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Interchange Recharged

Clean tech, green finance and energy innovation are the three lanes on the road to a successful global energy transition. At the intersection of these lanes is a place where ideas on finance, technology and policy are shared and debated. That intersection is Interchange Recharged.

Your host is Sylvia Leyva Martinez, principal analyst and research director at Wood Mackenzie. When Sylvia isn’t tracking the technologies and markets driving the build-out of renewable power, she’s speaking with visionaries, entrepreneurs, policy-makers and energy analysts to explore the newest developments in renewable technology, explain the ideas on global energy policy that could accelerate the energy transition, and identify new funding and financial models that could solve the biggest challenges we face on the way to net zero.

Sylvia and her guests bring you data and forecasts on clean technology, climate science, and offer predictions on the build out of utility-scale projects and the future of green finance.

What does the surge in data-centre demand mean for the grid, and who pays for it? What’s happening in global EV adoption and development? What’s the forecast for solar, one of the major success stories of renewable energy in the last ten years? What does the data tell us about the future of hydrogen, of nuclear, or of low-carbon power? These are examples of the insights and detailed analyses you can expect bi-weekly on Tuesdays at 7am ET.

If you like The Energy Transition Show, Catalyst with Shayle Kann, The Big Switch from Columbia University, Open Circuit with Jigar Shah or The Green Blueprint, you’ll enjoy Interchange Recharged.

Want to get involved with the show? Reach out to podcasts@woodmac.com to:

Bring Bridget and Interchange Recharged to your event

Be a guest on the show

Sponsor an episode

Ask a question to Bridget or one of our guests

Check out another leading clean tech global podcast by Wood Mackenzie, Energy Gang, at woodmac.com/podcasts/the-energy-gang

Wood Mackenzie is the leading global data and analytics solutions provider for renewables, energy and natural resources. Learn more about Wood Mackenzie on the official website: https://www.woodmac.com/

Copyright: © All rights reserved

Latest Episodes:

What Does a 'Just Transition' Look Like? (Rebroadcast) Aug 18, 2021

Show notes

We use the term “energy transition” to define markets, technology, business models. But what about people?

The transition away from fossil fuels isn’t a nice-to-have. It’s a must-have. The hardest part isn’t building out the clean resources. It’s shutting down the dirty stuff at a pace the science demands. And that means disrupting entire classes of employment and communities that depend on fossil fuel extraction — in other words, helping people find work in another sector. The phrase often used to describe this approach is “just transition.”

We have a guest who’s been researching and writing about this subject for years: Sandeep Pai.

Sandeep is the co-author of Total Transition: The Human Side of the Renewable Energy Revolution. He’s a former journalist and a senior research lead for the energy security and climate change program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)

We’ll talk with Sandeep about his analysis of the strategies for transitioning fossil fuel workers in economies around the world.

This episode originally aired in June of 2020.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Big Moment for Carbon Accounting Aug 13, 2021

Show notes

Carbon accounting and disclosure is getting attention at the highest levels.

Gary Gensler, the chairman of the SEC, said in July: "I think updates to public company disclosures and to fund disclosures [on climate] could bring needed transparency to our capital markets. When it comes to disclosure, investors have told us what they want. It’s now time for the Commission to take the baton."

Gensler directed SEC staff to pull together a rulemaking proposal on mandatory corporate climate risk disclosure by the end of this year. It could be a watershed action, so to speak.

The world of enterprise carbon accounting, management and disclosure has been garnering a lot of attention, particularly in Silicon Valley circles. It’s a sexy sector. But it's also an early one -- carbon accounting has seen limited adoption to date, and in its current form is often led by consultants doing pretty high-level annual surveys.

Will this become the next big enterprise software vertical, and maybe the first truly at-scale software sector in climate tech?

Shayle is joined by Taylor Francis, co-founder of Watershed, one of the most well-regarded emergent players in this enterprise carbon management sector.

Taylor and his founding team spun out of Stripe, where they were building internal tools, to help other companies follow suit. They've since raised capital from Sequoia and Kleiner Perkins, along with the co-founders of Stripe themselves.

Taylor has a really thoughtful approach to this market and what companies are going to need as they enter the quickly-evolving world of enterprise carbon management.

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Crypto vs Climate Showdown Aug 06, 2021

Show notes

In the great debate over crypto mining vs. climate, there are two camps.

First, the crypto enthusiasts, like Square, say things like, "Bitcoin is key to an abundant, clean energy future".

And then there are the energy wonks, who point out that, if bitcoin mining were a country, it would already be in the top 30 for total energy consumption, rivaling Ukraine.

The energy camp tends to dismiss the crypto enthusiasts’ thinking. They’re skeptical of how crypto mines could be assets to a decarbonizing grid, rather than a strain on it.

So to cut through the noise, Shayle spoke to Nick Grossman, a partner at the respected venture capital firm Union Square Ventures. USV was the largest early investor in Coinbase, which currently has a $49B market capitalization. But USV has gone big on climate tech and raised a specific climate fund. Nick straddles both the crypto and climate worlds, so he's the perfect person to help me make some sense out of this madness.

Nick and Shayle break down the basics of crypto currencies as energy-backed assets. They examine the argument that crypto mines improve the economics of renewables, because they will always be willing to buy cheap renewable power. This, in turn, helps to finance the overbuilding of renewable projects to help meet peak demand, or so the thinking goes.

But do intermittent renewables improve the economics of crypto mines? In other words: Is it profitable to mine intermittently?

They also discuss green bitcoin certificates and alternatives to the energy-intensive proof-of-work crypto security model: proof of stake, proof of space-time, and proof of location

And they evaluate Shayle’s (surely serious) startup pitch to match crypto mines with seasonal renewables: put the mines on barges and shuttle them back and forth between renewable projects in the northern and southern hemispheres.

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Form Energy Unveils Its Iron-Air Battery Jul 30, 2021

Show notes

Back in 2016, Mateo Jaramillo left Tesla, where he was leading the stationary energy storage business, and started looking for a new challenge to tackle. He took on long-duration energy storage -- not long duration like 8 hours or 12 hours, but days or weeks or more. In 2017 he came on the show to talk about it.

He formed a company, now Form Energy, that has been toiling on this problem in stealth mode. Apart from saying they were building a "metal air" battery, his team held the technology close to the vest.

That is, until last week.

The company announced a $200M Series D financing led by ArcelorMittal, the world's largest steelmaker, and in the process finally made public the technology, which is an iron air chemistry.

Full disclosure: Shayle led Energy Impact Partners’ investment in Form.

Shayle and Mateo discuss the technology itself and the counterintuitive economics that Mateo believes will make it work. They also examine how it beat out the alternatives and how it might complement more efficient, but more expensive lithium-ion. It turns out financial modeling was far more important than spec sheets in understanding the tradeoffs.

They tackle the critical question: Where exactly are the profitable applications of this technology before we hit very high 80% renewables?

They also talk about the semantics of long-duration storage vs. multi-day storage, why Mateo hates holy grails, and potential partnerships with tofu companies.

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How Biden's Clean Electricity Standard Might Work Jul 22, 2021

Show notes

This week, we’ll take a peek at the news. Last week, president Biden unveiled his administration's plan for a $3.5 trillion infrastructure plan which the democrats hope to pass through reconciliation. While the details are still sparse, we do know that one of the linchpins of the Biden administration's climate strategy -- a national clean electricity standard (CES) -- is included in the plan.

It's a big deal. If you care about the power sector, a national CES might be the most impactful piece of legislation affecting it in decades. If you care about decarbonization, almost every pathway drives directly through a decarbonized power sector combined with large-scale electrification of other sectors such as transportation, industry and heating.

But the details are still being worked out, and there’s a labyrinth of parliamentary rules that a CES would have to navigate to make it through the US Senate’s budget reconciliation process.

To shine a light on the process and what a CES could look like, Shayle turns to Jesse Jenkins, an energy modeling expert at Princeton who is helping to design the policy in the bill.

Shayle and Jesse talk about the differences between a Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) and a CES, crafting a CES through the budget instead of regulation, the role that technology-neutral tax credits could play in the bill, the funds and penalties utilities might face, and how to get the incentives right for the energy transition given the limitations of reconciliation. Helpful links:

E&E News: Payments or fines: How Dems’ CES would affect utilities
Jesse’s Twitter thread on designing a CES for the budget, rather than regulation
Evergreen Action’s explainer on a CES: Everything You Need to Know About a Clean Electricity Standard

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Price is Right: Deep Decarbonization Edition Jul 15, 2021

Show notes

In this episode, we’re measuring the energy transition -- using “Price is Right” rules.

Our former co-host Stephen Lacey is back on the show to face off against our current host, Shayle Kann. Producer Daniel Woldorff steps in as arbiter.

We’ll guess stats and trivia about climate tech, and discuss what those figures mean for the energy transition. They cover the MSRPs of popular EVs, the cheapest PPA in the world, carbon prices, carbon capture investments, industrial materials and more.

Who won?* Have a listen to find out!

*Note: Our producer Daniel miscounted the score. It didn’t affect who won, but he’s going back to math classes to relearn how to count.

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Where Are Elon's Solar Roofs? Jul 09, 2021

Show notes

Elon Musk’s magic is making huge promises to transform a tech sector -- and then, after a series of setbacks, ultimately deliver.

But the Solar Roof never delivered on its promise of chic, affordable solar-power generating roof shingles, as Dana Hall’s recent article in Bloomberg lays out.

Today, there are some solar roofs on homes. The Gigafactory that was meant to churn them out in Buffalo, New York is humming along, but not nearly at the 1,000 Solar Roofs per week that Tesla was originally aiming for. In the meantime, the company has raised prices on customers, fired a number of executives, and faced a shareholder lawsuit in which the Solar Roof played a central role.

So how did Tesla get here?

We’re re-running one of our favorite episodes, a conversation with Austin Carr of Bloomberg about Tesla’s solar woes. It’s from back in June 2019.

We’ll look at the history of SolarCity/Tesla’s manufacturing plans, the derailed plans for the solar roof, and how current manufacturing activity compares with Tesla’s promises to New York.

Read Austin’s reporting on Tesla’s solar business:

Bloomberg: Did Elon Musk Forget About Buffalo?
Fast Company: The Real Story Behind Tesla’s Acquisition of SolarCity

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The New ‘Valleys of Death’ in Climate Investing Jul 01, 2021

Show notes

There were about eight years when climate tech was wandering in the wilderness, so to speak. It started after the Solyndra bankruptcy in 2011 and ended about two years ago, when the market began heating up again.

During that time, people in this space examined the valleys of death. What are the stages in a climate tech company’s life cycle that might be painful -- or even fatal -- to go through? And what resources can a company draw upon to cross these valleys?

To tackle those questions, Shayle spoke to Amy Duffuor, a principal at PRIME Impact Fund, which is set up specifically to help startups cross that chasm (Shayle is on PRIME's investor advisory council).

Amy and Shayle name the four major valleys, drawing on Hara Wang and Cyril Yee’s RMI article, “Climate Tech’s Four Valleys of Death and Why We Must Build a Bridge.” Then, they compare the climate tech world of today to 2014, a low point in the space when the Prime Coalition was started, examining some of the biggest changes:

The influx of generalist investors
The maturing ecosystem of incubators, accelerators and funds that provide support at multiple stages in a startup’s path to growth
The explosion of corporate commitments, reflecting the growing demand for climate action from consumers, investors and the general public
The growing options for exit, such as SPACs and M&As, that are making it easier for entrepreneurs to raise more money, faster

Finally, they look toward 2025 and ask: How might the valleys of death shift in the future?

The Interchange is brought to you by Hitachi ABB Power Grids. Are you building a renewable plant? Looking for a battery energy storage system? Thinking about how to integrate renewables to your grid? Hitachi ABB Power Grids is your choice.

The Interchange is brought to you by LONGi Solar, the world’s leading solar technology company. A global market leader, LONGi has unmatched bankability, quality and performance validated by third-party laboratories, and has breakthrough innovation at both the wafer and module level.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Where Are the Gaps in Climate Tech? Jun 25, 2021

Show notes

We spend most of our time on this show talking about what's happening in climate tech. What technologies, business models, and markets are being developed? By whom? And how much impact will they ultimately have on decarbonization?

But there's an equally interesting topic. What isn't happening? In other words, where is the white space? What areas, technologies, or markets need more attention?

The mandate of a new non-profit called Actuate is to identify and fill gaps across multiple areas, including climate. They focus on R&D, using a model similar to the US federal government’s DARPA or ARPA-e programs.

Today, Shayle talks to Actuate’s Director of Climate Lara Pierpoint. Prior to actuate she led the Technology Strategy team at Exelon. She's also worked at the US Department of Energy and has a PhD from MIT in engineering systems.

Shayle and Lara talk about:

Demand response, an example of one type of gap where we have the technology but don’t know how to use it yet.
Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs), a type of nuclear technology used to power spacecraft -- that could also be used planetside as low-density, always on-batteries.
The exorbitant costs of laying of wires, a potential cost saver for nuclear plants and other power projects.
High-temperature superconductors (HTS) that could act like high-capacity transmission built at distribution scale. For example: VEIR.
Sensors and the surprisingly high error bars of many country-level emissions measurements
Storage and competing against transmission, demand response and overbuilding renewables to solve renewable intermittency
Oh, and cows. They talk about burp-catching masks and improving the profitability of forests.

The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets at sgsderms.com/interchange.

The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How A.I. Will Revolutionize Climate Tech Jun 17, 2021

Show notes

The array of AI applications within climate tech is staggering -- and rapidly expanding.

There are lots of exciting point solutions, but there’s no clear example of AI directly and meaningfully reducing GHG emissions on a global scale. Yet.

Last year we had Priya Donti on the show. She’s a PhD student at Carnegie Mellon and co-chair of the Climate Change AI organization. This week, she came back with her Climate Change AI co-chair Lynn Kaack, a postdoc researcher at ETH-Zurich.

Priya and Lynn were co-authors on a blockbuster paper on the topic back in June 2019, called “Tackling climate change with machine learning.”

They came back on the show to talk about what has changed since that episode -- both the progress and the bottlenecks in applying AI to climate change.

They detail the strengths and weaknesses of AI in climate technology using a few case studies:

Optimizing power and heating/cooling systems
Insight into large bodies of data, such as analyzing the physical and transition risk to a company’s assets
Accelerating technology innovation

They also discuss the organizational approaches to AI: Do you go vertical or horizontal? That is, do you hire AI practitioners to work within an organization with deep domain experience, such as a utility, or is it more effective to leave those challenges to an organization of AI generalists who work across many fields?

Lynn points out there’s a third way: spinning up an AI group within an organization.

The Interchange is brought to you by Smarter Grid Solutions, a leading enterprise energy management software company. Find out how Smarter Grid Solutions’ software can give you real control over your clean energy assets at sgsderms.com/interchange.

The Interchange is brought to you by Enel X, a leader in energy storage, DER management software, and smart electric vehicle charging stations to increase project value. Learn what Enel X can do for your business.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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