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Four Strings and the Truth — Music
Four Strings and the Truth

“Four Strings and the Truth: The Bassists Who Changed Music” features intimate conversations with players who have changed the course of the music that came after them, and continue to do so. We’ll uncover their four-string mindset – their influences, approach, artistic practice, and how they go about practicing, playing, composing songs, being in a band and living their lives.

Host Sandy Smallens, an indie- and major label-recording artist and bassist of 40-plus years, shines a light on the sometimes unsung (or at least under-sung) heroes who continue to redefine the bass’s role in contemporary music, channeling his experience as a music writer and founder of Spotify’s original content department.

Check out the official pod playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2NJT1Dpc6eGi09uJOuQWKs?si=4d76eeff2b5c4615.

Theme music: “TRIBES” by Surface Wound. To purchase that track, check out: https://surfacewound.bandcamp.com.

Yell at me here: fourstringspod@gmail.com

“Four Strings and the Truth” is an Audiation Original production.

Copyright: © 2024

Latest Episodes:

"Loud Bands Playing Terrible Music" - The Bass-Forward Bands of Caterwaul Sep 22, 2026

Show notes

Normally this show features a famous (at least, famous in our world) bassist we've been listening to for decades. But for today's episode, I went in a different direction.

Back in June of this year, I took my second pilgrimage to the Caterwaul Music Gathering, an underground-noise-punk-whatever weekend-long fest that's taken place in Minneapolis, MN for the last five years. In addition to capturing this episode's snazzy cover photo, I came away extremely amped about a slew of new-to-me bands who were putting the bass front and center and squeezing new sounds out of it.

So in true "FSATT" fashion, I bit off more than I can chew and conducted four interviews…starting with one of the festival's co-founders and curators, musician/podcaster/style maven Conan Neutron.

So here goes a longer-than-usual episode which provides the added benefit of hipping you to some new(ish) bass-forward bands that deserve your attention. Just be glad I didn't try to feature all of them, huh.

Caterwaul on Instagram

"Loud Bands Playing Terrible Music" Stickers and Other Caterwaul Merch

Conan Neutron on Instagram

Conan Neutron & The Secret Friends on Bandcamp

Conan Neutron's Protonic Reversal Podcast

BirdHands on Instagram

BirdHands on Bandcamp

BirdHands "Jungle Boogie" / "The Glow Up" Split Single with Violenteer

BirdHands live at Chicago Music Exchange Video

Burned or Buried on Instagram

Burned of Buried on Bandcamp

Burned or Buried live at Reggie's Video

Baby Gurl on Instagram

Baby Gurl on Bandcamp

Baby Gurl "Smack My Bishop" Video

His Band is Better Than Your Band with Damien Sayell (Mclusky, The St. Pierre Snake Invasion) May 07, 2026

Show notes

Coming to you live and direct from the posh green room of Brooklyn club Warsaw, we sit down with gentle giant/Mclusky bassist and singer Damien Sayell, who's been in the band more than a decade now and is finally feeling like a full-fledged member. Find out how hearing the band's 2002 classic, "Mclusky Do Dallas," changed his life at the tender age of 18; what it's been like participating in the glow up of one of noise/punk's most essential power trios; and how one of the band's best new songs was composed by his three-year-old son, Magnus.

Mclusky on Bandcamp (https://mcluskymclusky.bandcamp.com/)

The St. Pierre Snake Invasion on Bandcamp (https://tspsi.bandcamp.com/)

Damien's photo-rich Instagram account (https://www.instagram.com/damiencsayell/)

Magnus's moment of genius (https://www.instagram.com/reels/DVx2zasNnTj/)

An explosive live-in-the-studio set from FRET12 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNf3ls53rM0)

Upcoming tour dates around the world (https://ipecac.com/tours/) - scroll to "Mclusky"

Feeling Minnesota Nice with Greg Norton (Hüsker Dü, Ultrabomb, Buddies) Aug 11, 2025

Show notes

We continue to tick off the bucket list, player by player. In the wake of a trip to Minneapolis for the Caterwaul Festival, we chat with Minnesota's favorite son, Greg Norton - who filled his time in-between Hüskers tours as a chef, eventually opening an eponymous restaurant. After going 14 years without touching a bass, and surviving a health scare, Greg is back in the driver's seat: he's got his rejiggered super-trio UltraBomb; a Greg Norton + Buddies tour in which fellow travelers can jump on stage and sing the Hüskers song of their choice; and the debut of his very own signature bass! We also announce the winner of our IdiotBox Effects Blower Box Deluxe pedal - tune in to find out if you're gonna be bathing your tone in distortion. Hüsker Dü on Bandcamp (https://huskerdu.bandcamp.com/music) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/16bN8mhtDFdegWbg0z3s10?si=4Aycdgk-QamjQk43e_fdxg) UltraBomb on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/ultrabombmusic/), Bandcamp (https://ultrabomb.bandcamp.com/) and Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/4u2NU0NKwALURZY2qvtYQb?si=_JkfJPB2RAKRD1yT7DmauA) Greg Norton Tour info (https://www.songkick.com/artists/2924031-greg-norton/calendar) Hüsker Dü Live in London 1985 (includes a great version of "Diane") (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CphIHzsxduY) UltraBomb's YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXttjijPvr-QXDwevC5Iqdg) Caterwaul Festival in Minneapolis (go next year!) (https://www.caterwaul.org/)

Certain Fate Foretold with Clint Conley (Mission of Burma, consonant) Jul 17, 2025

Show notes

Not exactly nine lives, but the quintessentially Boston band Mission of Burma has had at least two: their initial 1979-1983 foray, which yielded such classics as "That's When I Reach For My Revolver," "Academy Fight Song" and "That's When I Escaped My Certain Fate"; and an unlikely reunion in the early 2000s, yielding some equally influential albums as well as as a definitive bio-pic, "Not a Photograph: The Mission of Burma Story" in 2006. Through it all, bassist, vocalist and songwriter Clint Conley has persisted, holding the same media gig for over 35 years (!) and raising a family in the wooded environs outside of Boston. Tune in to hear how this sage bassist and song architect found his sound, and continues to hew to the minimalist stylings of spindly bass lines in outings with the Chris Brokaw Rock Band, among others.

ALSO! You have until 7/31/25 to enter to win a "like new" (seriously, I played it once) IdiotBox Effects Blower Box Deluxe pedal (video review here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt6URsuLhD4). This is an amazing, bass-specific distortion pedal, with clean signal blend and a low-pass filter - so it will stick out nicely in live settings. It will arrive in its original box with 3M Dual Lock strips on the back, so it's ready for your pedal board.

To enter the contest, please send a screenshot of you recommending one episode of this podcast - your favorite interview - in a publicly viewable place - it can be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or any social media outlet. Send the screenshot to: fourstringspod@gmail.com, and we'll pick one winner at random on 7/31/25. Please note that previous winners of one of our contests are not eligible for this one.

We thank the entrants so far - who hail from around the globe - and encourage you to shoot your shot as well.

Mission of Burma on Bandcamp (https://missionofburmamusic.bandcamp.com/music)

Mission of Burma on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/5UMQV83wwZCCvRSQCVjZw6?si=1eSFR-5UQRqhuLz14sDIsQ)

consonant on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/07xPqvLLSdQTw0Go6sJdk8?si=Su_5kyY0Q0-uRy-cKUqp6Q)

"Not a Photograph: The Mission of Burma Story" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14bGcdg2eQo)

"Chronicle" on WCVB-TV in Boston (https://www.wcvb.com/chronicle)

"Academy Fight Song" by 'Mission of Brokaw' (featuring Peter Prescott and Chris Brokaw) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHko_-sGj-Y)

Mission of Burma live at the Williamsburg Waterfront in 2009 with Clint, Peter and Roger all wearing sunglasses at some point (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiMc7RftWa0)

Win a "Like New" IdiotBox Effects Blower Box Deluxe! Jul 07, 2025

Show notes

We've launched a contest to win a "like new" (seriously, I played it once) IdiotBox Effects Blower Box Deluxe pedal. This is an amazing, bass-specific distortion pedal, with clean signal blend and a low-pass filter - it sticks out nicely in live settings. It will arrive in its original box with 3M Dual Lock strips on the back, so it's ready for your pedal board.

To enter the contest, please send a screenshot of you recommending one episode of this podcast - your favorite interview - in a publicly viewable place - it can be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or any social media outlet. Send screenshots to: fourstringspod@gmail.com and we'll pick one winner at random on 7/31/25. Please note that previous winners of one of our contests are not eligible for this one.

Better Bass-ing with Nate Brenner (Tune-Yards, Naytronix) Jun 26, 2025

Show notes

Nate Brenner has been playing music in front of people since he was four, and it shows. He and his musical/life partner Merrill Garbus have carved out a unique place in the indie-pop cosmos: funky, joyful, noisy and heartfelt. Between tours supporting Tune-Yards' just-released sixth album, "Better Dreaming," Nate spends some time with us to unspool his unique approach to the instrument, touching on his musical upbringing, the group's warts-and-all aesthetic, and their compelling ability to carry out live performances of their complex songs as a duo. This is a portrait of artists figuring things out in real time, whether live on stage or in the copious scores they've composed for Boots Riley's various projects.

Tune-Yards on Bandcamp (https://tune-yards.bandcamp.com)

Tune-Yards live dates (https://tune-yards.com/tour/)

Naytronix on Bandcamp (https://naytronix.bandcamp.com/)

Nate's Dad Craig Brenner's latest album "Passages," (featuring Merrill Garbus) (https://www.craigbrenner.com/music)

A partial list of cool musicians who went to Oberlin (https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2017/10/bands_and_musicians_you_didnt.html)

An Archive of Merrill Garbus's songwriting workshop at School of Song (https://schoolofsong.org/products/songwriting-workshop-with-merrill-garbus-of-tune-yards-copy)

Today, we're launching a month-long contest to win a "like new" (seriously, I played it once) IdiotBox Effects Blower Box Deluxe pedal (video review here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt6URsuLhD4). This is an amazing, bass-specific distortion pedal, with clean signal blend and a low-pass filter - so it will stick out nicely in live settings. It will arrive in its original box with 3M Dual Lock strips on the back, so it's ready for your pedal board.

To enter the contest, please send a screenshot of you recommending one episode of this podcast - your favorite interview - in a publicly viewable place - it can be Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or any social media outlet. Send screenshots to: fourstringspod@gmail.com, and we'll pick one winner at random on 7/31/25. Please note that previous winners of one of our contests are not eligible for this one.

They're Not Booing, They're Only Yelling "Lou" with Lou Barlow (Dinosaur Jr, Sebadoh, The Folk Implosion) Jun 13, 2025

Show notes

We're kicking (Mini-)Season 2 off with one of our most-requested guests, Lou Barlow - a four string lifer (on bass, ukelele, guitar, etc.) and amiable fellow who's not afraid to lay bare his thoughts on all things Dinosaur Jr, his unique approach to making music, and his various creative endeavors, from childhood cassette experimentation to becoming a successful podcaster alongside his wife, Adelle.

Lou Barlow on Bandcamp (https://loubarlow.bandcamp.com/)

Dinosaur Jr on Bandcamp (https://dinosaurjr.bandcamp.com/)

Sebadoh on Bandcamp (https://sebadoh.bandcamp.com/)

Folk Implosion on Bandcamp (https://thefolkimplosion.bandcamp.com/)

Barlow Family General Store (https://barlowfamilygeneralstore.com/)

RAW Impressions with Lou Barlow and Adelle Barlow on Spotify (podcast) (https://open.spotify.com/show/5H0j91I0qabIiBqv9nX0yy?si=87bb8b29b2404638)

Bob Mould and Dinosaur Jr "In a Free Land (Live)" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLRhqfDbl2U&t=2s)

Henry Rollins and Dinosaur Jr "Don't (Live)" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RPh7dpN4Do)

Kevin Shields and Dinosaur Jr "Thorn (Live)" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPudLhOn7Y)

The Music Machine "Wrong" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IAlVz07TpM)

Coming Soon: (The Monosyllabic Mini-)Season 2 Jun 02, 2025

Show notes

We have a clutch of new shows coming very soon with names you might expect...or not.

"Cool World" by Chat Pile: The Bass-ic Review Mar 03, 2025

Show notes

As we gear up for our next season of Four Strings and the Truth interviews, we're introducing a new, more bite-sized feature: the Bass-ic Review. This is an analysis of new and recently released albums from the bottom up - i.e., from the point of view of the bass: the playing AND the player. And to kick things off, we're focusing on the much-anticipated new album from Oklahoma City noise mavens Chat Pile, "Cool World."

Bassist Stin, who co-writes the tunes and has served as de facto producer, puts in the work on the new collection, which is earning huzzahs from fans of loud music across the punk-metal-alt-noise spectrum. Let's find out how he makes Chat Pile tick.

Chat Pile (https://chatpile.bandcamp.com/)

Chat Pile Tour Dates (https://chatpile.net/shows)

Chat Pile AMA (Ask Me Anything) on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1g5abvq/we_are_okc_noise_rockers_chat_pile_ama/)

"Prayer To God" by Shellac (https://shellac.bandcamp.com/track/prayer-to-god)

The Tronographic Rusty Box (https://www.tronographic.com/store/p/rusty-box)

Chat Pile Covers Nirvana's "Scentless Apprentice" (https://youtu.be/N2_K13LlROQ?si=JETn-VfUO6vDTbf-)

"We are the most underrated and yet most important members of any band" with Brian Ritchie (Violent Femmes) Mar 03, 2025

Show notes

Brian Ritchie is our first guest whose primary instrument - the one that helped make his band Violent Femmes a household name - is an acoustic bass. Today we hear how all that came to be, the band's path from busking on the streets of Milwaukee to rocking stadiums, and why their approach really hasn't changed all that much. Along the way he tells some funny stories about early gigs, opens up about a new acoustic bass he's gotten his hands on and even shares what Flea told him about working with producer Michael Beinhorn.

Also - and this will make sense after you listen - here are two updates to things I say in this episode:

My amazing engineer/mixer Matt Noble pointed me to lutefish.com, a hardware-software set-up that does enable near real-time jamming over distances less than 500 miles. I haven't tried it out, because it requires being hardwired to my modem and that's too far away from my basses.
Parquet Courts' (fantastic) bassist Sean Yeaton doesn't play a stock short scale bass - it's a frankenbass made up of the body and pickups of an '84 Fender Bullet bass (short scale) and the neck of a '50s P-Bass reissue (standard scale). It also has a weird hole in it.

Violent Femmes (https://open.spotify.com/artist/0rpMdBzQXf7aYRnu5fDBJy?si=XfFHPeSkTUyqNHhdWKdAgQ)

Brian Ritchie's solo stuff (https://open.spotify.com/artist/5VlujeJlkf1SEspNUbdhq8?si=pREJiCIQQJKztGtRFon1Og)

Big Johnson Basses (https://bigjohnsonbass.com/) - Brian Ritchie's next new favorite bass? And here's a video demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KeWe0KUznk) by its creator.

Guitars For Vets (https://guitars4vets.org) - a very cool charity, check it out

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