Food Safety Talk

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Food Safety Talk 43: I'm Sorry I Smeared Poo Jul 02, 2013

Show notes

Don is now a VIP in Brazil, at least as measured by Internet speed, while Ben was trying to get some grad students onto the interwebs. The guys then talked a bit about pop culture and follow up, including how John Oliver is stepping into 'The Daily Show’, Don’s TiVo usage, Adventure Time on Netflix and Poop and Produce. The guys felt a little challenged by their rapid recording schedule, having only recorded a show a few days ago, and syncing their notes for the show using Dropbox. Don shared his podcast equipment challenges and some of his São Paulo photos (such as this, this and this). Ben shared his own peaceful Sunday morning experiences and the awesome Australian Laborastory. In the Bug Trivia segment the guys covered Trichinella spiralis. This little nematode is also known as the ‘pork worm’ though it is no longer commonly found in pork in developed countries. Ben likes this little critter and uses it to illustrate great public health communications that resulted in pork generally being cooked overly well. And Don was proud of the small role he played in getting the safe cooking temperature changed for chicken. The guys then shifted from overcooked pork to undercooked beef burgers. Ben shared some of the work his summer students were doing on ordering burgers and the risk information that is provided by serving staff. Don described how he would calculate the risk of illness from consuming a burger that was cooked to 145°F (62.7°C), something that the inquisitive Marge Perry was interested in. Ben noted that the USDA was going to implement a labeling rule for mechanically tenderized meat and the guys were happy to take the credit for this change. But they were the disappointed by other food safety failures going on around the country, such as the large outbreak related to Firefly restaurant. The guys seriously question the food safety practices at Firefly given the large number of foods associated with the outbreak. But applause went to the public health folks for being very quick in releasing the outbreak investigation reports.

Food Safety Talk 42: The Powerful Barbecue Lobby Jun 27, 2013

Show notes

Don rang in from São Paulo, Brazil, where he is spending some time thanks to a project funded by Scientists without Borders and managed by the Godfather (Godmother?) of the Brazilian Food Safety Mafia Bernadette Franco. But podcasting away from home is proving to be more challenging that he had imagined, especially when he leaves his computer in his hotel room. The guys announced the new “subscribe” feature on the Food Safety Talk website where listeners can subscribe to a email newsletter and share the show via various platforms. This prompted the guys to talk about their social media practices. iTunes ratings and sponsorship inquires are always welcome! Ben the shared his recent trip to Nebraska for STEC CAP Grant meetings and his tornado experiences. This included a discussion of mechanically tenderized beef and how FSIS is poised to release a labeling rule for these products (similar to Canada’s labeling regime discussed in FST 41). The guys discussed John Luchansky’s research and the actual versus theoretical risks of blade and needle tenderized beef. In the Bug Trivia segment the guys talked about E. coli O157:H7. A 1994 outbreak linked to fermented dry salami resulted in research by the same Luchansky, then at Food Research Institute (FRI), to assess the effect of USDA Method No. 7 (not Mambo No 5) on food safety. Ben commented that he had just finished Jeff Benedict’s book Poisoned, which is about the 1993 Jack-in-the-Box E. coli O157:H7 outbreak and both Ben and Don agreed that this was an important and easy read for anyone working in the food industry. The guys then talked about some other interesting food related books, including Cooked, Salt Sugar Fat and Catching Fire. Ben shared some information about relevant NC state regulations in relation to supplemental cooking rooms in North Carolina and Amazing Ribs got a special BBQ mention. While still on the E. coli O157 and BBQ theme, the guys then turned their attention to an E. coli O157 outbreak related to Georgia BBQ Shack. While iced tea, which the CDC knew could have high levels of bacteria back in 1996, has been on Don’s radar since the IAFP 2011 symposium on the safety of fountain-dispensed beverages. The guys then turned their attention to The Pueblo Chieftain article on clean, cook, and chill. The nonsense in this article made the guys so angry. Since when does washing bananas make a difference (unless you eat the peel) and whatever happened to cross-contamination and temperature control (think cantaloupes)? Don thought that one way of getting the message out was to present at conferences and publish in journals of organizations such as NEHA or NACCHO, or bring the environmental health folks to attend IAFP. In the after dark the guys talked about TabLinks, Brazilian VISA requirements, Carol Wallace (of HACCP: A Practical Approach fame), Daft Punk (👍👍) and The National (👎).

Food Safety Talk 41: Always Looking Out for Nuts Jun 04, 2013

Show notes

Don shared that he’s been flogging the podcast mercilessly during his recent travels. The guys then launched straight into the Bug Trivia segment, highlighting Clostridium perfringens, which can be a big problem particularly for meat processors who need to cool large cuts of cooked meat quickly (to meet the FSIS performance standard). Carl Custer’s notes indicate that it was infamous for causing gas gangrene. During cooking of meat the spores germinate and these can grow incredibly fast if the rate of cooling is inadequate. Luckily it generally doesn’t cause death, but can cause a potentially fatal disease called pig-bel especially in countries where cooked meat is held at room temperature for long periods of time. Ben has developed some food safety infosheets for this organism, including this one detailing an outbreak linked to a school event. The guys then turned their attention to baked goodies and that some things on the Internet are not true. Don referred to one of those typical urban legend emails warning people to discard their out-of-date pancake and cake mixes for risk of causing anaphylactic allergic reactions. Turns out that there is some truth to the matter as you can see from Snopes and this scientific article “An unusual case of anaphylaxis. Mold in pancake mix.” While there are some incorrect aspects to the story, Don would always advise people to not use food that has passed its best or sell by date because of the lower quality (the dates are there for a reason). The conversation then turned to canning as Ben, the self-proclaimed Canning King of Wake County NC, recently received a question about canning mushrooms. While the email appeared to be about quality, Ben’s concern was Clostridium botulinum (see bug trivia in FST 39) and hence he elevated this email to an 11 on the 1 to 10 scale. So, Ben passed on information on canning mushrooms from the National Center for Home Food Preservation. Don was also dealing with canning questions and was worried about people fiddling with established jam recipes for fear of a repeat of what happened in Cowichan with watermelon jelly. Ben then went on a Salmonella-fuelled hazelnut caper – he was grumpy about the lack of supplier information provided by the CFIA, although Lynne Terry from The Oregonian managed to find it out. Ben felt this information could be important to other distributers who would be able to make better decisions (provided they had the right food safety culture). Don noted that weenie public health folk, such as Dr. Eric Wilke, had Doug all fired up. Dr Wilke’s antics at the press conference turned serious foodborne illness outbreak into bizarre theater. Not cool, dude. The Salmonella outbreak from Fayetteville Hotelon the I-95 reminded Don of FST 11 and the guys discussed some of the ill-informed responses of public health officials after food borne illness outbreaks. Don and Ben then turned their attention to needle tenderized beef, which was prompted by the MeatingPlace opinion about this Consumer Reports article. While James Marsden was against labeling of mechanically tenderized beef, Canada has already moved to such a labeling requirement, although Doug had some questions about it. Ben had managed to find some research on cooking inoculated and mechanically tenderized beef, although the debate about it is ongoing. Both Ben and Don would prefer to have this type of product clearly labeled, although their preference is for naturally tender and flavorsome beef cuts (such as MSA graded beef). In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s upcoming trip to Brazil and Denmark, and Ben's trip to Nebraska.

Food Safety Talk 40: All in on Boogers May 15, 2013

Show notes

The guys started the show with some news and general chit chat, including hockey, an article about fighting bacteria with mucus, Linked In (perhaps the creepiest social network), Don’s Silver Beaver Award, surely a ’Major Award’, and the TV they are watching: Arrested Development, Adventure Time and Game of Thrones. The new ‘Food is the New Rock’ podcast (suggested by fan of the show Brian Sauder - @BSauders) that provides a blend of food and music topics, reminded Ben of this Freganism Barfblog article. Don then mentioned some interesting work The University of Iowa Computational Epidemiology Group was working on, which was followed by a discussion about IAFP annual conference and IAFP PDGs. The bug trivia segment focused on Staphylococcus aureus, which is ubiquitous in the human and animal buccal cavities. Staph produces a heat resistant enterotoxin in food, famous in part for causing the Chinese canned mushrooms outbreak. Don also noted that S. aureus poisoning was also known as Ptomaine poisoning. The guys then talked about this SciLogs article by Matt Shipman (from Ben and Matt YouTube fame) and why people might not care about grants that have been awarded, but are more interested in research outcomes. The discussion then turned to the Salmonella Saintpaul cucumber outbreak and Ben was surprised by the lack of media coverage this outbreak created. Don noted that cucumbers generally had high microbial counts, as did other fresh produce such as tomatoes and lettuce, and he wondered why there hadn’t been more outbreaks to date. Ben was wondering whether contamination might be related to the water used in greenhouse production, which reminded Don of a recent article on bacteria in surface waters. Don pondered whether high relative humidity in greenhouses might be related to the transfer of pathogens. The NSF’s article on the germiest kitchen items made Don and Ben so angry. They were flabbergasted by the lack of scientific rigor used in the work and in the reporting of it. The ‘helpful’ food safety messages in the article reminded Don of Merlin Mann’s “Old Butchers” post, which mentions the ‘useful’ Lifehacker article on using soap to clean dishes. The guys didn’t feel much better about the Consumer Reports article on ground turkey. They wondered about the low Campylobacter isolation rate and Don shared some concerns about the study that he had also discussed with Marge Perry. Ben and Don congratulated AMI on their spot on public response but they felt that the National Turkey Federation response lived up to its name. In the after dark the guys talked about Emitophobia, Dan Rockey’s research on Chlamydia and Don’s upcoming Brazil trip thanks to Scientists without Borders.

Food Safety Talk 39: Des Moines is Known for their Scallops May 15, 2013

Show notes

After discussing their podcast companion beverages, the guys got stuck into answering listener Tom’s (whom Ben met at the Consumer Federation of America’s National Food Policy conference) request for guidance on research areas in food safety. Don’s advice was that Tom should follow his passion and from there pick a university or faculty members to work with. This then turned into a broader discussion about education, with a focus on distance and online learning. Don then talked about his attendance at ISGP’s Food Safety, Security, and Defense: Focus on Technologies and Innovations conference in Verona, Italy, which operates under the Chatham House Rules (not to be confused with the Cider House Rules). Don really enjoyed the discussions between the scientific experts and policy makers and he enjoyed meeting Lynn Frewer. Don also talked about his and Dane’s recent visit to GOJO to discuss Dane’s PhD research topic. In the Bug Trivia segment, Ben talked about Clostridium botulinum, the ‘sausage poisoning’ bug, which Ben wrote about recently on Barfblog. The guys thought that tin-foiled potatoes caused unnecessarily large concern because of this outbreak, as most botulism cases are linked to ineffective home canning practices. While Ben had trouble pronouncing nitrosamines, he challenged Andreas to find papers by Gibson and Roberts on Clostridium and cured meats – Andreas found Factors controlling the growth of Clostridium botulinum types A and B in pasteurized, cured meats parts I, II, III, IV, V, and VI. The guys then talked about the Egg Rollie, as Erin wanted to know whether the cooked ‘egg rollie’ could be contaminated by raw egg as it rises. Ben wasn’t too concerned and Don pointed out that while there was a risk, the risks of illness from eating raw eggs were rather low. The conversation then turned to the Listeria and cantaloupes, as FDA was planning to undertake a survey of Listeria monocytogenes in US cantaloupe packing houses (here is the letter sent to the cantaloupe industry). Ben has been organizing industry workshops with Chris Gunter (who appeared on the show in Episode 3) and some others. Ben explained what he would do if he was a producer and FDA were about to visit his packing house for sampling. Don agreed with Ben’s strategy and pointed out that baseline information on pathogen prevalence on produce was needed. However, the guys couldn’t understand why the samples were not also going to be tested for Salmonella, which had been involved in more produce related outbreaks than Listeria. In addition, Don wasn’t convinced that this survey was the best use of public funds. This then reminded Don of a USA Today article on sequestration which included a Doug Powell quote, which Don also posted on his Tumblr stream. Ben sent a shout out to Ashley Chaifetz, a PhD student studying public policy, who wrote a Barfblog post on Salmonella in dog food (and this follow up post) and how she now longer trusted the dog food manufacturer. Finally the guys sent a big thank you to the folks at SHS Design who updated their FST logo for iTunes. In the after dark the guys talked about a couple of iTunes comments, their usual scheduling challenges, a potential guest, "Rappaz R.N. Dainja” and Science Online.

Food Safety Talk 38: Like an 80's Dating Show Apr 25, 2013

Show notes

Once again, Skype and Call Recorder weren’t playing nicely for Ben while Don felt a bit like Michael Douglas in the Wonder Boys. Don has been investigating Google Hangouts for running a online live show though Michelle Danyluk didn’t think they could do a live show at IAFP, unless maybe it was in the format of an 80’s dating show, like the one on Mallrats. Ben had some follow up to his son, Jack, vomiting on a Delta plane reported in Episode 37 . While Ben initially thought the etiological agent was Astrovirus (which would make Jack ‘Astro Boy’) he wasn't sure after feeling the effects a week later. It even stopped Ben from fully enjoying the dinner he had at Fire with Michele. Ben then had some follow up about the state ag-gag laws. The guys were concerned about the protective approach instead of being open and transparent. The latter would also help the agriculture industry to create a greater understanding of food production. And sometimes an exposé (or Exposé) can change things for the better. In the new Bug Trivia segment, Don shared some information about Salmonella pulled together by Carl Custer. It turns out that Salmonella was named after a guy who didn’t discover it and after a disease that it didn’t cause – go figure. The discussion then turned to a Cryptosporidia-related outbreak in Bendigo, Australia. Ben felt that the public health messages in the article were conflicting (and incorrect). The guys disagreed with the advice that hand hygiene was important (in this instance) and were more inclined to believe that it was transmitted through swimming pools. In fact, crypto is a hardly little parasite for which alcohol based sanitizers and even chlorine aren’t effective. This reminded Don of a recent hepatitis A scare and an article that was published in the journal of Food Protection entitled “Cost Effectiveness of Vaccinating Food Service Workers against Hepatitis A Infection” which concluded a public health benefit to hospitality workers, but not patrons. This prompted a broader discussion about Hep A infected restaurant staff. The guys then turned from pastry chefs in restaurants to pastry in Greek university canteens. The guys were concerned about the results, though Don’s work on ready-to-eat foods in university canteens shows much, much lower levels. Well, maybe the staff in the Greek university canteens didn’t have time for training, just like the business that took part in a study by Campden BRI, which indicated that food safety training was hampered by lack of time. However, Don and Ben were skeptical about “43% [who] said food safety training was obstructed by the difficulties of checking the effectiveness of training programmes.” Ben then steered to conversation to writing journal articles and Don’s use of contour plots – he clearly is The Boss. Don’s contour plot shows the log increases in Listeria organisms given time and temperature, from which suitable consumer messages can be created. Before signing off, the guys then briefly talked about Doug Powell being fired from Kansas State for bad attendance and Don expressed his gratitude for all of Doug’s work, which helped him enormously over the years. And it looks like Doug’s keen to come on the podcast … so stay tuned. In the after dark, the guys talked about toilet paper dispensers for campers, though Ben’s missing the iPhone holder, and the Apple remote.

Food Safety Talk 37: Inoculating the Plane Apr 09, 2013

Show notes

The guys started with some follow up on The Wire, The Newsroom, what colored food does to your poop, Mike Batz’ link to Craig Goldwyn’s Huffington Post article on sprouts, T. gondii in Romanian animals, and F’ed up. Aaron’s email then prompted a discussion about Plague Inc., the CDC’s interest in it and CDC’s own game Solve the Outbreak. The guys were impressed by how progressive the CDC is in terms of social media and new ways of engaging the public. Don then provided some info about HDScores, a company that plans to make Restaurant Inspection Scores from 3100 jurisdictions from the US, Canada and UK widely available. This prompted a discussion about making restaurant scores available to the public in an interpretable way. Ben shared his experiences from a recent trip to Calgary, where his 4 year old son Jack got sick, possibly with Norovirus. Ben was fascinated by Delta Airlines’ approach of dealing with the vomit problem, which involved plastic bags to contain the risk and coffee pods to manage the smell. Don was familiar with the approach thanks to Roderick on the Line. Ben didn’t agree with Delta’s decision to take them off plane first (thus inoculating the plane). It reminded him of two different articles. Both Don and Ben were glad Delta had a plan, even if they didn’t quite agree with the whole plan. Don then wanted to ask Ben about a Meatingplace article by Richard Raymond entitled Is our food safer than five years ago? (free registration needed to read). Ben explained why he didn’t agree with Richard’s arguments. Don agreed and asked aloud about conspiracy theories, not dissimilar from those surrounding New Coke. Don then wanted get Ben’s take on the IFT’s March 2013 media update. In fact both Ben and Don thought that these updates were way over the top and it reminded them of "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons” and Doug Powell’s comment on Barfblog “I'm immediately suspicious of people … who say trust me.” Ben especially didn’t like that organizations say “trust us” and without telling people what the risks are and why they should be trusted. The discussion of food processing reminded Don of Richard Wrangham’s great book "Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.” The last thing on Ben’s agenda was Doug’s comparison between the porn industry and the food industry, which had resulted in a fair bit of backlash against the legendary Doug. Ben noted that Doug’s point was how the two industries differed in how they manage the risks, which people missed. And boy… you mention porn and people get excited.

Food Safety Talk 36: Better Collaboration Without Pants Mar 26, 2013

Show notes

After some initial expected Skype problems the guys talked about a range of topics including their favorite beers, Apple phobias, The Wire, about (not) working from home and Telecommuting policies, writing papers using DragonDictate, Don’s Squarespace 6 trial and Ben’s The Newsroom sharing system. The guys then critiqued some obfuscated food safety messages about Listeria put out Partnership for Food Safety Education. The discussion then turned to the horse meat scandal and that audits are a tool rather than the tool. This reminded Don of the Chinese melamine incident and labeling fraud. The guys then took a short podcasting detour to Scott Simpson’s Your Monkey Called article for The Magazine entitled You’re boring. It made them think about the stories they are trying to tell in podcast episodes, blog articles or presentations. This reminded Ben of the story of Ashley’s lack of emotion to a Norovirus outbreak on UNC campus, but we don’t know how she would react to Carolyn Dunn’s story on Food Myths and Memes of no baby carrots. This turned into a chat about kale, Brussels sprouts, beets, asparagus and bodily functions. Ben then shared his surprise of reading about accelerated aging canned food, which prompted Don to think about a couple of early food science books – Ted Labuza’s “Shelf-Life Dating of Foods” and Harold McGee’s “Curious Cook.” Though Don wasn’t too keen on the idea of aging canned food. The guys then wondered about how a Michigan firm could be operating without a HACCP plan and the subsequent recall. Don then got grumpy about Candy eggs that have all been cleared of Salmonella. Then Ben got on his favorite soap box about the lack of information that is being provided. In the after dark the guys talked about Mobee Magic Charger, HyperJuice 2 external batteries, Don’s ski hat and Ben's toque ,and Ben’s fantasy baseball.

Food Safety Talk 35: The Abuelas of Social Media Mar 14, 2013

Show notes

Don was excited about his new “Dan Benjamin approved” microphone and headphones and Ben was excited about Folding Text. After emailing with Marco, from the Neutral podcast, Don is planning on moving Food Safety Talk to Squarespace 6, which should allow them to get better download tracking information. Don and Ben also sent shout-outs to David Tharp (IAFP), Ian Jenson (Meat and Livestock Australia) and Renee Boyer’s Food Safety class. The discussion then returned to the reusable bag discussion (see FST 34), which was prompted by Tomas Aragon who shared his memo about the “Clickety-Clack” paper. In the memo Thomas pointed out that Klick and Wright had used the ICD-10 codes, for which there were 140 deaths during 2000-2010. However, 111 of these were due to Enterocolitis due to Clostridium difficile, leaving only 29 related to other intestinal infectious diseases. The guys took a quick pop culture detour to iTunes Match which had allowed Ben to rediscover Rancid. Don’s been listening to R. L. Burnside (not R. L. Stine), Bite Harder: The Music De Wolfe Studio Sampler, Vol. 2 and Holy F*ck. On return to food safety they guys discussed an article on Farmers Markets and FSMA and in particular the quote from Kate Flannery. Ben disagreed with Kate’s implication that greenhouse farming was without risks. Don agreed that the risks were different rather than non-existent. The guys then turned to the horse meat scandal in the UK, which is even reverberating through the popular culture twittersphere. Ben challenged Prof. Hugh Pennington’s comments that horse meat was safer than beef, as surely the denominator matters! The discussion then turned to barbeque and roadkill. While you’ll find some vaguely disturbing erotic images you probably won’t find a road kill recipe on the Amazing Ribs website. Ben did discuss the safety of eating road kill in this barfblog article. Road kill is apparently making a resurgence with those who are struggling with food security (i.e. having enough food to eat). Don has worked with Debra Palmer Keenan to help people make better choices in relation to food safety when they have to compromise on the foods they buy. Don had some more follow up from FST 34 in relation to washing coffee mugs. He found some silly advice in this Huffington Post article and he expressed his disgust with this Mamapedia article. This got Ben excited as his grad student, Ben, is working on how to engage people in food safety via social media. Ben’s research will focus on mommy blogs (but probably not Dani’s 2 Little Supeheroes blog or Portlandia's Parenting tips over the coming months. The discussion then turned to Doug’s poop cruise article and that someone sold a bio poop bag on Ebay for $15. Another Barfblog article reported on the closure of Union University in Jackson, Tennessee, due to norovirus and Don contemplated the irony of this happening at North Carolina State University, the home of the NoroCORE project. In the after dark the guys talked about beverages, iTunes Match and MobileMe, and Ben had some questions about establishing variances to food safety standards.

Food Safety Talk 34: Don't puke up the doughnuts Feb 23, 2013

Show notes

Participating in the Krispy Kreme Challenge challenged Ben in more ways than one. Don is looking for a new podcasting mic and he is getting some guidance from Dan Benjamin’s guide. The guys discussed the download statistics for the podcast and Folding Text to manage their pre-show notes, as well as Don’s homework, The Newsroom (Canadian TV series), which prompted Don to correctly note the excessive plaid fashions. Bill Hallman had provided some further thoughts on the “no illness language” in recall notices (FST Episode 33) which led to a broader discussion about recalls, including one for Listeria in Crab Dip. The discussion continued with Listeria, namely Missa Bay LLC's recall due to Listeria in apple slices and the more recent FDA warning letter to the company. Don and Ben were surprised by where and how much Listeria was found by the FDA. The guys agreed that the publication of these warning letters was a good thing – not only for customers, but also to provide valuable information to suppliers of similar products – which reminded Ben of the Blue Pages for teachers. The guys then switched to the Chicago Tribune article “Triclosan: Anti-bacterial soaps called useless, potentially dangerous” that Don had been interviewed for (based on his publication “A Meta-Analysis of the Published Literature on the Effectiveness of Antimicrobial Soaps.”) The average benefit of antimicrobial soaps over normal soaps was about 0.5 log, or 63%, and Don explained that the benefits were greatest when the contamination levels of hands were high, for example after handling raw meat and poultry or after cleaning up vomit. Then Ben and Don got back into the reusable bag discussion. This was prompted by an article by Klick and Wright (not Watson and Crick). Klick and Wright combined Gerba, Williams and Sinclair’s research on bacteria in reusable shopping bags with a pathogenic E. coli related illnesses and deaths in hospital in the San Francisco area. They concluded that the ban on grocery bags led to an increase of 5.4 additional deaths per year, though Ben got really fired up on Barfblog about the lack of epidemiology and microbiology evident in the article. Don also took issue with a couple of lawyers mistaking correlation with causation and recalled FST Episode 19 where the guys had discussed reusable bags, which Carl Custer likes to call nickel bags (or check out this link). Ben then shared that that his department was advertising a local food extension / research position to collect evidence for a range of possible impacts of local food systems, including food safety, nutrition, or related areas. This led to a discussion about local food systems and Don was all in favor of fresh food, such as the locally source food available at Wegmans. In the after dark the guys geeked out with Folding Text, Markdown and its syntax, the octothorpe (not to be confused with Dr. Octavius from Spider-Man 2), Ben’s Garage Band workflow, Apple messages for the Mac, and Ken Finkleman.

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