For the Love of Climbing

55: A Price Too Big Dec 01, 2023

On October 29, 2019, Michelle Xue and her climbing partner, Jenny Shedden, set off to climb Red Slate Mountain in the Sierra Nevada when they were struck by rockfall and killed. This story is told through the lens of her dear friend, Artem.

While all genres of climbing can be dangerous, alpine climbing is likely the most. These stories of loss pay tribute to loved ones, but beyond that, the life of an alpine climber is complex. They say, “What’s done in love, is done well.” But the passion for this sport creates a catch-22.

The cold paradox of alpine climbing leaves loved ones behind, pondering the timeworn question: Why do we climb? Why choose to continue a sport when the risks encountered could mean death? Everyone will grieve in this lifetime. And everyone will experience loss. It’s a painful but normal part of the human experience, and the process of grief, though it moves, will move in cycles.

This episode is in loving memory of Michelle Xue and Jenny Shedden.

For the Love of Climbing is presented byPatagonia. Additional support is fromdeuter USA, Allez Outdoor, andOcún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed and Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

54: Good Mom, Bad Mom Nov 01, 2023

“Are you a good witch or a bad witch?” Glinda asked Dorothy when she crash-landed in Oz for the first time. The theory of everything is that every element has an opposite. And by this logic, if there are, in fact, “good moms”, then it would follow that there must also be “bad moms”. But it doesn’t really work that way because the system of measurement that dictates the “good mom” / “bad mom” status is fundamentally flawed.

When Tracy became a newly-minted mom, she was determined to find a way to stick with climbing while she navigated all the new hurdles motherhood brings. As the dual identity of parent and climber becomes more common, we hope stories like Tracy’s won’t stand out.

Tracy will always be a mom. But, she can also be a climber. She can hold one in each hand while we work to dismantle the notion that motherhood has to come at the price of one’s identity—instead of being integrated as a part of it.

The mental construct that ping pongs back and forth between being “good” or “bad” traps moms and parents in a place of “not-enoughness”, when the fact of the matter is: you are.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed and Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

53: A Guy Walks Out of a Bar... Oct 01, 2023

Addiction is the kind of topic where judgment is easy, and empathy is hard. Shame is at the core of addiction. It thrives best in secrecy when we feel most alone, and keeps stories like these hidden in the dark.

Lucas spent years, bouncing and skidding off the bottom before sobriety. But you know what they say: every unconscionable low point has a silver lining.

Before long-term recovery, you could find Lucas on the road climbing full-time. He was the guy who could wax poetic around a campfire about all types of beverages of any kind, any continent. While the conditions that preceded him to drink were probably always there, living out of his truck and reducing his life to just climbing and nature made him realize he was empty on a different level.

For the Love of Climbing is presented byPatagonia. Additional support is fromdeuter USA, Allez Outdoor, andOcún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed and Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

52: My Friend Kris Sep 01, 2023

This is Jess and Chelsea. They’re both climbers, they both live in Colorado. They both love dogs, and they’re forever inextricably tied together by these very common, uncomplicated things. They’re also forever connected because of this one very complicated big thing.

In September of 2020, the climbing community lost Kris Ugarizza to suicide. Three years later, we’re sharing this story through the lens of two friends in order to promote more action and awareness on prevention.

This podcast continues to work with Better Help to break down the stigma and persistent societal belief that mental health issues are a sign of weakness, and because everybody deserves a good support system, and sometimes that starts with one person. Go to betterhelp.com/climbing to find out more information about online therapy.

If you’re having a crisis or thoughts of suicide, call or text 988 to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

If you or someone you know is struggling, help is here.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed. Additional music is licensed by Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

Therapy is for everyone: BetterHelp

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

Bonus Episode 51: 40 Years to Freedom (Part 2) Aug 01, 2023

Amin has been climbing for over 23 years, starting in Shiraz, a historical city in Iran. In 2017, he moved to the U.S. to work as a head routesetter, and was shot in a senseless act of violence that critically injured him and shook friends and family to their core. The irony of growing up in the Islamic Republic of Iran and never being afraid of guns until he moved to America is...sobering.

Today, Amin remains deeply engaged in advocacy for Iranian people, especially women. He believes the revolution is coming and is inspired by those who have put their lives on the line for change.

This is part two of a two-part story.

Visit GoFundMe.com/myshare4freedom to support those who have been directly affected during the Woman Life Freedom movement.

Find Amin on Instagram at @amminabbasi for updates and more. Contact him if you’re willing and able to further amplify the voice of the Woman Life Freedom movement.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed. Additional music is licensed by Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast gets support from BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

50: 40 Years to Freedom (Part 1) Aug 01, 2023

Amin has been climbing for over 23 years, starting in Shiraz, a historical city in Iran. In 2017, he moved to the U.S. to work as a head routesetter, and was shot in a senseless act of violence that critically injured him and shook friends and family to their core. The irony of growing up in the Islamic Republic of Iran and never being afraid of guns until he moved to America is...sobering.

Today, Amin remains deeply engaged in advocacy for Iranian people, especially women. He believes the revolution is coming and is inspired by those who have put their lives on the line for change.

This is part one of a two-part story.

Visit GoFundMe.com/myshare4freedom to support those who have been directly affected during the Woman Life Freedom movement.

Find Amin on Instagram at @amminabbasi for updates and more. Contact him if you’re willing and able to further amplify the voice of the Woman Life Freedom movement.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed. Additional music is licensed by Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast gets support from BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

49: Good Grief Jul 01, 2023

There are those who see grief as the final form of love—this one final act that we give to those we’ve lost. It’s also been said that it’s the price we pay for love, which is a funny way to look at it. But these two things unrelentingly go hand-in-hand.

On September 2nd, 2021, Tara lost her dad to Covid. But…it's complicated. During that time, well-meaning folk comprised of climbers, liberal activists—even celebrities—condemned those who refused vaccination. Social media was filled with far-left and far-right criticism. Like we said—it’s complicated.

A year and a half after officially joining the Dead Dad Club, Tara sent one of her hardest multi-year climbing projects. But this story isn't really about that...well, sorta.

"Grief is an insurmountable pain. But at the same moment, I acknowledge that it is also a reflection of love. And while the mountains feel like they are falling over me, and the waves crashing into me, I can simultaneously understand that it is a result of such deep love. It is all love." - TK

This episode is in memory of James Reynvaan.

***Content warning: This episode discusses adoption, briefly mentions suicide, and contains discussion about Native American Boarding Schools. Take care of yourselves while listening and reach out for help if you need it.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed and Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast gets support from BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

48: We Are the Currents Jun 01, 2023

Civil discourse is a dying art, a complex practice that takes patience and well-rounded perspective to really master. Asking folks to be brave enough to make their convictions vulnerable means really listening, for both sides—it's not a one-way street. Surrounding ourselves with like-minded people is important to build community, but it doesn't mean that we should build walls to ignore opposition. That's not change. On an individual level, through clear and kind conversation, it's more possible than we think.

GOP lawmakers are working aggressively to limit trans rights and there's a surge of anti-trans bills at the state level ahead of 2024. Supporters of these bills have a narrow-minded view of who trans people are, and this misinformation and disinformation abet more uncertainty and fear.

Lex speaks to the importance of needing more people who aren't in danger to speak up and push back on anti-trans narrative while working toward a future where trans and genderqueer joy is a given and equality, representation, and inclusion aren't just buzzwords, but a glance backward at a stagnant past.

Change is coming. Change is here. And trans people are undeniably the currents of these crucial changes, and for each other.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed. Sound effects by Jonathan Shaw.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

Therapy is for everyone: Better Help

FLC is public media which means we're supported by listeners like you. Become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

47: How We Grow May 01, 2023

Kids have a lot of questions when someone in their family is sick. But when you don't know to ask, certain things become the norm. In our parents' generation, bipolar disorder wasn't as widely talked about, nor given the compassionate treatment it deserves. Becca is changing that.

Becca grew up with a dad who has bipolar disorder. She, herself, has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and her research exploring the effects of climbing on women with mental illness and trauma, and the ways it can be used to increase self-efficacy, resiliency, and locus of control is currently under academic review.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

Therapy is for everyone: Better Help

FLC is public media which means we're supported by listeners like you. Become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Mini-Episode 11: Climbing Doesn't Change You Apr 28, 2023

Welcome back to the podcast. I’ve always been a huge advocate of change, but not always the good kind. Usually the “shake the snow globe, throw caution to the wind” chaotic kind. Lorca from episode sixteen, season three, sporadically sends a newsletter which, as a person who hates all newsletters because they melt me down into an unproductive diatribe about marketers who clearly have no regard for CAN-SPAM laws—I love receiving this one. This week’s newsletter subject line was “Resilience Loves…Change”:

“People who want clearly are dangerous to the status quo. They are natural catalysts. Things will change around them.”

Up next is our eleventh mini-episode which is comprised of audio you sent in, answering the question: “How did climbing change your life?”

We’re always taking audio submissions and pitches. Contact us through our submission form on fortheloveofclimbing.com, and tune in next Monday, April first, for the first episode of season six.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights.

Therapy is for everyone: BetterHelp

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

46: Mason’s Retirement Sucks Tour Apr 24, 2023

Welcome back to the podcast. This is season five’s final episode which may or may not be two months late, but what are deadlines if not social constructs that we build to plan and schedule our lives around? And sometimes, life blows the fuck up and you roll with the chaos and see where it takes you.

Mason went from pro-climbing to no-climbing after a slow descent into the depths of his illness. In 2018, he was diagnosed with ME/CFS—a complex, debilitating, long-term medical condition.

Living with invisible illness is a high-density experience. There are no breaks or days off. It’s not like being on a big wall where you could bail or get to the top and have it be over. Mason learned on the proverbial “other side” that in climbing, you could never have the intensity of experiences you could with prolonged circumstances like being sick.

You are deep in the shit, and that comes with a lot of big, often ugly, emotions. Maybe one of the hardest parts of this condition is knowing that remission isn’t guaranteed. Healing from an incurable illness is exactly as unglamorous as it sounds, but Mason’s Come Back Tour proceeds as scheduled.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights.

Therapy is for everyone: BetterHelp

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

45: The Letter Jan 01, 2023

Rebecca spent hours of her childhood, outside on her front lawn, catching caterpillars and fireflies. She was timid, liked to play alone, and was never one to venture off on her own to explore.

Growing up, her mom’s addiction to alcohol infected so much of her life, so she wrote a letter about it. Rebecca so thoughtfully describes alcoholism as feeling like she’s losing someone, even though they’re alive.

Climbing became the thing that allowed Rebecca to challenge the idea of who she was, in order for her to see who she could become.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Blue Dot Sessions and Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

44: Mission Possible Dec 01, 2022

Lucho grew up in San Francisco’s Mission District with the belief that the only way to survive his neighborhood was with the protection of a gang. So, he did the most logical thing: he joined a gang. Lucho started hanging out on street corners along the 24th St. Corridor and the next few years of his life were filled with gang fights, crime, and some really bad decisions.

But finally, his mom intervened and an inner city kids wilderness backpacking trip led Lucho to rock climbing. He moved into his truck in Lee Vining just down from the Eastern Yosemite entrance and climbed with some guy named Cedar Wright.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

43: Becoming Katie Nov 01, 2022

If you Google “Katie Brown” on the internet, there’s a Reddit thread called “What Ever Happened to Katie Brown?” and that’s a valid question. Katie wasn’t just a professional climber at the age of thirteen—she didn’t just win the X Games at fourteen or onsight the northwest face of Half Dome or snag the first female free ascent of the Leaning Tower with Lynn Hill.

She wrote a book! She wrote two books, in fact. She became a mom. She started healing her old wounds from childhood and left behind a dysfunctional religion and toxic relationships that consumed her childhood and adolescent years. She bartended, made some jewelry, and reclaimed her past in order to tell her story.

Here it is.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).

Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

42: Something's Gotta Give Oct 01, 2022

The world of adaptive sports is changing, and quickly. Ronnie’s disability hasn’t held him back, but social stigmas that are still caught behind in outdated narratives can. And that’s where change comes. It takes a community, and Ronnie asks himself every day how he can make a difference. The answer is simple—one at a time.

Prosthetic and Orthotic Associates of Tennessee

Instagram

Facebook

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

41: Emily “Gwyneth Paltrow Rocked Apple” and She Doesn’t Want a Lemon Baby Sep 01, 2022

Emily miscarried in March of 2021 and she struggled with how the experience felt so shameful. It was her job to keep him alive and growing, after all—right? Except, one of the worst parts about miscarriage is that it isn’t caused by the action, behavior, or even body of the pregnant person in the majority of cases, but despite this information, there’s still a lot of confusion and silence around this topic.

“Mention the baby” is written all over the hashtags for miscarriage and pregnancy loss because ohmygosh—do people really think mothers-to-be have forgotten and they might somehow need a reminder? Emily’s unborn son is always on her mind. Whenever someone says his name, her heart still rings with joy. Because so much of him *is* joy, and he brought more love than she knew possible. And now he's dead.

To hide his memory would take away the last bit of what Emily has left of that love. So, Emily has made one request: mention the baby.

Producer’s note: This episode felt apropos in light of fifty years of a legally enshrined right to abortion in the United States brought to an end after the Supreme Court overturned its landmark ruling made in 1973. The loss of Roe vs. Wade means that millions of women across the U.S. no longer have their right to an abortion guaranteed by the constitution, and Emily’s present and future career is impacted by this decision.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

40: Lowest Common Denominator Aug 01, 2022

Kyle destigmatizes substance use and mental health by opening up about his own journey through recovery after a two-decade-long battle with drugs and alcohol that almost took his life in October of 2021.

His fear of failure, fear of falling, and fear of inadequacy don’t compare to the fear of not living a full life. Kyle’s path to being substance-free embraces some of fear’s corresponding counterparts—joy, success, the exhilaration of free-fall, and the inner sanctum of the non-comparative derivation of self-worth.

Addiction…is a public health crisis. Just about any behavior or stimulus can go from well-adapted and functional to maladaptive and dysfunctional, but the more that we bring it into public discussion, the more that people can feel like they can support each other and talk about it openly, and not act like it’s this *thing* that we have to hide.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

39: Where the Redwoods Grow Jul 01, 2022

Savannah lived in a truck for a year in an attempt to pursue a career in adventure photography. She learned that the privilege to electively suffer still comes at a cost. It didn’t give her more time with her aunt, but it did give her the ability to bloom with a new season, to grow big enough to hold both love and grief simultaneously. Because grief, at its deepest core, is an act of love itself.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, Ocún, and the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA).

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

38. Are You Safe There? Jun 01, 2022

Dan always knew he was different growing up, but he didn’t have a name for it. Growing up gay in rural America shaped the way he moved through the world, and it led him to believe that the outdoors wasn’t a safe place for him.

This podcast unequivocally supports the LGBTQIA community. Episode thirty-eight discusses suicide and depression. If you’re struggling with mental health, please check out the show notes for more resources at fortheloveofclimbing.com, and take care of yourselves while listening.

This month through July 4th, use code LOVECLIMBING-20 at checkout for 20% off Deuter’s Guide Series packs. Deuter is one of the leading backpack brands that has been supporting this podcast from day one.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

37. The Arc May 01, 2022

Pam didn’t have a lot of tragedy in her life, so she didn’t know about the arc. And as a grieving person, it was hard to look forward to anything, especially on top of the pandemic. But the world started opening up again, and she and her husband Jim rode 1,300 miles self-supported from the coast of Oregon to Montana last summer. When Jim started not feeling well, they decided to return home to California.

And it was almost like she had a little bump, so she was devastated when they had to come back. It felt dark and isolated, and Pam realized—she didn’t totally have it nailed.

Pam knows about the arc, now. She knows that she has to build a future with things to look forward to and that give her purpose, if only to help her to not feel sad. And it might be like this for the rest of her life, so she takes the good when she receives it and doesn’t expect it to last. But when she’s stuck in a moment, she recognizes that it’s only a moment and to hold fast—that all storms pass.

Episode 37 is in loving memory of Brad Gobright, & in dedication to Pam, Jim, and Jill. We love you.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Music is by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

Mini-Episode 10: Hope is Here Apr 25, 2022

Hope isn’t perpetual optimism. It’s an inherent part of being human that requires determination for things to change for the better. We’re back this May with ten new stories from climbers about what hope means to them.

Because life can be full of sucker punches, but that doesn’t mean you stop breathing. In fact, the whole point is that you get up, learn something, pass on whatever slice of happiness or nugget of wisdom to others, and move forward. Because there’s always hope on the other side.

This is not a climbing podcast. It’s a funny, sad, and mostly uncomfortable podcast about the healing that takes place when we talk openly about our pain and being the most human we can be, which doesn't always mean our best (or shiniest).

Producer’s notes: we got a 2022 glow-up and Alex Johnson partially sings Celine Dion’s “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now”.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Ocún.

Music is licensed by Music Bed.

Cover art by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron.

36: The Climber & the Poet Feb 01, 2022

Climbing can be, er, kinda selfish. We go up, we go down—and then we do it all over again. It's also where Oliver and Alyssa’s interests diverge. For some, that’s a dealbreaker. Is this lifestyle sport so unique that it’s the be-all-end-all for relationships? Maybe.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

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Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

35: The Bipolar Ape Jan 01, 2022

Humans are capable of acts of such bravery but also, acts of such cowardice from one moment to the next. And of course, sometimes we’re going to do terrible things—and sometimes, we’re going to do amazing and beautiful things.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

34: Dreamers Only Dec 01, 2021

Dreams don’t just fall into our heads out of nowhere. They require patience, self-compassion, and the courage to pursue them, regardless of the odds. Debbie credits her resilience to her childhood struggles in Catalonia and learned that sometimes, you have to travel to the other side of the world to discover what moves you the most.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

33: From the Inside, Out (Part 2) Nov 01, 2021

This is one transgender climber’s story. And it’s hard to sum up in just a few sentences not just Lor’s identity, but the human being that they are. The impact that they’re having on our community in a meaningful way, and how it’s growing because of it. Just by simply existing.

This is part two of a two-part story.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

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32: From the Inside, Out (Part 1) Nov 01, 2021

Lor had to decide. They could go on hating themself, or could be a part of making the world a place that was more healed—and that started with healing themself. This is part one of a two-part story.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

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31: Sober as F*** Oct 01, 2021

What role does excessive boozing in a community of athletes play? And let’s be really clear—this isn’t just the outdoor industry and trade show happy hours. It’s not about climbing culture or the river or ski or mountain biking community, or even the outdoor community at large.

America has a drinking problem, and Ari’s story isn’t unique. It prompts us to ask the question of why we’re drinking in the first place—is it coping or conviviality?

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Patagonia.

30: The Prince Sep 01, 2021

Phillip Schaal, an elite rock climber and one of the world’s best boulderers at the time, died in 2016 after a severe reaction to a suspicious drug overdose, as told by his mother Eloise. Francois Lebeau described Phillip as an “underground machine”. “Quiet and humble”, Phillip was always doing his own thing and “shied away from the media limelight”. Phillip’s story is told through Eloise’s lens and experience.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, Vibram, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Chad Crouch. “Dreamers for Elisa” by Caro C. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

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29: Cat Like a Cat Aug 01, 2021

We’re increasingly pressured to parcel ourselves up in various social contexts, but identity is complex. Being transgender is just another way of being human, and the beauty within that is that it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, and Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch and Skyler Kergil for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

28: Brittany Jul 01, 2021

In 2017, a forty-foot fall broke Brittany’s L1 vertebrae, sending a piece of bone into her spinal cord. But Brittany has been gritting her way through life long before her accident. Despite her disability, she’s held fast—and what Brittany soon found was a community within para-climbing.

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Podington Bear. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

27: A Splash in the Pan Jun 01, 2021

On April 16th, 2019, elite climbers Jess Roskelley, David Lama, and Hansjörg Auer lost their lives in an avalanche climbing Howse Peak in Alberta’s BANFF National Park. The margin of error for alpinism is unnervingly thin, and the truth of it all is that you are not in control—the mountain is. And it took losing Jordan’s brother, Jess, to learn this unforgiving lesson.

"And even when I was close to defeat, I rose to my feet, my life a soundtrack, I rose to the beat." -Dr. Dre

This episode is in honor of Jess Roskelley and the Roskelley family, David Lama, and Hansjörg Auer. For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, and presented by Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Podington Bear. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Donate to and learn more about the Jess Roskelley Foundation here.

26: I’m a Liver, Not a Fighter May 01, 2021

Cedar, who was named after a tree, has something called Progressive Familial Intrahepatic Cholestasis, otherwise known as PFIC 2. This devastating genetic disorder affects 1 in 50,000 to 1 in 100,000 live births and, if untreated, can be fatal by the age of twenty. Visit http://pfic.org for more information.

This episode is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, and Patagonia.

Music by: Kakurenbo and Podington Bear. Additional music licensed by Music Bed. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode.

Additional sound effects from zapsplat.com.

Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.

Read the transcript here.

Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things.

Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Mini-Episode 9: I Did Not Know Apr 26, 2021

How do you measure something that definitively changes your life forever—whether it be for better or worse? Like, what kind of metrics are we supposed to be using for that kinda thing? Is the entire idea of “change” just an arbitrary construct, something that we make up to make ourselves feel better?
Since the start of the pandemic, life has been nothing but change. So, we thought it was a good time to ask folks how climbing changed their lives, and was it really for the better? Not to get all existential on you—because, you know, we’re not *that* kind of podcast.
This mini-episode is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, First Ascent Coffee, and Patagonia.
Music by: Kakurenbo and Podington Bear. Additional music licensed by Music Bed. A HUGE thank you to Chad Crouch for creating absolute magic, and to Peter Darmi for mixing this episode. Cover photo by Kika MacFarlane.
Read the transcript here.
Follow us on Instagram for podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things. Support us on Patreon in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

25: A Knot Like Infinity Feb 01, 2021

Last September, North Bennett sent me a personal essay and told me that he thought it wasn’t send-y enough for most sports publications, but also a little too climb-y for others. And—that’s where we come in. As it turns out, it was actually *just* the sort of story that we’d share on this podcast. “A Knot like Infinity” is putatively about seeking romance on Tinder and climbing with friends, but really takes on the topics of self-image, self-representation, and the value of friendship.

24: The Process Jan 01, 2021

Just shy of twenty 5.12 free solos, Austin Howell had climbed nineteen unique routes without a rope—one of them without shoes and butt ass naked. In 2019, Austin died free soloing in Linville Gorge, North Carolina. His love for climbing is hard to capture with words alone, so we flew to Minnesota in the summer of 2019 to borrow some of Susan’s. Austin's story is complicated, but as the pendulum in life swings both ways, he embraced both its highs and lows and especially reveled in the joy that free soloing brought him.

23: Si me muero, me muero Dec 01, 2020

Jack used to do all the things, like surfing and jiu jitsu. But an incomplete spinal cord injury in 2018 changed his plans indefinitely. What’s a little neck fracture at C4 and C5, right? It still hasn’t slowed him down and his accident unknowingly gave him the foundation for understanding risk and its counterpart, the consequences of rock climbing.

22: The '59 Sound Nov 01, 2020

On March 9th, 2016, Eric was working on linking the crux moves of Moonlight Buttress, one of the most classic test pieces for hard climbing in North America, when he fell from the upper pitches to his death. This is just one part of Eric’s story, who played a huge part in Hayley’s life. This is also a story about the stereotypes of gender and emotional expression, the importance of self-love, and the trajectory of grief.

21: Come As You Are Oct 01, 2020

Body positivity isn’t about “fat” versus “skinny”, despite barrages of criticism from armchair philosophers. The body positivity movement is about feeling comfortable in the skin you’re in now, at this very moment. And it’s not just a women’s issue, but where do men stand in this movement? The more we invite men to the table to have conversations about male body concept, the more the foundation of toxic masculinity will crumble. This movement is for every body—and you can come as you are.

20: Sarah Sep 01, 2020

Addiction is a need-hate relationship. It can be a terrible secret, it can frame the very shape of your life. It’s the white noise behind many lives, and everyone’s experience with it is unique. For those who suffer from addiction, there’s a steep price to pay. Sarah learned what that price was.

19: Light at the End of the Tunnel Aug 01, 2020

Throughout America’s history, hallmarks of our democracy have been largely reserved for cis white people through intentional exclusion of BIPOC people. Connie and Kai Lightner call attention to the role of race and how racism in the outdoor industry, public and private institutions still disproportionately segregates and oppresses Black people in 2020. In the midst of a revolution and pandemic, things have felt pretty bleak to a lot of people. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but the way out is through.

18: Life Through a Sieve Jul 01, 2020

Going through a traumatic experience is kind of like putting your life through a sieve. In 2009, Kareemah was diagnosed with cancer and underwent an amputation on her left leg below the knee. This episode is about strength in visibility and what happens when the narrative shifts from; “you don’t belong here” to “you belong here, you exist, and you matter”.

17: What We Know Jun 01, 2020

If you’ve been paying attention to the news, this is what we know: Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor and George Floyd are victims of three separate crimes against black people. Cases like these have raised questions about racial profiling. We still have a lot of work to do, and that work begins by listening to one another—especially to those who have the least power in society. Healing begins by listening to those voices and their stories. Also, Mikey Schaefer makes a quick cameo—how random is that!

16: A Hunger For Joy May 01, 2020

On May 12, 1986, students and teachers from the Oregon Episcopal School Basecamp Program set off to climb Mt. Hood. Three days later, nine of the climbers would die in what’s known as the second deadliest alpine accident in North American history. At age sixteen, Lorca Smetana survived the 1986 Mount Hood Tragedy and has transformed a series of painful experiences into a life of resilience and leadership. Is this the Brené Brown episode of climbing podcasts? Maybe. Welcome back to season three.

Mini-Episode 8: How The F*ck Are You? (No, really.) Feb 01, 2020

We’ll be back on May 1st with new episodes. Until then, enjoy a mini-episode while I try to do things like not burn a film festival into the ground (just kidding...I think!) and if you’re in Denver, Colorado March 5th through 8th, come out to the No Man's Land Film Festival Annual Flagship event for four days of films, workshops and guest speakers. This mini-episode is comprised of episode ten with Corey Mowery, which if you haven’t listened to yet, we highly recommend. Also, who is this “we” I keep referring to?

15: A Winter in Pakistan Jan 01, 2020

When you go on a climbing trip, everybody thinks it’s a vacation. And you can’t get PTSD from a vacation, right? Except that a winter in the Himalaya nearly destroyed Ian. He survived unroped crevasse falls, an avalanche, bivouacs in negative forty-degree weather, high altitude cerebral edema, Hepatitis A, an earthquake, oh—and also, nearly being eaten alive by fleas. When he returned to the states, he couldn’t cope with society and suffered from severe depression and PTSD.

14: Donuts for Savvy (Part 2) Dec 01, 2019

To know Savannah was to love her. Nina and Court loved Savannah to the ends of the earth, and her unexpected death forever changed the climbing community. In their love and grief, Savannah’s parents turned everything that she was into purpose. Savannah left the world with a legacy of love, joy, and gratitude. Introduction by the lovely Chelsea Rude.

13: Donuts for Savvy (Part 1) Nov 01, 2019

Grief is the one human experience that we all have in common, but there are no words for losing a child. Savannah Buik was 22 years old when she died in a climbing accident at Devil’s Lake in Wisconsin. Nina and Court saw both sides of the pendulum: how the stronger and deeper we love, the harder it is to overcome the pain on the other side. This is part one of a two-part story. Savannah credited climbing for helping her overcome her eating disorder, and she dedicated her life to healing others. #donutsforsavvy

12: Life, Interrupted Oct 01, 2019

Life is full of interruptions we’re rarely ready for, so the more doctors tried to convince Hans how serious his condition was, the more he denied it. We most commonly associate grief with death, but what about the softer versions of grief? Like, grieving the loss of a relationship or an old life, or maybe a kidney?

11: A Woman Knows Her Place Sep 01, 2019

Women are a lot of things. We’re complex, we’re coffee-fueled, we smell good—sometimes we smell bad. Sometimes we’re hangry. But one thing is certain—we’re hustlers, we are strong, and we are gritty. Welcome back to the second season of For the Love of Climbing.

Mini-Episode 7: The Moral of the Story Aug 18, 2019

It's Still (Mostly) Not a Climbing Podcast. We took the summer off to stand fully in our truth, which means sometimes we have to sit in those uncomfortable feelings, too. But we’re back this September with ten new episodes that unpack a lot of this. We spent the last eight months on the road talking to climbers (like you) about what resilience looks like when shit hits the fan—and everything that happens after.

10: I'll Spare You the Platitudes May 15, 2019

Corey's dad introduced him to climbing and the outdoors. In 2010, Corey’s dad died by suicide. We don’t actually have a complete count of suicide attempt data because the stigma surrounding it leads to a lot of underreporting. But having an open dialogue and sharing stories like Corey’s is helping to break down the barrier of this stigma, and lead to more conversations and understanding of depression and mental illness. This is Corey's story, and this episode is in loving memory of Don Mowery Jr.

9: Shit in the Woods Apr 15, 2019

This episode is about eating disorders, body positivity, and just owning your shit, specifically through the lens of climbing and one woman’s experience.

8: The Heart of the Matter Mar 15, 2019

Matt is the editor-in-chief of Climbing Magazine, a published author, a husband, a father, and a pretty well-seasoned climber. And even though most of his life has not been easy, Matt has found his answers—beyond benzodiazepine addiction, beyond mental distress, beyond chasing dragons of treating it—to get down to the heart of the matter.

7: Why Not Now Feb 15, 2019

Fact: fear stops so much of what we do. But after one life-altering day in the Gunks, Caitlin stopped putting things on hold and made some big changes because she saw what happens when you lose the chance—when you always think, “I’ll do it later.” and then later doesn’t exist.

6: #NWS Jan 15, 2019

Angela has loved to the end of the earth, which is exactly how far she would travel in order to say goodbye to Scott. After two flights that covered every aspect of the Ogre II, search and rescue could find no trace of Scott and Kyle. Adventurous souls leave broken hearts behind, but what about the aftermath? This episode is in loving memory of Scott Adamson and Kyle Dempster, who left the world with the question: What will you do with the days that you have? #NWS

5: Hold Fast Dec 15, 2018

There’s a remarkable beauty of relative perspective. Two weeks before leaving for Patagonia for a climbing trip, Alex’s life was turned upside down. Introduction from the one and only Conrad Anker (he’s an alpinist: pronounced “al-pee-nist”).

4: All This Death Nov 15, 2018

This episode is about best friends and healing, and it’s a reminder that grief happens, but so does joy.

3: She, Her, Hers Oct 15, 2018

When we're born, a doctor proclaims that we are male or female, based on what our bodies look like. But some people's gender identity is just different from what was initially expected at birth.

2: A Unique Relationship Sep 15, 2018

Bryce’s brother Tyler died in a climbing accident but because of his death, Bryce became more intrigued with the sport that took his brother’s life. He says he has a unique relationship with climbing, and he doesn’t believe that the grieving process is this big scary monster we all think it is.

1: Unbroken Aug 15, 2018

You haven't heard this story yet. But, maybe you have. Maybe it's a sister, a girlfriend, a best friend. Maybe it's you. Survivor stories like these are creating a global framework for how to end sexual violence–by talking about it. If there is any hope for having meaningful, nuanced discussions about this, transparency is our greatest ally. This is one survivor's story, out of millions. This is episode one of For the Love of Climbing.

Mini-Episode 6: I Didn't Know at the Time Jul 27, 2018

Did you ever do something you loved, but for all of the wrong reasons?

Mini-Episode 5: Packing Up to Leave Jul 19, 2018

Every job has its pros and cons. Some can be pretty chaotic and most, if not all, don’t always pay employees what they’re worth. But what if one of the downsides of your job was death? Pretty sure they don’t make bonuses that cover that.

Mini-Episode 4: Dying Slowly Jul 12, 2018

When you’re alive and vibrant and healthy enough to choose to go climbing, but your dying mother doesn’t have that choice. What do you call that kind of juxtaposition?

Mini-Episode 3: I Got One of Those Brains Jun 30, 2018

Scarecrow always wanted a brain, but sometimes those things don’t really work as well without the other two.

Mini-Episode 2: All You Can Do Jun 20, 2018

What do you look for in a climbing partner? Stoke, strength, or most importantly, suffering with you and feeding you cookies on top of pitch twelve? Hopefully the latter.

Mini-Episode 1: Bleed Into My Life Jun 16, 2018

Have you ever talked to a stranger about some of your deepest fears? Sometimes people mistake vulnerability for weakness, but it takes more strength to show people who you are, rather than hide it. Being vulnerable is an underutilized strength.

0: This is Not a Climbing Podcast Jun 08, 2018

This is not a climbing podcast. It's a podcast about choosing vulnerability and talking about real moments (even the painful ones) and how we are all really just shining examples of this messy human existence. Lots of things can happen in a lifetime, and this podcast is about those ugly, awful things that we all have to go through in life.

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There are those who see grief as the final form of love—this one final act that we give to those we’ve lost. It’s also been said that it’s the price we pay for love, which is a funny way to look at it. But these two things unrelentingly go hand-in-hand.

A year and a half after officially joining the Dead Dad Club, Tara sent one of her hardest multi-year climbing projects. But this story isn't really about that...well, sorta.

"Grief is an insurmountable pain. But at the same moment, I acknowledge that it is also a reflection of love. And while the mountains feel like they are falling over me, and the waves crashing into me, I can simultaneously understand that it is a result of such deep love. It is all love." - TK

This episode is in memory of James Reynvaan.

***Content warning: This episode discusses adoption, briefly mentions suicide, and contains discussion about Native American Boarding Schools. Take care of yourselves while listening and reach out for help if you need it.

For the Love of Climbing is presented by Patagonia. Additional support is from deuter USA, Allez Outdoor, and Ocún.

Music by Chad Crouch. Additional music is licensed by Music Bed and Blue Dot Sessions.

Read the transcript here.

Catch up on podcast (pod-Kath?) updates and general life things: @inheadlights

This podcast gets support from BetterHelp. Because therapy is for everyone.

FLC is public media which means we’re supported by listeners like you. Donate or become a patron in exchange for a warm, fuzzy feeling.

What role does excessive boozing in a community of athletes play? And let’s be really clear—this isn’t just the outdoor industry and trade show happy hours. It’s not about climbing culture or the river or ski or mountain biking community, or even the outdoor community at large.

America has a drinking problem, and Ari’s story isn’t unique. It prompts us to ask the question of why we’re drinking in the first place—is it coping or conviviality?

For the Love of Climbing is brought to you by Deuter USA, Gnarly Nutrition, Allez Outdoors, and Patagonia.

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