For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

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**For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast**

New York Times bestselling author Jen Hatmaker has arrived in the middle years, and she couldn’t be happier about it.Jen has navigated the ins and outs of life, from career to parenting, marriage (and divorce), spiritual evolution, and the joys of being a hardcore Gen Xer.With each weekly episode, Jen serves as our “everywoman” guide to all the seasons, past, present, and future, as she walks excitedly and tenaciously into the second half of life.Some weeks, Jen brings her perspective straight to you, just her and the mic, talking through the things we’re all navigating. Other weeks, she pulls up a chair for some of the most interesting and accomplished guests around, plus a few of her favorite friends, bringing insight, expertise, and a whole lot of heart to the most relevant topics of our time.While Jen has plenty of wisdom to share (and some pretty hilarious stories, too), she doesn’t claim to know it all. From her honest solo reflections to her compelling conversations with guests, she’s here to reassure you that you’re not alone in this game of life.It’s “For the Love” of all that is good, justified, exasperating, exhilarating, real, fun, and so much more.

Latest Episodes:

Melinda French Gates on The Next Day and the Beauty in What Comes Next Apr 16, 2025

Show notes

I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Jessica N. Turner on Loss, Identity, and Hope” Apr 11, 2025

Show notes

Description:

In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt.

Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Nothing about what I thought my life was going to be, is my life now. Now I feel like I walk around in the world and I feel grief and loss and disappointment and dismay from everybody. It’s amazing how my eyes have opened. It was a big awakening to the loss people are living with everyday.–Jessica N. Turner

When we made the decision to divorce, I felt like I was sitting on the floor of hell, everything was dust, everything was different.–Jessica N. Turner

No matter how devastating the loss, the life you can still rebuild is astonishing. – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Say Anything film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098258/

Sixteen Candles film (1984) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088128/

Cameron Crowe - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001081/

John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/

James Spader - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/

Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/

I Go Crazy by Flesh for Lulu - https://open.spotify.com/track/2o1AevEuv39qZAVy6k2pmn

The Breakfast Club film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/

Weird Science film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305

Ferris Bueller’s Day Off film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091042/

Planes, Trains and Automobiles film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/

Uncle Buck film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098554

Pretty in Pink film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091790

Beethoven film (1992) - https://www.imd ...

Midlife Isn’t a Crisis, It’s a Comeback: Maddie Corman on Being Accidentally Brave Apr 09, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie's personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn.

In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss:

How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back
What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!)
What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today
What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU
Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis
What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources!
Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“After a really big trauma that I thought was going to destroy my children, it turns out, they are thriving, and funny, and sensitive, and smart, and caring, and annoying, and they love me, and I drive them crazy, I’m sure. I share that because I feel like that was what saved my life was somebody who had been through something similar saying my kids are going to be okay.” – Maddie Corman
“When you lose your mother, people bring a meatloaf over. But when your husband's arrested and you say ‘I think he's a sex addict and a porn addict,’ there's no meal train that's coming for that.” – Maddie Corman
“I had lived 47 years when this happened and I had never met another person who had gone through anything like this. P.S. It turns out I had. They just didn't share about it.” – Maddie Corman
“You inch your way back to the sunshine and it's so slow. And at the beginning you just think, everything's ruined; I'll just never be happy again so let me cobble together some sad life that just gets me to the finish line. But the truth is, it's stunning how much we can recover.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/
John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/?ref_=fn_all_nme_1
Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/
Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/
Elizabeth Gilbert - https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/
Accidentally Brave Play - https://www.maddiecorman.com/accidentally-brave
Accidentally Brave on MAX - https://play.max.com/movie/b19ce99f-93c8-4150-ba0d-139e12048efe
Partner Betray Counsel ...

March 2025: Amanda Peters’ The Berry Pickers Apr 04, 2025

Show notes

Description:

This month’s JHBC selection, The Berry Pickers, by Nova Scotian author Amanda Peters has found a particularly receptive audience within book club communities, including the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, for exploring universal human emotions and experiences, and for examining unique cultural perspectives. By masterfully blending her father's compelling stories as a Maine berry picker with her own extensive career in Indigenous governance, The Berry Pickers delves into a unique and original plot surrounding a Mi’kmaw family that grapples with the corrosive effects of guilt and shame, and the possibility of redemption. Peters reveals how the debut novel initially took shape as a short story, but as the beautifully-flawed characters and tendrilled themes began to unfold, the narrative organically expanded into the full-fledged novel that it is now, which has been translated into an impressive 22 languages and has been awarded the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

I couldn't have written this story when I was 21 because I didn’t have all of the life experience that I have now. – Amanda Peters
Fiction readers are just better people because literature is about the human condition; it helps us develop empathy. – Amanda Peters
I love the writing process. I love creating a story. I love that high you get when you get it just right, when a sentence does exactly what I want it to do. – Amanda Peters

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Berry Pickers: A Novel by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hAYfUM
Waiting for the Long Night Moon: Stories by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hGNTTw
John Steinbeck books - https://amzn.to/4c1B1pJ
John Steinbeck Center - https://steinbeck.org/
Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction - https://www.ala.org/carnegie-medals/2024-winners
Pearly Everlasting: A Novel by Tammy Armstrong - https://amzn.to/420or5r
All the Young Men by Ruth Coker Burks - https://amzn.to/420oT3D
What Strange Paradise: A novel by Omar El Akkad - https://amzn.to/4kXs8l6

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://amandapetersauthor.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amandapetersauthor/

Twitter - https://x.com/amandapetersaut?lang=en

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

Reclaiming Your Power: Moms Demand Action’s Shannon Watts on Living a Life of Passion and Purpose Apr 02, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Today’s guest, Shannon Watts, has come to be known as a formidable force in the world. As the founder of Moms Demand Action, the largest grassroots movement against gun violence formed after the Sandy Hook school shooting tragedy in 2012, her activism has mobilized millions of moms to successfully pass over 500 gun safety laws. As Amy poignantly stated, Shannon’s work “has legitimately made a tangible impact on the safety of my kids in their classrooms”, demonstrating the profound significance of Shannon’s contributions.

Watts has since shifted her time and attention to empowering women, whom she credits as the real changemakers in any movement. She has founded the Firestarter School, a platform designed to help women reclaim their power and has a forthcoming book, Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, releasing in the summer of 2025, which explores the necessary elements needed to ignite a fire in your life and pursue your passion and purpose.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When you get involved in something like activism, it helps you realize that you have all of this untapped power. And it does give you the audacity to become a firestarter, to prioritize your desires over your obligations. – Shannon Watts
Right out of college, I married my college sweetheart at 23-years-old. By the time I was 29, I had three children. I have a job I don’t love. By my mid-thirties, I realized, this is not the person I would have chosen to be. I was having a difficult time acknowledging that I was living a life that was not true to me. – Shannon Watts
So many women keep collecting new fuel, acquiring new skills, waiting for the other pieces to come together. And we’re prepared when the opportunity presents itself. – Amy Hardin
Society shoulders women with so many burdens so she doesn’t have room to explore her desires. If you’re going to claim space, raise your voice, you are going to get blowback. The direct proportion of how much you can grow your fire corresponds to how much blowback you're willing to withstand. – Shannon Watts
Remind yourself of your wins everyday, whether they’re your wins or wins for what you want to see in the world. Give yourself hope and affirmation. – Shannon Watts
Fighting for your safety and your rights is a form of self-care and a form of protection for other people. – Shannon Watts

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Camino Made (B.T. Harman’s Camino de Santiago pilgrimage company) - https://caminomade.com/
Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hEYE8K
Fight Like a Mother: How a Grassroots Movement Took on the Gun Lobby and Why Women Will Change the World by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hFP31t
5 Calls App - https://5calls.org/
Firestarter University - https://shannonwatts.org/firestarter-university/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://momsdemandaction.org/shannon-watts/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannonrwatts/

Twitter - https://x.com/shannonrwatts

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fightlikeamother.org

Substack - https://shannonwatts.substack.com/ ...

Title: From Prince to Parenting: Tamron Hall on Style, Stories, and Strength Mar 28, 2025

Show notes

The best adventures are often found when we embrace curiosity. That’s a lesson that Tamron Hall has learned in her storied career as a cultural icon, Emmy-winning talk show host, and broadcast journalist, as well as in her role as a young parent to a son with a shy but investigative nature to explore the world around him.

In today’s conversation, Tamron talks to Jen and Amy about that curiosity and why it is a trait that should be celebrated and nurtured, both in our children and in ourselves. They talk about the many cultural treasures that already exist right in our own neighborhoods, if we open ourselves up to the beauty of exploring new places and faces.

And, Tamron also shares details with Amy and Jen about her latest labor of love, the children’s book that she just released called Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid, an endearing story inspired by her real-life son and his adventure visiting Harlem's most iconic spots, learning a valuable lesson about the meaning of home.

***

Thought-provoking Quotes:

Things that are authentic tend to come easy but that doesn't mean that the process isn’t challenging. – Tarmron Hall
As adults, through our urgency, we can rush our children through great opportunities of curiosity. – Tamron Hall
I was very worried when my son presented as shy. Shy kids, especially boys, can be steeped into tropes and stereotypes of what a shy kid is. It forced me to talk more openly about my own social anxieties. – Tamron Hall
The best of my journey as a reporter was opening my eyes to the cultural difference and nuances of neighborhoods. – Tamron Hall
Storytelling is something that we all have the ability to do. When you tell it from your heart and from an authentic space, it can resonate. It transcends gender, economics. It transcends everything. – Tamron Hall

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Prince - https://www.prince.com/

The Tamron Hall Show - https://tamronhallshow.com/

Jen Hatmaker Gets Real About Healing After Divorce on The Tamron Hall Show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkm0RqfRYMI

As the Wicked Watch: The First Jordan Manning Novel by Tamron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hnc8qn

Harlem Honey: The Adventures of a Curious Kid by Tarmron Hall - https://amzn.to/4hJEuea

Deadline: Crime With Tamron Hall - https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/show/deadline-crime-with-tamron-hall-investigation-discovery

The TODAY Show - https://www.today.com/

Sisterwives Tell All - https://www.tlc.com/shows/sister-wives/episodes/sister-wives-tell-all

Ebony Glenn, Illustrator - https://www.ebonyglenn.com/

100 Mighty Dragons All Named Broccoli by David LaRochelle - https://amzn.to/4jOvGFz

Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume - https://amzn.to/3CCSsjc

Billie Holliday - https://billieholiday.com/

The Apollo Theater - https://www.apollotheater.org/

A Confident Cook: Recipes for Joyous, No-Pressure Fun in the Kitchen by Tamron Hall and Lish - https://amzn.to/3ErTZJq

Midlife Renaissance: Reclaiming the Conversation about Our Bodies and Menopause with Dr. Louise Newson Mar 26, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Today, Jen and Amy have an intimate conversation with preeminent perimenopausal and menopausal specialist and women’s health advocate, Dr. Louise Newson, who has been described as the “medic who kickstarted the menopause revolution” for her commitment to increasing awareness and knowledge about hormones, perimenopause and menopause through her books, podcast, and educational videos on social media.

In this candid and enlightening conversation, we discuss:

The biggest misconceptions women have about menopause including understanding the array of symptoms that can be attributed to it
How the conversations our mothers and grandmothers had (or didn’t have) about menopause are evolving
The discussions we should be having with our doctors about our health and symptoms but aren’t, either due to shame or lack of information
Important steps we can take now to minimize our menopausal symptoms later
Treatment options to alleviate our perimenopause/menopause symptoms once they begin, including hormone replacement therapy
And, why it’s imperative for policymakers, insurers, employers, and doctors of all specialties to be part this conversation

Thought-provoking Quotes:

What’s going wrong or right in this [menopause/perimenopause] conversation is that women are understanding this faster than their healthcare professionals are. – Dr. Louise Newson
I’ve been taking hormones now for 9 years but the dose of estrogen I need, I cannot get from my NHS GP and I am white, I’m middle-class, I’m middle-class, and English-speaking. If I’m struggling, what does that mean for the majority of people globally? They're not having a voice and they’re struggling. – Dr. Louise Newson
Menopause lasts forever (i.e. until the day we die). It's not just something to get you through until the next job interview, or the next phase of your life, or the next relationship. It is forever. You have to make sure the [treatment] choice you make is right for you. – Dr. Louise Newson
Hormones are good but they’re not going to help me as much as if I look after myself. – Dr. Louise Newson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Definitive Guide to the Perimenopause and Menopause by Dr. Louise Newson- https://amzn.to/3Rf4LFQ

Newson Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre - https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/book-an-appointment/

Balance App - https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/

The Dr. Louise Newson Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.drlouisenewson.co.uk/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/menopause_doctor/

Twitter - https://x.com/drlouisenewson

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@menopause_doctor

Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/7dCctfyI9bODGDaFnjfKhg?si=b382cda4537246d5&nd=1&dlsi=b4764565942d4037

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Introducing The Women’s Hoops Show Mar 24, 2025

Show notes

Women’s basketball is on the rise and The Women’s Hoops Show is here for every buzzer-beater, breakout star, and game-changing moment. Join host Jordan Robinson as she dives deep into the WNBA, college hoops, and the rise of new leagues like Unrivaled to bring you insightful conversations with players, coaches, and analysts. If you love women’s basketball, this is your year-round home for the biggest stories in the game.

SXSW2025 Edition: The Future of Education with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson Mar 21, 2025

Show notes

In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape.

Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education.

Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners.

Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it.

School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued.

Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We don’t believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

“Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don’t take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

“Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker

“The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu

Guest’s Links:

Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults.

Website - https://www.wgu.edu/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/

Twitter - https://x.com/wgu

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu

Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html

Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Tw ...

Loud-Quitting, Zero Damns, and Midlife Glow-Ups: Bits of Wisdom from the For the Love Listening Community Mar 19, 2025

Show notes

Description:

In the spirit of Spring Break, which it is for us here in Texas, we’re taking a quick break from our regular podcast lineup to do something fun. Recent listeners of the podcast will know that we’ve added a voicemail feature to the podcast and, for a few weeks, we’ve been asking you to leave us messages with your thoughts on recent episodes and questions for us. And boy you have! The messages we’ve received run the gamut from candid and vulnerable to gutsy and inspirational and some were just hilarious (though not all of them were appropriate for the airwaves but we still love them so KEEP THEM COMING).

Today, we’re responding to a few of our favorite messages from women in our listening community who shared messages that we think will resonate with you on multiple levels. Our thanks to Naomi, Mollie, Jamie, Laura, and one special anonymous caller for sharing their thoughts for all of us to enjoy.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

"We need to wear what we feel comfortable in, what we feel pretty in. There are no rules!" – Listener Voicemail
“I broke up with my effort last week. I literally sat myself down and said, ‘I am not responsible for making this person happy.’” – Jen Hatmaker
"Loud quitting is about being clear, setting boundaries, and walking away from what no longer serves you—without apology." – Amy Hardin
"Once we stop our frantic interventions to manage someone else’s life, it turns out, that’s when they start to do their own work—even our kids." – Jen Hatmaker
“There is no such thing as ‘too late.’ We are only getting more time and space to dream new dreams.” – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Devil Wears Prada film (2006) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/
Warning poem by Jenny Joseph - https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/warning/
Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-56/freedom-from-codependency-with-melody-beattie/
Finding Freedom with Mel Robbins and Two Little Words: Let Them - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/finding-freedom-with-mel-robbins-and-two-little-words-let-them/
Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/4hkHNb7
Awaken to Your Next Chapter: Artist and Activist Lisa Congdon on Imagining a More Beautiful Life - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/awaken-to-your-next-chapter-artist-and-activist-lisa-congdon-on-imagining-a-more-beautiful-life/
Sacred Reimagination: When Faith Evolves with You: Erin Hicks Moon - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/sacred-reimagination-when-faith-evolves-with-you-erin-hicks-moon/
Jane Fonda - https://www.janefonda.com/
Saturday Night Live 50th Anniversary Special - https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/snl-50-anniversary-special-how-watch-time-cast-rcna191588
Stuart Smalley - https:/ ...

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