Flying Free

Latest Episodes:

A Closer Look at Spiritual Abuse: Interview with Dan Koch [283] Jul 09, 2024

Show notes

Joining me for today’s fascinating episode is Dan Koch, podcaster and spiritual abuse researcher. Dan has created an incredible tool called the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, and he breaks it down for us as we talk about spiritual abuse and the heavy impact it has on people’s lives.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Check out Dan’s Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale. Also mentioned in today’s podcast episode was Dr. Keller’s Spiritual Abuse Questionnaire.
Connect with Dan on his website as well as Instagram.
Listen to Dan’s podcast, You Have Permission, and especially Episodes 10 and 123.
Grab your copy of one of my favorite books, Faith Beyond Doubt.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Dan Koch is a licensed therapist in the state of Washington, the host of the You Have Permission Podcast and a spiritual abuse researcher who has developed the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, currently in use by religious trauma clinicians around the world.

Emotional and Spiritual Abuse Survivor Q&A [282] Jul 02, 2024

Show notes

Sometimes a woman will say, “I decided to leave, but now my abuser is being so nice to me! What should I do?”

Unless an abuser has found a new source of supply, the abuser will want to maintain control over you. He’s been observing what makes you tick for a long time. He's been observing what works and doesn’t work to emotionally manipulate you. He knows how to both push all your buttons AND pull on your heartstrings.

One of the ways he knows he can pull on a nice girl's strings is to simply make a show of being nice to her, and then the victim thinks, “Oh, let's give him another chance. He's trying so hard, poor hapless man. I must be the wind beneath his wings.”

We've been programmed to believe these kinds of things. A man can be chronically abusive, but when he’s nice, we think that just negates everything else he has done, but our body knows it’s not true. Our brain has been programmed to believe that if he is nice or says “I’m sorry,” that means he has repented, and we just need to take him back, suck it up, and sweep everything under the rug. But that's not what true repentance or forgiveness is.

This is taken from today’s episode in which I share part of a live emotional abuse Q&A I recently did for my email subscribers. These are people who have requested help and resources from me over the years. Sometimes I create free workshops or special events for everyone on that list. (If you don’t want to miss any articles or events or resources I create for you, be sure to get on that list by going to my website, flyingfreenow.com, and signing up at the top of the page!)

Here are some of the questions I answered in today’s episode:

Should I tell my adult children and close friends about the hidden emotional abuse I’m experiencing?
I feel guilty because we’re in the middle of the divorce process, but all of a sudden, my husband has started being nicer than he’s ever been!
Why am I so afraid to tell my husband that I am done with the marriage?
How do I avoid being triggered in a situation where my needs are being ignored or misunderstood?
Is my husband abusive, or just selfish and immature?
And MORE!

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Books I recommended in today’s episode: Forgiveness After Trauma, The Body Keeps the Score, The Tools, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom's Battle, andA Failure of Nerve.
I also mentioned my interview with the author of Forgiveness After Trauma, Susannah Griffith, my article called “How to Leave an Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 10 Steps,” and another podcast episode, Episode 280, “Projective Identification in Abusive Relationships.”
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Forgiveness After Trauma [281] Jun 25, 2024

Show notes

“In this book, I want to share parts of my journey paired with reflections based on my background as a biblical scholar to make available forgiveness paths different from the harmful ones so often proffered in the name of God.”

Susannah Griffith’s book, Forgiveness After Trauma, does exactly that, and it is now my absolute favorite book on forgiveness. In today’s episode, Susannah and I sit down and talk about how we can look at forgiveness in a more healing way than we are accustomed to.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

If you read any book about forgiveness, let it be Susannah’s: Forgiveness after Trauma: A Path to Find Healing and Empowerment. She also has another book called Leaving Silence: Sexualized Violence, the Bible, and Standing with Survivors.
Connect with Susannah on her website and Instagram.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Susannah is an independent scholar, writer, chaplain, and advocate. Her first book, Leaving Silence, was a finalist for a Christianity Today Book of the Year award. Susannah resides in Northern Indiana with her husband Michael and three young daughters.

Projective Identification in Abusive Relationships [280] Jun 18, 2024

Show notes

Abusers will project their own inner identity and issues onto their victims. Let’s talk about what that means, how it impacts a survivor, and what you can do about it.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

The YouTube video that inspired this episode, “Projective Identification Explained.”
The book by Tina Swithin I mentioned, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom’s Battle.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Her Rites: Women's Sacred Journey [279] Jun 11, 2024

Show notes

Dr. Christy Bauman has written yet another beautifully rich book, and in today’s episode, you will get a sneak peek! Her Rites: A Sacred Journey for the Mind, Body, and Soultakes you on a journey through each of a woman’s six rites of passage and empowers women through words, art, and music.

In today’s episode, we discuss

What does birthright mean for Christian women?
What is God’s legacy through women?
How does the rite of exile impact female survivors?
How does the rite of intuition empower women who have been abused?
And so much more!

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Get your copy of Her Rites: A Sacred Journey for the Mind, Body, and Soul, as well as Christy’s other books, The Sexually Healthy Woman, Theology of the Womb, and A Brave Lament.
Find Christy on her website.
Listen to the corresponding music for Her Rites.
Connect with Christy on Instagram on her main page and her Womaneering page.
If you loved this episode, you’ll love Episode 45 of the Flying Free Podcast which is also with Christy!
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Dr. Christy Bauman, MDFT & LMHC (she/her) is committed to helping women come into their true voice. She is an author and psychotherapist who focuses on the female body, sexuality, and theology. Christy’s work can be found at christybauman.com

What I'm Reading, Listening to, and Thinking About [278] Jun 04, 2024

Show notes

I have been learning and reading and going to conferences and doing ALL the things recently, and I want to tell you all about it! This episode is a fun one where I let you in on what I’ve been up to and share a few golden nuggets I’ve found along the way.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Book I’ve been reading recently: After by Dr. Bruce Greyson, It’s Not You by Dr. Ramani, and Still Life by Penny Louise.
Check out my new favorite podcast, The BEMA Podcast.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. I also made a playlist for this book on Spotify!
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

What the Healing Journey Looks Like [277] May 28, 2024

Show notes

We talk about the abuse so much, we sometimes forget about the actual healing process. That’s why I’ve invited my long-time friend and seasoned guest Bob Hamp back on the Flying Free Podcast. Bob knows how painful and necessary the healing journey is, and he has some incredible golden nuggets of wisdom to share today that you do not want to miss.

Some key points include

How Bob found himself in the advocate world and his backstory
Why trying to find resources for your abuser really isn’t helpful
How our bodies were designed to help protect us
What the word “introject” means and how it relates to you
A parable about a hiker that will help you with your healing
How your childhood dreams can help you heal

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Connect with Bob on Facebook and Twitter.
Check out Bob’s incredible “Think Differently” book series.
Experience Bob’s new Sunday morning spiritual growth community, The Living Room, by becoming a Think Differently Academy member.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Bob Hamp is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as well as an author and teacher. His life message has always been about freedom and healing. He and his wife, Polly, are the founders of Think Differently Academy, an online community for training, personal growth and healing. He and Polly have six kids and six grandkids with one more on the way.

Teaching Children the CBT Model Tool [276] May 21, 2024

Show notes

Today I’m going to teach you how to use the same CBT triangle tool I use with the women I work with, my kids, and even myself to help us all understand and gain self-awareness around our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.

This CBT tool has three parts that can assist you in changing the way you think, and as a result, change your life and the lives of your kids.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Previous episodes where I talk about this tool: Episode 160, Episode 105, and Episode 107.
Previous episodes where I talk about sex: Episode 104, Episode 108, Episode 170, Episode 221, and Episode 230.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Is Your Church Safe? [275] May 14, 2024

Show notes

Ryan George grew up with a father who abused him, a church that hurt him, and a heart that needed healing. Even after learning he wasn’t the only one being abused at the hands of his father, Ryan still found healing he desperately needed, and he’s on a mission to help others heal, tell their story, and live life to the fullest.

Together, Ryan and I talk about

Ryan’s story growing up in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches
How Ryan found out about more of his father’s victims outside of their family
Why Ryan’s book was written to shine a light on problematic theological issues in the church in order to prevent more victims from being hurt
How finding a healthy church changed Ryan’s life and beliefs
What you should look for when searching for a healthy church
And more!

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

Grab your copy of Ryan’s newest book, Hurt and Healed by the Church, as well as his first book, Scared to Life.
Check out Ryan’s blog, Explorience.
Connect with Ryan on Instagram and Facebook.
My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.

Ryan George is the author of Hurt and Healed by the Church, and Scared to Life. He’s the blogger behind Explorience.org. He co-founded and co-leads Dude Group, a spiritual adventure community in the Blue Ridge Mountains where he lives with his wife, Crystal, and daughter, Deonnie.

The One About Bill [274] May 07, 2024

Show notes

BILL! My friend, Bill, wrote a little comment on my site that I wanted to share with you all. It wasn’t a nice comment, but honestly, that’s what makes this episode fun! Let’s take a look at what our little gaslighting friend said and examine more closely where he got it wrong.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming.
Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.
Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay well in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you!

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