Hallway Chat

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**Hallway Chat**

Fraser & Nabeel explore what it means to build great products in this new world of AI.

Two former founders, now VCs, have an off-the-cuff conversation with friends about the new AI products that are worth trying, emerging patterns, and how founders are navigating a world that’s changing every week.

Fraser is the former Head of Product at OpenAI, where he managed the teams that shipped ChatGPT and DALL-E, and is now an investor at Spark Capital. Nabeel is a former founder and CEO, now an investor at Spark, and has served on the boards of Discord, Postmates, Cruise, Descript, and Adept.

It’s like your weekly dinner party on what’s happening in artificial intelligence.

Latest Episodes:

Trailer Feb 21, 2024

Show notes

What is Hallway Chat anyway

(00:00) - Introduction and Podcast Naming

Making of Arc Search, and finding your AI product strategy with Josh Miller Feb 20, 2024

Show notes

Josh Miller, Founder and CEO of The Browser Co, joins this week. We loved the experience with Arc Search, a new AI-enabled mobile search experience, we decided to talk to Josh directly about how it all came together.

Topics
* How Arc Search came to be spawned out of basically a side project
* The core value of "we don't know"
* How the key AI feature 'Browse for Me' was not the initial concept, but came to be added last minute
* Josh's initial skepticism about AI, up until just a few months ago, and what flipped him
* Three strategies for AI integration
* The perils of leading with consumer hooks, how that derailed Browser Co, and focusing on solving problems
* Should cost be a key consideration when developing AI?

Hope you enjoy us mixing it up this week by talking with someone wrestling with building in the space. Drop us a line on twitter at @nabeel and @fraser with what you want to hear more (or less) of.

(00:00) - Intro
(01:02) - Welcome Josh, CEO of The Browser Company
(02:51) - The origin of Arc Search
(05:12) - Browse For Me
(06:55) - Overview of Arc Search
(16:51) - Thinking about competition
(25:08) - User problems over elegant hooks
(29:25) - Three strategies for AI integration
(34:51) - The importance of prototyping
(40:28) - The future of desktop search
(46:01) - Thinking about costs when building with AI

Stages of Disruption: Adaptation, Evolution, or Revolution? Plus Email AI app Shortwave Feb 13, 2024

Show notes

Two former founders, now VCs, play with AI products and see where that leads...

Fraser and Nabeel discuss the differences between horizontal disruption and vertical market disruption and the patterns of the phases of this disruption in the mobile age. From Adaptation, to Evolution, and eventually Revolution. Next, they dive into AI email app Shortwave AI. This leads to a conversation around what AI models are optimizing for, and how speed and polish can sometimes be part of the baseline usability of a product.

They also explore the default Agent workflows we should be trying as we figure out the right knowledge worker AI copilot. Using the analogy of the history of web development and AI no code, from webflow to squarespace, what those design approaches might tell us about how AI workflow tools will develop.

Finally, we discuss the potential value of talking to VCs when you're not raising, and the perils of taking even good generalized advice all the time.

Topics
* Shortwave email
* Avi Goldfarb and his book Prediction Machines
* Avi also spoke with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
* Yahoo Pipes wikipedia page, or see Retool's amazing history of Pipes

* TLdraw's Makereal

(00:00) - Intro
(00:32) - "AI Week" at Startups
(02:43) - Is it Adaption, Evolution, or Revolution
(05:23) - Shortwave AI - Adapting email to AI
(08:07) - Familiar but personalized
(11:09) - Speed is a feature too
(15:51) - Taking users on a behavior change journey
(18:37) - What are Agent workflows we should default to
(26:04) - TLdraw & Notion, over Pipes, as the core UX for AI
(29:43) - TLDraw as metaphor for "show me the output" application building
(31:13) - History of Web Development as analogy for AI no code
(33:37) - Is it worth talking to VCs when you aren't raising
(43:24) - Building relationships, Bizdev vs Sales

Best of the Voice Note Apps, Three Layers of AI Coding & A Wishlist of Products Jan 28, 2024

Show notes

Reviewing voice note transcription apps, from WaveAI to Audiopen and ChatGPT. Then Fraser and Nabeel take stock of various ways AI coding is affecting software development, from Co-Pilots to "mealeable software development" and No-Code AI. Lastly, the hosts talk through a wish list of products they'd love to see this year.

Topics:
- Slowed Pace of AI Product Launches
- Wave AI app, and what to look for in voice notes transcription
- Current state of AI-enabled software tools
- Potential impact of AI on software development workflows
- What is the AI native storytelling medium
- The AI todo list partner
- Coding as a liberal art
- User input layer and direct feedback in AI-enabled tools

References:
- Wave AI
- Meable Software in the age of LLMs
- Zapier AI
- Replit

(00:00) -
(01:39) - Wave AI
(06:29) - Adapting Behavior to Leverage AI Products
(12:54) - AI Enabled Software Development
(13:46) - Infinitely Adaptable UIs via AI
(18:31) - Zapier ++
(20:51) - AI Enabled Software Engineers
(31:31) - Different Products Across Each Layer
(34:48) - AI Products We'd Like to See in 2024

Developments in Prompting, Making Sense of AI Hardware Gadgetpalooza & trying SunoAI music creation Jan 18, 2024

Show notes

Fraser and Nabeel discuss the onslaught of AI hardware launches, exploring the potential factors behind this shift. They also discuss the importance of designing not by listening to your customer but by understanding the customer. The duo also discuss the importance and challenges surrounding 'prompt engineering' vs prompt writing, using BARD, SunoAI and Perplexity as case examples. They cover the layoffs in tech startups, examining the tension between growth and profitability and the potential drawbacks of a too-aggressive cost-cutting focus. Finally, they delve into the potential of AI in generating music, trying SunoAI.

Links:
- OpenAI Prompt Engineering guide
- Rabbit - new AI hardware companion
- Snipd - Podcast player
- Remarkable - Dedicated tablet for note writing
- SunoAI - AI music creation

(00:00) - Designing AI Hardware, Prompt engineering vs prompt writing, Suno AI
(00:47) - The era of AI hardware?
(01:28) - Why it's the right time for AI Hardware startups
(06:34) - YouTube, and building on top of another platform
(08:37) - Is AI Hardware destined to be a phone appendage?
(10:58) - Nobs, dials, and the joy of tactile
(11:38) - The GPT Store: Should founders care?
(17:57) - New year starts with a thud, layoffs
(19:52) - How founders can pitch taking risk in 2024
(23:12) - Prompt Engineering Lives On
(24:48) - Snipd's Summaries
(27:37) - When do you use prompts vs your roll your own model
(33:21) - My model vs yours, it depends on the goal
(35:11) - Consumer Web Agents
(37:25) - The problem isn't Actions, it's Context
(43:25) - Exploring Bard and Gemini Pro
(46:59) - Perplexity, Search and Synthesize
(49:23) - Prompt Engineering vs Prompt Writing
(52:32) - Suno AI
(54:44) - What products lend themselves to Discord communities
(56:25) - Live test of Suno AI

Building entropically, Gemini, Prompt engineerings revenge, and Superpowered Dec 11, 2023

Show notes

Nabeel and Fraser briefly discuss Google's new AI model, Gemini, and keeping authenticity in startup pitches. They discuss the perils of trying to simplify when technology is lending towards complexity. How to stay authentic to yourself when pitching and fundraising. The new findings of Claude prompting, and the likely continued need for prompt engineering. Finally, they talk about the startup SuperPowered, its potential pivot, and how passion for problem-solving can impact a company's direction.

* Google Gemini's excellent product video "demo"
* History of Razorfish
* Claude 2.1 Prompting Technique
* AI Meeting notes from Superpowered.me

(00:00) - Building when entropy is increasing
(01:00) - Introduction and Welcome
(01:15) - Discussing the Frequency of AI Developments
(01:45) - Google's AI Developments and the Gemini Team
(02:19) - Explaining Gemini and its Significance
(05:04) - Analyzing Google Gemini from afar
(18:02) - You are 5 words away from being done
(27:00) - The analogy of the early web vs early LLMs
(30:05) - Do we need the Razorfish of AI
(33:27) - The Future of AI Tools and Platforms
(34:11) - The Importance of Implementation Engineers in AI
(35:54) - Are we in an entropic or de-entropy phase?
(37:57) - The Importance of Authenticity in Marketing
(38:53) - Founders just being real
(47:28) - How would you fundraise differently now?
(50:15) - Superpowered.me and AI Note Taking Startups

Launch stories of ChatGPT Dec 02, 2023

Show notes

Nabeel gets to ask Fraser for reflections on the development of ChatGPT on the one-year anniversary. They talk about the intersection of product managers and AI researchers, how ChatGPT came to be on the roadmap, how the team came to be formed, and the difference between polish & overengineering. They then discuss the recent explosion of real-time AI painting applications, the divide between text-based UIs and GUIs in AI products, and redesigning new creative arts at the intersections of art, realtime, and play.

* Aliisa on the night of ChatGPT's launch
* Martin Nebelong's Realtime painting experiements
* Fastlane.AI Painting
* Kepano - Photoshop for text

(00:00) - Introduction
(00:46) - Quotes from the ChatGPT 1 year anniversary
(07:19) - Lessons from ChatGPT development
(08:55) - It's not a happy accident
(09:36) - The Birth of the AI Assistant
(10:12) - Forming the ChatGPT team
(19:15) - Differences between polish & overengineering
(23:47) - Realtime AI Painting
(25:47) - GUIs make it easier, so prompts can get harder
(32:35) - Twitch meets the creative arts?

Three patterns of LLM product development Nov 18, 2023

Show notes

The conversation kicks off with the surprising news of Sam Altman’s departure from OpenAI. Nabeel and Fraser then discuss the ‘crazy week’ of product releases, demystifying the complexity and impact of AI in various workflows. They spotlight AI startup Lindy, review My GPTS, and early impressions of the product Dot, an AI-driven guide in daily life. The duo categorizes AI developments into three ‘buckets’: lead bullet strategy, a universal translator bucket, and inventing new behaviors.

(00:00) - The three types of LLM products
(02:07) - Exploring Lindy
(08:21) - GPTs
(15:52) - Frameworks for AI Product Development
(20:21) - Dot: Your Guide in Life
(26:07) - Revisiting Categorization
(29:45) - Patience in Innovation

My GPTs, and avoiding the OpenAI tidal wave as a founder Nov 13, 2023

Show notes

In this conversation, discussions revolve around the recent OpenAI Dev Day, the Reflect note taking app, and how founders should internalize the "threat" and partnership opportunities with OpenAI. Fraser & Nabeel discuss that it's still "fart app and flashlight" early days for developers to truly utilize the capabilities of technologies like ChatGPT. The conversation then shifts to Reflect, a note-taking app that utilises AI to optimise features like speech-to-text and backlinking. The speakers debate whether one company can excel in both consumer-facing products and developer platforms, highlighting how OpenAI is in a unique position to potentially 'run the table' across various booming markets.

(00:00) - Are My GPTs an app store or chrome store?
(01:00) - Open AI Dev Day
(01:33) - Exploring MyGPTs
(08:44) - Difficulty and Promise of App Stores
(11:28) - Surprises of the first year since Chat GPT
(14:14) - Investor influence on founders
(19:36) - Coming to terms with the AI fog of war as a founder
(21:54) - Exploring Reflect: A New Note-Taking App
(26:45) - Will OpenAI be able to be consumer & enterprise?

When do AI startups have advantage over incumbents? Nov 10, 2023

Show notes

Fraser & Nabeel get things up and running again at Hallway Chat. How AI is changing search engines, comparing Perplexity with Google, and what just goes to ChatGPT & Claude. "Shipping your org chat". Debating Sam Lessin's recent "State of Venture Capital" and whether AI in startups is just magical thinking. The app of the week: Snipd, an AI podcast player

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Follow us on Twitter @nabeel | @fraser