Food Safety Talk

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Food Safety Talk 53: Raw Milk Hamsterdam Jan 13, 2014

Show notes

The guys battled Skype and CallRecorder, got bedazzled by The Smashing Pumpkins, got a twitter buzz from Beyonce's album, and got lathered up with FDA's focus on antibacterial soaps. They then shared some additional information they received from Cheryl Doom from the American Spice Trade Association (ASTA) on the spice story in FST 52. Cheryl explained why ASTA didn't have a response to the FDA risk assessment as reported in this NYT article and shared a guidance document ASTA had prepared in 2011. The discussion then turned to yet another pruno-related botulism outbreak in a Utah prison. Pruno has been discussed in FST 27 and the investigation of that outbreak has just been published in this paper, including the experimental Pruno recipe. In the IAFP History segment, Don shared Manan Sharma's article on the 1970's, which marked changes to food consumption, food safety and environmental trends, including HACCP and microwaves. After a short 1970's detour to Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus Vol 1, Ben marveled about the advances in microwave technology, including the magnetron. While Ben's new microwave exceeded his cooking expectation, Trader Joe's cooking instructions for Mac & Cheese fell short. In contrast to Trader Joe's, who don't have a social media presence, Don did like Publix who asked for a haiku on Twitter. Don then shared his latest irritation with Fightbac.org. It was prompted by their latest campaign called Bac Down and the misinformation that Listeria monocytogenes can grow at temperatures as low 32 deg F and not 40 deg F. The guys challenged listeners to send in their creative Bac-themed puns for great prices! Ben then wanted to talk about meat in pants, or more specifically Jeffery Arthur Feehan who tried to shoplift meat in his pants. But Ben wasn't quite so worried simply because store employees put the meat back on the shelf (a big yuck factor!), but that Jeffrey took the meat to the restroom for his pants stuffing misdemeanor. Jeffrey's comment to the judges reminded Ben of a famous Animal House quote. The discussion then turned to a recent paper on Raw Milk Consumption. While the underreporting aspect got some publicity, Ben was worried that all the information wasn't going to change people's mind. This had been highlighted in this article on Michigan consumers of raw milk and that's got to do with raw milk proponents not trusting health officials. Ben then remembered the "The Abuela project", an example of an innovative approach to overcoming the difficulty of developing successful education campaigns. The challenge of course is how to develop a campaign when raw milk sales are illegal (as is the case in some states). Maybe a Raw Milk Hamsterdam is the solution?

Food Safety Talk 52: A Keene epidemiologist Dec 21, 2013

Show notes

The guys started the show dreaming about a Red Mac Pro. They then turned to the passing of Bill Keene. Bill has been mentioned in various FST episodes and was a well respected epidemiologist as seen in the articles by the Oregonian and Doug Powell. The guys then turned to their beverages, Coffee Club, Napoleon Dynamite, Homeland, and Car Talk. Ben shared his preference for Aussie Rule football and Arcade Fire's album Reflektor. The conversation then turned to Don's limited iPhone music library, Privateering and Dire Straights, which reminded Ben of Money for Nothing and WWE Wrestling (not WWF Wrestling). To finish they talked about Christmas music, Bad Religion's Christmas Songs, Coulton and Roderick's One Christmas at a Time and Horrible Christmas songs. Ben confused IAFP's History with Bug Trivia and shared Julian Cox's information about the 1960's, and this evolved into a broader discussion about the IAFP and its membership. The discussion then turned back to Bill Keene and some of the outbreaks he had been involved in. This included a Salmonella Panama outbreak (not to be confused with Van Halen's Panama), which was the first outbreak that was solved through the innovative use of supermarket loyalty cards and that Bill and others were sued for (the lawsuit was eventually dropped.. The guys then discussed outbreak investigation in some detail and that public health officials are damned if they do and damned if they don't name commodities and suppliers. There is of course always a risk of getting the epidemiology wrong, as was the case with Salmonella Saintpaul in peppers. Finally, Bill's investigation of a Norovirus outbreak reminded Ben of a recent Norovirus outbreak in Las Vegas. Then Ben commented on an exchange with Chris Gunter, who was presenting on traceability for small producers at the 2013 Strawberry Expo. Chris' presentation is based on the investigation of an E. coli O157 outbreak related to strawberries, in which Bill Keene played a part. In the after dark, the guys reflected on mortality and that we should all Enjoy Every Sandwich. And because they love him, Rob Ford got a mention again and again.

Food Safety Talk 51: Pee on the radiator Dec 04, 2013

Show notes

Food Safety Talk 50: Fifty pink flamingos Nov 19, 2013

Show notes

The guys started the show with a Flamingo flash back, Don’s iTunes Radio “Grateful Dead” channel experiment (sans Katy Perry and Kanye West), New Girl with Zooey Deschanel, She & Him, Steve Earle, The Walking Dead, the Pulling the String podcast, and The Lone Ranger. Don then shared how he used the Internet’s way-back machine (not to be confused with Mister Peabody’s WABAC Machine) to get around the black-out of US government websites. Ben then turned to an NPR article about the Niche Meat Processor Assistance Network and a Kickstarter campaign to create an open source HACCP plan. This lead into a broader discussion of the work undertaken by extension specialists, Don’s ‘useless’ Twitter exchange and how to find out about food safety using Let Me Google That For You. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared information from the IAFP History book about the 1950’s and an increased focus on preventing foodborne illness. Don then returned to his recent Twitter exchange about hand washing with @Frankly and @danbenjamin, which included this article from About.com. The article, which referenced unpublished work from 2000 by Barbara Almanza on hand sanitizers, got the guys fired up about the regulatory system and undertaking effective research on the assessing the efficacy of hand sanitizers. After taking yet another detour into the world of The Wire, the guys returned to hand sanitizers and discussed some research articles, including: Effectiveness of Liquid Soap and Hand Sanitizer against Norwalk Virus on Contaminated Hands Improved inactivation of nonenveloped enteric viruses and their surrogates by a novel alcohol-based hand sanitizer Comparative efficacy of seven hand sanitizers against murine norovirus, feline calicivirus, and GII.4 norovirus Management of Risk of Microbial Cross-Contamination from Uncooked Frozen Hamburgers by Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer To finish this monster show, the guys briefly touched on Foster Farms fiasco, which they’ve kept on their list of things to discuss next time. By the time the after dark came around Don was contemplating a career in pottery, while Ben favored rolling cigars for a living.

Food Safety Talk 49: Less Risky Bathroom Event Oct 14, 2013

Show notes

The show started with Don and Ben sharing their love for iOS7 and iTunes Radio. Ben's still on his Beach Boys trip, having recently watched Beautiful Dreamer. The discussion then quickly turned to food safety follow up. Ben wasn't happy with his Food Safety News interview on dishwasher cooking and the message that he might have sent. Don felt that a really important aspect was the multitude of variables that can change from one dishwasher to another and hence that it was difficult be safe. The guys then discussed some listener feedback about safety of low sugar jellies, which was related to the work of one of Don's master's student. The listener commended the work on low sugar jellies, which will help provide important information to existing Cottage Food Guidelines. The guys then delved into the effects of water activity, pH, sugar contents for the safety of the preserving process and how some products, such as the Cronut Maple Jam, fall far outside the known safe zone. This got Ben onto the Toronto Public Health investigation update on the Cronut Burger outbreak, which was related to the already risky jam not being refrigerated by the producer or the vendor who purchased it. Don then gave Amy Jane Gruber, from Just The Tip podcast, a plug for her participation in the Fare Walk for Food Allergy. You might even hear her on a future FST episode. In the Food Safety History segment, Don shared the initial editorial from the journal of milk technology, which while written in 1937 still resonates strongly with today's food safety activities. Ben then described personal challenge he has urinating in his office building without getting splash back. This reminded the guys of the aerosolization in the bathroom and potential risk that this can pose. Ben then recalled the UPI story about a Swedish man urinating on supermarket produce. While urine is normally sterile, Ben wondered about the risks. While Don couldn't quantify the risk on the spot, he noted that in HACCP terms hand washing after a bowel movement was a CCP while after peeing it could be considered a GHP. But both agreed that sick workers just shouldn't be at work. The discussion then turned to raw milk cheeses, which was prompted by the Gort's Gouda raw milk cheese related outbreak in Canada. Don noted that the rate of inactivation in a particular product was more important that just a '60-day limit' say. That's because the final risk is integrally related to the starting concentration and the inactivation rate. To finish off the podcast Don wanted to talk about the Food Safety News article on food date labels, which was based on this NRDC work. While Don agreed that date labels were confusing, he was also rather sceptical of the underlying work. In the after dark, the guys talked about the new markdown format for the shownotes and planned their podcasting schedules for the next few episodes.

Food Safety Talk 48: Ninja moves to rock and roll Sep 26, 2013

Show notes

The guys started the show with some general chit chat about The Beer Store and [The Nail Shop](http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-nail-shop-omaha), the [Beach Boys](http://www.thebeachboys.com/), including "[Pet Sounds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds)", Chuck Berry, [Bed Bad Baaaaaaatz](http://badbatz.tumblr.com/), Don's [Etymotic hf5 earphones](http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/hf5.html), Twitter, (including [this discussion](https://twitter.com/bugcounter/status/373254508580573184)), and [Barbara M. O'Neill](http://njaes.rutgers.edu/personnel/individual.asp?id%3D416)'s great work. Prompted by a [link](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2398775/30-C-laundry-cycles-breed-bacteria-transfer-germs-underwear-tea-towels.html) from Alejandro Amezquita the guys then turned their attention to laundry and in the process gave the phrase "Eat My Shorts!"meaning. In the article, [Lisa Ackerley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Ackerley) discussed the hygiene of laundering. The guys recalled a couple of research articles by Chuck Gerba related to the topic ([here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135491900969) and [here](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445301908527)). Neither Don nor Ben were particularly worried about this. This reminded Ben of [The Salt article](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/08/25/214799882/dishwasher-cooking-make-your-dinner-while-cleaning-the-plates) on cooking food in the dishwasher. The guys discussed the potential risk of this approach and the sciences that is needed. Another [The Salt article on washing poultry had also resulted in a large amount of social media engagement, which is something the Don and Ben are always keen to explore. And both enjoyed Alton Brown's proper method for washing out th inside of a whole poultry. The guys then moved onto the bug trivia replacement segment called Food Safety History, in honour of a 100 years of the IAFP Journal of Food Protection. In this episode the Don covered the [pre 1940 era](http://www.foodprotection.org/100years/articles/100-yrs-of-iafp-pre-1940.pdf). It all started with the Journal of Milk Technology and the connection with raw milk reminded Ben of this [Toronto Star article](http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/09/30/two_crusaders_a_competing_cause_ontarios_raw_milk_saga.html). Don then wanted to talk about this [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/world/asia/farmers-change-over-spices-link-to-food-ills.html), related to *Salmonella* in spices, and the related [Food Microbiology article](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0740002012002171). Don posed Ben the questions that he was asked for a Q&A based Rutgers media release on this topic and the guys compared their answers. The guys then got fired up about the [Cronut Burger related outbreak article by [Jason Tetro](http://www.foodsafetynews.com/author/jtetro/#.UidMtBabS0s). Ben didn't quite agree with some of Jason's assumptions, so Ben queried the manufacturers about the parameters of the product, which [Le Dolci didn't know](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid%3D10153155762045720&id%3D305381935719). Ben eventually found the answer from Toronto Public Health, and was able to set the record straight To finish off, Don mentioned [The New Disruptors](http://newdisrupt.org/) podcast, which featured [Marisa McClellan](http://foodinjars.com/) in Episode 38 "Yes, we can!"talk about food preservation. Don was pleasantly surprised by her knowledge, including of the National Center for Home Food Preservation. In the after dark the guys continued with canning, including [Canvolution](https://twitter.com/Canvolution), [Canning Across America](http://www.canningacrossamerica.com/) and pink flamingos for their 50th episode.

Food Safety Talk 47: But that's not science Sep 04, 2013

Show notes

The guys started by talking about their office and home podcasting set-ups; how Don inspired his son Zac, podcast sponsorship (thanks Dr. Indian Clarified Butter); the Food Science short course at Rutgers; MC-ing; Ben’s wedding; and, customer service at Frito Lay’s and General Mills. In the bug trivia segment the guys talked about the protozoan parasite Toxoplasma gondii, recently reviewed by Beniamino and colleagues. T. gondii was ranked the second worst pathogen in terms of quality adjusted life years (QALY) by Mike Batz (guest on FST 4) and colleagues, and recently featured on Back to Work. The discussion took a short detour to food thermometers, including the PDT 300, iGrill, and ThermaPen, before coming around to the retiring Pete Snyder, from HI-TM. Pete is held in high regard by both Ben and Don, not only because he wasn’t afraid to ask questions, like Don did in the comment exchange to the Snapper barfblog article. Thanks to Pete’s guidance Ben is always seeking the primary information for creating his Infosheets. A classic example of Pete’s drive for the scientific justification relates to the information produced on thawing poultry at ambient temperatures, which was picked up by barfblog. Ben then talked about the CDC report on the tempeh related outbreak discussed in FST 18. He found it interesting that many of the illnesses appeared to be caused by cross-contamination rather than consumption of the contaminated, unpasteurized tempeh. Don was bummed that his own work wasn’t cited by the CDC, but he noted that Michelle’s recent work showed that cross-contamination was facilitated by moisture. This then turned into a broader discussion around managing risks in a food service setting. Don then wanted to hear Ben’s thoughts about Bill Marler’s question on what cantaloupe and baseball have in common. Bill’s suggestion to change the incentives had the flavor of a Modest Proposal, but without the satire. Ben agreed that retailers and restaurants should be held responsible, as without them there isn’t enough pressure on the suppliers. The guys then discussed third party audits and the setting of supplier standards. Both agreed that the current system doesn’t work how it should and that proper data analysis could provide significant insights. In the after dark the guys talked about Ben’s upcoming trip to Brazil, the PCV show, food safety a-holes, Mexican wrestling masks, the Conference for Food Protection councils, laws and sausages, and getting hurt at the doctor's office.

Food Safety Talk 46: The mother of all messy epidemiology Aug 23, 2013

Show notes

During their podcasting foreplay don and Ben discussed their breakfast choices, their love for guacamole (despite the risks associated with cilantro), and the challenge of separating work from private life. The guys then got onto the recent IAFP annual meeting (abstracts are here), which clearly was a huge success. Ben was impressed by Michelle Danyluk’s deconstruction of the FSMA Fresh Produce rule to create a really convincing story, which included work Don and Michelle had published. Ben then talked about the symposium on Farmers markets[AK1] , which he’s done work on. He really enjoyed Erin Jobe’s talk about the realities of the Carrboro Farmer’s Market, which reminded Ben of the need to expose food safety nerds to the world of small food producers. Lastly, the guys talked about the round table discussion on “Bridging Gaps between Scientific Assessment of Risk and Public Perception” which was reported on Barfblog and Food Safety News. And of course, IAFP would not be a great meeting if there wasn’t Karaoke involved. Moving on from IAFP, Don noted that he’s following John Gruber and Merlin Mann's advice and is podcasting for just one person, Chuck Hass. Turns out that Chuck also sent an email about an upcoming publication on the dose-response curve for Helicobacter pylori (see FST 45). Ben then recalled the conversation about the Salmonella outbreak associated with the Holiday Inn and the article he wrote on Barfblog. Ben queried why employees wouldn’t tell management that they were sick but would tell the health department? Both Don and Ben concluded that it’s surely related to not getting paid while being off work! The discussion then turned to the Cyclospora messiness and that there is disagreement between the epidemiologists. While there is lots of bad advice out there, the most recent information indicates a link to prewashed salad mix to Taylor Farms de Mexico, though this information wasn’t available when ACSH reported that the “mystery was solved". The guys also noted Bill Marler’s interesting thoughts about disclosure as well as why naming a product too early can have consequences. The guys also re-iterating that washed fresh-cut salads don’t need additional washing. To finish off, Ben wanted to talk about Jimmy John’s who are looking at bringing back sprouts, but that they are considering this warning sign. Don felt that this approach was nonsense and that the risks of eating still outweigh the risks of not eating. Instead Don wanted to know about Jimmy John’s food safety program, such as Bob Sanderson’s approach at Jonathan Sprouts. However, from a risk communication perspective Ben wasn’t against the label though he felt that it could be improved. In the after dark the guys talked about Don’s video call with IFT, his appearance on SSKTN’s Show me your Mic (including the After Show me your Mic), preschool and the Food Safety Talk newsletter.

Food Safety Talk 45: My chicken is dry Aug 06, 2013

Show notes

Ben had difficulty talking while eating, which didn’t matter too much while the guys discussed the weather. A link from fan Erin (see also barfblog coverage), on the emerging food-safety-expose genre got Don and Ben warmed up for the show. To follow up from FST 44, Ben’s H. pylori issues have been resolved, though one of his hockey friends had an interesting story involving yogurt. The guys then followed up on the mechanically tenderized beef discussion from FST 43 and FST 44, and a bit about Ben’s grad student’s research plan. The guys then took a pop culture detour thanks to Ben worrying about peaking to early (research wise speaking), which remind Don of a Dan Bern’s Tiger Wood song. The discussion also covered Sound City, and some Australian pop-culture with Muriel's Wedding and The Castle. In the bug trivia segment the guys focused on Vibrio parahaemolyticus, which is the other fast growing bacterium (c.f. FST 39) and can double every 7 minutes under optimal conditions. Don was familiar with this organism as he’s published about the effects of lime juice on V. parahaemolyticus in ceviche. The guys then tossed around some ideas for a follow up segment for when they run out of bugs for bug trivia which included using the IAFP 100 year celebration materials. The discussion then turned to a Food Safety News articles on the NC Farm Bill and Ben thought that there might be some unintended consequences to this Bill. The guys then discussed the broader issues related to the risks of producing food, especially produce, and what this means for liability. The guys agreed that in some cases there just aren’t identifiable contributing factors, such as in the Fayetteville outbreak, and contemplated that this might differ in terms of liability compared to a case where there is clear negligence. The focus then shifted to chickens, which was prompted by this paper in Journal of Food Safety. The rates of Campylobacter and Salmonella found on chickens purchased from farmer’s markets and supermarkets were similarly high. Don was also interested in a link shared by Andreas about raw chicken hand towel, especially because of the comments posted to it. To finish off the chicken theme the guys talked about a Salmonella Heidelberg outbreak linked to a single poultry producer. But the industry and USDA have been vewy, vewy quiet! Ben’s watching The Newsroom again and in the after dark the guys were frustrated by their iTunes ratings and that Carl Winter and even a dog food safety podcast episode was rating higher. Ben also shared the sacrifices he has to make to get new hockey skates. The guys finished off with a trail mix inspired Best in Show, Family Tree, Launch Bar and Food Safety Talk shirts.

Food Safety Talk 44: Stool Sampling Tools Jul 22, 2013

Show notes

The show started with Mr. Roboto, Brazilian Cheese Bread, the upcoming IAFP’s annual meeting in Charlotte, and StoryCorps (not to be confused with Adventure Time). At the IAFP meeting Ben will be stuffing bags at the Food Lion and Don will try to control the unruly Dr. Harris at her first board meeting. The guys then celebrated Canada Day with some pop culture such as The Tragically Hip, Rheostatics and Frampton Comes Alive! (as featured on FST 1), and Reality Bites. Ben and Don then turned their attention to Helicobacter pylori. Ben reported having had a belch inducing H. pylori infection, which was diagnosed by a breath test. It reminded Ben of Don’s asymptomatic H. pylori infection. Don wondered how Ben got exposed to H. pylori and whether it may have been foodborne, which Ben agreed was a possibility. In fact, Helicobacter pylori and Food Products indicates that the organism can also be widespread in some drinking water supplies. Don also noted an article on “Assessing the Risks and Benefits of Treating Helicobacter pylori Infection" which pointed at the possible commensal role of H. pylori. The discussion moved from gastrointestinal microflora, to soil and water microflora and ecology and the impact of microflora on safety of the produce grown in different areas. This turned into a broader discussion of farming and extension and the need for multifunctional teams, such as NoroCore and STEC CAP. In FST episode 43 the guys discussed the silliness of washing bananas, and Ben found yet another ridiculous article on the same topic. Don pointed out the lack of epidemiological evidence linking foodborne illness with bananas, though he recognized that “absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence.” The earlier conversation about bananas prompted Don to post humorous photos of the individually wrapped bananas he found in the United Lounge at São Paulo airport. Don then shared an email from listener ‘Deep South’ who was wondering where mechanically tenderized beef was being sold. An FMI survey of the membership indicated that none of the responding members sold this type of beef. So while it appears that the product is predominantly sold through food service, Ben noted the lack of epidemiological evidence connecting illness outbreaks with food service. The guys then turned their attention to the Townsend Farm related Hepatitis A outbreak, which FDA has now linked to Pomegranate seeds. Ben applauded Bill Keene for focusing on employees first. Ben shared his thoughts about handling of pomegranate seeds and how they could become contaminated with Lynne Terry via Twitter. But are other producers learning from this and asking their suppliers the right questions? In the after dark the guys discussed Ben’s tenure application. Good luck, Ben.

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