IndoctriNation

Latest Episodes:

Raised on Avatar w/Dimitri Mar 31, 2021

Show notes

This week's guest Dimitri is the son of our previous guest Ariela Sarai. He was introduced to the cultic environment of Avatar courses by his mother at just 8 years old. He grew up heavily involved in the teachings of the group, eventually becoming a teacher of the courses himself at only 12 years old. After leaving college to help his mother through a difficult time, he got his real estate license, became a top salesman, and is now pursuing his passion as a freelance artist. In this conversation, Daniel shares his unique perspective on growing up with Avatar courses and explains how it has impacted his upbringing. Rachel points out the similarities found between Avatar and Scientology, including the group's intolerance of being questioned and the accusations that followers experience when speaking out. Before You Go; Rachel dives deeper into how controlling groups often assign a negative intention to an action of their followers that has no real correlation. She explains how the questioning of one's motivations can lead to self-doubt and allow manipulators to affect your inner narrative. We'd like to give a huge thank you to Julie Tamler for their generous donation through Patreon! Thanks so much for helping us keep going! We appreciate all of our amazing patrons! To help support the show, monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION
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Micro-Compromises of Integrity w/Ariela Sarai Mar 24, 2021

Show notes

Micro-Compromises of Integrity w/Ariela Sarai After graduating from Columbia University, Ariela spent almost two years in India, first volunteering for Mother Teresa then studying Tibetan Buddhism. When she returned she got an MSW from the University of Pennsylvania. She worked as a therapist in prisons, hospitals, foster homes, and hospices. Then she established a Private Practice where she supported people who were focused on personal growth. In the year 2000, she was introduced to an international self-development course called Avatar. She had recently gotten divorced and was struggling with emotions and anxiety. She eventually decided to teach the course and also brought in many new students. She moved up the ranks. Gradually she began to get exhausted and depleted emotionally and financially. She stopped prioritizing family and friends. She was devoted to Avatar for 21 years. When Covid hit, courses stopped for a little while. She got to feel what it was like to be rested, to be home, to have more time with her boyfriend. She had a break from the treatment she had been getting. She thought things might be improving so she was part of the team that transferred the courses Online. But then she started to experience the same way of being talked to and pressured and felt controlled again. Only this time she could feel the impact it had on her. In November she finally realized that she was actually involved in a cultic environment. She had sacrificed everything for this group. As soon as she really got this, she had one consultation with a therapist, made an exit plan, and less than 24 hours later she left. In Part 2 of Ariela's conversation with Rachel, she describes her inner dialogue as she began to realize the manipulative and controlling tactics Avatar used to keep her devoted for over 20 years. Ariela walks us through her journey of leaving the group, how she summoned the courage to take back control of her life and what she has done to start her healing process. Before You Go: Rachel explains how high control groups can often stay under the radar of the public for long periods of time and the methods they employ to achieve secrecy through intimidation of their members and former members. Thanks to our newest Patrons: Lauren Fox, Iselle Flores, Olli-Pekka Mahrberg, Alan Coogan, and Jeanette Ojala!! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Behind The Avatar w/Ariela Sarai Mar 17, 2021

Show notes

After graduating from Columbia University, Ariela spent almost two years in India, first volunteering for Mother Teresa then studying Tibetan Buddhism. When she returned she got an MSW from the University of Pennsylvania. She worked as a therapist in prisons, hospitals, foster homes, and hospices. Then she established a Private Practice where she supported people who were focused on personal growth. In the year 2000, she was introduced to an international self-development course called Avatar. She had recently gotten divorced and was struggling with emotions and anxiety. She eventually decided to teach the course and also brought in many new students. She moved up the ranks. Gradually she began to get exhausted and depleted emotionally and financially. She stopped prioritizing family and friends. She was devoted to Avatar for 21 years. When Covid hit, courses stopped for a little while. She got to feel what it was like to be rested, to be home, to have more time with her boyfriend. She had a break from the treatment she had been getting. She thought things might be improving so she was part of the team that transferred the courses Online. But then she started to experience the same way of being talked to and pressured and felt controlled again. Only this time she could feel the impact it had on her. In November she finally realized that she was actually involved in a cultic environment. She had sacrificed everything for this group. As soon as she really got this, she had one consultation with a therapist, made an exit plan, and less than 24 hours later she left. In Part 1 of Ariela's conversation with Rachel, she explains how she first got involved in Avatar, why she thinks it consumed her life for so long, and she shares her feelings of regret about putting the group before everything else in her life, even her family. Rachel explains some of the methods high control groups use to keep people deeply devoted for long periods of time. Before You Go: Rachel examines why fulfilling the simple human need of intently listening to someone can be weaponized by high control groups in order to foster a false sense of trust, only to manipulate the victim into a deep and unwavering devotion. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Sophie Sartain! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Therapy without Boundaries w/Jonathan Mar 10, 2021

Show notes

When today's guest Jonathan was 15, he felt lost, alone, and unable to voice the feelings and thoughts that were troubling him. The domestic roles he was fulfilling as a young man and full-time student, including caring for his ill mother while navigating his parent's divorce, eventually led to him seeking help from a therapist. This therapist gained Jonathan's trust by appearing to understand and relate to him. Jonathan did not have the experience to know that the healthy boundaries of a therapeutic relationship were never actually there. From the beginning, this therapist used Jonathan's vulnerabilities to manipulate his emotions, and to control his relationships with his family and friends in order to isolate him and then insert himself and his wife into those roles. After 11 years of being manipulated, even being made to feel responsible for his therapist's life and personal needs, Jonathan was able to find a way out. In this second part of Rachel's conversation with Jonathan, he continues his emotional and powerful story of being trapped in a long-term abusive relationship with a controlling therapist and his wife. Rachel and Jonathan discuss the significant red flags of this relationship including the therapists' lack of professional boundaries and expectations of secrecy. Jonathan takes us through his mindstate as he finally reaches his breaking point and escapes the torturous relationship after more than a decade. Before You Go: Rachel explains why manipulators will often do everything possible to keep their victims' doubt at bay. She explains the importance of doubt as a safety net that can be key to maintaining healthy critical thinking skills that can illuminate the path to freedom from their control. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Sarah! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Manipulative Therapy w/ Jonathan Mar 03, 2021

Show notes

When today's guest Jonathan was 15, he felt lost, alone, and unable to voice the feelings and thoughts that were troubling him. The domestic roles he was fulfilling as a young man and full-time student, including caring for his ill mother while navigating his parent's divorce, eventually led to him seeking help from a therapist. This therapist gained Jonathan's trust by appearing to understand and relate to him. Jonathan did not have the experience to know that the healthy boundaries of a therapeutic relationship were never actually there. From the beginning, this therapist used Jonathan's vulnerabilities to manipulate his emotions, and to control his relationships with his family and friends in order to isolate him and then insert himself and his wife into those roles. After 11 years of being manipulated, even being made to feel responsible for his therapist's life and personal needs, Jonathan was able to find a way out. Today, for the first time anywhere, Jonathan bravely shares his story in order to help others. He wants people to know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Along the way, Rachel provides some important insights on how to recognize the dangers of an unhealthy therapeutic relationship and how to better protect yourself from manipulation. Before You Go: Rachel further examines the dangers of therapists who blur the lines of client/therapist boundaries. She explains the common tactics that narcissistic therapists often employ and the damage that they can cause to their clients. If you have experienced an unhealthy relationship with a therapist and would like to be in touch, Jonathan has kindly offered to communicate with you via email to provide insight from his experience in order to help others heal. You can reach out to him at: connectwithjonathan2021@gmail.com To hear more of Rachel's tips on how to recognize an unhealthy therapeutic relationship check out her video here: https://youtu.be/EEBo_Z2VTqE Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Karin Levitas and Lisa Maria Martin! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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In between Knowledge and Mystery w/Daniel Ice Feb 24, 2021

Show notes

Daniel is an entrepreneur and was raised inside the church. His journey into understanding the nature of fraud and its application to religion started when he was excommunicated from his church for exposing sexual abuse. This has led him to ask the hard questions around his most deeply held beliefs. He has found healing through conversations around faith and abuse. He shares very personal stories with the hope that it will help others to find strength and healing. Rachel and Daniel have a wide-ranging discussion examining the logic behind the ideology of creationism. Daniel points out the common misconceptions of biblical literalism and by extension highlights the presuppositions that lead to vastly different interpretations of the biblical texts. Daniel explains why often in the most divisive issues the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He also expands on why difficult and honest conversations are key to unifying the most divided factions in both religion and politics. Before You Go: Rachel revisits Daniel's idea that religion is a sense-making apparatus. She examines the most important sense-making mechanism, the question, "Why?" Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Adrienne Martasin, Virginia Smith, and Adam Arnold! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Behind Heaven's Gate: Examining a Tragedy Feb 17, 2021

Show notes

In a special episode, this week Rachel speaks about Heaven's Gate, the UFO religious cult based near San Diego, California. Founded in 1974. Rachel provides some background on the group's leaders Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles and their teachings. She explains the importance in our times specifically of remembering the tragedy of the group's ritual suicide. In March 1997, 18 women and 21 men drank a lethal mixture of phenobarbital and vodka and then laid down to die, hoping to leave their "bodily containers', and enter an alien spacecraft. Rachel considers the mindstate of these lost individuals by examining their "Exit Statements". These statements were recorded directly before the suicides in an attempt to explain the motivations behind their actions to the public. These videos, while often disturbing, provide an intimate insight into the psyche of seemingly intelligent and logical people who have been so fully indoctrinated that they can plainly and fully justify their extreme actions. Rachel provides an analysis of the deep-seated issues, vulnerabilities, and tragic misinterpretations of the victims as well as the leaders that ultimately lead to their untimely demise. CONTENT WARNING: SUICIDE Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Paul Canchester, Sarah G. and Ellen Perreira To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Collective Disassociation w/ Dan Shaw Feb 10, 2021

Show notes

Dan Shaw is a licensed clinical social worker and a psychoanalyst in private practice in New York City and in Nyack New York. He was originally trained as an actor at Northwestern University with the renowned teacher Uta Hagen in New York City. Dan later worked as a missionary for an Indian guru. His eventual recognition of cultic aspects of his organization led him to become an outspoken activist in support of individuals and families. Traumatically abused in cults, simultaneous with leaving this group, Dan began his training in the mental health profession becoming a faculty member and supervisor at the National Institute for the Psychotherapies in New York publishing papers on psychoanalytic inquiry, contemporary psychoanalysis, and psychoanalytic dialogues and most recently published his book, Traumatic Narcissism, Relational Systems of Subjugation for the relational perspective series, which was nominated for the distinguished Gradiva Award in 2018, the International Cultic Studies Association awarded him the Margaret Thaler Singer Award for advancing the understanding of coercive persuasion and undue influence. Dan's book, Traumatic Narcissism and Recovery, Leaving the Prison of Shame and Fear, will be published by Routledge in 2021. Dan and Rachel discuss how the collective disassociation of the U.S. from its own brutal origins has shaped the current political landscape and is in fact a case of "history not remembered is repeated" They consider possible solutions by utilizing early education and collaborative de-radicalization. Dan provides his analysis of the roots of the sociological issues in the country that have led to tragic events such as the Capitol Insurrection. Before You Go: Rachel explains the dangers of under-educating citizens about the historical abuses perpetrated by systems of control. She describes the part of human nature that can ultimately lead to a cyclical repetition of historical tragedies. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Ron Mortenson, Katherine Matheson, Sarah Wood, and Marlene Pine Help us continue the show at: https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination
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Traumatic Narcissism in Politics w/ Dan Shaw Feb 03, 2021

Show notes

Dan Shaw is a licensed clinical social worker and a psychoanalyst in private practice in New York City and in Nyack New York. He was originally trained as an actor at Northwestern University with the renowned teacher Uta Hagen in New York City. Dan later worked as a missionary for an Indian guru. His eventual recognition of cultic aspects of his organization led him to become an outspoken activist in support of individuals and families. Traumatically abused in cults, simultaneous with leaving this group, Dan began his training in the mental health profession becoming a faculty member and supervisor at the National Institute for the Psychotherapies in New York publishing papers on psychoanalytic inquiry, contemporary psychoanalysis, and psychoanalytic dialogues and most recently publishing his book, Traumatic Narcissism, Relational Systems of Subjugation for the relational perspective series, which was nominated for the distinguished Gradiva Award in 2018, the International Cultic Studies Association awarded him the Margaret Thaler Singer Award for advancing the understanding of coercive persuasion and undue influence. Dan's book, Traumatic Narcissism and Recovery, Leaving the Prison of Shame and Fear, will be published by Routledge in 2021. Dan and Rachel discuss the current U.S. political landscape as it relates to traumatic narcissism. They go in-depth on the delusion of the current conspiracy theories that are a result in part of the political indoctrination created by malignant narcissists in power. Before You Go: Rachel discusses the destructive potential inherent when narcissists gain significant political power. She continues by expanding on Dan's idea of invisible mania as it relates to political extremists such as Qanon supporters. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Evanne Heath and Muriel Barton! To help support the show and get cool benefits like bonus content and merchandise, please become a patron at https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination Already a patron? Follow this link to learn how to upgrade your tier on Patreon to get even more benefits! https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000126286-Editing-your-membership#:~:text=Switching%20your%20tier%20on%20the%20Patreon%20app&text=Select%20the%20pencil%20icon%20to,d%20like%20to%20switch%20to
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Shrink Chicks Crossover Episode w/Emmalee Bierly, LMFT & Jennifer Chaiken, LMFT Jan 27, 2021

Show notes

Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists, and Co-owners of The Therapy Group, Emmalee Bierly and Jennifer Chaiken are the hosts of Shrink Chicks Podcast. They invited Rachel on their show after seeing her in the STARZ documentary Seduced. They ask Rachel about how she got started in the field of cult psychology, the complications of providing therapy to vulnerable cult survivors, and the lack of educational opportunities for therapists interested in this specialized field. Rachel also speaks about the need for more professionals to join the field to meet the needs of survivors and provides some great advice for the family and friends of people caught up in high control groups. Before You Go: Rachel shares a preview of our new Patreon exclusive segment, The Weekly Check-In which will be available every Friday on Patreon to all levels of supporters. Sign up for any amount to access these exclusive recordings at https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination Thanks to our newest supporters: Djamilla, Todd Brown, and Jeanie Gaskill For more information on Emmalee and Jennifer, or to hear more episodes of Shrink Chicks please visit: https://www.shrinkchicks.com/
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