Show notes
Full TranscriptDrew Slocum: (00:09):This is episode 8 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today, my guest is Sean Mullen. Sean is the president and Chief Energy Officer of ProTech Central. We get into the Chief Energy Officer right off the bat, but Sean was a great guest. He's been an integral part of NFPA seven 70. NFPA 70 70 is the new Water Mist hybrid, uh, technology that is coming about the new standards, uh, being introduced, uh, later this year. So, pretty topical with N F P A coming up, uh, next week in San Antonio. Speaking of that N F P A in San Antonio this year. And Spec Point will be there with a booth. Uh, I'll also be recording a live podcast as well from N F P A. So feel free to stop by our booth. And, um, yeah, please enjoy the podcast with Sean Mullen.Drew Slocum: (01:05):Wanna welcome in, uh, Sean Mullens. Uh, what is, what is your actual title at, at, uh, at pci?Shawn Mullen: (01:14):My actual title is President and Chief Energy Officer. And, um, the only reason that I chose Chief Energy Officer was because, um, I felt that, um, and unless I designated myself as the engine, uh, president and chief, you know, executive officer was, I don't know, boring it, it didn't say anything. And I can tell you that when I hand out my business cards, uh, people look at that and they say, well, what does that mean? Right? So it, it's an instant opportunity to start a conversation. So there's a, there's a little bit of, uh, of, uh, other, other marketing intent along with that as well. But, um, I like it and it reminds me what I need to do every day to lead the company forward.Drew Slocum: (02:05):No, that's great. I, I figured it had something to do with that. And, uh, you know, again, it, it gets a conversation stirred, you know, when you first meet somebody. Yeah. So it really does. Yeah. So I kind of we're kicking that off right away. So, uh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Sean, for being on the podcast. This is, uh, it's a new avenue for us, you know, from Inspect Point, but also just, I wanna get more knowledge out there from fire protection. Um, usually, you know, you have to go to a trade show or be a part of a specific webinar to really learn about, you know, different types of fire protection out there and, and different aspects, how to run, run your businesses better. So, um, you reached out to me pretty early on, probably a couple months ago, a month ago, um, you know, very interested in, in, uh, coming on the podcasts.(02:56)I did a, I did a little research behind you, uh, with the F S S A, all my, all my buddies over there. So they, they gave Sure, they gave a big thumbs up to you. So let's, uh, oh, . Thank you. Yeah, no, it's, it's good. Um, so, uh, yeah, today I wanted to, I kind of wanted to gear this around. Uh, and this is coming from you a little bit. The, uh, you know, the clean agent, or not clean agent, I guess, I guess special hazards, uh, more involved, I guess, uh, or more specifically, the hybrid missed applications and, uh, really the new N F P A, uh, code that came out, N f nfpa, what is it, seven 70, I believe, right?Shawn Mullen: (03:40):Right. Yeah. So the, the technology is, um, really an interesting one in that it essentially fuses, um, two different media water mist at less than a hundred micro micron droplet size and, uh, an inert agent. And it fuses these two, uh, existing extinguishing media into a single hybrid media, which essentially suppresses and extinguishes the fire from, uh, two different elements of the old fire triangle, of course, with the, with the water miss, because of the increased surface area created, uh, by all those little water droplets we're clearly, uh, addressing the heat side of the fire triangle,Drew Slocum: (04:32):Right?Shawn Mullen: (04:32):Yep. And then with the inner agent, we are also addressing the oxygen, uh, level or the oxygen availability, um, uh, to the fire. And so we're really knocking, knocking that fire down, suppressing and ex and extinguishing from two different sides of that. It is a technology that's been around for several years. Um, there are, uh, domestically, there are, uh, two, uh, manufacturers, uh, Ansel makes the Aquas so Yep. Product. Yep. And Victaulic, uh, makes their vortex, uh, hybrid fire extinguishing system. So these two manufacturers ha, have been promoting, um, this technology. And as they approached the N F P A, um, they said, Hey, we don't think this really falls into the water mist N FPA seven 50, uh, guidelines, because we are actively using inert agent as a mechanism of suppression, right? And they said, we also, we don't think we fit into the NFPA a 2001, uh, area of clean agent suppression systems because we're using Mist, uh, you know, again, as an active element of the suppression.(06:01)And so, uh, the first time, uh, they went up to N F P A, um, the, the, um, powers that be there said, well, that's not there, there doesn't seem to be enough interest. We think that N F P A seven 50 is sufficient. And, uh, much like the, uh, dejected crew going before the Wizard of Oz, they said, you know, come back later, bring us the, the broom of the wicked witch of the West to these manufacturers. So they, they regrouped, uh, got involved in, uh, trade association, and I'll make a shameless plug for the Fire Suppression Systems Association. Yeah. Yep. And, um, began to get involved, uh, built up more of a rapport and an understanding of where this technology can be used. And here, uh, several years ago, uh, 2015 or so, they came back to N F P A and again, solicited, um, a, a a request to create a separate standard.(07:02)And they had more support from the industry end users, um, distributors, uh, installers like our company, PROTEX Central. And, uh, that time around the, uh, N F P A, uh, powers that be said, yes, we, we think that now this has traction. We think this has viability. And so, uh, the standards Council of N F P A, uh, created the N F P A seven 70 standard on hybrid fire extinguishing systems. And, um, I submitted my name as a representative of the Fire Suppression Systems Association to sit on that new, new standards committee. Right. And, uh, and part of a group of about 15, 16 individuals from all different stakeholder elements, from professional engineers to subject matter experts, to the manufacturers to, uh, end users, um, authorities having jurisdiction, uh, military, uh, and in installer, uh, installer distributors. So it is a, uh, well represented cross, unlike other n FPA committees. And to me, uh, having never sat on a, uh, national Standard Standard making council or a committee or a, or a code committee, uh, it was a new experience. I had been involved with state regulations and state, uh, licensing issues and things of that nature, but never on a national basis where you have Sure. A much wider, much more divergent, uh, set of views, uh, on on the technology Yeah. On the industry and the applications. So, um, yeah. So we started in, uh, working on the, the standard way back in 2016. So,Drew Slocum: (08:57):Uh, let me, let me stop you real quick. Uh, back to that, and I, I kind of wanted to highlight that, you know, hybrid mist is, is great. I was involved with it, um, when I was in my Tyco days with aquas and Aqua Mist two different, right. You know, one's high hybrid one's not. But, um, you know, just from the N F P A side, it sounds like they, you know, N F P A does a great job in, in, in bringing a lot of different viewpoints into these different standards and, and, and code committees, uh, whatever you wanna call it. Uh, w what, I guess what is, what has been your experience and, you know, are there, are there any pros and cons to, to, to bringing those together? I know N F P A does take a while to, to push anything through. I remember, I remember talking about seven 70, almost 10 years ago now, or at least the hybrid mist, not seven 70 specifically, so, right. Yeah. What's your, what was your experience with that? Just that whole process, and maybe explain to that, to the, to listenership.Shawn Mullen: (10:00):Sure. And, and I think, I think that's a good, it's a good thing to focus on. Um, it's much, it's much like, uh, laws and sausages. It's not a, um, it's not the fastest means to promulgating consensus standards and codes. And I think, you know, quite honestly, that, I think that's a good thing. Um, it, you know, much like you, um, I'm sure that you're much like, uh, everybody else in the industry, kind of a belt and suspenders kind of guy. I mean, if you're in the fire business, uh, you gotta make sure it's right and it's gonna work when it needs to. So, speeding through any type of standard development code development probably is not a, is probably not a good thing. And the way that N F P A has set up these stakeholders within the, the committee structure and the deliberative nature that occurs, um, you've got to work through and find consensus.(11:00)And so when you have these different voices at the table, you are not going to be all yes men. And, uh, not every idea is going to be met with uniformity. And when you have, uh, subject matter experts, you have professional engineers, you have end users, um, there are any number of viewpoints on any particular subject. And I would tell you that in our particular case of N FPA seven 70, um, we just had a heck of a time just getting our, our minds around defining what this hybrid media, uh, really is. Um, because it, it, it exists in two different elements and then it comes together. Um, and so we struggled long time to refine work on, uh, you know, put up trial balloons of definitions of what hybrid media, uh, really is. And so, um, once we finally got worked through that, where everybody was comfortable, uh, the rest of it started to fall in line pretty quickly.(12:13)Um, but when you have engineers who have a great depth of experience with, uh, you know, traditional, uh, fire sprinkler systems, clean agent systems, right? Uh, those types of things, you know, they, they have, they, they want specificity a as everybody else, but you grapple with the technology to understand how can we best define this, and at the same time, not play favorites. Uh, N F P A is, is very sensitive to giving any type of commercial nod intentionally or otherwise to any one particular manufacturer's type of, of solution. So, right. You have to kind of dance around that a little bit at the same time as well.Drew Slocum: (12:57):Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you know, NFPAs, you know, non, they have to be pretty vanilla when it comes to that, which is, which is good. That's what they need, that's what they need to do. So, that's right. Yeah. Um, I guess back to the hybrid mist, you know, I, I was involved in a lot of water mist in that technology, you know, 10 years ago before right. When Vortex really came out. Um, what are the, what are the best applications from a con from your perspective, a contractor's perspective? Sure. Cause you know, you have all the different tools out there to put out a fire, to put out a, you know, uh, to put a suppression system, a sprinkler system, alarm system in place. What are the best applications for that, that hybrid water mist and how it's being pushed at N F fpa?Shawn Mullen: (13:44):Sure. Um, well, the technology has been, uh, deployed in, in, uh, applications where you would have normally thought, well, that's a good clean agent type application. That might be a good water mis application. That might be a good CO2 application. And so, um, it, it has had, uh, different applications, but a, as a practical matter, we see a lot of, um, industrial applications where, for example, um, CO2 may have been more widely used and prescribed in the past, but because of the nature of CO2 and the exposure, uh, elements that come into play when you have personnel in correct in, in there, um, these types of hybrid systems have a legitimate and, uh, well, uh, well documented and success in those applications where low pressure co2 or high pressure CO2 may have been used. Uh, so you're looking at enclosures, uh, you know, flammable liquid storage areas, um, you know, power gen, uh, those types of things.(14:59)Yeah. And, and also in, in industry as well, um, any type of, of area that, uh, could have had clean agent, uh, might be a candidate as well. Because when you're looking at these hybrid agents, uh, the inner element of them, uh, at least in the vortex, uh, equation, uses an nitrogen. Right. And so the requirements for sealing of the hazard are not as rigorous as they would be if you were using a traditional, uh, you know, hydrocarbon type clean agent. Right. And so we have had applications in, in our experience, uh, of, of using the hybrid systems when the cost of a, uh, clean agent system gets, gets a little pricey because, not of the system itself, but because of the modifications that have to be made to the hazard, uh, construction wise in order to seal it up Yeah.Drew Slocum: (16:00):Vent or even venting from the, from the inert side where you have to vent, you know, pressure venting, you'reShawn Mullen: (16:06):E Exactly. Right. Uh, and so again, um, having the availability, having the tool of the hybrid systems, uh, gives owners, end users, AHJs engineers, um, another option to consider. Right? And the other, uh, attractive element, um, is that when you're using water and nitrogen, uh, your, your cost of recharge is a fairly low impact, right? It's not going to be sticker shock as you might have with an unexpected discharge of the clean agent system.Drew Slocum: (16:39):Sure, sure. Yeah, it was interesting. Uh, you know, we brought up Bermuda before, um, when we originally, when we started off the podcast, and, uh, when I was down there, uh, you know, vict gave a presentation on Vortex. But, you know, because of the, first of all, the recharge, uh, cost and just availability of a, a clean agent or whatever, uh, everything's pushing towards Vortex, but on top of that, they have a big water issue because it's an island without a lot of, um, you know, natural springs or natural water. So, uh, you know, that that mist style, whether it's regular mist or hybrid mist is, is a lot more powerful down there because they don't have the water supply. So,Shawn Mullen: (17:26):Uh, and it's, it's been huge. It's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that you should mention that because we have had applications here in the Midwest where water pressure is not sufficient, uh, for protection of a particular area. And, um, so rather than, you know, bringing in, you know, six eight inch water mains and having to put in a fire pump, uh, we, we've been able to go in and provide the hybrid system with its own, you know, uh, water supply, its own nitrogen supply, and, uh, boom, we've got, uh, reliable, accurate fire protection, which I'm happy to say has actually put out a couple of fires, uh, really in some, yeah. In some engine test cells, uh, wow. Where the water pressure in the, in the city was too low to meet the demands for sprinkler. Um, and, uh, we, we were able to move forward with a hybrid system and, uh, put it in, and I bet it was in, in place for maybe, uh, three or four months, and one of the zones popped off and put out a fire in an engine test cell.(18:32)So, um, the, the systems do work, uh, when installed design maintained, uh, correctly. And, uh, you know, the, the obviously end user is very happy. The fire department's very happy, um, and, you know, they're back up in business and, uh, running with it. So, um, it does have its place. It's not for every possible application. Sure. And,…
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