Giving Voice to Depression: Real Stories & Expert Support for Depression and Mental Health

Latest Episodes:

How to Make a Mental Health Wellness Plan: Daily Tools for Living with Depression Jul 04, 2023

Show notes

A mental health wellness plan isn’t just a worksheet—it’s a lifeline. In this episode, co-hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz walk through the first part of creating a Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP). This practical guide helps individuals living with depression and other mental health conditions identify the daily habits, warning signs, and stressors that affect their well-being.

Through personal reflection and clinical insight, they share how to identify what wellness looks like for you, what to avoid, and how to build a system of tools that supports your mental health. Whether you’re creating your first WRAP plan or revisiting one after a setback, this conversation offers a compassionate step-by-step foundation.

🎧 Part 2 will cover: crisis plans, signs of breakdown, and post-crisis strategies.

Here's a link to the plan outline we're following: https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/WRAP.pdf

Primary Topics Covered

What a WRAP (Wellness Recovery Action Plan) is and why it matters
How to define what “wellness” means for you
Creating a daily maintenance plan for mental health
Identifying personal warning signs and stressors
Tools that help when living with depression
Strategies for remembering and sustaining wellness practices
The difference between triggers and early signs of relapse
When and how to revise your mental health plan

Timestamps:

00:00 – Intro and episode overview
02:00 – Why building a mental health toolkit matters
03:51 – What is a WRAP plan and how to use it
05:11 – Defining what “well” looks like for you
08:29 – Simple, accessible wellness tools that help with depression
11:13 – Identifying meaning and values that inspire wellness
13:44 – New tools to try and expand your mental health support list
14:28 – What to avoid to stay well (habits that sabotage recovery)
18:14 – Depression logic and harmful thinking patterns
19:01 – Daily wellness practices that support stability
22:14 – Weekly or less frequent wellness maintenance (e.g., grocery shopping)
23:49 – Tools that work but need regular reminders or accountability
25:47 – External accountability and buddy systems for movement
26:10 – Identifying stressors that can derail mental health
29:54 – Early warning signs of a depressive episode
32:38 – Overreaction, irritability, and “everyone syndrome”
34:09 – What’s next: breakdown and crisis planning in Part 2

Explore mental health and addiction treatment options at recovery.com
Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/GivingVoiceToDepression/
Terry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/givingvoicetodepression/

Depression, Self-Care, and Self-Compassion: Finding a Life Worth Living Jun 27, 2023

Show notes

Who are you healing for? Yourself—or everyone else?

In this deeply personal episode of Giving Voice to Depression, guest Ari Cohen shares her journey of living with depression since childhood. Diagnosed at 11, Ari spent years defining herself by her illness and pursuing recovery mainly to ease others’ worries or to meet external expectations.

It wasn’t until her late 20s—through a trauma-informed women’s outpatient program—that Ari began shifting her motivation: choosing to recover and live for herself. Along the way, she reveals how suicidal thoughts, family loss, and lived experiences shaped her perspective, and how learning self-compassion helped her begin to believe she was worthy of a life worth living.

This episode is a reminder that self-care is not selfish. Healing is possible when we stop living only for others and start embracing recovery for ourselves.

Link to Families for Depression Awareness site: https://www.familyaware.org/

Primary Topics Covered:

How Ari’s depression began at age 11 with physical symptoms
Early treatment with antidepressants and the onset of suicidal thoughts
The importance of supportive doctors, parents, and social workers
The impact of her stepbrother’s suicide on her personal commitment to seek help
Why meeting peers with lived experience was life-changing
How external motivators (family, school, camp) shaped her recovery path
The turning point in her late 20s: “Who are you doing this for?”
Learning to practice self-compassion and see herself as worthy
Why caring for yourself doesn’t mean doing it by yourself
Tools like the Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP) to manage warning signs

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction and hosts welcome
01:40 Why discussions often focus on others instead of the person struggling
02:26 Guest introduction: Ari Cohen’s background and journey
03:11 Diagnosed with depression at age 11
05:14 Early treatment and first suicidal thoughts triggered by medication
06:37 Emergency room experience and the importance of family support
08:15 High school years and the impact of her stepbrother’s suicide
09:29 Making a personal commitment to ask for help
10:13 Meeting a social worker who asked the life-changing question: “What do YOU need?”
11:12 Discovering the healing power of peer connection
11:28 Entering trauma-informed outpatient treatment in her late 20s
12:00 Writing a letter to suicide and seeing its role in her life story
12:06 Facing the pivotal question: “Who are you doing this for?”
13:10 Shifting from living for others to healing for herself
15:15 The difference between self-care for yourself vs. doing it by yourself
16:35 Gentle strategies for cultivating self-compassion
18:26 Hosts reflect on Ari’s wisdom and insights
20:27 Introducing WRAP (Wellness Recovery Action Plan) for upcoming episodes
22:25 Closing reflections and reminders

Losing a Parent to Suicide: A Son’s Journey Through Grief, Guilt, and Healing Jun 20, 2023

Show notes

What happens when suicide leaves a child behind?

In this moving episode of Giving Voice to Depression, Nic Sheff—author of Ashes in the Ocean—shares his story of losing his father to suicide at just 20 years old. His father’s death left Nic grappling with grief, guilt, confusion, and fear that he would follow in his father’s footsteps.

Through writing, therapy, and years of reflection, Nic began to untangle the complicated emotions that come with suicide loss. He speaks candidly about the silence that surrounded his father’s depression, the anger he carried, and the healing he eventually found by telling his story.

Nic’s openness reminds survivors of suicide loss that their pain is valid, their questions are normal, and healing is possible—even after the most devastating loss.

Learn more about Sebastian and his father in the book "Ashes in the Ocean": https://www.amazon.com/Ashes-Ocean-Through-Learning-Fathers/dp/0692051198/

Nic’s experience of losing his father to suicide at age 20
The silence and stigma surrounding his father’s depression
Guilt, anger, and unanswered questions that follow suicide loss
The fear of repeating his father’s path and inherited risk
How writing Ashes in the Ocean became a healing outlet
The importance of therapy and supportive community in grieving
Breaking generational silence about mental illness and suicide
Why sharing stories helps reduce shame and offers hope to others
Encouragement to survivors that grief can soften with time

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction and episode framing
01:37 Guest introduction: Nic Sheff, author of Ashes in the Ocean
02:13 Nic shares the story of his father’s suicide
04:22 The silence that surrounded his father’s depression
05:15 Immediate aftermath: shock, confusion, and guilt
06:41 Anger toward his father and the pain of abandonment
08:04 Fear of repeating his father’s path into suicide
09:35 Writing as a healing tool—why Ashes in the Ocean mattered
11:27 How therapy helped process grief and loss
12:49 Breaking the cycle of silence and shame in his family
14:02 Why storytelling is critical in suicide prevention and loss support
15:33 Reflections on healing, resilience, and hope after loss
17:00 Closing messages for suicide loss survivors

Smiling on the Outside, Struggling Inside: The Truth About Hidden Depression Jun 13, 2023

Show notes

Is your smile hiding something deeper?

In this powerful episode of Giving Voice to Depression, guest Andrew shares his candid story about the mask he wore for decades—keeping up a cheerful, functional exterior while battling deep depression and suicidal thoughts inside.

Together with hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sands, Andrew explores the double-edged nature of masking depression. On one hand, it helps people survive daily obligations, protect their privacy, and avoid stigma. But on the other hand, it fuels isolation, delays help-seeking, and reinforces shame.

Andrew’s writing and reflections reveal the tension between authenticity and survival, and why finding safe people and places to “drop the mask” is essential for healing.

This episode will resonate deeply with anyone who has ever forced a smile while silently struggling—and offers validation, hope, and encouragement to start living more authentically.

Link to Andrew Penner's blog: https://thephoenixnarrative.blog/

Link to Andrew Penner's articles: https://themighty.com/u/andrew-penner/

Link to Andrew Penner's Twitter: https://twitter.com/andrewpenner78

Primary Topics Covered:

What “smiling” or “functional” depression looks like in everyday life
How Andrew lived with undiagnosed depression for 20 years
The rise of suicidal thoughts and his decision to finally seek help
How medication and self-care helped stabilize his depression
The mask as both protector and trap: survival tool and isolator
The stigma that pushes people to hide behind facades
The dangers of long-term masking and why it worsens suffering
Writing and self-expression as tools to give shape to depression
The importance of safe spaces and trusted allies for authenticity
Why masking prevents others from truly understanding our struggles

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction and welcome
01:10 Defining the “mask” of smiling or functional depression
02:49 Guest introduction: Andrew and his blog Rise Above the Ashes
03:19 Living with symptoms for 20 years before diagnosis
03:37 Suicidal thoughts and the breaking point in 2015
04:27 Calling a crisis line and starting therapy/medication
04:59 How medication helped stabilize his life
05:37 Wearing a mask at work while suicidal thoughts looped inside
06:44 The mask as “bane and savior”—strength and poison
07:11 Why masking helps short-term but harms long-term
07:37 The universality of masks—social media, curated lives, facades
08:28 How stigma and stereotypes push people to hide
08:55 Masking feeds depression, making it “hungrier”
09:52 The power of facing struggles head-on instead of running
10:32 The push-pull between authenticity and hiding behind a mask
10:53 Stigma statistics—1 in 5 report, but real numbers likely higher
11:22 Delays in diagnosis: the average 10 years before seeking help
12:10 Why Andrew blogs: to give words and validation to others
13:22 The healing power of creative expression—writing, music, art
14:05 Dr. Anita on the balance of masking vs. authenticity
15:15 Hosts reflect on trust, stigma, and letting others in
15:59 Andrew’s powerful quote: “I don’t want to run from it either.”
16:19 Finding safe people and spaces to take the mask off
17:31 Closing reflections and reminder: if you’re struggling, speak up

Living with Depression: How to Challenge Its Lies and Break Free from Hopeless Thinking Jun 06, 2023

Show notes

Living with depression often means battling thoughts that feel convincing—but aren't true. You might believe you're broken, that nothing will ever get better, or that you're the only one struggling this much. These thoughts don’t reflect reality—they reflect depression’s distorted logic.

In this episode, psychotherapist Barry Winbolt joins us to unpack how depression alters thinking patterns and reinforces hopelessness. He explains how attributional styles, “depression logic,” and internalized shame shape the belief that nothing can change. But change is possible—with awareness, compassion, and the right tools.

Whether you're personally living with depression or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers language, strategies, and hope. Learn how to question what depression tells you, how to shift negative thought loops, and how to gently reframe your internal story—even if you’ve been stuck in it for years.

Primary Topics Covered:

Why depression convinces you that you don’t have it—or that it will never end
The concept of “depression logic” and why it’s so persuasive
How attributional (explanatory) style shapes your belief in depression’s permanence
Understanding the “3 P’s” of depressive thinking: personal, pervasive, and permanent
Why people resist getting help—and why that logic feels convincing
Three evidence-based ways to push back against depressive thoughts
How to coexist with depression rather than be controlled by it
Rewriting your story and reframing self-defeating narratives
Practical tools to challenge hopelessness and reclaim momentum
The emotional power of feeling seen, heard, and understood

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro to the episode and depression’s most dangerous lies
01:19 “You don’t have depression. And you always will.” Why those lies work
02:53 Meet Barry Winbolt: therapist, partner, and lived-experience voice
03:58 What makes “depression logic” so persuasive
04:41 Hopeless reasoning: “Why try, I’ll just get depressed again”
06:25 The three P’s of depressive thinking: personal, pervasive, permanent
08:11 How depressive thinking shapes your identity and future outlook
09:50 Why labels can be helpful—or deeply harmful
11:19 The metaphor of depression as a virus: why it wants to perpetuate itself
12:03 First strategy: Challenge the thought. Ask, “Where’s the evidence?”
12:49 Second strategy: Acknowledge the thought—and act anyway
13:39 Third strategy: Learn to coexist with depression without letting it lead
14:39 Grief, loss, and compartmentalizing pain
15:33 The missing ingredient in healing: personalized conversation
16:23 Changing the narrative to create new meaning
17:21 Reflections from the co-hosts on the episode’s emotional impact
18:29 Real-life applications: using Barry’s metaphors in daily struggles
19:17 Therapist takeaway: sometimes you have to live with depression, not fight it
20:59 Absolutist thinking and the language of depression
21:50 Changing your internal story makes healing possible
22:37 Closing thoughts and reminders for continued support

How to Talk to Kids About a Parent’s Depression: Lessons from Sometimes Daddy Cries May 23, 2023

Show notes

How do you explain depression to a child—especially when it’s their parent who is struggling?

In this moving episode, Todd Rennebohm, author of Sometimes Daddy Cries, shares the deeply personal story behind his children’s book. What began as a near-suicidal night became the seed for a tool that now helps countless families talk about depression in ways children can understand.

Todd, a father living with depression, anxiety, ADHD, and six years of sobriety, opens up about the challenges of parenting with mental illness, the stigma men face in acknowledging their struggles, and why normalizing depression for kids matters so much.

Hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz guide the conversation, exploring how stories like Todd’s break silence, reduce fear, and remind children (and adults) that depression is treatable—and love remains constant.

Link to Todd Rennebohm's book "Sometimes Daddy Cries": https://www.amazon.com/Sometimes-Daddy-Cries-Todd-Rennebohm/dp/0228834678

Primary Topics Covered:

Todd’s journey through depression, sobriety, and near-suicidal moments
The origins of Sometimes Daddy Cries and why he wrote it for his kids
Why “sad” is an entry point but doesn’t capture the depth of depression
Using relatable experiences like tummy aches to explain mental health to children
How hospitalization for depression can be explained in child-friendly terms
The stigma men face when admitting to depression and seeking help
Why open conversations prevent kids from blaming themselves
The book’s impact not only on children but also on parents and partners
Todd’s message: depression is real, treatable, and doesn’t diminish love

Timestamps:

00:11 Introduction and welcome
01:33 Introducing guest Todd Rennebaum, author and father
02:10 The dark night that led to writing Sometimes Daddy Cries
03:46 Choosing honesty and asking for help instead of ending his life
04:22 Why “sad” is both useful and inadequate for describing depression
05:09 Todd describes depression as heavy, endless, and debilitating
06:31 Using tummy aches as a relatable metaphor for children
08:07 How depression, like physical illness, sometimes requires professional help
09:22 Todd shares his experience with hospitalization
10:48 Writing the book as a way of “learning from mistakes” to help others
11:29 How the book resonates with children, partners, and men facing stigma
12:13 Todd’s core message: mental illness is normal, common, and treatable
13:32 The importance of showing kids that love remains constant through struggles
15:35 Co-host reflections on men, stigma, and the need for honesty in families
18:12 How the book helps children reframe anger and depression in their parents
18:48 Closing reflections and encouragement for listeners

Depression and Wellness: Darin Olien on Healing Through Nutrition, Sleep, and Support May 16, 2023

Show notes

In this extended conversation with Darin Olien—wellness expert, bestselling author, and co-host of Down to Earth with Zac Efron—we explore the deep connections between mental health and whole-body wellness.

Darin opens up about his family’s struggles with depression and shares how nutrition, hydration, sleep, and emotional honesty play powerful roles in supporting recovery. From the gut-brain connection to the power of supportive communities, this candid interview offers both practical steps and profound encouragement.

This episode is part of a new extended format where we bring you more of our guests’ voices, stories, and insights.

Link to Darin Olien's website: https://darinolien.com/

Primary Topics Covered:

Darin Olien’s personal connection to depression through his parents’ struggles
The gut-brain connection and how diet impacts mood and resilience
Why unresolved trauma underlies much of our pain
The importance of professional, family, and community support
Simple wellness practices to support mental health (hydration, movement, sleep, light exposure)
Why therapy and honest conversations are essential to healing
The role of nature and circadian rhythms in stabilizing mood
Reframing identity and letting go of limiting self-beliefs
How hydration, sleep, and clean food can reduce stress and restore balance
The importance of hope, dreams, and creating a vision for recovery

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and episode format update
02:00 Darin Olien shares his family’s struggles with depression
04:10 The impact of diet, processed foods, and gut health on depression
07:30 Trauma, pain, and the need for emotional healing
09:48 Building resiliency through professional and community support
11:00 The importance of therapy, honesty, and safe spaces
12:40 Active listening as a tool for connection and healing
14:15 Men’s groups, stigma, and finding supportive communities
18:45 Healing trauma and reframing identity
20:14 Genes, wellness, and the power of lifestyle choices
23:50 The role of sleep and circadian rhythms in mental health
26:14 Food as “nature’s packaged medicine” and making small shifts
30:00 The gut-brain connection and how cravings change with diet
34:22 Parallels between depression and toxic microbes—feeding the positive
35:14 Hydration, energy, and the hidden effects of dehydration
38:35 Practical advice: build a foundation with food, water, sleep, and support
41:17 Closing reflections and invitation for listener feedback

How Wellness Habits Support Depression Recovery: Nutrition, Sleep, and Healing with Darin Olien May 09, 2023

Show notes

Can everyday wellness habits really support depression recovery?

In this inspiring episode, bestselling author and wellness expert Darin Olien (SuperLife, Fatal Conveniences, and Netflix’s Down to Earth with Zac Efron) joins hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz to discuss the profound connection between wellness practices and mental health.

Drawing from his family’s struggles with depression and his own life challenges—including losing his home in the California wildfires—Darin shares how grief, nutrition, hydration, and lifestyle changes all play vital roles in building resilience and supporting recovery.

This conversation blends science, lived experience, and hope, reminding us that while genetics and trauma matter, the daily choices we make about food, sleep, and self-care can profoundly influence our mental well-being.

Link to Darin Olien's website: https://darinolien.com/

Primary Topics Covered:

Darin Olien’s personal experiences with depression in his family
The connection between grief, trauma, and resilience
How ultra-processed foods impact mood, gut health, and brain chemistry
Why hydration is often overlooked but critical for energy and mental clarity
The importance of community, therapy, and safe spaces for honesty
Why unresolved trauma is at the root of much suffering
The power of sleep and circadian rhythms in stabilizing mood
Why genetics account for only ~20% of outcomes, and lifestyle choices for the other 80%
How to give yourself permission to dream and build a life you want
Practical first steps toward wellness when energy feels low

Timestamps

00:11 Welcome and introduction
01:10 Why mental health is often excluded from “wellness” conversations
02:16 Introducing Darin Olien and his work (SuperLife, Fatal Conveniences, Down to Earth)
03:29 Darin shares his family’s struggles with depression
05:37 Coping with grief after losing his father, divorce, and his home in a wildfire
07:19 The courage it takes to feel emotions fully and move through them
08:25 The connection between processed foods, gut health, and depression
09:55 Why unresolved trauma fuels much of our suffering
11:28 The importance of therapy, professional help, and safe spaces
13:01 The power of active listening and men’s groups in healing
15:03 How pain and trauma can be transformed into healing opportunities
16:20 Lifestyle choices that impact depression (nutrition, sleep, hydration)
17:51 Practical tips for nutrition and eating whole foods with limited energy
18:42 Hydration and why dehydration mimics fatigue and low mood
19:41 Darin’s closing advice: seek help and give yourself permission to dream
21:52 Hosts reflect on focusing on what we can control
23:50 Genetics vs. lifestyle: why you have more influence than you think
26:30 Closing reflections and listener invitation for feedback

Living With Bipolar Disorder: Michelle Yang on Stigma, Resilience, and Mental Health Advocacy May 02, 2023

Show notes

What does it take to move from struggling in silence to becoming a mental health advocate?

In this candid episode, writer and advocate Michelle Yang shares her powerful journey of living with bipolar I disorder, from being overlooked as a high-achieving student to experiencing a life-threatening manic episode while studying abroad.

Michelle opens up about her delayed diagnosis, the stigma that kept her silent for years, and the turning point when she realized hiding her condition only reinforced shame. Today, she is a proud advocate, helping others see that life with bipolar disorder can be full, successful, and joyful.

Hosts Terry and Dr. Anita Sanz guide the conversation, exploring what it means to challenge stereotypes, balance treatment, and embrace authenticity while living with a serious mental health condition.

This episode is both eye-opening and deeply validating—reminding us that mental illness does not define us.

Link to Michelle's Blog: www.livingwellhappily.com/

Primary Topics Covered:

Michelle’s childhood pressures as a first-generation immigrant student
Why good grades and achievements often mask serious mental health struggles
Her first major depressive and manic episodes during college abroad
Receiving a bipolar I diagnosis after years of being misdiagnosed
The importance of taking a break from school and finding the right treatment
Returning to school, graduating with distinction, and building a career
How stigma and secrecy limited her confidence and opportunities at work
The turning point: choosing to “come out” about her diagnosis
Challenging myths about bipolar disorder and treatment
Why lived-experience stories are essential to changing stigma

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction and welcome
01:10 Michelle Yang’s immigrant childhood and early responsibilities
01:56 Mental health struggles overlooked due to grades and achievement
03:19 “Good grades ≠ good mental health” — Michelle’s advocacy message
04:15 First major depressive episode and study abroad struggles
05:18 Pressure from her father and a triggering manic episode in Beijing
06:59 Crisis leads to hospitalization and first bipolar diagnosis
08:52 The importance of therapy and taking a break from school
09:33 Returning to school, graduating with honors, and pursuing an MBA
10:17 Building a career while hiding her diagnosis out of fear of stigma
11:10 The personal and professional costs of keeping bipolar a secret
11:18 Challenging misconceptions about bipolar disorder and treatment
12:54 Recognizing the difference between untreated and treated illness
13:12 “Like sucking in your gut for 20 years” — her metaphor for hiding
13:19 Choosing authenticity and becoming a mental health advocate
14:30 Living a full life: mother, professional, and person with bipolar
15:11 Why advocacy matters: breaking silence and stigma
16:53 Stigma persists because we only see people in crisis, not in recovery
17:55 Michelle’s forthcoming memoir: Phoenix Girl: How a Fat Asian Girl With Bipolar Found Love (2024)
18:38 Closing reflections and reminders for listeners

Good Grades and Depression: Why Academic Success Can Hide Teen Mental Illness Apr 25, 2023

Show notes

Can a teen be excelling academically while secretly battling depression or bipolar disorder?

In this revealing episode, Michelle Yang shares her story of being a high-achieving immigrant student who outwardly had it all together—straight A’s, strong work ethic, and responsibility—while silently struggling with anxiety, depression, and undiagnosed bipolar disorder.

Despite begging for therapy as a teenager, Michelle’s struggles were dismissed by adults who believed good grades meant good mental health. Cultural stigma, parental fear of leaving a “permanent record,” and a dismissive doctor’s visit all delayed her diagnosis and treatment for years.

Now a thriving advocate and writer, Michelle uses her experience to shine a light on the dangerous myth that academic performance protects teens from mental illness. Her story reminds us that depression can hide in plain sight—and listening without judgment can save lives.

Link to Michelle's Blog: www.livingwellhappily.com/

Primary Topics Covered:

Michelle’s experience immigrating from Korea and the trauma of cultural adjustment
Taking on adult responsibilities at a young age as a translator and family caretaker
The disconnect between academic achievement and emotional struggles
Early symptoms of bipolar disorder and severe anxiety during high school
Manic episodes, paranoia, and psychotic-like symptoms as a teen
Why teachers and professionals overlooked her needs due to good grades
The crushing shame of feeling “different” and misunderstood
Her parents’ fear of stigma and a “permanent record” blocking college opportunities
A secret doctor visit that ended in dismissal instead of diagnosis
How stigma delayed treatment for years—and the hope of eventual healing

Timestamps

00:11 Introduction and hosts’ reflections
02:01 Michelle’s background as an immigrant from Korea
03:04 Early signs of anxiety and depression in childhood
04:19 Family struggles with cultural and career shifts after immigration
05:26 Becoming a translator and caretaker at age 12
05:40 Pressure from family and the beginnings of depression
05:49 Academic achievement alongside deep anxiety and sleeplessness
06:32 Manic episodes with psychotic-like tendencies
06:42 The shame and fear after manic episodes ended
07:22 Out-of-character behaviors at school and teacher responses
08:13 How teachers and schools excused behavior as “cultural differences”
08:55 Michelle’s confusion and lack of words for her experience
09:59 Asking parents for help and begging for therapy
10:55 Her parents’ fear of stigma and “permanent record” consequences
11:50 A secret doctor visit that ended in dismissal
13:07 The heartbreak of being told she had an “overactive imagination”
13:55 Four more years until she received professional diagnosis and treatment
14:52 Hosts reflect on her resilience and eventual thriving
15:34 Closing thoughts and next week’s continuation of Michelle’s story

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