For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Secrets of Adulthood: Gretchen Rubin on Living a Happier, Simpler Life May 28, 2025

Show notes

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature.

Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.

“What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.”
“Outer order contributes to inner calm.”
“A strong voice repels as well as attracts.”
“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.”
And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.”

Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel. Anyone want to take bets?

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Happier people are more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin
“Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin
“There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin
“When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/
Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF
The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/
David Sedaris
The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox
The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/
The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg
The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF
5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/
Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/

Title: Maggie Smith on Art and the Gift of Our Attention May 21, 2025

Show notes

Description:

…

We need art and beauty now more than ever

We need creators to create

And Jen admits to being a metaphor whore

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“The thing that really kept me going was writing. Writing was the way that I came home to myself.” – Maggie Smith
8:00 Nobody wants my cookbook. The next step will be call Doordash – Maggie Smith
9:00 Every decision you make is a creative decision.
10:15 I always want to grab people by the shoulders….
13:45 Even if you’re not a writer, if you have a good therapist, they’ll probably tell you to write.
27:15 The quality of your attention in the world is your gift.
31:00 I am so grateful that people make things
35:00 I may look like I’m alone when I’m writing
35:30 I think it’s important to debunk the myth of the solo creator (similar to the tortured artist)
42:00 I would hate for people to think that fully formed poems come out. Just get it down.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/42EPzrc
Sturgill Simpson - https://sturgillsimpson.com/
Good Bones poem by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones
Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Gal2Kd
Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-36/moving-forward-after-pain-rips-your-script-maggie-smith/
The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-54/the-friendships-that-save-us-maggie-smith/
The Dear Writer Book Tour - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/dear-writer-book-tour/
You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Ep8sWK
Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/42yKoJi
Joan Didion – https://www.joandidion.org/
My Life by Lynn Hejinian - https://amzn.to/3Eo6J40
Sayeed Jones - https://www.readsaeedjones.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/

Twitter - https://x.com/maggiesmithpoet

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/maggiesmithpoet

Substack - https://maggiesmith.subs ...

Introducing: Aspire with Emma Grede May 20, 2025

Show notes

Build the life of your dreams and learn from the world’s most successful people.

Emma Grede, one of America’s richest self-made women - wants you to make the most of your life. On ‘Aspire with Emma Grede', learn through thought-provoking conversations with some of the most successful and smartest minds on the planet.

Each episode will unpack their habits, philosophy and strategies, covering career advice, well-being, psychology and of course how to win in business. The show offers personal stories, data-driven advice, real-world strategies, and the experience you need, to turn your dreams into reality.

A Celebration of the Women Who Made Us This Way: Melissa Radke Returns to the For the Love Podcast May 14, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Melissa Radke is the best friend you never knew you always wanted with a Texas-sized heart and sense of humor to match. She’s also an author, speaker, TV personality, and For the Love fan-favorite, best known for her gut-busting sense of humor, deep honesty, and fierce Southern sass. Melissa first gained a national following with her viral videos about parenting and real life, which led to a reality show (The Radkes) and a bestselling book (Eat Cake. Be Brave.) A fierce advocate for women finding their voice—especially in midlife—Melissa brings laughter and tears to everything she touches. Her newest project, Chicken Fried Women, a collection of stories (with a companion podcast series) celebrates the women—battered on the outside, tender on the inside, some salty, some spicy—who made us who we are.

In this life-giving conversation filled with snort-laughs and tears, we talk about:

The incredible women who raised us, taught us, prayed for us, and even humbled us when we needed it most
The stories that have become legend in our families—Melissa tells a story about her Aunt Melba helping her mother with fastening her girdle in a cramped church bathroom stall that left Jen and Amy in stitches
The friends who have shown up for us in times of crisis with remedies and solutions that we never could have fathomed for ourselves

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I have always thought that people who have an innate gift to find and communicate humor, even in the midst of sorrow, possess a gift of healing. And I can’t number how many times I have been on the other side of someone else’s gift of humor and it has restored me in a way that literally nothing else could.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Don’t waste another second being around someone who makes you feel like you’re too much. Go sit at a different table. Find a different circle.” – Melissa Radke
“I am fully committed, as committed as I am to Christ, to the moo-moo. I make no apologies and I thank the person who rebranded it by calling it a kaftan.” – Melissa Radke

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Eat Cake & Be Brave: The Funny Formula For Life With Melissa Radke - https://bit.ly/4j29Yxm
Fierce, Free & Full of Questions: Melissa Radke Gets Jen to Tell it All - https://bit.ly/4lkzm2Q
The Radkes - https://www.usanetwork.com/the-radkes
Saturday Night Live’s Five Timer’s Club - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/snl-fiver-timers-club-member-hosts
Chicken-Fried Women: Friendship, Kinship, and the Women Who Made Us This Way by Melissa Radke - https://amzn.to/3FS6azY
The Chicken Fried Women Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast
Erma Bombeck - https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL
Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/
Tina Fey - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0275486/
Amy Poehler - https://www.imdb.com ...

Encore Matrescence: Unraveling the Myths and Realities of Being a Mother with Lucy Jones May 09, 2025

Show notes

Description:

…Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.

Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises.

Jen and Lucy discuss:

The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes
How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues
The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence
The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence

* * *

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Matrescence by Lucy Jones – Read here

Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones – Read here

Losing Eden by Lucy Jones – Read here

Dana Raphael (American Anthropologist) – Learn more

“The Birth of a Mother” by Alexandra Sacks (NYT article) – Read here

2017 NIH Study on Pregnancy and the Brain – Read here

Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich – Read here

Andrea O’Reilly (Motherhood scholar) – Learn more

Guest’s Links:

Lucy’s Website: lucyfjones.com
Lucy’s X: @lucyjones
Instagram: @lucyfjones
Facebook: Lucy Jones Books

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle Remind Us That We Can Do Hard Things May 07, 2025

Show notes

Description:

In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.

In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions.

Some of the conversations they delve into include:

Why are we like this?
How do we figure out what we really want?
How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?
Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?
Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I'm just trying to remain a human in this political environment, in this place of deep fear where so much is at risk. And I think the way we do that is continuing to see each other as human and continuing to let our hearts break over what should break our hearts.” – Amanda Doyle
“Having played on many different teams, I'm well suited to work well with others. I just have to be here and be myself. That is the way that I add value. I am not gonna add value in the way that Glennon and Amanda do. I know that. But that doesn't give me any lack of confidence because I know I bring something to the team.” – Abby Wambach
“After 400 or so conversations, it was so wild that, whether we were talking to a person who's been a therapist for 40 years, or a person who's a poet, or a person who's an activist, there were just a handful of questions that all of these people are struggling with. The smartest people in the world are trying to figure out the same things that we are.” – Amanda Doyle

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Forward: A Memoir by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4ckZOFi
WOLFPACK: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4cpazqg
We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle - https://amzn.to/3EfeZ6r
Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/
Amanda Doyle Stops Keeping Score And Stays In The Moment - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-60/amanda-doyle-stops-keeping-score-and-stays-in-the-moment/
Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/
Kate Bowler - https://katebowler.com/about/

April 2025: Lily Brooks-Dalton’s The Light Pirate May 02, 2025

Show notes

Description:

The April 2025 JHBC selection, The Light Pirate, is a haunting, lyrical, and original story that takes place in the near future, set against the backdrop of climate-ravaged Florida, with parts of the state going underwater and being abandoned by those who used to call it home. The story follows Wanda—a luminous child born out of a devastating hurricane—as she navigates a rapidly changing world. With elements of literary fiction, speculative realism, and subtle magical undertones, The Light Pirate is a meditation on grief, transformation, resilience, and the relationship between humanity and the natural world. It’s both a warning and a whisper of hope—a reminder that even in the face of collapse, there is still beauty, connection, and light.

In this discussion with The Light Pirate author, Lily Brooks-Dalton, she and Jen discuss:

How the simple practice of journaling helped Lily evolve her craft and find her own unique voice as a writer
The ways in which Lily weaves unexpected, real-life texture into her work by marrying her passions in other hobbies and subjects
The evolving demands on a modern author
And Lily talks about her next book project titled 'Ruins' that explores the fascinating field of archaeology

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I always wanted to be a writer. And it was just a matter of figuring out that that was a goal worth working toward.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton
“I always had a journal. I was so much better at figuring out what I felt through writing it down, as opposed to even thinking or talking out loud. It was just like my medium.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton
“That moment of preparation really stuck with me for a long time. And I couldn't get it out of my head. I was just thinking about all the different ways that a human being could react to that kind of energy, that kind of dread and fear and excitement.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton
“This is the conundrum of living in places that aren’t for us, places that aren't accommodating to us anymore in the way that maybe they used to be. It's so easy to be tucked into your safe home and be like, just move, just go somewhere else. But, I think you are able to put yourself in those shoes and realize these are people's homes. They invest their whole lives in these spaces. And it's no small thing to just move somewhere a little easier.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton
“I didn’t become a writer to be seen. It's not my comfort zone, so it's been a little bit scary at times and also really exciting.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Light Pirate: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/42dGxCn
Motorcycles I've Loved: A Memoir by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4cEEavY
Good Morning, Midnight: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4jy3S7v
The Midnight Sky on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80244645
Piranesi by Susanna Clarke - https://amzn.to/4jzVvZ6
Audition: A Novel by Katie Kitamura - https://amzn.to/42koxXa

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.lilybrooksdalton.com/

Instagram - https://www.insta ...

Top Chef’s Kristen Kish on Last Chances, Making Big Changes and Living a Life That’s Accidentally On Purpose Apr 30, 2025

Show notes

Description:

She’s become a leading voice in the culinary world and today stars as the lead host of the same cooking competition show that launched her career. Kristen Kish was eliminated from Bravo’s season 10 of Top Chef, only to make a triumphant return through a Last Chance Kitchen opportunity that cleared the way for her to beat out the remaining competition and win the season.

Since that 2013 victory, Kristen has been everywhere – launching a new restaurant, Arlo Grey, in Jen’s hometown of Austin (and another restaurant opening soon in New York), hosting some of our favorite food shows including Kitchens at the End of the World, Iron Chef, and now Top Chef (the student has become the teacher). She’s also flexing a new muscle as an author. In her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, Kristen shares her story of being born in South Korea and adopted into a loving white, midwestern American family and what it was like for her to navigate her identity in all of its racial, sexual and professional contexts. Ultimately, what defines Kristen’s story is how she learned to find her voice and use it and, while accidents may be unexpected, they don’t have to be at odds with our purpose.

Our conversation today covers:

Pivoting, embracing change, and building a life that is truthful and authentic
How the road to success was so much more winding and complicated than it may have appeared from the outside
Knowing internally that it’s time to make a change or take a new step forward
How it’s the behind-the-scenes, off camera moments that nobody sees where the decisions and discoveries are made, where the unexpected meets the intentional, and where things get really interesting.
Battling imposter syndrome and burnout and quieting the voice of doubt
How life’s best opportunities often come from embracing the unexpected

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I figured out that I don't need to be anything other than myself. I figured out I don’t need to replicate somebody else’s way of doing something. My voice matters.” – Kristen Kish
“I think a lot of the nurture is in my personal life and a lot of the nature is in my professional life, because I can't tell you why I'm good at certain things. I didn't have to practice holding a knife. I didn't practice putting together flavors. It just came to me.” – Kristen Kish
“For a long time, I didn't know myself at all. I was too scared. I didn't want to know. I was scared of knowing where I came from because what if I found out something absolutely horrible? Sometimes you just don't want to know. And I've had to come to terms with getting to know all the really good things about myself that really have helped me move forward in life, but also really understanding the things that make me a challenge.” – Kristen Kish
I wish I would have chosen Bravo over Twitter ten years ago. – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Top Chef - https://www.bravotv.com/top-chef
Bravo! - https://www.bravotv.com/
Accidentally on Purpose by Kristen Kish - https://amzn.to/4iJQy04
Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker -
Arlo Grey restaurant - https://www.thelinehotel.com/austin/restaurants-bars/arlo-grey/
Stef Ferrari, food writer - https://www.theycallmeferrari.com/ferrari-here

The Tears of Things: Living Prophetically in an Age of Outrage with Richard Rohr Apr 23, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does.

With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like:

How do we live compassionately in a time of violence and despair? And what can we do with our private disappointments and the anger we feel in such an unjust world?
What can we do? Non-violent resistance is our chief responsibility right now. Like John Lewis said, these times call for some “good trouble”. Join the marches, call and write our elected leaders, and mobilize strategically for upcoming elections. We have several democratic tools at our disposal.
Where can we look for inspiration? Father Rohr talks to us about his latest project, The Tears of Things, which recounts the timeless wisdom of the Hebrew prophets and notes “If we can understand the prophets so poorly, if at all, no wonder we have not understood Jesus.”
What’s one thing we can do to live prophetically in these chaotic times?
And Father Rohr tells us what is giving him hope today. You’ll find it contagious.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

You know that the book of Lamentations was included in the Bible and it’s very telling that it's not lamenting any single war or single death. It's about universal sadness, giving us permission for a universal lament for the tragic sense of life.” - Fr. Richard Rohr
“We have to dig deep for hope. There isn't a logical basis for it today. But I do find it in nature.” – Fr. Richard Rohr
“Tears put us in touch with the soul and that’s their great gift.” – Fr. Richard Rohr
“Trust the excluded ones. Trust the little people. Jesus told us that. They will be much closer to the inside of the gospel than anybody who's easily holding power or position. Look for the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. You won't as readily find that in billionaires as you will in the little people.” – Fr. Richard Rohr
“You're ping ponging back and forth between rage and lament. And it's hard to find your center. And then the next day it's something different. It is a daily onslaught right now. It's so overwhelming.” – Amy Hardin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4iaaBU0
Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4jrgkpy
The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/44ruxhU
The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3XUyPKP
Live Yourself Into a New Way of Thinking: Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/
Enneagra ...

Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu Apr 18, 2025

Show notes

Description:

Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton’s Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth.

Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive.

In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss:

What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land
Finding moments of grace and healing.
Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower
Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“God's love is that lavish and it's there for you. And it doesn't come with the conditions that you might have. It doesn't require you to do anything more than you've already done. It just requires you to be. God's love is big enough to hold that, and your mess, and your beauty, and your frailty, and anything else you might bring to God.” – Jeff Chu
“I see folks trying to figure out how to create belonging, not just for themselves, but also for others, and being willing to ask those tough questions out loud, and being brave enough to say, I don't know, but I wonder. Being bold enough to point out not just the ugly things, but also to name the beautiful and hopeful things. Those are all things that give me hope.” – Jeff Chu

#JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney

Resources Mentioned in This Episode: