Food Safety Talk

Latest Episodes:

Food Safety Talk 83: Many peoples' thermometers Dec 03, 2015

Show notes

Food Safety Talk, a bi-weekly podcast for food safety nerds, by food safety nerds. The podcast is hosted by Ben Chapman and barfblog contributor Don Schaffner, Extension Specialist in Food Science and Professor at Rutgers University. Every two weeks or so, Ben and Don get together virtually and talk for about an hour. They talk about what’s on their minds or in the news regarding food safety, and popular culture. They strive to be relevant, funny and informative — sometimes they succeed. You can download the audio recordings right from the website, or subscribe using iTunes. After establishing that Joni Mitchell is not dead and Nova Scotia is New Scotland the guys jump into food safety of microgreens. There is a wide range of microgreens available. One microgreen company Fresh Origins describes over 400 different types of greens products and has a cursory mention food safety on their website. The guys attempt to clarify the confusing world of sprouts, microgreens, and hydroponic techniques. There is a difference between sprouts and microgreens; Sprouts are sprouted seeds whereas microgreens are often sprouted once and then harvested repeatedly. There are also many different hydroponic designs where plants are rooted in a non-soil substrate and fed by circulated nutrient containing water. Hydroponic production can be done safely but does not guarantee safe food. A lot of circulating nutrient rich water allows bacteria to grow and move around. As with sprouts, the seeds used for microgreens combined with the growing conditions, does create risk of pathogen growth as described in this paper (STEC survival in microgreens). The guys talk Listeria in produce and the challenges of risk assessments. Don is going to a Produce Safety policy conference where he will give a talk on assessing public health risk for product associated Listeria monocytogenes exposure. A 2003 risk assessment ranked Listeria in produce as low risk however produce recently affected by listeria are caramel apples, cantaloupe, and stone fruit and this shows that risk assessments can become outdated. New information is always becoming available, for example, Listeria growth on the outside of cantaloupe at room temperature. The data is also getting more applicable as researchers now appreciate the importance of using relevant strains. Ben and Don discuss consumer recommendations lagging behind food safety science. For example the California Cantaloupe Advisory Board a ‘sliced melon should be stored in the refrigerator until it is ready to be eaten’ while data support a recommendation more similar to deli meats. Something like: if you don’t know your refrigerator’s temperature, eat deli meats and sliced cantaloupe within 2 days; if you know it holds food below 41F, you have 4 days. Ben and Don talked about visiting Austin and the 5by5 studios. And if you are in Texas try to eat at Torchy’s tacos. The guys talk about food retail and Ben gets on a rant about how when people talk about food safety culture they don’t quite get it. Ben describes a frustrating situation he encountered at a food safety meeting: food safety nerds reporting that decision makers respond to perceived risks more strongly than public health risks. Like one retailer spending more resources on hairnets than norovirus control because hair is what their CEO perceives as an issue.

Food Safety Talk 82: Late Breaking Golf Oct 13, 2015

Show notes

Ben and Don start the show by talking about the movie The Parent Trap. Don recommends the original version with Haley Mills instead of the remake with Lindsey Lohan. Ben shares that he often enjoys Amazon.com humorous reviews, like those found here. Ben and Don then reminisce about their recent visit to the Army and Navy club in Washington, DC for a meeting of the Food Safety Preventive Controls Alliance. The guys are looking forward to seeing each other again at the annual IAFP 2015 meeting in Portland Oregon*. Don shares that he has been listening to podcast called “The Dalrymple Report” featuring Canadian guitarist and Apple nerd Jim Dalrymple. Ben may listen on his next run. After 30 min catching up, Ben and Don officially begin the podcast talking about an outbreak of salmonellosis linked to tuna fish where at least 53 people got ill. Don strongly recommends that infants and the elderly not eat sushi. While browsing the Internet for more information, Don concludes that FDA has a better site index compared to the CDC. Then the conversation continues with hand washing. An anonymous colleague contacted Don and Ben regarding the accessibility of hand sink and soaps for food handlers. Results showed an increase in violations of this time over time. The guys then talk about the Food Code in both North Carolina and the New Jersey. Don introduces the Blue Bell ice cream outbreak into the discussion. He references a blog post from The Acheson Group about FDA 483 inspection reports. Ben mentions that because of the outbreak, Blue Bell laid off 37% of their employees. The podcast ends with a (belated) invitation to listeners to attend IAFP, in Portland, Oregon. * Ok, so we are really behind. We know

Food Safety Talk 81: Food safety matters every week Oct 07, 2015

Show notes

After a brief discussion about Quadrophenia, the guys thankfully decide to not sing this episode. Ben mentions that the last video store in the Raleigh area is closing. This led to some discussion about the job security of academic careers where Don stated, ‘prediction is very difficult especially about the future.’ Spurred by Ben’s short visit to Baltimore, the guys then discuss how awesome The Wire is. Don mentions a perspective by David Simon, the Wire’s creator, on the real life situation in Baltimore. Ben was recently in Baltimore for the Food Safety Summit. A nod goes out to Brian Saunders for doing a good job of boots on the ground coverage of what’s going on in Baltimore during the Food Safety Summit. Don recommends Acorn TV for anyone interested in British TV. This subscription service has British programming not typically shown on US TV. At the Acorn website Ben spotted Time Team an archeology reality series that he thinks his kids would love. This week Ben talks about media interviews and a focus on multiple food safety stories all hitting at the same time. He talked a cutting boards post on barfblog that garnered some attention. He also fielded inquires regarding the Blue Bell Listeria outbreak . Ben noted that Blue Bell announced they are recalling all the ice cream. A tragic botulism outbreak linked to a church potluck in Ohio was also a topic in multiple media outlets. The potluck outbreak was linked to home-canned potatoes but the coverage prompted a side conversation about bot and foil-wrapped baked potatoes. Looking ahead to future food outbreaks Ben mentions that a bill was introduced in North Carolina to legalize raw milk. This bill would allow consumers to legally acquire raw milk via a cow share mechanism. In this article Ben is quoted challenging an inappropriate comparison of raw milk outbreak data by the bill’s sponsor. In After Dark Don shames Ben for not listening to Roderick on the Line. Again. - 30 -

Food Safety Talk 80: Literally the hummus I'm eating Sep 19, 2015

Show notes

The show opens with a discussion of Don's mic stand and quickly segues into "Linda's Famous Cigar Story", and Ben's annual pollen throat. After a discussion of their various ailments, Don wishes Ben an almost 37th birthday. Ben is currently expecting a new macbook, which was discussed on Episode 116 of the Talk Show. Don shares his recent experiences looking at Apple Watch in the Apple Store, and his preference for the Milanese Loop and his new burr grinder and aeropress. When the talk turns to food safety, Ben talks about his work with Family & Consumer Sciences in North Carolina, (called Family and Community Health Sciences at Rutgers University) and how Ben has recently changed his training practices from classroom lecture to supermarket and restaurant inspection field trips based on inspiration from Dara Bloom. This inspires Don to talk about the work he's doing to help documentary film makers doing a story on shelf life dating of foods especially milk. Ben shares some of the myths circulating about expired milk including this bogus article from Livestrong, and the work he's doing on expired food and food pantries. From there the discussion moves to other shelf life myths including the egg float or shake tests, and why they are bogus, as well as places to go for good egg information, because someone on the Internet will always be wrong. The discussion turns to recalled hummus recall messaging and Ben's post hockey snacking tips. As the guys wrap up the show they briefly talk about Blue Bell ice cream and the doses of Listeria that might have made people sick and the future of food safety given the advances in molecular biology, clinical microbiology and whole genome sequencing. Ben shares some final thoughts on Salmonella in spices and how whole genome sequencing might impact that industry too. In the brief after dark, Ben and Don talk about yoga, and getting healthy, the Turing Test, and the new Star Wars movie trailer.

Food Safety Talk 79: You’re Into Botulism Country (with Merlin Mann) Aug 07, 2015

Show notes

Merlin Mann joins Don and Ben for a discussion on food safety and cooking using science at home. The episode starts off with a discussion on sous vide and time/temperature combinations for pathogen reduction. The discussion goes to Harold McGee’s On Food and Cooking and the science of cooking, sensory and how heat changes food quality and safety. The guys talk about ground meats risks compared to intact muscle meats and then deconstruct risk assessments with bullet analogies. The guys move into pork and trichinosis and how risks have changed but messages stay sticky. The show ends with a discussion on food safety myths, including confusing food safety and spoilage; storing butter on the counter and ketchup in the refrigerator. They decided to leave an in-depth discussion of Sloan for another day.

Food Safety Talk 78: Brogues are low risk Jul 07, 2015

Show notes

The show opens with the guys reminiscing about their visit to Southern California and the Hopscotch Tavern where they witnessed a Fark worthy car chase on TV. Ben shared his love of Top 40 music , and his worries about exposing his kids to inappropriate music like Beyoncé or Sublime. From there the discussion moves to the value of real world experiences like those detailed in Kitchen Confidential, Heat, or by Gord Surgeoner during his retirement dinner. The food safety talk begins in earnest with a discussion of Hepatitis A illnesses linked to frozen berries in Australia, and Don shared his back of the envelope quantitative microbial risk assessment for frozen berries based on this article. This was followed by a discussion on why viruses might be such a problem in frozen berries, and frozen food safety risk management in general. Next up is an exploration of Listeria in public lavatories based on this peer reviewed publication. The conversation then devolves into "Shoe Safety Talk", and the risks posed by brogues, not broughs, but the brogue shoe. The After Dark includes a mention of Roderick's Rendezvous, The Dan Benjamin Hour, and Don finally remembers the name of Battle Creek.

Food Safety Talk 77: Sous vide is French for under vacuum Jun 18, 2015

Show notes

Ben and Don start by catching up about technology. Ben is quite excited about Google fiber coming to Raleigh, NC, Don, already subscribed to Verizon fios says that the fiber is great. Ben then leads a discussion about his new obsession, the Wake Forest Community discussion board on Facebook. The page is a forum for pretty much anything from tooth abscesses, to snakes, to local business ratings. The guys delve into the community forum concept and explore the intersection with food safety (sale of goods, transportation from out of state). Don mentions that he has been volunteering with the innovation committee in Freehold borough who also is looking at a community forum. Ben introduces the concept of Lip Dubbing and Don provides his favorite, a NFL video about reading of lips incorrectly. The real food safety portion of the podcast starts by Don talking about Better Process Control School. Don talked about some feedback he was giving to a couple of small companies about aseptic processing, challenge studies and jacketed kettles, and expressed some frustration with FDA because sometimes their interpretation of science isn’t clear. The discussion goes into regulatory hurdles, retail food safety, variances and HACCP plans. Ben talked about an individual that is interested in food sustainability who is looking to divert food waste from restaurants to pantries, using reduced oxygen packaging for storage and transport. The guys talk about regulating food even that is given away (but not it all states) and the variance process. NC Senator Thom Tillis garnered headlines for suggesting that restaurants be allowed to opt out of handwashing regulations as long as they post a disclosure or advisory – or replacing one regulation with another. The podcast ends with a discussion of a possible norovirus outbreak at NC State.

Food Safety Talk 76: Get 'em really hot May 15, 2015

Show notes

This episode starts with a discussion of Ben’s taste in music, and they quickly move onto talking documentaries. Ben recently watched Jodorowsky’s Dune, on Don’s recommendation. This documentary has some ‘artful nudity’ that leads to a discussion of perverts on airplanes and the appropriateness of reading material such as Fifty Shades of Grey while crammed into an airplane seat. The conversation naturally transitioned into a discussion of microphone stands and coffee. Ben notes that owning a Nespresso machine has changed his life; he ranks it among his top 10 life changing things (including his wife and children). The guys then discuss other pop-culture topics including Deflate-Gate and TV shows The Affair, Portlandia (which had an episode satirizing raw milk), and Garfunkel and Oates. Note that Portlandia is required viewing before attending IAFP 2015 in Portland this summer Ben leads off the actual food safety talk by mentioning sprouts and the number of outbreaks associated with them. The guys then discuss experiments to validate sprout cooking processes including charred bean sprouts. Ben then brings up the idea of baking cookies in a car and a visit from Linda Harris (who now download and listens). From there the talk turns to pathogen reduction validations for baking processes spurred by Wegmans recall of baked fruit desserts last summer, presumably because they contained peaches recalled for Listeria. The FDA’s Reportable Food Registry, along with CDC whole genome sequencing of pathogens, is enabling more illnesses to be linked to products, as seen in Salmonella Braenderup linked to nut butter. Ben predicts more businesses will have to issue recalls because of validation issues, and the investigations that accompany these recalls will isolate pathogens from within facilities that can be linked to other illnesses which have occurred over months and years prior. The discussion then turns to the very bad blizzard that New Jersey never had. Don discusses the similarities between the models for weather forecasting and models in food safety. Both situations have consequences for over or under reacting; both present risk management and risk communication difficulties. A tweet from The New Yorker made Don mad: Bill Marler may be all that stands between you and Salmonella. This resulted in Don tweeting back to The New Yorker. Ben mentioned it was probably just Betteridge’s Law of Headlines. Bill Marler is probably not all that stands between you and Salmonella; as there are a few more people trying to do the right thing. The guys then go on to discuss how Marler and Caroline Smith DeWaal, a lawyer with the Center for Science in the Public Interest, have become controversial food safety personalities over the years. Don recently was quoted in an article about the safety of various cuts of meat (and Barfblogged here). Don and Ben were so happy Don was quoted correctly, they were able to ‘ding’ their podcast-bell; a virtual high-five. Pork has a reputation for being dangerous but decreases in incidences of Trichinella and Americans tendency to overcook pork have reduced the actual risk, so Ben wanted to discuss a recent MMWR Trichinellosis report. Don mentions ‘The Batz Report’ which determined the top 10 pathogen-food combinations with the greatest burden in public health. This led to a discussion of sample size, detection limits, consumption rates, and risk messaging, leading to the conclusion that cultural practices in food preparation adds complexity to the determination of risk.

Food Safety Talk 75: 76 Trombones Apr 29, 2015

Show notes

At the start of this episode Don is very annoyed because he bought a microphone stand, carried it to various continents without using it, and now he cannot find it. In its absence he has resorted to using a hat. The podcast opens with discussion about making podcasts. A listener asked how episode titles are selected in response to the title of Food Safety Talk episode 68: “We found it in Wild Pig Feces”. The process for podcast title selection is to look for random, out of context phrases from the show, text about them 30-40 times to select one, and lastly make sure it isn’t too long. One of Ben’s students, Lily Yang, also expressed interest in podcasting. He advised she can learn a lot by studying other podcasts. Recommended podcasts are Merlin and Dan’s Back to Work podcast on 5by5 and the WTF podcast especially the episode with RuPaul. Another resource is The Podcast Method website. The focus of this episode was professionals making poor risk management decisions. A health inspector from the Nova Scotia Department of Agriculture tried to stop a mother from breastfeeding in her farmer’s market booth despite the fact that she had proper hand washing facilities. The department later apologized. Ben and Don applaud the well-reasoned response the mother, Tanessa Holt gave. Additional excitement brought to you by the 'Theater of Public Health’ includes a middle school in New Jersey was closed because a staff member had C. difficile . Ben provides an historic example of risk management vs. communication virucidal footbaths were installed at airports in response to foot and mouth disease outbreak with the understanding that they were not effective. The guys talk about how there is often a lack of data to inform risk, for example with the proposed use of hand sanitizer between handling money and then food. Or maybe the data does exist, but isn't at the forefront of public health recommendations (the removal of tomato stem scar). Ben and Don talk about gaps existing between regulations and practical ideas for implementation. Don found Rutgers dining hall did not have a vomit clean up plan and the Food Code is lacking specific best practices. One good resource for vomit clean up is here. The conversation turned to public perceptions of food risks. Food safety professionals are perhaps not proactive about correcting public misperceptions. A counter example is South Dakota soybean producers who aim to correct misperceptions people have about GMOs and pesticides through a new advertising campaign. Don talks about an interview question related to safest cuts of meat. Regarding food safety ranking Mike Batz has created a top ten list of food-pathogen combinations. For better or worse, the Mother Jones article is here. In recall news, Chipotle took a pork carnitas off of their menu because they suspend a pork supplier due to animal welfare concerns. Lastly, Don received an urgent voicemail from the department administrator to sign a very important document and stated that 'lack of planning on other peoples part does not does not constitute an emergency on my part.'

Food Safety Talk 74: Lait de Poo Apr 03, 2015

Show notes

Don and Ben start the show by talking about the drastic weather in Raleigh, NC and Freehold, NJ. They quickly changed topics to beverage preferences, including Starbucks and eggnog. Ben notes he is not a fan of eggnog although his grandparents used to drink consistently. Ben also reminisces about other old-timey eating habits including pickled beets, and buttermilk. Don will stick with eggnog plus whiskey during the holiday season. Ben shared his excitement about a Sloan concert that he recently attended with his wife. Ben also mentioned a thoughtful gift that he received from his wife: a poet (Matthew) wrote a poem for Ben on the topic of barf and Ben was very thrilled. Don also shared his excitement as well as he recently celebrated his birthday, and Merlin gave him a shout out on his podcast. Twenty minutes in, food safety talk officially began and Ben commented on a blog post where the interviewed the research chief of ABC Research laboratories. She was interviewed about raw honey and recommended honey pasteurization to prevent infant botulism. Ben disagreed with her statement, and noted that pasteurization does not destroy the spores present in honey. Don supported Ben and added that pasteurization is even less effective in low water activity foods like peanut butter or honey. According to this fact sheet, honey is pasteurized to reduce the likelihood of fermentation and crystallization over time. Don turned the topic to Ebola in the US, and mentioned Peter Sandman’s post on The public health establishment and the quarantine debate. Sandman complained about how the US handled the Ebola issue. Ben agreed with some (not all) of the post and concluded that risk talk should always be frank. From Ebola the topic turned to Hepatitis E as an emerging foodborne disease. A UK article stated, 1 in 10 sausage carries the risk of Hepatitis E, which seems high to Ben and Don. Don thought that Hepatitis E in the UK might be a worker sanitation issue. Both guys were intrigued by the apparent low risk of Hepatitis E in the US. Peer reviewed research published in Epidemiology and Infection states that Hepatitis E is associated with unprocessed sausage, and 90% of British pigs have exposed to Hepatitis E and produce antibodies. Cooking suggestion including cooking for 20 min at 70 °C or better yet, using a thermometer. Don mentioned a recent contact by a local company asking about safe practices for cooked brown rice preparation. Although the company had a detailed and meticulous workflow, additional information (like product time and temperature) would be needed to insure control of Bacillus cereus, according to Ben. The show concluded with talk about the Month-Long Poop Cruise, the verdict in the Peanut Corporation of America case and the food safety mess in Pro Sports.

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