Show notes
#86: Ken McElroy is our guest today. He's the Rich Dad Advisor for real estate, controls more than 10,000 residential units, and is one of the best-known and most successful real estate investors in the United States. He reveals where he finds his deals today! Learn about how you can profit by acting just like the bank does. Want more wealth? Visit GetRichEducation.com and 1) Subscribe to our free newsletter, and 2) Receive Turnkey RE webinar opportunities. Listen to this week's show and learn: 02:35 Keith brings you today's show from Alyeska Resort in Girdwood, Alaska. 05:50 When real estate prices rise, cap rates fall. 7:58 Can't beat the bank? Then BE the bank. Here's how. 14:16 Why are (uninformed) people still saving money? 18:50 Here's where Ken McElroy is finding his deals today. Primary, secondary, tertiary markets. 24:15 When oil prices fall, how soon does it hurt a real estate market? 28:17 Why Ken avoids buying in the U.S. Northeast, Southeast, and upper Midwest. 34:02 Demographics. 36:42 Self-storage units, mobile home parks, luxury real estate, resorts, office, retail, efficiency apartments. 40:40 So many news articles pertain to real estate somehow. 41:36 KENFlix - Ken's instructional video series. 45:10 Say you've been given $10 million. Here's how to deal with it. Resources Mentioned: Ken McElroy's company KenFlix Corporate Direct Norada Real Estate Coffee@GetRichEducation.com Get Rich Education Website Want a free GRE logo decal? Just write a podcast review; here's how at: iTunes, Stitcher, and Android. Send: 1) A screenshot of your review. 2) Your mailing address to: Info@GetRichEducation.com for your decal. Keith Weinhold: Hey, welcome to GRE. This is Get Rich Education episode 86. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. Here's hoping that you've lived an abundant week. I'm back to help you build wealth for yourself. What we're talking about is very realistic, extra income and life-changing income for the average Joe here and you won't end up as an average Joe. You will be able to do what most people can't because you did what most people wouldn't. Today, we're talking to one of the best known real estate investors in the nation that is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Ken's contributed to our real estate investing education industry with countless real estate investing books both inside and outside the Rich Dad series and at last check, he controlled more than 10,000 real estate units. I recorded Ken and I's chat the other day when I was in Anchorage. Today, I'm bringing you this show from the Alyeska Prince Hotel at the fantastic Alyeska Resort here in the rain-forested, ski community of Girdwood, Alaska. Although summer is in full swing now, this is the premier ski resort in the entire state of Alaska in the winter time. In this time of year, we're enjoying the spa-like amenities, the really luxurious accommodations and there's an aerial tram that will ride up the mountain later today. Really a fantastic scene here at this resort nestled in the Chugach mountains. Now, if you look down lower, you can see tidewater. You can see sea level here and if you look up higher, you can see at least five hanging glaciers from this vantage point. You have the paradox of seeing blue Alaska glaciers but because you're near sea water, you can also see seagulls. Interestingly here in Girdwood, this adjacent forest is recognized as the northernmost rainforest on earth and its climate is distinctly different from that of my home in Anchorage which is just about 40 miles north of here. I think you'll like this Ken McElroy interview today. If you've ever been around Kenny, he's very easy to talk to and by the end of this thing, we're just chatting as I'm throwing questions and ideas out there. He joins me from the Phoenix area today, Scottsdale, Arizona and this is his second Get Rich Education appearance, so here we go. From the early days of managing properties for others, to being a well-known investing guru and successful entrepreneur, Ken McElroy has considerable experience in property management as well as real estate investing in both Phoenix Arizona and across the United States with 26 plus years of elite level experience under his belt. He has offered his fans multiple real estate investing books and is a longstanding Rich Dad advisor to the author of the Rich Dad, Poor Dad series, Robert Kiyosaki. Ken's true passion to educate others has led him to speak internationally on real estate investing, entrepreneurship and the keys to financial freedom. Welcome back to Get Rich Education for your first appearance since you were here on episode 25, Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Ken McElroy: Hi, Keith. Thank you. Great to be on your show again. Keith Weinhold: Hey, it's good to have you back. It was good to see you [inaudible 00:04:57] a few months ago as well. How are things going there? When you think about Ken McElroy, I think about the MC Companies deals that you syndicate. You know what, five years ago, I was thinking, Ken is probably looking at so many deals with prices being run down. He must be going nuts with all these deals and today what do you do? The cap rates have run down so much. I mean, what are you doing if you're not looking for deals or if you still are where are you looking? Ken McElroy: We're definitely looking. We have a full acquisition team out meeting with brokers and flying around looking at markets. It's harder. That's for sure. It actually got harder. The reason cap rates are down is when interest rates started going down. Of course lower interest rates lower cost of debt, more cash flow. The prices started going up and we've been battling this for a few years. It's not something that just came about. Keith Weinhold: Now first of all, that's a paradigm to some people. When a market heats up, sometimes people think, "Oh, well then cap rates must be heating up and going up," but that's actually just the opposite. Sometimes people need to wrap their mind around that since the cap rate is the net operating income divided by the value of a building when that net operating income stays about the same and the building value shoots up faster that lowers one's capitalization rates. Cap rates actually get driven down. I guess my thing is since arbitrage really is the cap rate minus a mortgage interest rate, even if cap rates have been driven down say to six-and-a-half on a building and you can still get a mortgage interest rate at five-and-a-half, that's 1% arbitrage. I mean, wouldn't you still do the deal then? Of course there's going to be a lot of "it depends" factors but even if cap rates have been driven down to a point where they're still higher than mortgage interest rates, do you still go ahead? Do you still look? Ken McElroy: That's a really good question. We look at things a little bit differently. I don't always use the cap rate as a determining factor of whether we buy something. I'll give you an example. I think cap rates are definitely something you need to watch. If you're trying to buy a property that is in really good condition and full, and has a stable operating history, then I think cap rate means something, but if you're buying something that, let's say has a value add component to it and or maybe some occupancy issues, your cap rate is not going to look good because you're going to buy it based on the way the property is performing and the way the rents are currently not necessarily on the future. We do look at cap rate, but mostly we look at cash flow. We start with cash flow and if we can find something that is cash flowing in the first few months of buying it and we can improve it, then of course we've got what would be a true value add. Keith Weinhold: I think what we're basically doing here as a real estate investor where you have a cap rate that exceeds an interest rate, kind of what you're trying to do is be the bank effectively or do what the bank does by borrowing a lower rate and investing at a higher rate. I saw you write a Rich Dad Advisors article recently about how banks work and how we can exploit that as real estate investors. Tell us a little bit about how banks work and how that plays into what a real estate investor does in being the bank. Ken McElroy: Sure. This also ties with your last question about arbitrage. For example, we're in the process of buying a property right now in Mesa, Arizona and the rate that we're projecting, the fixed interest rate is going to be under 4%. This is a quote we actually already have. Rates should be under four fixed and we'll have three years of interest only as part of the loan. You think of the banks, the reason why the interest rates are so low right now is because there's a lot of people saving money. The article that I wrote for Rich Dad was … What happens is money like anything is there's a supply and a demand on money. If there's a lot of money in banks then the only way banks make money is to lend it. That's why they're trying to get everybody in credit card debt. That's why you see all these credit cards. That's why they're doing it with student debt. They're doing it with all kinds of things. They're not doing it right now with the refi. The investor loans and all the cash out refis that they were doing before the subprime crashed, but there's a tremendous pressure on banks to get money out because that is the way that they make money speaking of arbitrage. If let's say somebody has $10,000 in the bank and they're making 1% which I think today would be generous. Keith Weinhold: We're just talking about your everyday depositor. Ken McElroy: Everyday depositor, right. That's an expense to the bank. Keith Weinhold: Right. Now, that's a paradigm for some people. When you put 10,000 in the bank, that is an expense to the bank at that point. Ken McElroy: Correct. Right and that's what I wrote in that article because if you think about it, it's true, right? I mean if you give the bank money, you're going to want interest on it so that's an expense to the bank. Less than 1% is not necessarily very good. Now, the bank has your money and their job is to let it out at say 4 or 5, 6%. That's how banks make money. That's not the only way banks make money but that is a big way that banks make money. Keith Weinhold: An everyday savings depositor might go ahead and deposit their money in the bank and the bank has an obligation at that point to go ahead and pay that depositor 1% and then what the bank is doing is they're turning around and they're loaning it to you like the deal that you just described in Mesa, Arizona for 4%.The bank's arbitrage in that case is 4-1 or 3% and then what you're doing with the 4% at that point, tell us about that and how that arbitrage works for you? Ken McElroy: That's exactly how it works. Exactly. I'm glad you're walking it down this way. Then I borrow the money at four, let's say, I put it into, in this particular case, it's a $35 million apartment deal. Actually the deal is 35 million and we're actually borrowing 28. Now, I'm borrowing 28 million at 4%. Now, I get into the nuts and bolts of how the deal is itself. The deal of course pays for the mortgage but in addition to that, it generates about 7% cash on cash return on the actual investment. People call it loans, but I call it OPM, other people's money because that's what it is. People I think sometimes get confused about money. It's really very simple. If I borrow something from you, you can actually give it to me in a form of equity or you can give it to me in a form of a loan. It's the same with the bank. The difference is the bank is using your money. You can give it to somebody directly or you can give it to the bank and then of course they're dishing it out in the form of equity and debt because banks actually do equities too in some cases, a lot of banks. It's the same thing with a life insurance policy or a 401k or even a pension. Let's say you're a union worker and you pay it to a pension or a teacher or a fireman or a policeman or something like that. That money that you're putting away gets invested. Unfortunately you're giving away all your power and not knowing what it's invested in, but regardless, let's say over a period of a long time, you're putting money into a pension or even a life insurance policy for that matter. The reason why when you get your statements and you see return on that money, it's because it's invested in something. It's not just put into the bank. They're actually physically investing it. Believe it or not, pensions, life insurance companies and banks are all trying to invest in similar things. Keith Weinhold: Right. They're opportunist like we want to be opportunist in a sense when a depositor goes ahead and puts her $10,000 in the bank, that's the bank's problem so the bank has a problem and they're encumbered with those interest payments and they need to flip that around and go ahead and find an investment opportunity to solve that problem. Ken McElroy: That's exactly right. That's why as you watch, it's very interesting to watch how banks compete for deposits. They want deposits. They give away free checking and they give away free toasters or whatever they might do and the people are like, "Oh my god. This is great. I get free checking." What they're really trying to do is get you to open bank accounts so that they can actually use that money to lend it. Keith Weinhold: Really, the genesis of that process is one individual saver and first of all you said there are more people saving these days. Why are they saving more these days? Ken McElroy: I don't think that they've completely understand the system. Keith Weinhold: They definitely don't if they're saving. Ken McElroy: Correct. That's one reason. Also I believe that there's still some hang over from the recession. I live in Phoenix and home prizes are still the inventory and everything that went back to the banks and everything. We're still starting to see home prizes relatively flat even though they've increased a little bit. I think a lot of people got freaked out during the subprime crash. They lost jobs, they lost all the equity in their houses and I think this time around, they're having a little bit more of a cushion which is probably smart. Keith Weinhold: If more people are saving these days, in a sense, that creates more of a problem for the bank if you will because they need to go ahead and get that money reinvested and when more banks have more problems, that's when banks begin to compete for each other and that's probably why you're able to get terms like 4% fixed on the Mesa, Arizona apartment building and three years interest only. In the genesis of that, begins with there being more demand for savers. Ken McElroy: That's exactly right. That's exactly what I would have said. Again, if you can look at it like if there's a … Let's say you live in a town where there's a lot of excess development for houses, the supply of houses are going to keep the prices down and they'll start to do concessions as they try to move through that. It's the same with money. People just don't think of it that way. When there's a lot of money looking for a home, then the price of money goes down and that's what we're seeing…
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