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In this episode, Ranger Dan interviews Daryl Shack Sr., a multifaceted Zuni artist best known for his work as a fetish carver, and painter. With over 40 years of experience, Daryl discusses how his artistry is deeply connected to Zuni culture. Beyond his own creations, he is a dedicated advocate for fellow Zuni artists, playing a key role in initiatives like the Zuni Art Walk and the Zuni ARTZ Co-op. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Grand Canyon Speaks - Episode 8 - Daryl Shack Speaks Daryl Shack: The epiphany came right back because on the table there was coral, turquoise, and pen shell, which is black, and mother of pearl, which is white or real shiny stuff, and so I wrapped it together and, you know, made my bundles, which now today at the Santa Fe shops, they call it the "Shack stack." So that's what I want for everybody through the co-op. Lakin: Welcome everyone to this week's episode of Grand Canyon Speaks. This is Lakin. Meranden: And this is Meranden. Lakin: In today's episode, Ranger Dan spoke with Daryl Shack, who is a Zuni fetish carver and multifaceted artist. Meranden: He explains the traditional role that the fetishes play in Zuni culture and the history behind the creation of this sacred art form. Lakin: Not only is Daryl an artist, but he's also a patron of artists from his community and provides support through efforts such as the Zuni Art Walk. Meranden: Take a listen to Daryl's story and we hope you enjoy. Daryl Shack: Keshi ko' don sunhapk'yanapkya. Ho' Daryl Shack le'shinna. Ho' Shiwinna kwin iya do'na ho' da: ko:wi a:wa'shuwakyan iya. Ho' Dowa:kwe deyan Ho' Bitchi:kwe a:wan cha'le. Ho' apde k'yan asdemłan dopbinde yałdo debikwaik'ya kesi. Ho' kets'anna do'na lak'yan a:wunakyan inan do'na Ho' a:wa'shuwakyan iya. Daryl Shack: Hello everybody. My name is Daryl Shack. I'm from the Pueblo of Zuni in New Mexico, and I am a fetish carver. I'm an artist, and I wanted to share that I'm in my clans, which is only very appropriate to share. I'm Corn clan, and I'm born for the Raven clan, so I always like to joke and say I'm liable to maybe eat myself one of these days. Daryl Shack: I keep things light. You know, life is very interesting for me as a Zuni man, and to have ties here at the Grand Canyon, it's been very interesting to be able to be invited here. And as an artist, it's very opportune, you know, to be able to do that. I'm sharing my work at the tower this year, and I've been here at the visitor center and at North Rim, so I'm very appreciative of the National Park Service for extending and providing this opportunity for communities to come and, you know, bridge ties and bring a better understanding of what we as Native American nations have going on here at the National Park Service and at the Grand Canyon especially. Ranger Dan: Yeah. Excellent, Daryl. And you mentioned that you're here as a demonstrator and showing your work down here, and I'd love to get a little bit more information about your history as an artist. Daryl Shack: Oh, okay. I think that's a little bit of, I don't know how I could go nonstop as far as history, but we were setting up Art Walk in Zuni, New Mexico in 2016, and we were all trying to figure out leadership, and we were talking about how many years of artistry we have in our background, and so we kind of went around the table. Some said 11 years, 12. Everybody's proud of, you know, their amount of years that they do artistry back home. Daryl Shack: Some people said 20 years, which is awesome. I had to think about it as it was getting to me. And, you know, when it got to me, I was 44 at the time, so I told them 42 years of artistry, and I wasn't lying. Daryl Shack: They all freaked out, but I wasn't lying because dancing is a very big part of our history and culture and our artistry now. We have dance troupes that go around and share social dancing, so at a very young age, that's what my dad exposed me to, so I was able to go and travel around and participate, and so I have pictures of myself in full-dress regalia, and so I was already performing back then, so performing artist I was born to. Daryl Shack: So that went on, and of course, school — once won a contest for a poster for the state of New Mexico, and it was for nighttime safety. I said, "wear white at night for safety," and so my poster won second place, and I won a check for like $80, and so that was pushing to really exposing myself to finding out that art is around, and finally high school, it was all about the art shows and everybody showing how good you can be, and then the real world hits you after high school when you find out whether you're going to decide if you're going to do art or not, but normally, you know, you need a job, and you focus on having that education behind you, and so I'm glad that my parents were able to push that on me, and so that continued, and finally, I worked as a public transportation driver for a bit into the senior program in Zuni, and I brought a lot of art with me there, because, you know, the elders were looking to crochet, looking to, you know, bead work was a big thing there, so it was kind of limited, but when I got there, this vast expanse of, "oh, what can I do, I can do marbling techniques with them, I can do—" you know, my mind went a little haywire there to just try to be, you know, accepted into what our elders might not or would be into, so I got very good at that, and so at this point, I can say that I worked as an activity director for 13 years, and I made people do things that they normally didn't do, but they did it anyway, and they liked it, you know, so that's something that I really bank on, and I'm thankful for that, because administratively it taught me a bit of what I'm able to do today, which is my art, which is fetishes. Daryl Shack: So back then, at some point, there was a time where I needed to participate culturally at a bigger level, and so it meant that I needed to host the men of my kiva. There's six kivas in our community, and those are like men's fraternities, and, ah, man, it's really difficult to explain this complex situation that I'd gotten into at that younger age, but I had to be initiated into that kachina cult, if you know a little bit about that, but just moving further on, it made me think a little bit more about how these ties were, you know, fueling the need for protecting art, and finding out where I belong, and so fetishes were born right about then, when I needed to supplement my income, and today, just very recently, I was asked, “Do you sit down to think about your art, and is it with intentions that what you're going to make is going to be sold, or going to go somewhere? And I'm like, “by now, yes, because it's art,” but I'm so glad that it's cultural tied, and with that, you know, it's helping me to preserve through talks like this, and just through mimicking what I've seen through my friends who've been dabbling in this fetish work, so fetishes are animals, and they're in rock form, and so that's what I get to do, and carve, and I was sharing that earlier, and I also paint, and what else do I do? Daryl Shack: I draw, I'm a sketch artist, I can pretty much sketch this in maybe two minutes, real quick, and you know, have fun with it, that's the life I have, I'm appreciative of it, because back home, I am in certain leadership positions, and it's more or less bloodline, and in a sense, there's also positions that, you know, I can't leave home, really, to go live in Boston, where I kind of think about a lot, or San Francisco, I just can't, you know, because my ties are at home, and at home, art is everywhere, you know, people don't realize back home how art is very important, and in these younger generations, we think that art has to be put on a mural, or has to be drawn, or has to, you know, but they don't realize that the pure forms of the silver work that we do, from raw material to the beautifully finished products that I wanted to bring, you know, these are works made by my parents, and worn by my grandma, my dad, and worn by my wife, you know, so, here's my wife, Nina, and so, these are very important things in my life that I try to help protect, now, so, just getting back to what I did before, as the Activist Director, I planned, and I coordinated, and so that helps me today, I help to advocate back home about artistry, and protecting, you know, the genuine, authentic Native American arts name, trademarking people's, and branding people's name, that's what we're helping to do, I'm helping to do that for myself, my wife, different artists in the community who need the help, who want the help, I'm a founding member of what we call Art Walking Zuni, and I'm a founding member of the only Native American jewelry co-op in the U.S., so, we're very proud of that, and I think, well, art has taken me a long way, and look where it got me, right in front of you guys, to come chit-chat a little bit about what art is to us in Zuni, art is life. Ranger Dan: And actually, one of those things, like, what art is, and you brought it up today, and it's a quote that I actually really enjoy, when we were talking, you said, art is still medicine, and art is, it's deep within Zuni culture, and, like, you're making fetishes today, and it's on an artistic basis, but, it's still medicine, and you talked about that, and also, for those that don't know, like, some of the artifacts we find here in the canyon are fetishes, so, this is something that's deeply rooted inside Zuni culture, and back then, it was medicine given to a person who needed to be saved, and so it's still, to that point today, where that medicine still exists. Can you elaborate upon that medicine existing to this day? Daryl Shack: Oh, exactly, I think, in light of things, I'm going to put in your minds, you know, our ancestors, you know, what did they have? You know, think back, like, way back, way back in primal days, we all have ancestors that didn't have CAT scans, or MRIs, but, you know, when people were sick, what did they have, this intuition to make them feel better, and to cure them. Daryl Shack: My people went a little further, and, you know, they asked the animal kingdom for that assistance, their know-how, their characteristics, or just asking for the unknown, you know, for help, and they found that the animals were able to do that, and it takes us back further, even, if I can, to times of creation, when we think about when man and animal were here together, and animal ate man easily, and so they were great beasts, and for assistance, our people asked our creator for, you know, help to come and give these animals, you know, at least some guidance so that they won't eat them, and the creator sent two warrior gods to talk to them, and when they did, the animal kingdom, quite honestly, didn't listen the first time, and so they kept eating man, and so man again asked for help, the warrior gods went back with intentions to at least maybe get some answers, deeply rooted in the traditions, and so those traditions are the lightning bolts of coral and turquoise, so they brought them down and said, hey guys, if you don't listen, yeah, and then, so they went back and still animal ate man, and so they went back down and said, okay, you guys don't listen, here we go, and so they speared their heart up, and it was meant to tame the animal spirit, it was meant to kill them, but to tame them and to let them know that really who's in charge is our creator, and who is asking for this assistance to take care of man, and so from there, the animal kingdom had this respect, because they were told by these warriors that, you know, when man calls upon your hand and your intuitions to help, and they're going to make effigies of you, and that way you won't eat them, but you are that beast, you are that animal, and when they call upon you through prayer and invocation, that you will be there to help them, and so this medicine wasn't just, you know, something to play around with back then, powerful medicine that's meant for our healing fraternities, at some point, you know, it just blossomed into a good thing for everybody that does work with these animals as art, and for me, it's still medicine, that's what I said, because it helps to cure me, helps to cure those that might be alien, might, you know, come to my table or view my page on Facebook and find that it makes them smile. Daryl Shack: I have vast collectors that feel so much energy from my work, you know, I sit down with a good heart, that's the only thing that I think about, and these are words from our elders to tell us that, you know, have a good heart before you touch Mother Earth, before you work with Mother Earth, and even though it's a rock, it's still Mother Earth, and so a lot of these notions to preserve these, you know, cultural aspects of, you know, really working and focusing this energy that's unbeknownst to us, really, and it may go into my work, and so I do have to feel a good heart, and sometimes when it's not, they break, you know, or sometimes it just takes forever to finish something, and so I take a break, for real, and go focusing on something else, so, energy in the art for Native Americans throughout, I think it can pertain to that same, you know, perspective. Ranger Dan: Yeah, the energy is with all of us, it's not just the cultures of the Southwest, the people who call the canyon home, it's with everyone who visits, it's with everyone who comes to the canyon, it's with, who visits Zuni, who visits the cultures around here, and it's like what you're talking about, like those good memories and everything. Daryl Shack: Yeah, I mean, today, like, I spoke with a young lady who had come in and had asked for a turtle, and I didn't have any turtles on my table, but heck, I told her, "I'm honest, I'm fast at carving animals," and then so I said, "come back later, I'll have one for you," so, you know, we had a short conversation about how she's having her daughter move somewhere, and so I told her, we had a Zuni boy that moved to Albuquerque also, and I gave him a turtle as well, and she didn't even, well, she didn't know that part, but when I told her that part, it made everything so special, and at one point, we were both crying, and I think, you know, the connections, the energy's different for everybody, and when you see my animals, you'll feel that, because some make you happy, some is like, oh, some is like, oh, you know, and then when you hear the price, you'll be like, oh, yeah, but then you know what? It's not about price, because I always say this, I'll share with you one story I learned at the Indian market in Santa Fe, which is a huge show, you know, you can expect to pay, some people pay thousands of dollars for pieces over there, right? We've seen a kachina doll go for $13,000 next to our table like that, and we were like, "oh, they're already going home and we're still here." Daryl Shack: So, but anyways, this young man came up, I had a beautiful sodalite, which is blue, mountain lion sitting up there on my table, and so he comes up, and he looked at it, and looked at his mom, and he looked at it, and it took off. Later on, he comes back, looked at it again, this time picked it up, put it back, and…
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