fiction/non/fiction

Latest Episodes:

S8 Ep 52: Caleb Gayle on Black Settlers in the American West Sep 25, 2025

Show notes

Journalist Caleb Gayle joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State, which recounts the efforts of Edward McCabe, a Black settler who became a prominent politician in the late 1800s and spearheaded a mission to establish a majority-Black state in the American West. Gayle sets the scene of McCabe’s upbringing as a free Black man on the East Coast and his move across the country to majority-Black towns in Kansas and Oklahoma. Gayle also talks about how Black settlers navigated the challenges of the supposed promised land, including bleak weather and the machinations of white politicians. Despite great difficulties, Gayle explains, McCabe persisted, and while his dreamed-of state never came to fruition, his legacy is visible in some Western towns even today. Gayle reads from Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account, the Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel, and our show website: https://www.fnfpodcast.net/

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Caleb Gayle

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S8 Ep. 51: Omar El Akkad on Gaza and Western Empire Sep 18, 2025

Show notes

Writer Omar El Akkad joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his recent nonfiction book, One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, which was just nominated for the National Book Award in nonfiction. El Akkad talks about developing the arc of the book, which addresses how Israel’s genocide in Gaza led to his “breaking away from the notion that the polite, Western liberal ever stod for anything at all.” He explains how he conceptualized the West as a young man moving from Egypt to Qatar to Canada and finally the U.S. He also talks about how he can no longer vote for Democrats simply because they are “the lesser evil.” He reflects on how to talk to children about naming and understanding the world as it really is. El Akkad reads from One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Omar El Akkad

Others:

Suzanne Nossel, PEN America Leader, to Leave Embattled Organization - The New York Times(October 31, 2024)
A Campus for All | Faculty & Academic Affairs (University of Minnesota)

Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Loses Univ. of Minnesota Job Offer for Saying Israel Is Committing Genocide | Democracy Now! (June 18, 2024)

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S8 Ep. 50: Jessica Francis Kane on Penelope Fitzgerald in Mexico Sep 11, 2025

Show notes

Novelist Jessica Francis Kane joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her new novel Fonseca, which fictionalizes writer Penelope Fitzgerald’s 1952 trip to Mexico. Kane talks about imagining Fitzgerald in her mid-thirties, before she had become a novelist, when she was living a financially precarious life and editing a journal with her husband Desmond. Kane reflects on Fitzgerald’s decision to travel to Mexico with her son Valpy, a prospective heir for sisters there who are distantly connected to their family. Kane explains how she came to correspond with Fitzgerald’s children and the choice to use those letters as part of the book; her belief that the trip had a formative effect on Fitzgerald; “following the plot” based on the available facts; and introducing historical speculation, like an acquaintance with painter Edward Hopper, into the storyline. Kane reads from Fonseca.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Jessica Francis Kane

Penelope Fitzgerald:

Others:

Penelope Fitzgerald: A Life by Hermione Lee

"The Peripatetic Penelope Fitzgerald" | Lucy Scholes | Granta

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S8 Ep. 49: Patrick Ryan on ‘The Good Heart’ of Buckeye Sep 04, 2025

Show notes

Fiction writer and editor Patrick Ryan joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his debut novel, Buckeye, which traces two generations of two Midwestern families connected by a secret. Ryan recalls the coincidental conversation that informed his portrayal of one character’s experiences with disability in World War II-era Ohio, and reflects on taking Ann Patchett’s advice to keep the point of view very close when depicting experiences one hasn’t personally had. He explains how a spiritualist character became “the good heart of the book,” as well as his favorite fiction writing experience of all time. He also talks about troubling two fictional marriages and leaving his characters few paths through their woes. Ryan reads from Buckeye.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Patrick Ryan

Others:

Bel Canto by Ann Patchett
The Gilded Age

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S8 Ep. 48: Jennifer Szalai and Alexandra Jacobs on Great American Road Trip Books Aug 28, 2025

Show notes

New York Times book critics Jennifer Szalai and Alexandra Jacobs join co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss their recent article, “Love Jack Kerouac? Read These Great American Road Trip Books Next,” which they co-authored with their fellow critic Dwight Garner, and which includes books published after Kerouac's On the Road. They talk about road trips as escapism, claustrophobia, exploration, and nostalgia, and reflect on their picks, including Hilma Wolitzer’s 1980 novel Hearts, Gypsy Rose Lee’s 1957 eponymous memoir, Michael Paterniti’s 2000 non-fiction book Driving Mr. Albert, and Jesmyn Ward’s 2017 novel Sing, Unburied, Sing. Szalai and Jacobs talk about developing an expansive conception of what qualifies as a road trip book, leaving Lolita out, and favorite road trip music and games. They read from the article.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Jennifer Szalaiand Alexandra Jacobs

"Love Jack Kerouac? Read These Great American Road Trip Books Next." by Dwight Garner, Alexandra Jacobs, and Jennifer Szalai - The New York Times

Others:

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S8 Ep. 47: Nicholas Boggs on James Baldwin’s Love Stories Aug 26, 2025

Show notes

Biographer Nicholas Boggs joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his groundbreaking new book, Baldwin: A Love Story, the first major biography of James Baldwin to be published in three decades. Boggs recalls how finding Baldwin’s only children’s book in a Yale library as a college student led him to track down the volume’s illustrator, the French artist Yoran Cazac, Baldwin’s last great love. He talks about interviewing people who had never previously spoken about their relationships with the iconic author, including Cazac, whom at least one previous biographer had wrongly guessed was deceased. Boggs reflects on the importance of considering Blackness, queerness, and chosen family as central to Baldwin’s life and art. He discusses Baldwin’s youth in Harlem, his years in Europe and Istanbul, and his relationships with the painters Beauford Delaney and Lucien Happersberger, the actor Engin Cezzar, and Cazac, as well as many others. Boggs considers how Baldwin’s deepest friendships and romances influenced his life and work, including Another Country, Go Tell It on the Mountain, Notes of a Native Son, and Giovanni’s Room. He reads from the book.

To hear the full episode, subscribe through iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app (include the forward slashes when searching). You can also listen by streaming from the player below. Check out video versions of our interviews on the ⁠Fiction/Non/Fiction Instagram account⁠, the ⁠Fiction/Non/Fiction YouTube Channel⁠, and our show website: ⁠https://www.fnfpodcast.net/⁠

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

⁠Nicholas Boggs⁠

⁠James Baldwin⁠

Others:

⁠James Baldwin′s Turkish Decade by Magdalena J. Zaborowska⁠

⁠James Baldwin: A Biography by David Leeming

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S8 Ep. 46: Will Bardenwerper on Baseball’s Betrayal of Its Minor League Roots Aug 14, 2025

Show notes

Journalist Will Bardenwerper joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new book, Homestand: Small Town Baseball and the Fight for the Soul of America, which explores the consequences of Major League Baseball cutting 40 affiliated minor league teams, each one only as expensive as an average Major League salary. He explains how the accessibility and affordability of minor league baseball has made it a unique gathering point for working-class communities like the one in Batavia, New York, where Bardenwerper followed the local team, the Muckdogs, for a season. He celebrates the traditions and resilience of the Muckdogs fans and owners, who revived the team after it was eliminated as a minor league franchise. He also reads from Homestand.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, and Moss Terrell.

Will Bardenwerper

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S8 Ep. 45: Barbara Kingsolver on Supporting Appalachian Women Recovering from Addiction Aug 07, 2025

Show notes

Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Barbara Kingsolver joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss her support of Higher Ground, a long-term residence for women recovering from addiction. Kingsolver talks about Lee County, Virginia, which is both Higher Ground’s location and the setting for her wildly successful novel Demon Copperhead, which transforms Charles Dickens’ David Copperfield into a story of the opioid epidemic in Appalachia. Kingsolver explains how she came to use profits from the novel to found Higher Ground, as well as the local partnerships and conversations that made the project possible. She also reflects on Purdue Pharma’s exploitation of Appalachia; her views on ethical philanthropy; her worries about what the Big, Beautiful Bill will do to rural America; and her opinions on Vice President J.D. Vance’s authenticity. She considers how she developed the voices of her novel’s characters, and reads from Demon Copperhead.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Hunter Murray, Janet Reed, and Moss Terrell.

Barbara Kingsolver

Others:

Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance

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S8 Ep. 44: Vanity Fair’s Dan Adler on Jeffrey Epstein and What Ghislaine Maxwell Knows Jul 31, 2025

Show notes

Vanity Fair journalist Dan Adler joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his coverage of Ghislaine Maxwell, who was convicted in 2021 of facilitating Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse of minors. Adler explains how Maxwell, who is currently serving a 20-year sentence and was just interviewed by the Department of Justice, has recently emerged as a key figure in unlocking the puzzle of Epstein’s broader network. He recalls covering Maxwell’s trial in 2021 and analyzes her social circle, British background, and supporters, as well as the timeline and nature of her involvement with Epstein. He talks about her creation of a book celebrating Epstein’s birthday, a volume that reportedly includes a suggestive note from President Trump. He also reflects on Trump’s base’s intensifying interest in the rumored existence of the “Epstein files.” Adler reads from his recent Vanity Fair article, “How Ghislaine Maxwell Is Riding the New Jeffrey Epstein Wave.”

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Hunter Murray, Janet Reed, and Moss Terrell.

Dan Adler

How Ghislaine Maxwell Is Riding the New Jeffrey Epstein Wave | Vanity Fair

Others:

Trump’s Name Is on Contributor List for Epstein Birthday Book - The New York Times

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S8 Ep. 43: Gary Shteyngart on Vera, or Faith and American Authoritarians Jul 24, 2025

Show notes

Acclaimed novelist Gary Shteyngart joins co-hosts Whitney Terrell and V.V. Ganeshananthan to discuss his new novel, Vera, or Faith, which explores American identity, politics, and immigrant experiences in the near future through the eyes of the eponymous 10-year-old protagonist. Shteyngart talks about the novel’s speculative “Five-Three” amendment, a proposal to give those who can trace their ancestry back to the American Revolution five-thirds of a vote, as long as their ancestors “were exceptional enough not to arrive in chains.” He reflects on how this echoes current rhetoric surrounding nationalism and exclusion. Shteyngart unpacks a scene in his novel featuring a “March of the Hated,” in which the Five-Three amendment, like the Trump administration, attracts both the privileged and those who will suffer under the policy. Shteyngart and the hosts examine the role of elite education, AI, and childhood in shaping Vera’s understanding of the world. He reads from Vera, or Faith.

This podcast is produced by V.V. Ganeshananthan, Whitney Terrell, Hunter Murray, Janet Reed, and Moss Terrell.

Gary Shteyngart