. Prior to receiving CAR T-cell therapy, 86% of patients required additional bridging therapy, most commonly with a BTK inhibitor or chemoimmunotherapy. A diverse set of commercial CAR T-cell products were represented in this study, with the majority of patients at 64% receiving axi-cel, 25% receiving tisa-cel, 10% receiving liso-cel, and one patient received brexu-cel in an investigational setting. Median time from apheresis to CAR T infusion was 34 days, and 59% of patients continued on a BTK inhibitor throughout CAR T-cell therapy.

When we move on to look at responses, 66 out of 69 patients were available for response. Three patients died related to adverse events after infusion and before response assessment, with the best overall response of complete response or CR in 46% of patients and partial response or PR in 17% for an overall response rate of 63%. With a median follow up time of 24 months, the median PFS in the study was 4.7 months and the median OS was 8.5 months. For those who achieved a CR, the median duration of response was an impressive 27 months, and for those achieving PR, the median duration of response was only two months. The two year PFS rate was thus 28%, and the two year OS rate was 38%. Four patients who achieved a CR went on to receive an allogeneic stem cell transplant. Among those whose disease progressed, 8% had relapse involving the CNS, compared to 10% of patients having CNS involvement prior to CAR T in this study population. The authors were also able to look at minimal residual disease, or MRD testing for CLL in a subset of 27 patients in this study. MRD was undetectable by PCR or flow in either blood or bone marrow in 81% of these 27 patients. However, not all of these patients had paired pre and post CAR T samples available for comparison, thus limiting more detailed interpretation.

In an analysis of risk factors linked to adverse outcomes, the study authors found in a multivariable analysis for overall survival that a greater number of prior lines of therapy for Richters, a higher Ki-67 proliferation index, and a higher baseline LDH and CRP were all associated with shorter OS. They did not find an association between patterns of BTK inhibitor use, whether prior to apheresis, as a part of bridging, or concurrent with CAR T-cell therapy, to be associated with either PFS or OS. In evaluating rates of toxicities for patients with Richters treated with CAR T, the authors find that grade 3 or higher cytokine release syndrome or CRS occurred in 16% of patients and grade 3 or higher neurotoxicity or ICANS occurred in 37%. They did not find any baseline features associated with higher risk of severe CRS, however, did find that prior venetoclax exposure was associated with severe ICANS.

Overall, the authors find that CAR T-cell therapy is a feasible and effective therapy for Richter transformation of CLL to large B cell lymphoma, thus contributing data to support this additional therapeutic option in a high risk patient population with unmet therapeutic needs. While the PFS and OS rates are lower than those of their large B cell lymphoma counterparts, overall response rate of 63% and particularly the CR rate of 46% with a duration of response of 27 months for this group is quite promising. Those who achieved less than a CR had a much shorter duration of response and progressed quickly, and overall, the median overall survival of the whole study population is only over eight months, which reflects the high risk and poor outcome nature of treatment for Richters with currently available therapies. As the authors discuss, it is likely that the efficacy of CAR T-cell therapy is somewhat overstated in their results by virtue of not being able to include patients who were intended for CAR T-cell therapy but could not receive it in this retrospective study. This represents one of the many real world challenges patients and clinicians treating Richters face. However, the promising results for those who were able to receive CAR T-cell therapy represent a path forward for future investigations for Richters patients.

One of the avenues of future pursuit is the addition of BTK inhibitors to CAR T-cell therapy. A subset of patients included in this study received BTK inhibitors for CLL before, during, and after CAR T-cell therapy, and although limited by subgroup analysis and statistical power constraints, this study's authors did not find a difference in outcomes for those who received BTK inhibitors in these settings. Toxicities with severe CRS and ICANS were higher than rates reported in large B cell lymphoma CAR T trials. However, as the authors note, these were comparable to the study of liso-cel toxicity in CLL patients. Higher rates of infection related deaths were also noted compared to large B cell lymphoma patient counterparts, however, in line with comparable CLL patient studies and thus likely related to the unique biology of Richters arising from CLL rather than de novo large B cell lymphoma.

In summary, this important work evaluating the outcomes of patients with Richter's transformation treated with anti CD19 CAR T-cell therapy in the commercial setting provides important evidence as to the efficacy of this therapy among patients with an unmet need for efficacious and novel therapies to improve outcomes. As this group of patients is often excluded from clinical trials, this data is particularly important and should drive forward future studies focusing on and or including patients with Richters, given the benefits seen for a subset of patients who achieve a response in the study. While the antecedent CLL distinguishes Richters from de novo large B cell lymphoma biologically along with differences in prior treatment regimens, this study in JCO suggests that future strategies targeting improving baseline disease factors prior to CAR T-cell therapy, including successfully bridging patients to CAR T, reducing risk of CRS and ICANS with treatment, and improving long term efficacy after CAR T with novel constructs, and CAR design, may all be promising next steps in the advancement of CAR T-cell therapy for patients with Richter transformation.

This is Alexandra Rojek. Thank you for listening to JCO Article Insights. Don't forget to give us a rating or review, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can find all ASCO shows at asco.org/podcasts.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

EAZ171: Predictors of TIPN in Black Women with Breast Cancer Jun 03, 2024

Show notes

Dr. Shannon Westin and her guest, Dr. Bryan Schneider discuss the article "ECOG-ACRIN EAZ171: Prospective Validation Trial of Germline Predictors of Taxane-induced Peripheral Neuropathy in Black Women with Early Stage Breast Cancer" recently published in the JCO and presented at the 2024 ASCO Annual Meeting.

TRANSCRIPT

The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare.

Shannon Westin: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of JCO After Hours, the podcast where we get in depth on manuscripts published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I am your host, Shannon Westin, GYN Oncology Extraordinaire and also the Social Media Editor of the Journal of Clinical Oncology. And it is my great pleasure to present some really incredible work today that is going to be a dual publication in the Journal Clinical Oncology and a presentation at the American Society of Clinical Oncology Annual Meeting on Monday, June 3. And this is the "ECOG-ACRIN EAZ171: Prospective Validation Trial of Germline Predictors of Taxane-induced Peripheral Neuropathy in Black Women with Early Stage Breast Cancer."

And I am joined today by the senior author on the presentation and the primary author on the manuscript, Dr. Bryan Schneider. He is the Vera Bradley Professor of Oncology, the Professor of Medicine and Medical Molecular Genetics at the Indiana University Melvin and Bren Simon Comprehensive Cancer Center in Indianapolis.

Welcome, Dr. Schneider.

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Dr. Westin, thank you for having me on today.

Shannon Westin: We're so excited and we're really excited to really summarize this incredible work that's being presented today. So, first, let's just levelset. Can you speak a little bit about peripheral neuropathy and the most common causes in patients with cancer?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah, I mean, I think for those of us who treat patients using the taxanes, we recognize probably one of the most important and common side effects that we deal with is peripheral neuropathy, and one that can, I think, impact both quality of life, but also impacts the ability to maintain dose intensity. When we think about risk factors for neuropathy, historically, I think obesity has been reported as a potential risk factor, as has diabetes and other conditions which put people at risk for neuropathy.

Shannon Westin: And prior to your work that you'll discuss with us today, what do we know about the incidence of peripheral neuropathy in patients that identify as black?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah. So, interestingly, I think we've recognized that patients who self identify as black have disparate outcomes in terms of inferior survival and more aggressive subtypes of breast cancer, like triple negative breast cancer. But I think the idea of toxicity being a disparate factor as well is probably a more recent one. Interestingly, as we set out to identify biomarkers to predict outcomes in the large adjuvant trial E5103, we weren't really setting out to look at this by race. We were using at that time, genome-wide approaches to identify biomarkers for toxicity and also efficacy. But what was interesting as we did that one of the most important predictors, as we looked across a number of important toxicities, was ancestry. And really the science spoke to us, it was very clear that patients of African ancestry had higher rates of bev-induced hypertension, anthracycline-induced cardiomyopathies and also peripheral neuropathy.

Shannon Westin: That's so interesting. We have so much overlap in gynecologic oncology and breast cancer. And I don't know that I've ever seen work like this. And now it's making me very intrigued and making me want to move forward to that.

Can you talk a little bit more about this ECOG-ACRIN E5103, like briefly about the study and what it demonstrated specifically?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah. So E5103 was an adjuvant breast cancer trial that really set out to look at the impact of bevacizumab in the curative setting. This was a 5000 patient trial that randomized patients the standard backbone of chemotherapy. So everyone received four cycles of doxorubicin and cyclophosphamide, followed by weekly paclitaxel, and then with or without the addition of bevacizumab. So the parent clinical trial showed, as we know now, bevacizumab didn't add benefit, but certainly this was a fertile ground for us to use genomic markers to try to identify a number of other important factors and predictors.

Shannon Westin: And what did you find genomically in that study that led to kind of where we are now?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Initially, what we found is that ancestry was a major predictor of neuropathy. And in that trial we saw essentially a doubling of the risk of grade 2 and above and a doubling of the risk of grade 3 and above neuropathy. When we then looked comprehensively across the genome for common variants that might put patients at risk for neuropathy, we had enough patients in the black population to identify some markers that seemed to differentially predict the risk of neuropathy in the patients of African ancestry. So there we found a variant in the gene FCAMR, which appeared to be protected from neuropathy, and FCAMR is known to have an immune modulatory effect. But importantly, we also found that rare variants, so we did this using an exome wide approach in a gene called SPF2, predicted an increased risk of neuropathy. Now, interestingly, that gene SPF2 is also thought to contribute to a hereditary form of neuropathy, Charcot-Marie-Tooth. Here, what we found, obviously, is that if you inherit two of these variants, you probably have a hereditary neuropathy, but if you inherit one, you may not have neuropathy at baseline, but if exposed to a neurotoxin, much more predisposed to that event.

Shannon Westin: That is so intriguing and makes so much physiologic sense. So, can you talk a little bit about how that led to the development of the current study, the objectives design, that type of thing?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah. I think, overarching question and concern is, and we see this with all clinical trials in the United States, is that we're seeing disparate outcomes in a population that are largely underrepresented in our clinical trials. And so one of the first things we wanted to do was really focus on the population that was being disparately affected. So EAZ171 was set out to accrue patients, and in fact, only accrue patients who were self described as a Bck race or African American. So the goal of this trial then was to see if, number one, we could further predict which patients were going to get neuropathy based on our germline genotyping, and then also to better personalize the type of taxane based, again on genomics, but also on the risk of dose reductions, risk of neuropathy, impact on financial toxicity, quality of life, and a number of other, what we felt to be, important clinical variables.

Shannon Westin: So let's get into the details. What did you find regarding the incidence of neuropathy in the study, and how was it impacted by the type of chemotherapy the patient received?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah. So the starting point, the primary objective of that study, was to try to validate a high and low risk composite score for neuropathy. And the trial was negative, meaning our genotypes did not predict significantly differences based on the germline genotyping. Now, interestingly, the genotyping did numerically separate, meaning those in the high risk category had about a 12% higher risk of neuropathy, but this did not meet statistical significance. Another major or key secondary endpoint, though, was to look at the type of taxane and its impact in this population. And indeed, what we found is that patients who received paclitaxel had a markedly and statistically significantly higher risk of both grade 2 and above and grade 3 and above peripheral neuropathy. And in addition, we saw more dose reductions, both because of TIPN and all causes in the paclitaxel arm.

Shannon Westin: So why do you think you were unable to validate the genomic predictors in the current study?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: This is an incredibly important question. So, number one, I mean, we were happy to see the directionality of our preliminary data be correct. But I do think that neuropathy is a very complicated toxicity, and it's probably a multigenic effect, and it probably is also impacted a lot by a variety of clinical factors. So some of the future work we'll be doing is looking at polygenic risk scores and other known genes that may be impactful, and also melding that with a number of really important clinical variables, because I still think we have the potential to predict this ahead of time.

Shannon Westin: I know that this was such a patient driven topic, really focused on the patient experience and how to improve not only survival outcomes, but also toxicities and quality of life. Can you speak a little bit about the role of patients in the design of this trial, and maybe with helping it be as successful as it was with accrual?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Yeah. This has truly been one of the most exciting projects I've ever embarked on, and largely because of the incredible team atmosphere and contributions by so many people. Real thanks to the late Worta McCaskill-Stevens and also the late Edith Mitchell, who were two really fundamental disparities experts who really helped motor this trial to where it was. And also our patient advocates and the community at large really were part of the design and part of this from the very beginning, all the way through the publication, I think, have made it a clinically relevant study, and one that I think we're all very proud of.

Shannon Westin: Is paclitaxel typically, what is the go-to? Or are more people using, let's say, docetaxel?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: I think it depends a little bit on the disease setting and type. And again, is a function of historical clinical trials. One of the pivotal trials, E1199, actually compared a number of these. So it compared weekly paclitaxel to every three week paclitaxel to weekly docetaxel to every three week docetaxel in a two by two design. And essentially the conclusion there is that weekly paclitaxel and every three week docetaxel both outperformed what at the time was a standard of care, every three week paclitaxel. Now, weekly paclitaxel, at least through ECOG-ACRIN, has been adopted as kind of the standard reference therapy and schedule of choice, but largely because of the side effect profile. And again, this is based predominantly on white patients, where the tolerability is much better.

Shannon Westin: Well, I mean, I think that this leads to really great information around how we're designing these trials and how we're potentially making those differences. What are your next steps here?

Dr. Bryan Schneider: So I think one of the things this clinical trial did was first validate that we do see high rates of peripheral neuropathy in Black patients with breast cancer. This was a prospective study using both physician and patient adjudicated variables. So I think this is a really nice validation that this is a problem in this population. I think it also shows us that docetaxel is probably a more tolerable drug for black patients with breast cancer.

The goal, though, I think in our future work, is really going to try to bring equity in terms of outcome and side effects. So we're working with ECOG-ACRIN now on our second trial, where really the primary endpoint is going to be to nullify the disparities and try to bring equity in terms of toxicity. One of the other pieces of work we're really excited about is we're doing some ex vivo work. So from patients in EAZ171, we have a blood stick where we're taking white blood cells and differentiating those into peripheral neurons. And here we're hoping to look at really important changes in both gene expression and epigenetics that might lead us to a little bit deeper understanding of the mechanism of the disparities in neuropathy, maybe what's causing some of the neuropathy. And we hope ultimately, these may lead to nice drug targets to help prevent or treat neuropathy down the road.

Shannon Westin: Those are some really great ideas. The other thing that really caught my eye around your findings was what you all found regarding the physician reported and patient reported toxicity. I'd love for you to summarize that, because I think that's always a concern as well.

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Historically, I think we recognize that physicians probably underreport side effects. And so we felt, and our team felt, that having patient reported outcomes would be a really critical piece to this study. What was fairly astonishing to me, if you look at the CTCAE, both patient and physician reported outcomes, they were actually pretty similar. And I think what this is a testament to is if physicians are actually thinking about the side effect, they do a pretty good job of predicting it. Now, one thing we're looking very forward to is that we have a long term follow up out to three years. So it'll be interesting to see if physicians continue to pay close attention to neuropathy, because I know the patients will be. So we'll be looking at the discordance at these longer term follow up time points as well.

Shannon Westin: Well, great. This is such incredible work, and I'm like literally taking notes to get in touch with people I know that do this type of work and gynecological malignancies because I think that this is going to have far reaching consequences. So just thank you so much for taking the time to review this and congratulations on the JCO publication and ASCO presentation. It's very well deserved.

Dr. Bryan Schneider: Thank you Dr. Westin.

Shannon Westin: And thank you to all of our listeners. Again, we have been discussing the "ECOG-ACRIN EAZ171: Prospective Validation Trial of Germline Predictors of Taxane-induced Peripheral Neuropathy in Black Women with Early Stage Breast Cancer." We're so grateful you joined us, and please do check out our other offerings wherever you get your podcasts. Have an awesome day.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Disclosures

Research Funding

Company name: Genentech/Roche

Company name: Pfizer

Company name: Foundation Medicine

JCO Article Insights: Final Analysis of the Ro-CHOP Trial May 27, 2024

Show notes

In this JCO Article Insights episode, Alexandra Rojek provides a summary on "Romidepsin Plus Cyclophosphamide, Doxorubicin, Vincristine, and Prednisone Versus Cyclophosphamide, Doxorubicin, Vincristine, and Prednisone in Patients With Previously Untreated Peripheral T-Cell Lymphoma: Final Analysis of the Ro-CHOP Trial" by Camus et al published February 16th, 2024 and the associated editorial written by Dr. Mehta-Shah and Dr. Horwitz.

TRANSCRIPT

The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare.

Alexandra Rojek: Hello and welcome to JCO Article Insights. I'm your host, Alexandra Rojek, and today we will be discussing a clinical trial update published in the May 10th issue of JCO addressing the long term follow up of the addition of romidepsin to CHOP chemotherapy for previously untreated peripheral T-cell lymphoma, or PTCL. This report by Camus et al discusses a five-year follow up of the original Ro-CHOP trial, which did not meet its primary endpoint of progression free survival. The original Ro-CHOP study, conducted by the LYSA group, was published in 2021 in JCO and was conducted as a one-to-one randomized phase III study of Ro-CHOP versus CHOP for patients aged 18 to 80 years with PTCL. 98 international centers were included, and the study enrolled patients between 2013 and '17. Nodal follicular helper T-cell, or TFH lymphoma was defined in this study follow-up as a PTCL expressing at least two of five TFH markers according to the latest classifications. The study's primary endpoint was PFS with secondary endpoints of OS and duration of response, or DOR. Five year follow up was reached in December 2022.

In the original study report, the addition of romidepsin to CHOP did result in a reduction of dose intensity of chemotherapy. However, in this updated follow up, there were no new safety signals reported. A total of 421 patients were enrolled in the trial with a median age of 65 years. Notably, those who were randomized to the Ro-CHOP arm had a higher proportion of IPI 4-5 scores at 33%, versus 24% of those who were assigned to CHOP alone despite randomization. Nearly half of patients carried a histologic diagnosis of angioimmunoblastic T-cell lymphoma. 30% were characterized as PTCL NOS, not otherwise specified, 10% ALK negative anaplastic large cell lymphoma, leaving 13% reported as other. Over 60% of patients had stage four disease at enrollment, with nearly half having more than two sites of extranodal involvement. Median follow up was six years with a median PFS of 12 months for Ro-CHOP and 10.2 months for CHOP, which did not reach statistical significance as reported in the original study publication. Estimated five year OS available as a part of this clinical trial update was 50% for Ro-CHOP and 43% for CHOP alone, and also did not reach significance. There was, however, a longer duration of response observed in the Ro-CHOP arm at 52 months versus 24 months for CHOP, which is a new finding in this extended follow up of the study.

In an effort to better understand whether there are subgroups which may benefit from romidepsin despite the overall negative outcome of this study, the authors are able to provide new insights from this Ro-CHOP study in line with our current and updated understanding of PTCL. When the authors evaluated the study population for subgroups which may benefit from addition of romidepsin, TFH lymphomas, which included angioimmunoblastic, follicular, and NOS subtypes, were noted to have an improved response to the addition of this HDAC inhibitor. This subgroup, numbering 201 patients, experienced a mean PFS of over 19 months with Ro-CHOP versus over 10 months for those who received CHOP, and this difference achieved statistical significance. Similarly, there was a higher complete response rate and longer duration of response for those in the TFH subgroup who received romidepsin.

The authors also make note that those patients in this subgroup with high IPI appeared to particularly benefit. However, those in the PTCL NOS group who did not fit the TFH subtype experienced poor outcomes with shorter PFS and OS as compared to other histologic subtypes, which is in line with other reported data in the field. The authors in this update also report on treatments and outcomes after first progression or relapse of disease, which includes a total of 274 patients, of whom 251 received second line therapy. The median PFS in OS after progression or relapse was only 3.3 months and 11.5 months, respectively, and again, patients with the TFH subtype experienced a longer median OS than other included histologies. Only 8% of patients proceeded to undergo autologous stem cell transplantation overall, and 5% underwent allogeneic stem cell transplantation.

While the authors note that they did not observe any notable outcome differences between various included second line therapies, they do note of a possible benefit of the antibody drug conjugate brentuximab vedotin or BV in combination with chemotherapy backbones. Those who received a BV containing regimen in the second line experienced a better CR rate and a longer PFS, too. However, the OS too was not significantly different. Again, the authors note that most of the benefit of the addition of BV to chemotherapy in the second line appeared focused on this TFH lymphoma subgroup. Of note, CD30 status was not recorded as a part of the study for included patients and could not be further reported on.

The findings of the authors present in this subgroup analysis of the negative Ro-CHOP study seek to find benefit in future lessons for patients with these rare lymphomas who do not have a multitude of effective treatments available to them. The subgroup benefit in this clinical trial update based on the TFH phenotype fits our evolving understanding of PTCL in the modern era. Mutations characteristic of the TFH subgroup, in this case often involved in chromatin modification and the tumor microenvironment, have been linked to improved responses when treating with epigenetic targeting drugs such as romidepsin, thus making the findings of TFH lymphoma in the Ro-CHOP trial confirmatory of what we would expect from correlative studies. Despite the benefit of Ro-CHOP for those with TFH lymphoma, this updated analysis of a major frontline study of PTCL highlights the critical need in the T-cell lymphoma field to, first of all, better understand and separate what we have come to recognize as the heterogeneous diseases historically lumped together as PTCL. This historic classification, based on a lack of deeper molecular understanding of disease biology is unlikely to represent the true biologic diversity of its component subtypes, including the focus on TFH lymphoma presented here. The second critical unmet need, which this subgroup analysis highlights, is the need to investigate the benefit of new therapeutic agents in these distinct subgroups of PTCL, where the need for improved survival outcomes is sorely needed when examining historical outcomes with currently available therapies, both in the frontline setting as well as those in the relapsed refractory group.

The associated editorial, written by Dr. Mehta-Shah and Dr. Horwitz, elegantly discusses the challenges of designing studies in rare diseases such as PTCL, which are both biologically informed as well as appropriately powered. As the authors discuss, it is rare to get a second chance for a drug, as is the case for romidepsin, where these negative results led to its voluntary withdrawal in PTCL, affecting availability of the drug for patients in the relapsed setting, as well as future clinical trials, which could have had potential for success. Additionally, better understanding of the biological underpinnings of PTCL needs to lead to better designed and appropriately powered clinical trials, as these subsets of patients are in great need of therapeutic advances. While none of these tasks is easy nor straightforward, this clinical trial update of the RoCHOP study suggests a path forward from learning from prior, promising yet failed attempts at moving the standard of care for frontline therapy of T-cell lymphoma forward.

This is Alexandra Rojek thank you for listening to JCO Article Insights. Don't forget to give us a rating or review and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can find all ASCO shows at ascp.org/podcasts.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Methylphenidate for Fatigue in Advanced Cancer May 17, 2024

Show notes

Dr. Shannon Westin and her guest, Dr. Patrick Stone, discuss the article, Methylphenidate Versus Placebo for Treating Fatigue in People with Advanced Cancer, a Randomized, Double-Blind, Multicenter Placebo-Controlled Trial, recently published in JCO. TRANSCRIPT The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare. Shannon Westin: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of JCO After Hours, the podcast where we go in depth on manuscripts and research published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I am your host, Shannon Westin, Social Media Editor for JCO and a Gynecologic Oncologist by trade. I am thrilled today to present Methylphenidate Versus Placebo for Treating Fatigue in People with Advanced Cancer, a Randomized, Double-Blind, Multicenter Placebo-Controlled Trial. This manuscript is a dual publication in the Journal of Clinical Oncology and presentation at the European Association of Palliative Care Congress here on May 17, 2024. And to review this incredible research with us will be Professor Patrick Stone, the Head of Department of Marie Curie Palliative Care Research Department, Division of Psychiatry at University College London. Welcome, Dr. Stone. Dr. Patrick Stone: Thank you very much. Thank you. Shannon Westin: Let's get right to it, we'll level set. Can you speak a bit about the definition of cancer-related fatigue and how common it is in people with advanced cancer? Dr. Patrick Stone: Sure. I think fatigue is a difficult thing to nail down really and define it clearly, and there are lots of definitions out there. In many ways, the simplest definition is the EAPC, the European Association of Palliative Care's definition of just a subjective sensation of weakness, feeling tired, and exhaustion. The reality is that that symptom is very common in the general population. And so if you really want to get a handle on it, I think a good way to do it is to think about taking an operational definition and say, "Look, if fatigue is normally distributed approximately in the general population, then we should consider severe fatigue or pathological fatigue could be defined as fatigue that is worse than 95% of the general population. And if you think that definition, then prevalence of fatigue in patients with newly diagnosed breast or prostate cancer, for instance, is around 15%, so three times as common as the most severe fatigue in the general population. If you come to patients with newly diagnosed non-small cell lung cancer, it's up to about 50%. And if you come to my area, which is palliative care and you go to a hospice and you ask people to complete a fatigue questionnaire, 78-80% of people complain of fatigue that is more severe than 95% of the general population. So that I think gives us a good handle on sort of the severity of this problem in cancer patients and how it progresses as disease progresses. Shannon Westin: I love this because I think we always struggle with exactly how to nail down the definition and exactly how to treat it. So I think that it's a really nice transition to existing treatment options for this issue and exactly how they might work. Dr. Patrick Stone: The first thing to say is in medicine if you can find a cause then you give a treatment directed at the cause and obviously that applies to fatigue as well. So the first thing is to do a thorough assessment of your patient, and if you can find an easily remediable cause such as anemia, hypocalcemia, or hypomagnesemia, or maybe other things like depression, which might manifest as fatigue, then you should try and give a treatment directed at that cause. But, for many patients, there won't be a single clearly identifiable cause you can target. And then people use more broad spectrum approaches if you like. The most well-studied I think is exercise. And exercise, there have been lots of randomized controlled trials in different types of exercise and it's a well attested treatment, which I think has good evidence of effectiveness, certainly in patients who are on treatment and in disease-free survivors. There is less evidence in advanced cancer because the trials are fewer. I would still say that there's moderate quality evidence that exercise is effective in advanced cancer. The other group of treatments, broadly speaking, would be psychological therapies, cognitive behavioral therapy and psychoeducational approaches, mindfulness based stress reduction, that sort of thing. And again, in earlier stage disease and in patients on treatment and in survivors, there's more quality evidence that that sort of approach can help, if not alleviate fatigue, allow people to cope better with fatigue. But the evidence in advanced cancer is weaker than for exercise. So I think the evidence for the effectiveness of those psychological therapies is not so strong. And then you come on to pharmacological therapies and there have been lots of trials of different agents. I won't list them all because most of them are negative and don't show any benefit. A few things which perhaps still show promise from previous trials, there have been, for instance, a few trials looking at ginseng as a herbal therapy. One very good quality trial showed benefit. Although another trial in advanced cancer didn't replicate that finding, so that ginseng is out there. Steroids, widely used in advanced cancer for general relief of many symptoms like fatigue, lack of energy, low moods, appetite. But although widely used, surprisingly little hard evidence or effectiveness, specifically for fatigue, but one relatively recent, well conducted randomized control trial, provides us with some firm evidence, also, that dexamethasone can help in the short term in advanced cancer patients. It obviously wouldn't be a recommended treatment longer term because of its side effects. And then we really come on to the crux of this study which is probably the most widely studied single agent beyond that, is methylphenidate, which is a psychostimulant agent, raises central dopamine catecholamine levels in the brain. And there's probably a thousand or so randomized control trials sort of being conducted looking at that prior to prize of this study that we're talking about. Shannon Westin: I would love to hear a summary of the data that were pre-existing in this study. So how well does methylphenidate seem to work, or what were the conflicting results that were seen prior? Dr. Patrick Stone: I think the rationale for this study was that it was the perfect background to justify another randomized controlled trial, which there have been– Well, I can't remember exactly how many there were in existence before my trial started, but when I last looked, there were 10 studies, 10 randomized controlled trials in cancer patients. Most of those trials have been neutral. They've shown no benefit over placebo, so most of the individual trials are negative. But meta-analyses always tend to show a positive result. So when you count the trials together, it gets you over the finishing line and you can see a positive benefit. But individually, the trials were quite heterogeneous, they're quite different. There were only four trials prior to the publication of this one that were done specifically in advanced cancer patients. One of them was published only a couple of years ago while my study was going on. And of those four trials, three of those have also been neutral, not showing a benefit over placebo. One study involving 28 patients and using a PRN as required dosing schedule showed some benefit. But the other studies with a total of about 330 odd patients have been neutral. Shannon Westin: I think that brings us to a great transition, just to talk a little bit about the design and objectives of your current study. Dr. Patrick Stone: Well, what we wanted to do was take the best bits, if you like, of the previous studies, and try to give ourselves the best chance of finding a clinically meaningful improvement in fatigue in patients with advanced cancer. And I was focusing on advanced cancer, principally because I'm a specialist in palliative medicine. That's the group of patients I'm most working with, whereas a lot of the studies have involved mixed groups of cancer patients or patient's disease-free or on treatment. But we looked at patients who were under the care of palliative care services, with incurable cancer, with a prognosis estimated to be less than a year or around a year. We wanted to try to get the dose of the medication up to a good level because some of the other studies which have shown benefit have got up to quite high levels of methylphenidate, approximating to about 40 to 60 milligrams of methylphenidate a day or equivalent. And we wanted to give the drug in an individually titrated dose because that would reflect the way it is used in clinical practice. You would adjust the dose like you might with morphine for pain relief. You would expect to adjust the dose of this medication up to get a therapeutic benefit. So we had this titration period where we adjusted the dose of the drug every week. We reviewed whether patients were feeling better, worse, or the same. We asked about side effects. And on the basis of the response to those questions, we either went up with the drug or kept the dose the same, or, if necessary, would come down. The primary endpoint was designed to be fatigue after six weeks of dose titration, plus or minus a window of two weeks, accepting the fact that we might miss a few patients at the six-week mark, for whatever reason. So we had a little window around that. That's what we were looking to do. Shannon Westin: And why did you choose the six-week time point? Dr. Patrick Stone: Well, there was no obvious time point to choose. One of the biggest positive studies previously was by Lower and colleagues back in 2009, and they had found their maximum benefit at around four weeks, or it took rather four weeks to reach the maximum benefit. So we wanted to give the patients in our trial every chance of demonstrating the benefit, and they'd also escalated the doses in their study up to above 40 milligrams or equivalent. And so we wanted to go up as high as we could, and we didn't feel that if we were adjusting the dose every week, that we could get up to a sufficiently high dose in any shorter time span. So six weeks sort of fitted, allowing us to titrate the dose up to a maximum of 60 milligrams a day, which is where we wanted to get up to. Shannon Westin: And what about a little bit more detail on the population you included, and maybe give us a sense of how well you think that represents your general population affected by fatigue in the setting of advanced cancer? Dr. Patrick Stone: We recruited patients from hospices, so that's inpatient palliative care units in the UK, but also from hospital palliative care services, from oncology outpatient services as well, oncology patients who are under the care of palliative care services, and we also recruited from some community palliative care services. So we had quite a good spread of settings, and all of our patients had advanced incurable cancer under the care of palliative care services. But I would say, I think by the nature of doing this randomized controlled trial, inevitably we ended up with quite a selected population, just because of the inclusion and the exclusion criteria that we had to apply. And the regulators were quite clear about who we shouldn't be putting on the drugs. And I think by the time you've excluded all the potential adverse consequences of using methylphenidate, we probably have ended up with a group of patients who were relatively fit compared to the general run-of-the-mill palliative care population, I would say. So I think that that is a limitation with regards to the generalizability of our result. Shannon Westin: How did you measure fatigue in this study? What was the mechanism for that objective? Dr. Patrick Stone: It's a subjective rating scale. We use a very well-established and well-validated measurement instrument. It's the Functional Assessment of Chronic Illness Therapy FACIT-F which is the fatigue subscale of their anemia subscale, which is a 13-item questionnaire, very well validated and widely used in lots of previous studies. Higher scores represent better quality of life and, therefore, lower levels of fatigue. So that's the scale that we used. Shannon Westin: Got it. So let's get to it. How well did methylphenidate work to impact fatigue compared to placebo? And were there any groups that seemed to have a bigger impact? Dr. Patrick Stone: Well, the bottom line, of course, is that at six weeks, plus or minus two weeks, there was no statistically significant benefit for methylphenidate over placebo. There was a two-point improvement in fatigue scores, but it wasn't statistically significant. And two points on the FACIT-F did not reach our predetermined five-point difference that we regarded as representing a minimally clinically important difference. We looked at lots of secondary fatigue endpoints. We measured fatigue every week over the whole course of the study. And actually, at weeks 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, there was indeed a statistically, nominally statistically significant difference in fatigue scores. But I really would not want anybody to read anything over much into that finding because it was not a pre-stated hypothesis of our study. It wasn't a pre-stated endpoint, it was a secondary outcome. And moreover, even if this was regarded as a statistically significant finding, and as I say, it was only nominally statistically significant finding, the magnitude of the change was still not sufficiently large that I think it would want to influence your clinical decision making. With other groups just to say, we did look specifically at whether patients with the most severe fatigue would experience benefit over and above other patients, because in a previous study, that looked at modafinil, an agent that promotes vigilance, although the overall finding was neutral in a subgroup of patients with the most severe fatigue, modafinil seemed to work. So we thought we better check in this study whether patients with the most severe fatigue had a differential benefit. But we found no such effect. We found no difference in patients who were on or off treatment or indeed among the patients who scored highest with the depression subscale on the hospital anxiety and depression scale. None of these subgroups showed any benefit over placebo. Shannon Westin: How did patients tolerate methylphenidate? Was it tolerable? Dr. Patrick Stone: That was the thing I think that I was most relieved about. I am a cautious and anxious investigator, and the last thing I wanted to do was to put palliative care patients at risk by giving them a drug which might cause some harm. So I was very relieved when we analyzed the results to confirm that methylphenidate was very well tolerated. There was no real pattern of evidence for any increase in adverse effects over placebo. In fact, when we looked at just people who self-reported severe adverse effects, we found a higher rate in the placebo group than in the methylphenidate group in fact. And in terms of serious adverse events, there were 25 serious adverse events in both groups, so there was, again, no pattern that suggested methylphenidate was causing harm. So, yes, it was well tolerated, but did not result in a clinically important improvement in fatigue. Shannon Westin: Were you surprised by the results? Dr. Patrick Stone: I honestly went into this with an open mind. I didn't come in with a real fixed agenda that I want to prove that this thing works. In fact, although methylphenidate was being used by some of my colleagues around the country and I know i…

Full show notes at the publisher

Introducing JCO Oncology Advances with Dr. Jonathan Friedberg and Dr. Pamela Kunz May 09, 2024

Show notes

JCO Editor in Chief, Dr. Jonathan Friedberg interviews Dr. Pamela Kunz, Editor in Chief of the new premier open access journal, JCO Oncology Advances. Dr. Friedberg and Dr. Kunz discuss what is to come from the journal and the benefits of an open access journal. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Hello and welcome to another episode of JCO After Hours. I'm your guest host, Jonathan Friedberg, Editor in Chief of JCO, and today we have a very special episode with Pamela Kunz, Associate Professor of Medicine in the Division of Oncology at Yale School of Medicine and Yale Cancer Center. As the new editor in chief of JCO Oncology Advances, she is with us today to share a new opportunity for authors to submit to ASCO's new online open access journal. Pam, welcome. Dr. Pamela Kunz: Thank you. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: I guess my first question to you is, why did you take this role of editor in chief? People have asked me the same question, and I'm still, I think, trying to figure out the answer. So how did you decide to do this? Dr. Pamela Kunz: That's a great question, and I might ask you the same thing. I think as I've gone on in my career, I really like saying I think about what I say yes and no to, and like saying yes to things that I think can make a difference and have real impact. And as a clinical trialist and someone who really hopes to advance the field scientifically, I think it was really exciting to think about helping to craft the future of the science of oncology and to also do it in a way, as we will later talk about open access, but do it in a way that really thinks about a broad audience, because open access really requires us to think about meeting the needs of our audience, as the articles will likely have broader reach. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: So, I mean, I can say I'm very excited about this journal. We do have a number of outstanding papers that we're not able to accept at JCO and knowing that there'll be a good home for these papers is heartwarming for me. Can you tell me a little bit about your vision and goals for this journal? You're really starting with a blank palette. It must be exciting to try to craft what this is going to be about. Dr. Pamela Kunz: It is really exciting. It's a little scary, I'll be honest, to have a blank slate, but I'm appreciative of you and the other editors in chief and staff for helping to provide some guidance. I think that in the beginning, as you were speaking to, there's an opportunity for us to really keep some great science in the JCO family. And so at least early on, we're hoping to really attract and think about publishing some earlier phase trials that may not quite meet the bar of getting published in JCO. So, phase I, phase II trials, even secondary analyses that yield important data from some of the larger phase III trials. This will be an evolution, I think, also. I think that what we may look like this year may look a little bit different in future years, but at least initially, we'll be focusing on some of the earlier phase clinical trials. I'm now framing this around beyond the clinical trial of secondary analyses quality of life, PROs. One thing that's exciting, a new article type will be plain language summaries. So really interpreting the clinical trial for patients and the lay public, I think that's an initial way that we're going to be thinking about it. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: And who do you see as the audience for this journal? Dr. Pamela Kunz: Well, the opportunity that we have with open access is that we really have a much broader audience than we will have had historically with some of the non-open access journals. And I think that means that we have an obligation to be thinking about who that audience is. So, it's a great question. I think our audience will certainly be some of our typical readers, really, the oncology scientific community, but it will likely also be other physicians, primary care physicians, community oncologists, global oncology, and even patients, patient advocacy groups. So, I think that we have to be, as we're crafting and thinking about new article types, those article types, and the content that we create really has to meet the needs of the audience. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: And to that end, I know we've discussed, you had some discussions with your group about brief reports as another article type that is somewhat differentiating for the journal. Dr. Pamela Kunz: Yes, exactly. And I think this also speaks to really trying to attract science that may be earlier in its development. And maybe an author, a team has an idea or a smaller scientific report that they'd like to publish. It may not quite meet the bar for JCO, but maybe we think that this is something that's exciting, that will lead to future studies, and that's exactly what we're hoping to attract. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: And I guess folding into maybe some of the input from your new editor team and editorial board, what features do you look for when reviewing novel research for publishing? How do you decide what gets in and what doesn't? Dr. Pamela Kunz: Well, we are newly open, so this is something that we are also really, as a team, thinking about in real time. And I think that we certainly want JCO Oncology Advances to be the premier open access journal. So, we really still want the bar to be high in terms of high-quality science. As we have crafted and are still building our editorial team and editorial board, we are developing diverse expertise. So, we want content expertise. We have expertise in biostatistics. That's really critically important. So, we still want the biostats to be strong, and we want to ensure that, I think, that the conclusions are still really valid. So, I think really having a bar that's high for the science is still going to be critically important. I think another thing that we may be looking at, again, given that we're looking at earlier phase clinical trials, is really the potential for impact, because, you know this, but JCO will really be publishing the large majority of the randomized clinical trials, and we may be thinking about publishing some of the earlier trials. So potential for impact will be important as well. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Yeah, and I guess that gets into the next question, and I'll give an editorial opinion, I can't resist, I guess, as an editor, on what authors should think about as far as submitting. I really like the way you framed impact, and impact of a manuscript might go beyond changing practice in clinic tomorrow, but an important negative study which changes the way the trials are done in the future, or a preliminary study that leads to important phase II and phase III trials are very impactful for the field. And I guess one of the things I always advise authors is to help the reader and the editor understand what the next step is for their work. That can go in the discussion, it can go in the cover letter, but because of these results, the field should do X, Y, and Z. I think that's a really important thread that the reader should be able to see. I trust you might agree with that. But do you have any other insights for authors as they're preparing manuscripts for this journal that you'd like to share? Dr. Pamela Kunz: That's a great idea, and you just gave me an idea to really maybe formally include that. I think one thing along those lines that we've been thinking about as it relates to our audience is to formally have, even in our manuscripts that aren't formally a lay language or plain language summary, to really have a short section that translates it. And I think translating the science is critically important as we're thinking about bringing in other community members, whether it's patients, patient advocates, primary care physicians, or those who may not be experts in oncology, but are really hoping to learn about the science of oncology. So that's an element that we're thinking of introducing to the manuscripts. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Yeah, I think knowing your audience is critically important. And that said, I think that oncology practitioners are interested in broad topics as long as you can distill it down, it's not only clinical trials. Dr. Pamela Kunz: That's right. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: You've mentioned a couple of times this term, open access, and this has been a real, I think, revolution during a transformational time in publishing. Maybe just for the people who are a little bit less familiar, define that, and what's the potential benefit of an open access Journal? Dr. Pamela Kunz: open access publishing is a way; I think there are both advantages and disadvantages. It's certainly been a trend in oncology publishing. And in fact, I think some of the research that the JCO staff did found that over the last five years, about 30% of manuscripts are now being published via open access. Open access means, practically speaking, that the authors take on an article processing fee. So, there is a charge to the authors. However, the downstream benefit of that, there are benefits to authors, there are benefits broadly to the scientific community, and benefits to society. They sort of fall in those three categories. The benefits to the authors are that there is certainly a chance of higher citations to the scientific community. There's an opportunity for broader scientific dissemination of the science. And then for society, we talked about the audience really shifts when there is open access. There's no paywall for patients or patient advocacy groups or non-oncology providers to get access to the content. I think it is a real paradigm shift, and I think it's both an opportunity, but also as an editor in chief and as the publishing community, we have an obligation to also think very intentionally about where there may be some potential for disparity. So, for example, if there is an article processing fee, we need to be sure that that's not a barrier. And if it is a barrier, is it disproportionately affecting certain populations, like low middle income countries or under or unfunded researchers? So, I hope that we can really be deliberate and thoughtful about that, as we are tracking this. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: I guess just some of the nuts and bolts. I know that you've put a lot of thought into trying to keep the fees as low as possible. And can you just maybe talk about how you've benchmarked them and maybe groups that get discounts? Dr. Pamela Kunz: Yes. So, we are really trying to target a little bit around the median or below. So, we will be very competitive in terms of our peer journals, and in addition, there will be discounts that are really based on World Health Organization standards for low-middle income countries. And we certainly, on a case-by-case basis, can discuss with authors if there are hardships that we need to be aware of. So, I think we really don't want that to be a huge barrier. And I think, and I'd love your thoughts on this, too. I think that with this paradigm shift in publishing, I think there's an obligation for our institutions to really think about how they're going to support authors at their own institutions for this. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Yeah, I agree, and I know that the ranges that you've discussed are certainly in line with many other oncology journals. And to that end, given the number of papers that are being published in this space, I think it speaks to resources being appropriately directed toward that. Dr. Pamela Kunz: Can I ask you a question? Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Sure. Dr. Pamela Kunz: So, because I think this was one of your ideas of really getting this journal started, why was it the right time for JCO to have an open access journal? Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: So, I've been at the job now close to three years, and we take a look at where papers that don't quite meet the bar for JCO go. It's a very interesting analysis, but although JCO has four other journals in the family, each of those journals are fairly specialized with a narrow scope that includes some of what JCO publishes. But I would say in total, only about 15% of the articles that we reject might be appropriate for one of those four journals. So that leaves 85% of the papers finding a home elsewhere outside of the JCO family. So, I think certainly we felt that there were a lot of great papers that we'd like to find a place for in the JCO family. And that was one source. I think the other is an appreciation that I'm still learning about this transformative time in medical publishing. And the old model of people subscribing to a magazine that they get once a month, and what publishing is, is really being turned on its head. People consume content based on a tweet or a link. There's a lot of graphics and video that goes into presenting this content. Funders as well as sponsors of research are really insisting that papers be made available to the broad public immediately, kind of questioning the copyright model and the need for subscription journals. So, I think really getting involved in this space and having a robust open access journal in the ASCO family is a critical direction to go. And based on all of the research that we've done; we really feel it is a great time. Dr. Pamela Kunz: Great. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: One last question for you, as we're kind of leaving the audience with something. So, in addition to those benefits, based on your very early experience working with the ASCO staff and knowing about ways that ASCO and the JCO journals can promote manuscripts, our websites and search functions, what's the hook that people should choose this journal over another oncology open access journal? Dr. Pamela Kunz: Great question. I mean, I think there are a number. Certainly, the JCO brand is strong and really top in the field. And I think that that in and of itself should be a draw for authors. I think that also our link with a professional society, with ASCO, is critically important. And I think that many oncology professionals see ASCO as their professional home. And I think having a journal and a journal family that's really linked with that professional society is important. And you and I have talked about really doing more to really enhance that link with ASCO. And I think that we will be doing that some at the annual meeting this year with promoting JCO Oncology Advances. And I think that also, given that oncology really has become this global community, and ASCO has certainly become a global community, and the spirit and philosophy of open access, I think that really aligns nicely, and I think that it'll help us reach a broader community by having open access. And I think that that's a real advantage for authors. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that as we continue to survey the landscape and come up with new content and areas of new focus like artificial intelligence and machine learning, which has been a big new trend, I think you're going to be able to have access to these cutting-edge manuscripts that will impact the field for sure moving forward. Any last comments for our listeners? Dr. Pamela Kunz: Just to please submit your work. We're open for business, and I'm excited. So, thanks, Dr. Friedberg and to the team. I'm excited for the opportunity and we look forward to our first publications, hopefully, will be out this summer. Dr. Jonathan Friedberg: Well, thank you so much for taking the time and thank you to our listeners. To learn more about JCO Oncology Advances, how to submit, the scope of the journal, just go to ascopubs.org. There's a whole deta…

Full show notes at the publisher

JCO Article Insights: Atezolizumab Plus Bevacizumab, Chemotherapy in EGFR, ALK NSCLC Apr 29, 2024

Show notes

In this JCO Article Insights episode, Rohit Singh provides summary on two articles published in the April 10th issue of the Journal of Clinical Oncology. The first article, "Phase III, Randomized Study of Atezolizumab Plus Bevacizumab and Chemotherapy in Patients With EGFR- or ALK-Mutated Non–Small-Cell Lung Cancer (ATTLAS, KCSG-LU19-04)" describes a randomized, open-label, multicenter, phase III study evaluating the efficacy of atezolizumab plus bevacizumab, paclitaxel, and carboplatin (ABCP ) in EGFR- or ALK-mutated NSCLC that progressed before TKI therapy. The second is the accompanying Oncology Grand Rounds.

TRANSCRIPT

The guest on this podcast episode has no disclosures to declare.

Dr. Rohit Singh: Hello and welcome to JCO Article Insights. I'm your host, Dr. Rohit Singh. Today I will provide a summary of a Phase III, Randomized Study of Atezolizumab Plus Bevacizumab and Chemotherapy in Patients With EGFR- or ALK-Mutated Non–Small-Cell Lung Cancer (ATTLAS, KCSG-LU19-04), by Dr. Park and colleagues from Seoul, Korea. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the efficacy and safety of the ABCP regimen based on IMpower150 in patients with EGFR or ALK mutated non-small cell lung cancer who had progressed on prior targeted treatment.

I will also discuss an Oncology Grand Round case titled "Management of Treatment Resistance in Patients with Advanced EGFR Lung Cancer: Personalization, Parsimony, and Partnership", by Dr. Vallillo and colleagues from Lahey Hospital Medical Center and Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts. Oncology Grand Round cases help us to give a clinical context to the clinical trial.

While TKIs are the established standard of care for non-small cell lung cancer harboring driver mutations, most patients will develop resistance to these treatments. Immune checkpoint inhibitors, with or without chemo, have shown clinical benefits of immune checkpoint monotherapy in patients with EGFR-mutated non-small cell lung cancer. Consequently, platinum-based chemo is the standard of care for patients with EGFR TKI failure. This was a phase III, multicenter, open-label, randomized trial conducted at 16 hospitals across the Republic of Korea. Patients diagnosed with stage four non-small cell lung cancer with sensitizing EGFR mutation or ALK translocation were included in the study. Patients were randomly assigned to the ABCP arm or chemo-only arm in a 2:1 ratio. Eligible patients were stratified on the mutation type (EGFR mutation vs. ALK translocation) and the presence of brain metastasis. No crossover to atezolizumab was permitted.

The recruitment with T790M mutation was capped at 30%. Patients who responded continued to receive maintenance with atezolizumab until disease progression or unacceptable toxicities occurred. If a patient was identified to have an acquired T790M mutation after the failure of a first or second-generation EGFR TKI, the patient had to be treated with a third-generation EGFR TKI before enrollment. The primary endpoint was investigator-assessed objective response rate according to research criteria. The secondary endpoints included overall survival and progression-free survival at one and two years, and the duration of response, along with a safety analysis. Investigators also did an exploratory biomarker analysis based on PD-L1 expression and its correlation with the response. They also analyzed the distribution of tumor-infiltrating lymphocytes, and a cut-off of 20% inflamed score was used to compare the two arms. Overall, 228 patients were enrolled, 154 in the ABCP arm and 74 in the chemo-only arm. Most patients were female at 56.1% and never smokers at 62.7%. Brain metastasis was present in 42.7% of patients. Most patients had previously received EGFR TKI therapy, however, only 8% and 30% received third-generation TKI as first-line therapy in the ABCP arm and chemo-only arm, respectively. The majority of the patients were EGFR at 90%.

The median duration of follow-up for the study population was 26 months. The objective response rate in the ABCP arm was significantly higher at 69.5% compared to 42% in the chemotherapy alone arm. The median PFS was significantly longer in the ABCP arm at 8.48 months versus 5.6 months, and the duration of response was similar at around seven months in both arms. The median overall survival was also similar at around 20 months in both arms, with a hazard ratio of 1.01. In the subgroup of patients with brain metastasis at the time of study enrollment, PFS was significantly longer in the ABCP arm at 8.4 months compared to 4.4 months in the chemotherapy-only arm. In contrast, no difference in PFS was observed in the subgroup without brain metastasis. Regarding EGFR mutation status, there was no difference in PFS or OS between the two arms in the EGFR deletion 19 subgroup. However, a favorable PFS was observed in the EGFR L858R subgroup. For those with acquired EGFR T790M mutation, there was no difference in PFS between groups, whereas a favorable PFS was observed in the subgroup without EGFR T790M mutation.

In the exploratory biomarker analysis, interestingly, the impact on PFS was correlated with PD-L1 expression. The study found that the higher the PD-L1 expression, the better the PFS. In patients with PD-L1 expression of more than 50%, the hazard ratio was 0.24 for PFS. This is an interesting observation. As in previous studies, we have seen that PD-L1 expression does not have a strong association with response to checkpoint inhibitors in patients with driver mutations. Based on the distribution density of tails in the tumor bed, the inflamed score was calculated using artificial intelligence. For patients with 20% of the imflamed score, the ABCP arm has significantly prolonged PFS at 12.9 months compared to 4.8 months. The median number of ABCP treatment cycles was 4, with 12 for atezolizumab and 8 for bevacizumab as maintenance therapy, pemetrexed maintenance was administered for a median of 10 cycles. The incidence of grade 3 or higher side effects was 35.1% in the ABCP arm compared to 15% in the chemotherapy-only arm. Peripheral neuropathy, alopecia, and myalgias were the most prevalent side effects. Interesting notably, 54% of patients in the ABCP arm required treatment interruption or dose modification, and there were three reported deaths in the ABCP arm, two due to pneumonia and one due to cerebral embolic infarction. Around 10 patients or 13.5% of patients in the chemotherapy-only arm required dose interruption or modification.

In conclusion, patients with EGFR-mutated or translocated non-small cell lung cancer who had failed prior TKI ABCP regimen showed a statistically significant prolongation of PFS and response rate compared to chemo alone. Patients in the subgroup with EGFR L858R, without acquired T790M mutation, and presence of brain met showed more benefit. There was no difference in overall survival, though we need more mature data. Adverse events were higher in the ABCP arm. Interestingly, in the exploratory analysis, a high PD-L1 and an inflamed score of more than 20% showed PFS benefits. Though we need to take into consideration that this trial was done and all the patients were grouped from a single country considering Asian ethnicity. And most importantly, the majority of patients were treated with first- and second-generation TKIs, whereas third-generation TKIs are the standard of care in the United States.

Coming to the Oncology Grand Round, in this case, we will discuss the management of treatment resistance in patients with advanced EGFR-mutated lung cancer. A patient with a 20-pack-a-year history of tobacco use presents with weight loss and hip pain, found to have a lung mass, skeletal mets, and brain mets, and was diagnosed with lung adenocarcinoma. The patient goes with palliative radiotherapy for the brain mets. Comprehensive tumor Merkel profiling demonstrated an EGFR mutation exon 19 and alteration P53. The patient was started on third-generation EGFR TKI osimertinib. However, after 17 months, the patient has symptomatic disease progression. Usual approach, if feasible, re-biopsy at the time of progression to evaluate for possible new mutations which can guide treatment options. As mentioned earlier, in the trial, acquired resistance to the TKI is inevitable and heterogeneous. There were various mechanisms which have been proposed regarding resistance, including a second-site EGFR alteration, upregulation of bypass pathway, histological transformation to small cell histology, or suboptimal drug penetration.

There are various approaches after disease progression on EGFR TKI. Combining EGFR-directed therapies to address resistance is an option. Prime results from the MARIPOSA-2 study showed amivantamab plus chemotherapy with or without lazertinib in EGFR-mutated non-small cell lung cancer after disease progression showed a better objective response rate at 64% compared to 36% in the chemo-alone arm. It also showed improved PFS with a median of 6.3 compared to 4.2 in the chemo-alone arm. Combining immune checkpoint inhibitors, EGFR-mutated non-small cell lung, I say has been disappointing in advance of EGFR-mutated non-small cell lung, and combination therapy studies are needed to improve outcomes. Studies, as I discussed ATTLAS, have shown that combining a VEGF inhibitor with ICIs and chemotherapy can lead to a better objective response rate and PFS. However, further clinical trials are needed to figure out the better subgroup of patients who can benefit from this combination.

Should the TKI be continued beyond progression in EGFR-mutated advanced non-small cell lung cancer? Continuing the primary EGFR TKI treatment beyond progression may be considered for patients with indolent or asymptomatic progression or localized progression. We can consider radiation, surgery, or ablation. This approach will potentially delay the need to change systemic therapy in patients. However, for patients with multifocal disease progression requiring chain systemic therapy it may be more beneficial to switch to next-line systemic therapy options like platinum doublet with or without immunotherapy and VEGF inhibitors. In the case presented, the decision was made to continue osimertinib along with platinum doublet, deferring the addition of immunotherapy and VEGF inhibitor. This choice was based on factors like the patient's history of brain metastases and intracranial control. There is also a high risk of toxicity, especially pneumonitis, with immune checkpoint inhibitors after using targeted therapy, the patient showed clinical and radiographic improvement while on this treatment regimen.

The decision to continue or change therapy at cancer progression is based on factors like drug tolerability, patient preferences, and specific subgroups with different outcomes, such as those with brain metastasis or specific EGFR mutation subtypes. Choosing between combination therapy strategies that concept progression involves personalized decision-making to optimize treatment outcomes. Ultimately, the approach to management should be tailored to individual patient needs, preferences, and eligibility for different treatment modalities.

This is Rohit Singh. Thank you for listening to JCO Article Insights. Don't forget to give us a rating or review and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You will find all the ASCO shows at asco.org/podcasts. Thank you.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care, and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions ofASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

Commonly Held Beliefs About Cancer Survivorship Apr 11, 2024

Show notes

Dr. Shannon Westin and her guests, Dr. Emily S. Tonorezos and Dr. Michael Halpern, discuss their article, "Myths and Presumptions About Cancer Survivorship" recently published in the JCO. TRANSCRIPT The guests on this podcast episode have no disclosures to declare. Shannon Westin:Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of JCO After Hours, the podcast where we go in depth on manuscripts published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. I am your host, Social Media Editor of the JCO, Shannon Westin, and also a GYN Oncologist by trade. I'm thrilled to bring a topic that is very close to my heart. We're going to be talking about a Comments and Controversies article published in the JCO on November 16, 2023, entitled "Myths and Presumptions about Cancer Survivorship." I know you all will find this topic as enthralling as I have, and the authors do not have any conflicts of interest. I'm joined by two of the authors on this important work. The first is Dr. Michael Halpern, he's the Medical Officer in the Health Assessment Research Branch of the Health Care Delivery Research Program. Welcome, Dr. Halpern. Dr. Michael Halpern: Thank you for having us on. Shannon Westin: We're also accompanied by Dr. Emily Tonorezos, the Director of the Office of Cancer Survivorship, and both of them work in the Division of Cancer Control and Population Sciences at the National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health. Welcome. Dr. Emily Tonorezos: Thank you for having us. Shannon Westin: So, let's get right into it. I want to level set first. I would love for one or both of you to speak a little bit about the state of cancer survivorship currently. What's the prevalence of cancer survivors here in the US? Globally? What do we expect as time passes? Dr. Emily Tonorezos: Thank you for starting with this question. In the Office of Cancer Survivorship, we use a definition of cancer survivor that we got from the advocacy community many years ago. We use a definition that says "a person is a cancer survivor from the time of diagnosis through the balance of life." That means in the United States, we estimate that we have a little over 18 million cancer survivors, and globally, it's a little more difficult to estimate those numbers. Not every country has a cancer registry to count the number of cases, but we think there are upwards of 53 million cancer survivors diagnosed within the last five years in the world. Shannon Westin: Wow. And so this is why it's so important, such a large number, and that's just an estimate. And we know this is only going to be growing. I personally learned so much from your manuscript, which is critically based on the understanding that our beliefs as practitioners truly impact the way we care for our cancer survivors. I admit, I definitely held or hold some of these beliefs, and I'm certainly grateful that you're providing that objective evidence to support or refute these claims. So, with that being said, let's tackle the first one that you all approached: Shared care results in the best outcomes for cancer survivors. I think first I'd love to hear about what your definition of shared care is. What does that really mean in the context of cancer survivorship? Dr. Michael Halpern: Shared care is a deliberate process to coordinate and integrate components of survivorship care between specialty, in this case, oncology providers, and primary care providers. And part of the issues with this belief about shared care being the best have to do with the broad practice experience of survivorship care. While the ideal definition is this integrated and coordinated care, shared care can range from one extreme to being essentially oncologist-led care - where the oncologist also sends information to the primary care providers; and to the other extreme - care led by primary care providers and an oncologist is available to answer questions as needed. So part of the issue with the available literature is that there is a tremendous range in terms of the definition of shared care that's being used in studies. Shannon Westin: So, understanding those limitations, obviously, based on what you just said, what have we seen in some of the studies that have been exploring shared care and what it might mean for cancer survivors? Dr. Michael Halpern: So there have been some wonderful studies and some very well-done research in shared care. The majority of it indicates essentially no benefits, not any worse, but definitely not any better than other survivorship care models among multiple domains, quality of life, patient preference, clinical outcomes, in some cases, costs. So there isn't at this point a rationale for believing that shared care leads to better outcomes than does other types of models of care. And that's not to say that we don't think that shared care is a valuable model, that it's potentially very useful and beneficial for certain groups of cancer survivors. It's just that at this point, we don't have evidence to say who it is going to have optimal outcomes for compared to other kinds of survivorship care models. Shannon Westin: And that makes sense. I mean, I think we're seeing this over and over again in all aspects of cancer care that one broad stroke or one broad plan isn't right for everybody, whether that's therapeutic or surgical or prevention, so it makes sense to me that that's what we're seeing here in survivorship as well. So I see this manuscript as a call to action about what are we missing, what data do we need to generate to really be able to move this care forward. So that makes total sense to me. And I guess in line with that, another belief, and I've heard this all the time from my patients, too, is this idea that primary care providers feel unable to provide survivorship care. They're not comfortable. "Oh, you have a diagnosis of cancer. You have to be seen there at the cancer center." What does our evidence demonstrate here? Dr. Emily Tonorezos: This is another belief that was found to be a presumption. So that means that this is a belief that we think was true, but which convincing evidence does not confirm or disprove. So what the available evidence tells us is that primary care providers do have challenges in taking care of cancer survivors, particularly with regards to certain cancer-related care needs. But at the same time, we found lots of evidence that primary care providers are more than willing and able to take care of cancer survivors. They express confidence in their skills. They think that they are capable of taking care of cancer survivors. And especially for survivors of more common cancers, primary care providers, in general, express a lot of confidence in their ability to take care of those patients. What they might lack could be things along the lines of survivorship-specific knowledge. So that is a gap that we identified. But this idea that primary care feels unable to take care of survivors really was not supported by the evidence. Shannon Westin: I mean, and that makes sense, right? If we're seeing more and more cancer survivors, primary care is going to adapt to that. We adapt to the things we see commonly in our clinics, and that goes across all specialties. So that certainly makes sense. I guess you've already kind of said this, and I'll just highlight it for the listeners. You know, clear guidelines seem to be a clear, nice option to potentially improve this situation. So let's discuss this next myth that you all identified, that oncology providers are hesitant to transition survivors to primary care. Now, I understand this one because I definitely, we get this a lot, and I'm a center medical director in GYN, and we've definitely tried to put patients that are free of disease out back in the community to be able to free up space for other patients. And we definitely get pushback because seeing patients that are in this state of being free of disease and they're living their life, it's inspiring. We remember why it is we're doing the things we do. What did the data show us about this myth? And are we creating barriers to this transition to survivorship care outside of the oncology centers? Dr. Emily Tonorezos: Exactly. So this belief is a myth. We found evidence that this belief is not true, and it seems to be one of those things that feels true, that oncologists want to take care of cancer survivors, that it contributes to the joy of medicine. But that evidence really does not suggest that that's the case. In fact, the opposite is true in the evidence. We found when we looked at the available research Oncologists want to take care of people who are diagnosed with cancer and need treatment. That is really what they think their role is. That's what they feel they're contributing. And so, even though there is a pleasure in seeing a person who has finished treatment, most oncologists say that the amount of time that they spend taking care of people who are done with treatment is appropriate - meaning they're not looking to expand their panel of post-treatment patients. They really want to take care of people who need treatment currently and then perhaps have a little bit mixed in of people who are done with treatment or who are in that survivorship phase. We found a lot of evidence, also hard evidence, that oncologists are, in fact, transitioning survivors to primary care. There is a lot of evidence that people who have been diagnosed with cancer are being seen in primary care and that that proportion increases over time. So if oncologists were really creating these insurmountable barriers to transition to primary care, we would not be seeing so many survivors in the primary care setting. But the fact is they're there, and they are being moved there by their providers. Shannon Westin: I love hard evidence. I do have a few patients that have said, "Can I just come see you every once in a while?" And I love seeing them, but I agree, we can't fill our panels with that. So that makes good sense. So the next topic centers around finances, and this is the idea that survivorship clinics lose money. What truth did you all discover here regarding reimbursement for this type of care? Dr. Michael Halpern: We discovered that this is a presumption. It's a belief that there isn't compelling evidence one way or the other. Part of the issue with this is probably some confusion about what constitutes survivorship care. There are certainly difficulties in obtaining reimbursement for certain survivorship services, such as sexual health and fertility counseling, and wellness and exercise services. It's understandable that there may be problems getting reimbursement or appropriate reimbursement for those. But when looking at overall survivorship care, there are actually very few studies that have done a financial analysis of the cost of providing that care versus the reimbursement. And those that have done more detailed analyses generally show that the reimbursement for survivorship care is greater than the cost. Survivorship care clinics actually do break even or make money. Now, it's also true that providing survivorship care likely doesn't provide the same level of reimbursement as providing oncology treatments, which involves administering systemic agents and different kinds of imaging or diagnostic procedures. And so there are other streams of reimbursement possible for that. But overall, there really isn't compelling evidence to indicate that survivorship clinics lose money. There is a concern that having this widespread belief that they do may be a disincentive for hospitals or healthcare systems to start different kinds of survivorship clinics. Shannon Westin: I think this is an area where it would really behoove us to do more work so that we can encourage institutions to do this. And, I know in our center, the things that you're mentioning, it's exactly like the problems that these people are having around sexual health and fertility and exercise, wellness in general, I mean, those are the soft things that I feel like it's harder to kind of gain momentum to really develop established programs that really make an impact. And so I was so glad to see that you mentioned that in this paper, and I hope it will encourage people to really move that forward. So finally, I was interested in this presumption around the shared electronic health records and how that might help with survivorship care coordination. Is this our solution for smooth communication and care of these people? Dr. Emily Tonorezos: This one was actually almost something that's sort of funny to think about, how naive we were about electronic health records. We found a number of examples from five or ten years ago where leaders in survivorship research and clinical care were saying, "Well, once we have electronic health records, we will not have these same problems of care coordination or communication." And that has just not been true, unfortunately. So this one was also a presumption, meaning the evidence of a benefit for electronic health records just was not out there. So we know that consolidation and transfer of diagnostic and treatment information can increase knowledge. So you can show that you can increase knowledge about diagnosis and treatment with a shared electronic health record. So the primary care provider is able to look, for example, at the pathology from the original diagnosis. But whether that actually results in anything in terms of improved care is an open question. Shannon Westin:I think that's what we've learned a lot about electronic health records in general. I remember when we were transitioning to our new system, and everyone thought, "Oh, this is going to be the end all, be all." And it has been good in a lot of ways, but it certainly hasn't been the cure for everything that ails us. Well, I'm just so thrilled. Thank you all so much. This has been really educational and so important, given what we've already talked about, about the increasing population of cancer survivors that we're seeing in the clinic and globally. I think just to kind of tie a bow on it, I would just love to hear each of your bottom lines regarding kind of where we are right now with the care of our cancer survivors and what we need to be addressing maybe in the short term to move things forward. Dr. Emily Tonorezos: So I'll go first. I just want to say it's really important, I think, when we are around other investigators and in our meetings and talking about clinical care, that we think critically about the things that we hear people saying. This idea, especially the one that oncology providers don't want to transition their survivors to primary care, but the others as well. I think the way that we need to address this or carry this forward is to just be aware when we're in those settings and we hear people say things, to ask the question, "Is that really supported by the evidence?" And you may find that there are even more of these commonly held beliefs that really aren't supported by the evidence or that deserve a little bit of a deeper dive. Dr. Michael Halpern: I very much agree with that. And it's critical that we be willing to question some of these beliefs, be willing to discuss them, and not accept them as facts in order to be able to develop new research programs, hypotheses, to explore really what can help produce the best outcomes for survivors, because that's really what we're all about. The other bottom-line issue, I think, one, Dr. Westing that you brought up, is that survivorship isn…

Full show notes at the publisher

Our TOPPODCAST Picks

Follow Us

Stay Connected

Journal of Clinical Oncology (JCO) Podcast

Related Podcasts

Links

Stay Connected