Food Lab Talk

33. Deb Eschmeyer, Original Strategies May 02, 2024

A food systems policy expert and social impact entrepreneur, Deb Eschmeyer has dedicated her career to the betterment of society. From co-founding the national nonprofit Food Corps, to serving as Executive Director of Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move!” initiative, and driving change in the food industry, her efforts have permanently influenced the way we think about food and health. In this episode, Deb shares her journey as a changemaker emphasizing agility and persistence, finding your “zone of genius”, and balancing perspectives and patience to achieve long-term change.

Deb Eschmeyer: “Don't take no for an answer and just keep pushing and speaking up and showing up. And it’s sometimes really uncomfortable. There's so many people who don't like public speaking. There's so many people who are brilliant and just have fabulous ideas… Speak up, show up, and develop lines of empathy. To be a better change maker is to understand all the different avenues of change it takes to get things done.”

00:00 Intro to Deb

01:44 From farmhouse to the White House: be relentless, speak up, show up

06:30 How empathy and a diverse set of experiences can help you find your “zone of genius”

09:21 Why school nutrition reform can spark system-wide change

13:03 Focusing on the long view and the direction of travel

15:35 Embracing collective responsibility to drive meaningful systems change

18:20 Complexity and the impending food crisis

21:01 Why trust, accountability, and collaboration are key to impactful change

25:10 Deb’s advice: embrace uncomfortable spaces, focus on your strengths, and keep pushing forward

28:25 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

32. Olivia Thomas, Boston Medical Center and Rewire Health Apr 25, 2024

Olivia Thomas is a registered dietitian, entrepreneur, and the co-founder of “Rewire Health”, a culinary medicine platform that simplifies healthy home cooking and expands access to teaching kitchens. In this episode, Olivia shares her experiences building a culinary medicine startup, including how active listening and a multidisciplinary approach can lead to impact-focused solutions.

Olivia Thomas: “We need to be focusing on how resources, especially within food as medicine, can be used to reinvest into disinvested communities... I have been redefining how I work on projects based on the impacts. What foods am I marketing? Who is it benefiting? How is the data being used? And the idea of sovereignty is important and making sure that it aligns with the communities we're focusing on and working with.”

00:00 Intro to Olivia

01:09 From childhood cooking to culinary medicine

02:13 How food-based interventions help manage chronic disease

04:50 Overview of Rewire Health from pitch to startup

07:58 Cultivating a culinary medicine platform

09:49 Enabling personally relevant food choices

11:22 Investing in local communities to impact the whole food system

12:30 Embracing change and using technology to stay ahead

14:24 Why navigating complex systems requires a multidimensional approach

17:00 The role of collaboration and community building

18:14 Using culturally affirming recipes to empower choice

20:51 Accelerating behavior change with personalization, practice, and insight

23:37 Shifting perspectives on the role of food’s impact on health

25:44 Creating sustainable habits

28:15 Redefining problem-solving

29:23 How active listening builds trust and drives impact

30:13 Looking towards the future of culinary medicine

32:23 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

31. Jack Bobo, University of Nottingham Food Systems Institute Apr 18, 2024

Jack Bobo is the Director of the University of Nottingham’s Food Systems Institute which brings together transdisciplinary researchers to address some of the most pressing food systems challenges. He is also the author of the 2021 book “Why smart people make bad food choices.” In this episode, Jack shares how breaking down silos can foster collaboration, why reframing your thinking can help navigate tradeoffs, and how small shifts in language can impact people’s perceptions.

Jack Bobo: “I believe less in right and wrong and good and bad, and more in thinking in terms of choices and consequences. And if you can help to lay out the consequences of actions, I think in many ways you can lead people to knowledge instead of sort of beating them up with science. Researchers and academics love to tell people what to do and they like to tell them the answer. I think it's much better to be able to help people to understand the consequences of different choices. And then you may end up getting a different outcome, but at least they understand the consequences of it and it's an informed decision.”

00:00 Intro to Jack

01:14 Overview of the University of Nottingham’s Food Systems Institute

03:44 Taking a systems approach to lead global change

05:18 Why consensus is important for problem solving

06:45 Addressing the “language barrier” in food systems solutions

08:38 How shifting from “should” to “could” focuses on opportunities and solutions

11:40 Leading people to knowledge by framing the consequences of choices

13:56 Building trust by understanding confirmation bias and the misleading nature of our brains

17:38 The paradox of improved nutrition research and rising obesity rates

20:00 How to overcome the invisible influences on food choices

23:14 Changing the food system by focusing on social norms

25:51 The importance of word choice for effective change making

27:59 Why networking and storytelling are life skills

29:39 Balancing the continuum of local vs. global sustainability

31:37 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

30. Salaam Bhatti, Food Research and Action Center Apr 11, 2024

Salaam Bhatti is the SNAP Director at the Food Research and Action Center, a 501(c)(3) that uses advocacy and strategic partnerships to improve the health and well-being of people struggling against poverty-related hunger in the United States. Tune in to learn how to bring together diverse perspectives, challenge established norms, and seek innovative solutions for modern society.

Salaam Bhatti: “The best way to find change is to go out and find like-minded people. Create a coalition to make that change happen. But if you want to perfect that, then you have to find people who disagree so that you can really understand why you believe what you believe. And maybe there are things that just need education, that just need more facts to help bring them to your side. Or maybe you were wrong and you can come to a compromise or an agreement. But until you get out of your comfort zone, the change you will try to make will only be fleeting and never systemic.”

00:00 Intro to Salaam

01:25 From law to public benefit activism

04:50 How sparking joy drives passion in food justice

06:09 Addressing food insecurity for an equitable food system

08:20 How zoning and economic inequalities exacerbate food insecurity

10:55 Why building strategic alliances can bridge divides to pass policy reform

14:28 Exploring the ripple effects of SNAP program changes on the economy

18:00 Overview of the Food Research and Action Center

19:14 Addressing poverty related hunger solutions and challenges

21:20 How choice and increased access improves health outcomes

26:17 Reimagining food policy for modern needs

28:22 Why getting out of your comfort zone can lead to systemic change

31:11 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

29. Christopher Gardner, Stanford School of Medicine Mar 21, 2024

Dr. Christopher Gardner is a nutrition scientist focused on what foods to eat and what foods to avoid for optimal health, as well as the forces that can successfully motivate people to improve their food and beverage behaviors. His recent research interests include: “stealth nutrition,” which focuses on shifting diets through the integration of non-health related approaches, like the connection between food and climate change; institutional food; and the microbiome.

Christopher Gardner: “I would say the biggest thing for me is humility. I am a nutrition scientist. I understand the mechanism. You should eat that. [But] there is the business aspect, the marketing aspect, the legal aspect, the policy aspect, the cultural aspect, the historical aspect, the storytelling aspect… The humility to recognize how many other disciplines and factors are tugging at people's tongues and hearts and brains, has really been the greatest learning experience for me.”

00:00 Intro to Dr. Gardner

01:03 How nutrition research becomes a Netflix documentary

04:22 Using humor to inspire retention

06:09 The road from philosophy to nutrition science

07:20 The dissonance with access to nutrition information

09:21 Food & Society: External motivators and behavior change

14:51 Why institutions have a powerful role in food systems transformation

16:55 The "instead of what" and "with what" approach to behavior change

21:26 The complex nature of food choice

25:50 How “stealth nutrition” influences choice

29:34 Embracing humility and creative storytelling in science communication

32:18 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

28. Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones, Diabetes Digital Mar 07, 2024

Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones are nationally recognized Registered Dietitians and Certified Diabetes Educators. They are the founders of Food Heaven – a multimedia platform originally founded for women and communities of color experiencing barriers to food, healthcare and nutrition education - and the newly launched Diabetes Digital - a trusted source for virtual personalized nutrition counseling dedicated to diabetes and prediabetes. In their highly successful podcast, videos, books and more, they dive deep into health and wellness topics with a lens on inclusivity and cultural competency.

Wendy Lopez: “Needs vary based on what community you're talking about, what country you're in, what neighborhood you're in. Talking to the people that are impacted the most by the food system to learn more about what their needs are, what they would want out of a food system, is really important because they're the main stakeholders.”

Jessica Jones: “It's also making sure that people have access not only to health promoting foods, but also culturally relevant foods. Because so often people want to come into communities and say, you should be doing this, or, these are the foods that are helpful. And it's like one list. But it's more effective, and we've seen this firsthand, trying to incorporate foods that people enjoy that are part of their cultures and not demonizing those foods.”

00:12 Intro to Wendy and Jess

01:55 The evolution of Food Heaven to Diabetes Digital

03:46 How prioritizing cultural relevance builds inclusive, sustainable food systems

06:35 Celebrating diversity to reduce stigma and shame

08:09 Socioeconomic and cultural factors influence on choice

10:42 Improving access to healthy, sustainable foods

12:50 Building trust through science and lived experiences

15:01 How motivational interviewing balances nutrition advice and personal preferences

18:11 Embracing life’s fluctuations

21:08 Why growing a diverse support community can enhance impact

24:14 The importance of embracing “fun” in business development

26:47 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

27. Clancy Cash Harrison, Food Dignity Movement Feb 29, 2024

Clancy Cash Harrison is a food equity advocate, registered dietitian, TEDx speaker, and international thought leader who challenges the way food insecurity is approached and discussed. Her mission to demolish the stigma around food access places her on the cutting edge of advocacy. Clancy is the founder of the Food Dignity® Movement, a strategic program for leaders who want to shift how they approach nutrition outreach by making healthy food access a priority.

Clancy Cash Harrison: “How can we create solutions that work? First, I had to be humble enough to say I was wrong. One of the questions I started asking myself is, where am I wrong so I can be right? Now we have our volunteers asking the same question. What are we here to learn today from the people that we're working with?”

00:24 Intro to Clancy

01:49 How uncovering personal bias began the Food Dignity Movement

04:56 Breaking down silos to collaboration

07:32 Defining hidden hunger

09:04 Why changemakers should adapt solutions to each unique audience

11:33 Creating solutions that work: “Where am I wrong so I can be right?”

14:19 Taking hunger out of the charity box

16:30 Driving systems change through local agriculture

17:41 How to use skepticism and appreciation to fuel changemaking

19:10 The material impact of one $8,000 walk in cooler

21:23 People are the experts in their life

22:50 Uncovering the “why” instead of judging food choices

25:16 How admitting what you don’t know can fuel personal growth

27:46 Call to action: find the cracks and be the glue

29:17 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

26. Walter Willett, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health Feb 15, 2024

Dr. Walter Willett is a physician and Professor of Epidemiology and Nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He also co-chairs the EAT-Lancet Commission, a group of 37 world-leading scientists working to determine how to provide a healthy diet for a future population of 10 billion people while respecting planetary boundaries. Dr. Willet’s career has centered on the development of methods to study the effects of diet on the occurrence of major diseases. His research has provided unparalleled insight into the long-term health consequences of our food choices.

Walter Willett: “Look at where you are and start off working there. Ultimately at a much larger scale, you'd like to have an impact. But if you don't have control of the dials and the levers at that level, your own food service and wherever you happen to be working or studying can often be improved a lot, and you learn a lot from that experience. I certainly have. Almost everybody has part of their life in a workplace or in their community that they could be making some improvements. And a lot of times that's where the biggest changes start.”

00:22 Intro to Walter

02:43 Connecting human health and the climate crisis

04:24 The Great Acceleration Theory

06:29 Three pillars for food systems transformation

08:47 Harnessing community action to catalyze systems change

10:30 The history of our food choices and related complexity of shifting diets

13:31 Levers to positively influence population diet quality

16:21 What global consumption habits tell us about public health trends

18:02 Lessons from effective grassroots movements

20:50 Building trust, providing better data, and acknowledging uncertainty

24:01 Integrating justice into food systems solutions

26:37 Generational awareness and action on sustainability

28:28 Embracing disciplinary diversity for systems transformation

29:36 Why patience is the #1 skill for change management

31:40 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

The EAT-Lancet Commission on Food, Planet, Health
The Great Acceleration Theory
Scientific Review: Food in the Anthropocene: the EAT–Lancet Commission on healthy diets from sustainable food systems
Summary Report: EAT-Lancet Commission Summary Report (includes Five Strategies for a Great Food Transformation)
Research Article: Improvements In US Diet Helped Reduce Disease Burden And Lower Premature Deaths, 1999–2012; But Overall Diet Remains Poor
Video: What is a healthy and sustainable diet? The EAT-Lancet Lecture - Johan Rockström & Walter Willett
EAT-Lancet 2.0

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

25. Sara Burnett, Burnett Strategy and Communications Feb 08, 2024

Sara Burnett has more than 18 years experience developing brand-building strategies and campaigns. As Vice President of Food Beliefs, Sustainability & Public Relations at Panera Bread, Sara was responsible for the company’s policies on food issues ranging from sustainability to food additives. She also provided menu labeling and education to inform customer choice. Throughout her career, Sara expertly blends her communication skills with a deep understanding of policy, social responsibility, and sustainability, authoring, and managing bold ESG strategies. She is currently the Principal at Burnett Strategy and Communications.

Sara Burnett: “As food professionals, we can all find a way to convince ourselves that we're not part of the problem and we're not part of the solution. And we see it on both ends of the spectrum. When you're at a big food company, you're saying, oh man, it's hard to move this behemoth of an organization... [On] the small side of things, you might say, my voice isn't that big. But the reality is it is a very complicated and connected food system, and there is a role for everyone. So whether you're small or big, you're private or public, you're an NGO or a government… [we] all have an impact, and collectively we can do a lot more together.”

00:27 Intro to Sara

01:27 Sara’s career shift from health and wellness to sustainability

03:05 Collective action and impact: critical elements to a truly sustainable food system

05:15 Coolfood menu labeling to nudge better-for-you choice

07:54 How post-purchase education influences future decisions

10:25 The surprising indirect impacts of calorie menu labeling

14:06 Building trust with customers by working with credible partners

17:04 The levers to support choice: transparency, demonstrating material impact, pursuing authentic solutions

19:40 Merging emotion and science for successful change management

23:20 Why a clear business plan can support resiliency and longevity for sustainability professionals

26:56 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

24. Ravi Dhar, Yale School of Management Feb 01, 2024

Ravi Dhar is the George Rogers Clark Professor of Management and Marketing and director of the Center for Customer Insights at the Yale School of Management. He is an expert in behavior and branding who brings psychological insights to the study of consumer decision-making. Ravi’s research investigates fundamental aspects about the formation of our choices and preferences. His 4Ps Framework for Behavior Change outlines evidence-based “nudges” that can help make healthy choices easier, aligning behaviors with intentions.

Ravi Dhar: “This notion that providing information leads to better choices – there's very limited evidence for that. Providing information doesn't work because of information overload and because of distraction. It will not get their attention. That's where the researcher has to come in and say, when are people most receptive to this information? And that may not be at the moment of choice. It may be at other moments when they have a little bit more free time and they get this information.”

00:22 Intro to Ravi

01:36 Translating business challenges into research questions

03:36 Understanding what meta preferences reveal about consumer behavior

07:33 Three factors that might sabotage our choices

11:25 What, how, and when to provide information

15:20 Persuasion: “Making it fun”

18:35 Process: “Making it easy”

19:51 Possibilities: “Choice architecture”

21:11 Person: “Cost of delaying”

22:54 Understanding the reasonable reasons why people do what they do

26:09 Differentiating between fact-based and feeling-based choices

27:58 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

23. Janet Ranganathan, World Resources Institute Jan 25, 2024

Janet Ranganathan is the Managing Director and Executive Vice President for Strategy, Learning and Results at World Resources Institute (WRI), a global research organization that addresses the urgent sustainability challenges related to food, forests, water, climate, energy, cities and the ocean. She leads the development and execution of WRI’s five-year strategy and oversees WRI’s Research Integrity, Managing for Results, and Data Lab teams.

Janet Ranganathan: “One of the most important lessons I've learned is you can't do anything on your own. You have to do everything together through partnerships and collaborations. You know, if you wanna go far, take many people with you, but don't expect to get there too fast. If you wanna go fast, go alone, but don't expect to get very far. So true.”

00:25 Intro to Janet

01:21 30 years of changemaking

02:02 WRI’s method for impact: Count it. Change it. Scale it.

03:48 Feeding people, addressing climate, protecting land

05:54 Produce, protect, reduce, restore

07:03 A production and consumption problem

07:52 Education to enable change

09:44 Empowering food companies

12:06 Overview of the Shift Wheel

15:32 How the Cool Food Pledge put the Shift Wheel into practice

17:50 From outputs to outcomes to impact

20:40 How WRI connects food and climate change

21:44 Establishing collaborative partnerships for long term success

23:12 Design and act for impact

25:02 Learning from the past to inform the future

27:15 Urgency as a motivator

28:22 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

A Special Message from Michiel Bakker Dec 21, 2023

Michiel Bakker: “Over the course of this season, we’ve explored why we need to shift diets, the many ways of doing that, and identified some of the things that need to happen on a systems level to make these changes sustainable and inclusive.

This time of year is often one of reflection and gratitude. As I reflect on all the incredible conversations from Season 2, I must admit I am truly inspired by all the changemakers who are stepping up and getting things done. This is what it takes to make a tangible, positive impact.

I also want to express my gratitude to you, for listening to the first year of Food Lab Talk. I truly appreciate your support of the show and its community of changemakers. Thank you.

We’ll be back in the new year with more episodes of Food Lab Talk. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube for updates on our next season, which is all about enabling individuals to make informed, and personally relevant food choices.

For now, I invite you to keep pursuing your own bold vision for food systems transformation. Imagine what that would look like. Believe in yourself, because you can make a difference. And, most importantly of all, Act! I hope that you have a joyful holiday season and a bright new year.”

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

22. Ann Cooper, Chef Ann Foundation Dec 14, 2023

Chef Ann Cooper is a celebrated author, educator, and enduring advocate for better food for all children. She has been a relentless champion of school food reform for improved child nutrition. Known as the “Renegade Lunch Lady,“ Chef Ann founded the Chef Ann Foundation in 2009, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping schools take action so that every child has daily access to fresh, healthy food.

Chef Ann Cooper: “In the beginning, I just kind of thought, I know what's right. This is what I want to do. I'm going to push, I'm going to push, and I'm going to push and yell and scream and jump up and down and people will listen. And I think maybe, you know, 25 years ago, there was a place for that, but I've come to learn that system change has to be really inclusive. It has to be collaborative. Doesn't mean I can't jump up and down and yell and scream, but I have to listen as much as I yell and I have to bring everyone to the table. And when you do that, it's maybe slower, but then this change becomes more sustainable and more people come under the umbrella.”

00:20 Intro to Chef Ann

01:14 How a digital lunch box could change the world

04:02 The role of parents, educators, farmers in school food reform

04:50 From renegade to mainstream

06:42 Why collaboration is essential to sustainable systems change

09:10 Pushing from the inside vs. hammering on the outside

10:16 Future opportunities for shifting school foodservice operations

12:05 Working on a continuum to evaluate partners and focus efforts

13:55 The catalyst for change comes from within

15:04 Levers for changemaking: food, finance, facilities, human resources, marketing

17:02 Shedding light on the nuanced school food rules and regulations

19:26 Changing behavior through ownership and education

21:14 The two things that would change everything: free school meals for all and higher reimbursement rates

22:21 What partners, policy, and patience have to do with changemaking

24:43 How to become a leader and changemaker

26:59 Reflections from founding and scaling a social impact organization

31:13 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

21. Joseph Yoon, Brooklyn Bugs Nov 14, 2023

Chef Joseph Yoon is an Edible Insect Ambassador, a world renowned thought leader in entomophagy, the practice of eating insects. He founded Brooklyn Bugs in 2017 to normalize edible insects through delicious, creative, and educational programming. From kitchens and classrooms to stages around the world, Chef Yoon shares the incredible potential of not only edible insects, but the burgeoning innovation in Insect Agriculture to create resilient solutions for our global food systems.

Joseph Yoon: “One of the ways is not to take it from a theoretical dogmatic approach of... ‘We have a sustainable nutrient dense food. It will solve the climate crisis. All we have to do is eat some bugs, friends.’ That would not work. And I think that that's what a lot of the scientists were actually doing. My approach was entirely from the opposite side. ‘We have this delicious, incredible food source that happens to also be sustainable, incredibly nutrient dense, and we can prepare any single dish you can possibly imagine with it.’ The only limitations with insect protein lie with our imagination.”

00:23 Intro to Joseph

01:10 Bugs and sustainable nutrition

02:13 Metamorphosis from fine dining to food justice

04:42 Exploring the wide variety of flavors and functions of edible insects

06:10 Shifting negative thoughts to acceptance and celebration

08:10 Changing our food system is like interdisciplinary calculus

10:42 Regenerative circular nature of insect agriculture

13:18 Following the data to find scalable solutions

15:37 “Bugifying” familiar foods to connect with people

19:28 Balancing marketing, education, and regulations

23:06 Importance of regulatory frameworks, policies, and incentives

24:57 Insect agriculture to improve livelihood

26:16 Elevating the deliciousness of edible insects

29:38 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

20. Bernhard Kowatsch, UN World Food Programme Nov 07, 2023

Bernhard Kowatsch is founder and head of the Innovation Accelerator at the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP), the world's largest social impact incubator dedicated to ending hunger worldwide. The Innovation Accelerator offers 15 annual programs to the broader ecosystem on multiple social impact and sustainability issues, such as hunger, climate change, primary healthcare, gender equality, and emergency response. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Bernhard about how tech solutions can support shifting diets, the importance of centering lived experiences in the change-making journey, and how to balance risk-taking and acute needs to fulfill a long-term vision.

Bernhard Kowatsch: “What I would advise my younger self is to really embrace risk taking and not worry as much. There's inherent risk in so many aspects of entrepreneurial or intrapreneurial decision making. And sometimes, that may mean that you're taking risks that are really, really feeling uncomfortable. However, if you're working hard, if you're smart, if you're working with the right people, if you have the right partners, if you're looking for advice... I think there's so much impact that you can make. Just try it out. Make experiments if you don't know what the right solution is. Take one step at a time.”

00:46 Intro to Bernhard

02:30 Overview of the WFP and Innovation Accelerator

03:59 How the WFP helps close the impact-making gap

06:05 Co-benefits of the WFP Innovation Accelerator

08:04 Using blockchain technology in times of crisis

10:33 An open innovation approach to solve hunger

13:30 Why technology can support sustainable food systems

14:41 Balancing the tension between risk, rapid innovation and known solutions

16:54 Investing in a combination of solutions to support long-term strategy and acute needs

19:09 Ancestral Markets: preserving knowledge and heritage of food

21:17 Fenik Cool Box: extending shelf life of fresh produce

22:44 H2Grow: growing food in impossible places

25:05 Adapting known solutions through community-driven problem-solving

26:50 Do we need another accelerator?

29:17 Embrace risk-taking and worry less

31:18 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

19. Eve Turow-Paul, Food for Climate League Oct 31, 2023

Eve Turow-Paul is an author, globally-recognized thought leader, and the founder and Executive Director of Food for Climate League (FCL). FCL is a nonprofit that is on a mission to democratize sustainable eating and empower action towards climate-smart eating through campaigns, toolkits and behavioral design interventions. By facilitating a deeper understanding of how people think and make decisions, FCL creates narratives and implementation strategies that reframe climate-smart eating as enticing, accessible, and culturally-relevant. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Eve about the complex nature of behavior change, the hidden drivers influencing food choices, and the importance of listening to and learning from the community to drive lasting change.

Eve Turow-Paul: “[There’s] this myth that most people don't care about the climate crisis. No, the vast majority of people care. That doesn't mean that it's driving their everyday decisions because we have record high rates of loneliness, stress, depression, anxiety. There are so many other immediate things that are shaping our decisions. Sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's availability, sometimes it's just comfort. You have to be able to paint people a picture of the eventual benefits. Most of the work we [at FCL] do is focusing on the ‘here and now’ including how we make [shifting behavior] something that is related to someone's own personal identity and their immediate needs and values. It's kind of like an added benefit of, oh, and by the way, it's also good for the environment.”

00:16 Intro to Eve

00:49 Understanding how stress, anxiety, & depression influence food behaviors

03:04 The impact of the market research intention-action gap

04:14 Why research is essential to bending food culture in a more sustainable direction

05:28 Co-developing narratives to build trust

07:20 Untangling the complexities of food- and environment-related narratives

09:01 Linking narratives to Self-Determination Theory and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

13:10 Myths and false stories hinder consumer choice and business decisions

14:23 Freedom of choice and unifying truths in a world of polarization

18:59 How human experience influences motivation to change

20:35 The tension between instant gratification and long term ramifications

23:06 Case study: Embracing plant-forward foods in workplace cafeterias

27:44 Creating change by peeling layers of the “onion”

29:48 Perception and behavior: Why narrative isn’t the only tool

33:18 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

18. Bonus Episode: Wadhwani AI Oct 23, 2023

Wadhwani Institute for Artificial Intelligence (Wadhwani AI) has been actively building and deploying AI solutions for underserved populations in developing countries since 2021. As a Google.org recipient, they are using AI to bring the world’s agricultural expertise to every farmer, protecting critical crops and mitigating the threat of hunger for billions of people. On this special episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Aditya Nayan and Soma Dhavala from Wadhwani AI to discuss the importance of understanding the audience and building trust when implementing novel programs, demonstrating value before scaling, and “open sourcing” innovation to open the door for other changemakers.

Wadhwani AI: “We're always inclined to think, okay, what is the specific problem statement that you're solving, how you're solving it and all that. But we're obligated to look at the larger system and see the value. So even in the case of CottonAce, there is as much value in that farmer getting the advisory as there is that the ministry can get a sense that this is the kind of infestation that's happening in these places and I can know that in real time. That's a starting point so that a year, two years down the line, I can create a predictive system which will help me prepare better. That's something that we didn't know in 2019 when we won the Google AI Impact Challenge. We didn't know this part of it. So it's this system thinking that where innovation also has to go and how things that we do maybe on the field, how they plug back in into the larger system is very important.” - Aditya Nayan

01:11 Intro to Wadhwani AI

03:36 How AI can add value in a rural environment

05:22 Why education is critical to adoption of novel technologies

06:19 How smartphones make AI and data accessible

07:17 Proof of concept with CottonAce

09:59 Scaling CottonAce principles to more crops

10:54 Building trust in technology through community engagement

12:35 Considering reliability and safety when developing new technologies

13:12 Open sourcing and “open syncing” for datasets, models, and innovation

15:20 Data is relative - how to determine impact

17:15 Measuring direct impact vs. indirect network effects

19:47 Why systems thinking is important for problem-solving

22:07 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

17. Devon Klatell, The Rockefeller Foundation Oct 17, 2023

Devon is the Vice President, Food Initiative, at the Rockefeller Foundation. Devon oversees the Good Food Strategy in the United States, working to advance a more nourishing, regenerative and equitable domestic food system. In this role, she collaborates with stakeholders across the food system to increase consumption of healthy, sustainably produced foods in underserved communities. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Devon about the complexity of systems change, the importance of engaging with a variety of people and perspectives, and why nutrition education isn’t the only tool for shifting diets.

Devon Klatell: “I think we get a little lost thinking that we all can go from the same A to B when talking about shifting diets. I think nutrition education is a really important tool in shifting diets and it's not enough. So let's educate them, but let's also make sure that they can afford to buy the foods that you're recommending that they eat. Let's also make sure that those foods are available to them in a place that they can get to in their busy day. That they have the transportation to access. Let's make sure that they're culturally appropriate. Let's make sure that our policy framework supports growing and producing those foods just as much as it supports growing and producing other foods. One of the big mistakes we've made in the past around shifting diets is being overly focused on one solution.”

00:10 Intro to Devon

01:10 From late night food shows to shifting food systems

05:28 Why we need to talk about multiple food systems at different scales

07:35 Unintended consequences of food system complexities

09:19 Making opportunity universal and sustainable

11:12 How the health impacts of the food system carry a $1T price tag

14:32 Why we cannot ignore the scale of the problem

16:44 Shifting the focus of healthcare to nutrition

18:41 Personalizing the path to shift diets

21:13 Systems change as a “yes, and” exercise

22:46 Shifting diets vs shifting lifestyles

25:14 Balancing food as medicine and joy of food

27:59 Using healthcare resources to lower barriers to healthy eating

30:24 Theory of Change: How Rockefeller Foundation is making invisible problems visible

35:13 Why it's important to invite skeptics to your table

37:22 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

16. Stephen Ritz, Educator and Founder, Green Bronx Machine Oct 10, 2023

Stephen Ritz is an educator and the founder of Green Bronx Machine, a non-profit that builds healthy, equitable, and resilient communities. Using a school-based model, the Green Bronx Machine is inspiring healthy students and healthy schools through inspired education, local food systems, and 21st Century workforce development. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Stephen about the importance of listening, how passion and authenticity can inspire change, and the power of a supportive community to push you in the right direction.

Stephen Ritz: “This work is hard and it requires a lot of courage, to be sure. But the opposite of courage isn't cowardice. The opposite of courage is conformity, because even a dead fish can go with the flow. And I am no dead fish. I'm gonna swim. You're gonna swim. We're gonna keep getting upstream until we spawn. And I find those amazing people and those amazing opportunities that just give me one more hop. That's what it's all about. For far too long, people have gotten fat off the dysfunction of communities like mine. Many people are well intended. But they are thriving while our community is barely surviving. And we need to flip that script and flip that ownership.”

0:43 Intro to Stephen

1:33 What a cheese hat has to do with the fight for equity

2:49 How onions inspired the start of Green Bronx Machine

10:01 Green Bronx Machine’s mission: equity and access

11:03 Food as the most important school supply

12:31 Fighting for the underdog: the students

14:01 Courage and swimming upstream

14:47 Get started, show up, and be consistent

16:03 Building courage by finding your community

17:25 Inspiring long-term habits through early exposure

19:35 Secret ingredients for win-win partnerships

21:38 Sparking real change through policy and grassroots engagement

23:25 Examples of purpose-driven companies

25:02 Nail it before you scale it

27:48 Creating the next generation of heroes

28:48 Advice: don’t settle, don’t compromise

30:46 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

15. Paul Newnham, SDG2 Advocacy Hub Oct 03, 2023

Paul Newnham is the Executive Director of SDG2 Advocacy Hub, which coordinates global campaigns and advocacy to achieve Sustainable Development Goal 2: To end hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition, and promote sustainable agriculture by 2030. To help transform food systems, Paul and his team are leading projects such as the “Beans is How” campaign, which promotes the nutritional, environmental, and economic benefits of beans. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Paul about leading with empathy, investing in relationships, and intentionally communicating your theory of change.

Paul Newnham: “I think we often think that ideas are the thing that drive, but ideas are only as good as the people and the networks that carry them. And so I think investing in networks, investing in relationships is really critical. Within that, an insight that I've learned is to diversify that. Sometimes we go deep within a particular sector, but we don't look across. It's really important to look across both horizontally and vertically within your given field. And I think it's about building those kinds of webs so you can succeed in getting a message out there or a cause to gather momentum.”

00:40 Intro to Paul

01:28 How culture and development led Paul to SDG2 Advocacy Hub

03:28 Chefs bridge the gap between food systems and hunger

05:20 Equity and leading with empathy

07:07 Joy and celebration as a catalyst for change

08:13 Optimism, tenacity, and “getting to the next hill”

10:17 Overview of SDG2 Advocacy Hub

11:33 Sustainable food systems are diverse, responsive, and giving

12:27 A food system is like a mixing table

14:57 Shifting diets through supply and demand

18:05 Convenience, cost, and taste as food purchase drivers

19:47 Beans as a way to drive systemic change

23:03 “Beans is How” - Theory of Change

24:00 Using policy levers

25:08 Building the model to accelerate food systems change

25:53 Why an explicit framework builds lasting momentum

28:16 Importance of investing in diverse networks

30:26 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

14. Jennifer Bushman, Fed by Blue Sep 26, 2023

Jennifer Bushman is a sustainable seafood expert, communicator, and strategist who has been championing ethical aquaculture for more than two decades. She is the co-founder of Fed by Blue and creator of the Sea Pantry initiative which educates consumers on how to make responsible seafood choices every day. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, Michiel speaks with Jennifer about the power of people, the importance of generating proof of concept, and what search engines or social media has to do with influencing change.

Jennifer Bushman: “People are consuming media in a lot of different ways. Both on the plate and through YouTube... people are out there searching for information. How we utilize that for good is very important. When you ask Chat GPT what a blue food is, it goes down the blueberry path. So we have to start to make sure that information is out there, that we are sophisticated in the way in which we're reaching consumers, where they are and how they're getting information. To really create scale, it's going to have to be all the parts that create the sum. And I don't know that we know yet how the best way is to change consumptive behavior. Because to be honest with you, it hasn't been done.”

00:24 Intro to Jennifer

01:15 Jennifer’s journey from land to sea

03:18 “Blue Foods” vs. sustainable aquaculture

04:23 What show choir and activism have in common

06:40 How to stay motivated in the long arc of change

10:09 Why our food system is a complicated puzzle

13:46 The importance of a strong support system + network

18:37 What does it mean to shift diets?

22:50 The tension between supply and demand

24:11 Generating proof of concept

25:41 Building a U.S. aquaculture supply

27:56 Harnessing the power of people

29:16 Using Google Search, YouTube and other media

31:27 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Follow Food Lab talk on YouTube and LinkedIn

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

13. Greg Drescher, Culinary Institute of America Sep 19, 2023

Greg Drescher is senior advisor for strategic initiatives at The Culinary Institute of America, where he strengthens innovation in health, sustainability, culture and culinary insight. He played an instrumental role in developing the college’s Worlds of Flavor International Conference and Festival and co-led the Menus of Change initiative. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Greg about how changing a system is like peeling an onion, why deliciousness is a key ingredient to successfully shift diets and why you should work with people outside your “lane of expertise.”

Greg Drescher: “If you're asking people to shift diets, what you're asking them to shift towards has got to be at least as appealing as what they have now. There's the notion of the unapologetic elevation of deliciousness as a public health imperative. It's important for the public health community to not just say in passing that ‘healthy food needs to taste good,’ because on the other side, people are trying to make food craveable. If you're putting up merely ‘taste good’ against ‘craveable’, you're gonna lose every time.”

00:36 Intro to Greg

01:57 Why we need to reconsider whether “the system is broken”

03:10 What does it mean to shift diets?

05:48 What motivates chefs to drive change

08:16 What you shift towards has to be at least as appealing as what you have now

09:57 Multiple approaches to seed change: ownership, desire, and experience

12:38 No “one size fits all” solution - tailor for culture, traditions, and geography

16:30 Levers to inspire change

17:15 Why language matters

19:30 A case study in building consensus

22:57 Menus of Change: The business of healthy, sustainable deliciousness

24:37 Building an accelerator for change

25:25 Why early success can ignite systems change

26:39 Value of working with people outside your area of expertise

28:17 Takeaways for changemakers

Links

Keep in Touch

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

12. Kathy Cacciola, Season One Reflections Aug 15, 2023

On this episode of “Food Lab Talk”, host Michiel Bakker is joined by Kathy Cacciola, global sustainability lead on the Google Food team. Together, they reflect on their thoughts, impressions and learnings from Season 1, including the importance of community in food systems and practical advice for changemakers. Our favorite takeaway: In complex systems, you learn by doing, so get started!

00:20 Introduction to Kathy Cacciola

02:15 Kathy’s Season 1 impressions: No ego, reframing food challenges

03:30 The personal connection, perspectives and positivity

06:45 Understanding the complexity of food systems

11:20 Community and moving at the speed of trust

14:54 Season 1 practical takeaways for changemakers

16:50 Michiel’s changemaking advice: Frame, orient, mobilize

19:15 Kathy’s changemaking advice: The value of naysayers

20:12 The many roles of changemakers

21:38 Previewing Season 2: Shifting Diets

24:04 Our parting thought: Food creates relationships

Links

Don’t miss Season 2 of Food Lab Talk “Shifting Diets,” launching September 2023.

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

11. Emily Broad Leib, Harvard Law School Jun 20, 2023

Emily Broad Leib is the Founding Director at the Harvard Law School Food Law and Policy Clinic where she and her students are working to simplify and sometimes modify legislation to help changemakers combat food waste. She and her team developed the Global Food Donation Policy Atlas, a tool with country-specific findings and recommendations that can help accelerate progress to overcome legal barriers to food donation and recovery. More recently, the team has been involved in developing a federal food waste policy in the U.S. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Emily about how her work is enabling many of the changemakers we’ve heard from this season; staying motivated when the pace of change can feel slow; and what you can learn from lawyers about moving around roadblocks and accelerating progress in your work.

Emily Broad Leib: “I recognize lawyers have a really specific skillset, but I'm constantly conscious of the fact that our skillset only is a useful tool in combination with some of these other skillsets. So whether it's, working with people in the sciences or in public health that are collecting data on what solutions work and then we're unlocking the ability for those to go forward. Or whether it's working with the entrepreneurs who have the really good idea and we're putting the wind in their sails to say, if you change what you're doing slightly, you can comply with the laws. I think law is very much a tool that pairs really well in combination with others.”

01:03 Intro on Emily

04:11 The intersection of law and food waste reduction

05:44 An “illegal” grocery store sparks policy changes

07:02 “To a hammer, everything looks like a nail” – how to use other tools

08:40 The skills lawyers employee to move around roadblocks

10:54 Staying motivated with a long time horizon

14:09 How a lack of clarity can block change

14:35 How a lack of incentives can block change

15:00 Global areas of opportunity for changes in policy

17:15 The Global Food Donation Policy Atlas

18:50 Global system commonalities and collaborative wins

20:15 The actions moving the system to better support technical solutions

23:05 Scaling known solutions versus exploring the unknowns

25:38 Navigating partnerships to support progress in the broader ecosystem

29:00 How to demonstrate progress when the pace of change is slow

31:35 Emily’s theory of change

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

10. Ashley Zanolli, EPA Jun 13, 2023

Ashley Zanolli has been a food waste warrior for more than 17 years, working on various state and national government initiatives to support sustainable food management, water quality and climate sustainability. While at the Environmental Protection Agency, Ashley’s team developed the community-based social marketing campaign “Food: Too Good To Waste” to inspire behavior change and reduce food wasted at home. Today, she advises on the development and implementation of a national strategy to reduce wasted food and increase organics recycling across the supply chain. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Ashley about how her career path has transformed the way she thinks about protecting the environment and addressing climate change; her learnings on how to guide consumer behavior change; and her perspective on the role of government in combating food waste.

Ashley Zanolli: “The timeline for systemic change is rather long, relative to our lifetime. How do you set the stage as if it were a play so that the props we need to build the food system we want are eventually the only ones that are available? And you can do that through policies, through incentives, through different structures so that disparate entities and non-traditional partners start to see what's in it for them in new ways. At this point, given projected climate impacts, security of supply inflation, the stakes are too high not to work together and I think you are de-risking the system when you focus on preventing food waste.”

01:07 Intro on Ashley

05:49 Redefining the term “food waste”

07:29 Government’s role in fighting food waste

08:35 Driving action and prevention through comprehensive goal setting

09:43 Amplifying systemic impact via public-private partnerships

13:00 Staying motivated to drive slow-moving change

17:23 Opportunities to fight waste in the system

18:20 Why we need to break down silos and measure differently

21:31 How might we accelerate progress on known solutions?

23:00 Consumer behavior change as the “unlock” to progress

24:10 Incentivizing boots on the ground

25:16 How to: guide systems change

27:02 Focus on the outcome, not the solution

28:20 What it takes to influence a system: translating, listening, and more

30:56 Why you shouldn’t be afraid to ask dumb questions

32:29 Anyone can be an expert

33:36 Doing work “with” not “for” people

35:25 What to look for in a mentor and where to find one

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

09. Bill Birgen, SAVRpak Jun 06, 2023

A former rocket scientist and lifelong inventor, Bill Birgen is the Founder and Chief Technology Officer at SAVRpak. Fed up with soggy lunches, Bill developed a pocket-size thermodynamic solution that created the perfect atmosphere inside his lunchbox, keeping his salads and sandwiches fresh and crisp. This technology evolved into SAVRpak’s Drop-In solution, which eradicates condensation - the number one cause of premature molding, wilting and spoilage of packaged produce like berries and leafy greens. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel hears from Bill about the tools that helped him accelerate SAVRpak’s growth; his reflections on pivoting from a “9-5” into entrepreneurship; and why validation was the key to unlocking SAVRpak’s success.

Bill Birgen: “In the U.S., people throw away almost $2,000 worth of food per family and educating the consumer is the most difficult. Selling B2B and going to an executive, saying ‘your farm can be more profitable if you’re not throwing away as much’ is an easier conversation. We’re having that adoption now, but long term there is a huge opportunity for families and a consumer solution.”

01:51 Intro to Bill Birgen

04:08 From rocket science to reducing soggy lunches

05:47 The origins of SAVRpak

07:50 The state of SAVRpak today

08:11 SAVRpak’s Drop-In solution

10:20 Communicating a seemingly simple, yet nuanced and complex solution

12:14 Winning over the skeptics

13:45 The steps to scale from a prototype

14:35 Pivoting to become an entrepreneur

15:28 Reflecting on lessons learned from launching a new technology

16:02 How to find the right stakeholders to validate and adopt your solution

18:54 Top takeaways for changemakers

21:19 Using your network to build a team

22:33 Long-term opportunities for reducing food waste

24:15 Accelerators and blockers for shifting consumer behavior

25:31 What’s next for SAVRpak

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

08. Anna Hammond, Matriark Foods May 30, 2023

Anna Hammond is the Founder and CEO of Matriark Foods whose mission is to divert surplus food headed to the landfill and create healthy products for food service, retail and emergency food supplies. What many home cooks have done at home for centuries, Matriark is doing at scale. The company upcycles farm surplus and fresh-cut remnants into flavor-packed pantry staples like slow-cooked pasta sauces and low-sodium broth concentrates. On this episode of Food Lab Talk, you’ll hear about how Anna and the team at Matriark developed a new supply chain to support upcycling, why she decided to start a packaged food company after an already impressive career in public service, and her advice for growing a team at a purpose-driven organization.

Anna Hammond: “The whole consumer package goods industry is very slow, and I'm very impatient. I was quite naive when I went into that thinking that, okay, well food service is big. Items are bought in pallets, not in units… and it just seemed like if our main goal was to divert, wasted food from landfill, feed large numbers of people, healthy food, and create more revenue streams for farmers, we should go for the big sales and the big impact.”

01:06 Intro to Anna

03:14 Matriark Foods’s mission and impact

04:28 The “why” that catalyzed Anna to found Matriark Foods

07:20 Anna’s first major roadblock: finding a copacker for her products

09:14 How ingenuity led to the launch of Matriark

11:48 Focusing on foodservice channels to maximize impact

15:30 Pivoting the business while staying true to the value proposition

17:31 Lessons learned while developing an upcycled product

19:14 The traits Anna seeks when building purpose-driven teams

20:19 What changemakers can learn from free climbers

21:48 Balancing the business to accelerate systems change

25:36 Anna’s advice for the next generation of changemakers

26:27 ATX Free Fridge Project and Matriark

29:38 Matriark’s newest product

Links

● Learn more about Matriark Foods

● Shop for Matriark Foods online

● ATX Free Fridge Project

● The New York Times: Eliminating Food Waste One Sauce at a Time

● Thrillist: Matriark Turns Wasted Vegetables into Climate-Friendly Pantry Staples

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

07. James Kanoff, The Farmlink Project May 23, 2023

James Kanoff co-founded The Farmlink Project in 2020 while being a student at Stanford University. When the COVID-19 pandemic caused Stanford to send students home, James and his fellow classmates knew they had to do something to help their local communities. They created The Farmlink Project with the intention to rescue surplus food from farmers and deliver to food banks and families in need. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with James about how The Farmlink Project has grown to recover and deliver more than one hundred and ten million pounds of fresh fruits and vegetables; what inspired Kanoff to “never stop” in his pursuit of change; and why his dream is to put himself and his co-workers out of business.

James Kanoff: “Maybe it’s just being a college student; call it naive. But we’re going to try, because what else can we do? What is the other option? The alternative is (the) food bank completely runs out of food. You have literally freeway passes of lines. We have to try something.”

01:51 Intro to James Kanoff

02:55 The origins of The Farmlink Project

06:03 Identifying which types of farmers have surplus produce

08:07 Growing Farmlink from a one-off project to a larger movement

10:03 Food loss and waste is not just a pandemic problem

11:20 What gave Kanoff and other early founders the audacity to tackle food loss and waste

12:19 What keeps students committed to this problem post-pandemic

13:22 The state of The Farmlink Project in 2023

15:05 Farmlink’s mission and vision for the future

16:21 Moving at the speed of trust

19:09 Dream big, start small, move fast

22:42 How Farmlink is funded

24:12 How listeners can get involved with The Farmlink Project

26:39 The Farmlink community

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

06. Adam Litle, Sound Agriculture May 16, 2023

Adam Litle is the Chief Executive Officer at Sound Agriculture, an organization that is unlocking the natural power within plants to help agriculture adapt faster and become more resilient. Sound has partnerships with over a dozen companies to improve flavor, reduce spoilage, and increase yield in a variety of crops. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Adam about Sound’s groundbreaking technology that enables rapid innovation in crops like their Summer Swell Tomato, how Adam addresses skeptics of novel technologies, and why he believes sticking to your passion and “putting one foot in front of the other” are key to make a lasting impact on food waste.

Adam Litle: “Nature often does this on its own. You do see sweeter tomatoes, berries, etc. You do see longer shelf life and skin like this, but you have to do that through random change and crossbreeding that takes ten years or more in a lot of cases. Versus, why not, find a natural way to speed that up, in a more targeted way? And most people that resonates with. If you’re showing a consumer how some of this technology can be used to decrease cost, to have less damage from fertilizer, or other traits, or less food waste, or help with their health, I think that changes the conversation drastically. I’ve seen people be a lot more open to that.”

01:06 Intro to Adam

04:15 Background on Sound Agriculture and its products

07:27 How On Demand Breeding helps reduce food loss and waste for retailers and consumers

09:39 Proving the market and setting the price for a premium product

12:41 Addressing skeptics of novel technologies

14:29 Differences between GMO and epigenetics

15:17 Why a “purist” mentality could be detrimental to future proofing our food system

16:44 The role of technology in transforming how we shop for fruits and vegetables

18:45 Sound Agriculture’s mission-driven approach to support a more resilient food system

21:43 Developing data to support proof of concept and win over the doubters

23:51 Adm’s advice for making a lasting impact on food waste

26:32 Balancing consumer education and transparency

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

05. Amy Keister, Compass Group May 09, 2023

Amy Keister is the Global Director of Sustainability at Compass Group. She leads a visionary team shaping the future of foodservice, focusing on business growth, and leveraging strategic partnerships to create positive change throughout the food system. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Amy to hear about how “Stop Food Waste Day” went from an idea to a global day of action, how education plays a role in scaling food waste solutions, and Amy’s formula for influencing and building change.

Amy Keister: “At Compass we are extremely decentralized on purpose and I think that’s why we are able to be the world’s largest. We really pride ourselves on being local and having a customized approach in every single one of our offerings.”

01:02 Intro to Amy

03:01 Why Amy went “all in” on sustainability

04:43 The “purist” versus the “realist” mindset

06:22 Setting food loss and waste reduction goals

08:28 Tools and benchmarking against goals

09:21 The important first step to accelerate progress

09:57 Incentivizing individuals and leaders to advance a goal

11:38 Sharing your learnings to inspire others in your organization

12:42 Turning personal passion into systemic action

13:51 Balancing consumer demand and building trust

15:18 How Stop Food Waste Day drives awareness and scales change

17:40 Overcoming a bias for convenience

19:00 A case study in choice and consumer behavior

20:05 Breaking down silos for an integrated sustainability approach

22:20 Why its important to find people on the opposite side of an issue

25:05 Embracing the tensions in a system

27:07 Making the business case for sustainability

29:16 Amy’s formula for influencing and building change

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

04. Matt Rogers, Mill May 02, 2023

Matt Rogers is the Founder and CEO of Mill, a startup that helps customers turn their food scraps into farm feed. As a former engineer at Apple and cofounder of Nest, Matt understands how to create products that drive lasting change. He believes technology, coupled with deep empathy for the user experience, has the opportunity to solve a problem like food waste in a way that is impactful for both people and the planet. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Matt to hear what inspired him to found Mill, how Mill is making food waste reduction at home more convenient, and his advice for other entrepreneurs passionate about transforming the future of food.

Matt Rogers: “Oh, man, if I could dare to dream, I would love to say that we could stop sending things to landfill. Now, obviously we're starting with food and food waste is a huge issue, but what if we could end waste? No one likes waste, but we've kinda accepted that it has to exist. And what if it didn't? That would be the dream one day.”

01:01 Intro to Matt

04:23 Inspiration for Mill and advice for starting a company

07:40 Addressing a systemic problem through behavior change

09:13 Mill’s new food waste reduction system

11:30 Designing hardware to inspire adoption

12:27 The “toothbrush test” for scalable consumer solutions

13:30 Articulating personal benefits to win over skeptics

14:31 Aligning your economic model with your company ethos

15:54 Business considerations for scaling a consumer goods company

18:24 Balancing opportunity cost, team structure, and other considerations when starting a business

20:57 Incentivizing customer engagement

22:38 Raising awareness and changing habits through storytelling

24:40 Navigating the ups and downs of entrepreneurship

26:17 Using individual action to catalyze systems change

28:18 Learning from other companies, countries, and stakeholders

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

03. Neel Ghose, Robin Hood Army Apr 27, 2023

Neel Ghose is the founder of the Robin Hood Army, a zero-funds volunteer-based organization that is using food redistribution as a medium to connect with others and solve for the problem of excess food at restaurants, grocery stores, and other foodservice settings. Through the power of people, Robin Hood Army has scaled to reach more than 400 cities in 13 countries. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Neel about what inspired him to begin the Robin Hood Army, how he and his colleagues have maintained the mission of the organization as it grows to include millions of Robins around the world, and his advice for “thinking less and doing more.”

Neel Ghose: “I generally feel that food builds trust. If you’re serving someone week on week, month on month, year on year, it ceases to be charity and it becomes more about community.”

01:26 Intro on Neel and Robin Hood Army

07:26 Getting outside your comfort zone

14:04 Founding and scaling the Robin Hood Army

19:00 How to be a leader in a decentralized organization

24:38 Codifying culture, managing conflicts and setting aside your ego

29:50 The “why” and “how” behind a zero-funds organization

32:24 Power of partnerships

34:26 Building teams that drive growth and expansion

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

02. A-dae Romero-Briones, First Nations Development Institute Apr 27, 2023

A-dae Romero-Briones is the Director of Programs at the First Nations Development Institute, an organization committed to strengthening tribal assets and helping Native Communities restore and retain their culture. First Nations supports tribes and Native communities as they build sustainable food systems that improve health, strengthen food security and increase their control over Native agriculture and food systems. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with A-dae about the role of community in addressing complex systems change, why the term “food system” is not a monolith, and how food systems can take radically different forms depending on their historical, cultural and societal context.

A-dae Romero-Briones: “When you think of yourself as an individual in a very complex system, it becomes very overwhelming very fast. But if you think of yourself as an individual in the community that has relationships, that has to deal with a complex system it becomes a little easier.”

01:01 Intro to A-dae and First Nations Development Institute

04:09 Comparison of mainstream and Indigenous food systems

10:25 Transferrable learnings from Indigenous food systems

14:36 How Indigenous food sovereignty can reduce food waste

18:17 What sparked A-dae’s passion for food system change

22:49 The role of a change leader vs. first follower

24:34 How to consider and address systems change

31:15 A-dae’s vision for the future

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

01. Dana Gunders, ReFED Apr 27, 2023

Dana Gunders is the Executive Director of ReFED, a national nonprofit that advances data-driven solutions to help train, inspire, and strategize around food waste reduction. By taking a holistic view of the food system, and focused, purposeful action, ReFED is working to achieve a 50% food waste reduction in accordance with the United Nations’ 2030 Sustainable Development Goals. On this episode of “Food Lab Talk,” Michiel speaks with Dana about why tackling food waste requires a full-supply-chain view, what Dana views as the biggest barriers and opportunities, and how solving for waste will impact our global food system.

Dana Gunders: “It is just the dumbest problem out there and one that is so solvable. I think we look at climate change and it feels so big and daunting, but wasting food is not. Wasting less food is not rocket science, right? It’s something we all can do, we have control over and it feels very much within our reach and I think that helps keep me motivated.”

01:01 Intro on Dana and the food waste problem

03:34 Background on ReFED

07:55 Long-term progress on food waste reduction

09:32 How to stay motivated to fight food waste

12:08 Tools and potential solutions to stop food waste

15:55 Barriers to scaling progress

17:51 Opportunities for reducing waste across different food groups

00:21 Tracking, measurement and metrics

23:42 Motivating individuals and organizations to act

26:41 Addressing skeptics by sharing individual impact

28:14 What’s on the horizon?

Links

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.

What is Food Lab Talk? Apr 27, 2023

A better food system starts with one thing: vision. Food Lab Talk gives global food system changemakers a platform to articulate their vision for the future of food. The series features interviews with inspiring individuals who are working on the frontlines of many of our most pressing food issues: reducing food loss and waste, enhancing food system transparency, facilitating shifts toward more balanced plant-forward diets, enabling informed individual choices for sustainable lifestyles, and accelerating the transition to a circular food economy.

Join Google’s Michiel Bakker to meet the leaders taking bold action and answering what each of us can do to create a better food system for us all.

Links

Learn more about Google’s Food Shots

Subscribe, rate, review the show at foodlabtalk.com

Thank you to the guests featured in this episode (in order of appearance):

A-dae Romero Briones, Director of Programs at First Nations Development Institute
Matt Rogers, Founder & CEO at Mill
Dana Gunders, Executive Director at ReFED
Neel Ghose, Founder at Robin Hood Army
Amy Keister, Global Director of Sustainability at Compass Group

*The views expressed by the guests in this podcast don't necessarily represent the host’s views, nor those of his employer.