Show notes
#355: Marc, Josué, and Link discuss fitting in, and finding places where you can be your authentic self. We cover several examples of media that conveys the exquisite nuances of navigating real and fictional social spaces. Transcript Marc Cuiriz 0:11Good evening, everybody. This is one of your wonderful co hosts Marc Cuiriz here on Geek Therapy radio. We’re here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. Joining me today on this lovely evening is the illustrious link Keller, Link Keller 0:33yo, Marc Cuiriz 0:34and the ever inspiring Josué Cardona. Josué Cardona 0:39Greetings. Marc Cuiriz 0:41How’d you guys like the new intro today? Link Keller 0:44It’s good. Josué Cardona 0:45You’re leveling up, Marc Cuiriz 0:46you know, I Link Keller 0:47sultry, even. Marc Cuiriz 0:49I noticed that. And this kind of goes in fitting with today’s topic. But I noticed that for a while a lot of a lot of the times my intro would want to mimic Josué and kind of how he does the intro. And I always saw that as my way of trying to sort of blend in with everything kind of kind of fit myself into everything. But today I’m on my drive home. I was like, You know what, I kind of want to give it a Sardonyx kind of vibe, you know, just kind of be really out there and kind of stand out for myself and kind of differentiate my intros from Josué’s from Link’s, has Lara ever done an intro? Link Keller 1:35not if she can help it? Josué Cardona 1:37I don’t I can’t remember a single time Link Keller 1:40once and she she beat us all up afterwards. So never again. I’m just kidding. I think that’s great. You’re, you’re individuating Isn’t that lovely? Marc Cuiriz 1:53Exactly. So. So this kind of goes in hand with the topic that I chose for this week. And this, this topic came up. When I saw Spider Man across the spider verse a couple a couple of weeks ago, I’m not going to really get too spoilery I’m going to try and actually avoid all spoilers about it if I can, but really just kind of touch on a major theme with in the movie, which was fitting in and having to find your place in society in the world, in your own social groups and sort of going on that journey and discovering kind of where where does someone like where do you fit in, in your life and things like that? So I’m kind of curious as to sort of what you guys have experienced with when it comes to like, figuring out where you fit in with things or what sort of journeys you guys have gone on. Either in the past or currently things like that. Josué Cardona 3:06Link, you fit in everywhere, right? Always. Link Keller 3:08I’m a social chameleon, which I am learning may also be a sign of autism. But that’s another episode we’ll get into. Yeah, yeah, I’ve had you know, as a as a kid, I moved a lot. So I got really good at making myself socially open to people to make social connections and, and to fit in with groups. Very much in high school. Like I hung out with nerds, but I also hung out with the Goths. And occasionally the stoners and didn’t, you know didn’t quite make the full drift cycle into like the sports and theater side. But yeah, fitting in, it is a great topic for this because there’s so much good media, talking about those kinds of stories because it’s true is like there is skill and effort involved in learning how to connect with people to get that feeling of fitting in and there are times when you do fit in but you don’t feel it. And so that’s I think an important thing to talk about as well. Josué Cardona 4:31I think it’s really interesting that you used the words blending in at the beginning marc, because you’re like, oh, you know, I’m gonna do the same thing everybody else does. So I don’t stand out. And it’s like the overlap between like the blending in and the fitting in. Because it’s making me think how I did not want to do anything that would make me stand out. But I did that because I did not want to fit in I didn’t want I wanted to be invisible, I hated everybody, I didn’t want to fit in. I was like, How can I? How can I? How can I blend in the most, so that nobody tries to bring me into their group. I hadn’t hadn’t thought about it when we were that way, as we were, you know, coming up with this. With this, I do, I do have that chameleon aspect, which, which is very unconscious in many ways. Like, I adopt things from different groups, and I completely don’t do it on purpose. Link Keller 5:40It’s totally like a human defense mechanism is like we we rely on each other. And so it is like, beneficial to be able to read social cues and then replicate them as a way to be like, see, I’m part of the group, please don’t throw me out into the wilderness. Josué Cardona 6:01Again, I may be wrong, but I didn’t. I don’t want to do that. You know, like, if I’m speaking with someone who has a particular accent, my accent starts changing. If I have I started adopting words that I didn’t mean to adopt. At some point, my life changed. And I knew I was like, Oh, shit, I sound just like this other person now laughing How did what? How did that happen? That’s, I don’t know. That is that is a way to fit in. Right? Like, you have people dressing up a particular way or doing something right to fit in with that group right like, I don’t I don’t know, did you? What did you do to fit in with the goths and the stoners at your school? Or were you just yourself? And they were just so accepting. Link Keller 6:53I mean, we’re talking about high school. So no, the nobodies that accepting. I not not so much like the the social signifiers like clothes and things like that, mostly because I spent a significant amount of my youth and adulthood uh poor, so I, you know, I buy secondhand clothes, and I prefer comfort over fashion. And so not so much that that social signifier to other people, but you know, my go to move is I sort of I sort of circled group, make a little circle I’m observing, I’m seeing who is talking to who I’m seeing what jokes are being utilized. I’m seeing what media people are talking about. And that was the in. So talking about music with the goth kids, that was the in. I wasn’t playing Pokemon at that time. But Pokemon Pearl and diamond came out while I was in my senior year of high school, and the nerdy kids who hung out next to the library were all on their, you know, on their DSs playing. And I’m just like, tell me all about the new Pokemon. I’m interested in this. And you know, at that point, had actually made some legitimate friends who are like, Okay, I need you to actually get a DS and get Pokemon and play with me. And I’m like, Okay, now I know I’m in because you’re actually asking me to engage more than just talking about the thing. It’s like, No, I want you to play the thing with me. But yeah, I mean, you know, I, we talk all the time about how media helps us understand each other and ourselves better. And, and that has always been my go to have like, you know, Oh, I see that you’re, you know, reading a book or you’re listening to something on your headphones. What are you listening to? And using that away to engage with people or, like, you know, did you see that cool new sci fi movie everybody’s been talking about? Like, what did you think about that, and using that as a way to, if not build, like, deep meaningful friendships than at least creating that social connection where somebody feels as though I’m at least an acquaintance and therefore could potentially make the next step into like, true friendship. So yeah, it’s a it’s definitely a skill though. Like when I was when I was in middle school is more like if I’m if I’m a silly little jester, everybody will find me charming and they won’t ask me to leave when I jester around to them. Being a little clown. Marc Cuiriz 9:37aight, Link Keller 9:38that doesn’t work as well as an adult. Marc Cuiriz 9:42I think for me, I was definitely a lot more like Josué in the sense where I was like, don’t Please don’t Don’t Don’t call attention to me. I don’t want to be seen. I don’t want to be noticed. I just want to blend into the background. And also had those those chameleon that That’s like I was able to socially chameleon myself and and camouflage myself and all the groups. But what helped me be able to go from group to group was not so much of like me sort of connecting to them through the media or for whatever it was, it was usually because I always knew at least one person, whether that was a person that was in my class that I just talked to a little bit more often. Or it was like a family member, like one of my cousins or something like that, there was always somebody that I knew. So there was always at least one connection that I could just like slither my way into, so what I would do is I would basically say, like, hi, like, I would scan the entire area, scan the entire group, find the one person and Beeline it to them, and then just be around them enough, and then take in everything. And then I, again, I was also a person that adopts different mannerisms, I, how my voice would be, and how I would communicate with people would change the language that I would use would change. And this is something that my wife has pointed out several times when, depending on who I’m talking to, she’ll be like, Why are you talking like that? Or why are you saying things like that you don’t talk like that, like, and I don’t realize that either. Like, it’s just my way of like, I just don’t want to make any waves. I don’t want to ruffle any feathers, I just need to fly under the radar and make myself just invisible. Link Keller 11:30I think there’s a sort of like an unconscious element to it. Where you’re, you’re reflecting back to a person. And people like to look at their reflection is doing a little mirror action. People are like, you know, I like that. I like you. Josué Cardona 11:48And you called it a defense mechanism earlier. Right. And like, I think I think you know, with enough trauma, you know, and that’s one of those things that just comes up because it’s a way of staying safe. Link Keller 11:58safe Yeah, absolutely. Marc Cuiriz 12:00And I think for me, at the time, when now all that was happening, I thought that that was me being able to fit in with everybody. Like I was like I fit in with a group I can hang out with the jocks because of my cousins and everything like that I can hang out with the theater kids, because that’s what I do. I have the choir band kids because I’m taking that class, I got this that whatever I could blend in with everybody. So I thought I could fit in. I was fitting in with everybody. And when I look back at it now it’s like no, no, I did not fit in there were there were some groups that I hung around sometimes where it’s like, I definitely did not belong in that group. It’s just that I was just able to camouflage enough that no one really asked or raised, too many eyebrows are asked too many questions about it. They’re like, okay, he’s here. It’s like that, like, little, like, stray dog that comes by and people just can’t turn it away because it looks so adorable. And they’re like, alright, we’ll keep you around for a little bit. That was basically me and I look back on it. I’m like, Okay, I’m starting to realize that I didn’t fit in with every group, but also started asking why did I think that I was fitting in, like, what about the blending in aspect of it made me feel like I belonged to that particular group, even though I knew or at least I know, now that that wasn’t the case. Josué Cardona 13:21You said the thing about like that the dog that just keep it around. I see that as like, I don’t know if you fit in or not, but you were not rejected. Link Keller 13:34I was just thinking, I think that’s such an important thing is like there, especially when you’re young. That feeling of fitting in is less about actually authentically being yourself and being accepted by authentic people around you. And more. So I am not currently being rejected. therefore I’m fitting in, I’m fitting in just fine. I think that’s such as you grow up and mature having that realization that those are like two separate bars there of fitting in bar and being rejected bar. I think that’s a good point. Josué Cardona 14:10It wasn’t until like, my early 20s When I started thinking of groups that I even wanted to be a part of. Until that point, it was always just like, just don’t, don’t reject me at the you know, to that point. Just like let me play pokémon in the corner and don’t just leave me the fuck alone. Please just don’t, you know, like, why does it matter? What does it matter what my hair looks like? What does it matter? Link Keller 14:38Let me exist in your space, but don’t don’t have expectations for me, please Josué Cardona 14:44everyone’s so judgey Link Keller 14:45just let me exist near you. Josué Cardona 14:47I mean, the the founding reason of Geek Therapy as an organization as an idea is that and I didn’t realize this like really, really well until A couple years ago, but it was me dealing with me being rejected all the time. Right. And I was like, when I work with my clients, when I worked with other people, I never want them to feel rejected. To how can I feel right? So a big part of it is sure we can connect over all this media, but the but but like, a lot of the skills that we teach are, how to how to be open to it, right? Don’t roll your eyes. Don’t let me know that you don’t like the Star Wars prequels Shut up. Right? Don’t yuck my yum, right, it’s a little thing. It’s things like that, that they’re not small, right? Like, if you’re working with clients that are children, you may be one of the few and maybe even the only adult in their life that hopefully, is not dismissive of parts of them, or is willing to listen to them talk about the shows that they’re like, or the problems that they’re having. A lot of a lot of us don’t didn’t have that, right, our parents didn’t know how we’re doing for a number of reasons. And there are many reasons why the adults in our lives when we’re younger, they have, they’re sharing their opinions, they’re concerned about you, they think they know what’s best. And so it’s like, everything’s a problem, from the way you dress to the way you talk to the way you look to the way you think. And that stuff can can wear on you. And so the idea that, you know, when you’re in a therapeutic relationship, teacher, you know, relationship, any any kind of mentoring, and having somebody that will just, again, not like, oh, I fit in. So I’m, I’m not even going as far as like, I want to say accepting, but I’ll take tolerating, and just not even ideally, it’s acceptance, right? But at the very least, like, just let me live. And again, that’s not fitting in. But that that is, that is a big part of it as well. Just feeling there’s a difference between not feeling rejected. And, and just exist existing without conflict, versus being accepted and embraced in a in a group. Marc, how are you fitting in, you’re doing alright? Marc Cuiriz 17:21Man, you, you got a whole lot of stuff. And it’s so since since I’ve started my internship, and I mean, we talked about this a little bit before, before we started recording, where I’m going to be starting to see children clients, and one of my biggest things is like i How, how does one work with work with children like that. And so I think what you were saying earlier about, you know, worth working with young kids of like, I might potentially be the only adult in their life that is willing to listen to them and you know, kind of hear them out or things like that, like that’s, that’s something that’s really important. It’s something that I was like, kind of reminding, like getting reminded of like, oh, yeah, like, that’s true. And that’s a very important piece of it. Because I know for a fact for me, when I was growing up no one gave a shit man like, they were just like, you know, wha…
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