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    Music

    Drummers on Drumming

    A podcast for drummers who think too much. Ben Hilzinger talks to the greats about creativity, identity, staying sane, and finding purpose behind the kit.
    Powered by Big Fat Snare Drum. For more inforamtion, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram.

    Advertise

    Copyright: © Ben Hilzinger

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    Latest Episodes:
    Rest in Peace Dom Famularo Oct 04, 2023
    Show notes

    This past week, we lost a very important member of the drumming community, Dom Famularo. Known as "Drumming's Global Ambassador" spent the last 30 years traveling the globe preaching the gospel of drumming. An intense performer, Dom remains one of the most respected solo drum artists in the world, with a career built solely upon his unique skills as a drummer, educator, author and motivational speaker.

    Dom was a guest on this show in 2021 and it was, of course, a great chat chalk-full of life lessons. It was back before I asked the guests to pick 5 records that shaped them into the players they are today…instead I provided prompts (which I read aloud) and they answered them accordingly. Dom answers went far beyond drumming…of course 😊

    I learned that Dom’s cancer had retuned back in June when I reached out regarding a little secret project I’m working on. After hearing about his health, the Big Fat Snare Drum team offered to organize a fundraiser to offset some of the costs of his cancer treatment, but in typical selfless fashion, Dom kindly insisted we raise awareness for his non-profit Can-Do Musos … an organization for disabled musicians. You can find out more about this non-profit at candomusos.com; you can donate directly on the website.

    I’ve learned a lot from Dom, far beyond the parameters of this conversation you’re about to hear, and so if you enjoy this podcast, Dom has indirectly impacted your life too. I have donated myself, and, if you have the ability, I encourage you to check it out.

    I have updated this chat a bit and, of course wanted to shoot it to the top of my feed not only to celebrate Dom’s life, but to promote his non-profit work and re-air an episode that will certainly leave you smiling and a better person. Rest in Peace Dom. I can’t wait to chat with you again on the other side.

    Also please visit WhyHunger.org

    https://youtu.be/4zio72R2Nmw?si=CAiCNoBbQSt8ZMiR

    Thank you for everything Dom and I hope you rest in peace. Cheers.

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.

    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Jimmy Chamberlin's (The Smashing Pumpkins, Jimmy Chamberlin Complex) Top 5 Influential Records Sep 27, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is THE Jimmy Chamberlin. He is a singular player that blends jazz/rock/prog and I was SO curious as to what his top 5 would be; and he did not disappoint. He is, of course, most known for his time with Smashing Pumpkins, but he's also formed his own group, Jimmy Chamberlin Complex, in addition to a supergroup with Pumpkins lead singer Billy Corgan called Zwan. He's performed and recorded with Skysaw, Frank Catalano, and many more…and so…without further ado, I hope you enjoy the five records that helped shape Jimmy Chamberlin into the drummer he is today. Cheers!

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    JIMMY'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Tony Williams Lifetime - Believe it

    Artist - Tony Williams

    Release Year - 1975

    Key Track(s) - Fred / Proto-Cosmos

    Drummer - Tony Williams

    -

    Album - Blow by Blow

    Artist - Jeff Beck

    Release Year - 1975

    Key Track(s) - Air Blower / Scatterbrain

    Drummer - Richard Bailey

    -

    Album - Captain Beyond

    Artist - Captain Beyond

    Release Year - 1972

    Key Track(s) - Dancing Madly Backwards

    Drummer - Bobby Caldwell

    -

    Album - Unorthodox Behaviour

    Artist - Brand X

    Release Year - 1976

    Key Track(s) - Euthanasia Waltz / Smacks / Euphoric Hysteria

    Drummer - Phil Collins

    -

    Album - Low Spark of High Heeled Boys

    Artist - Traffic

    Release Year - 1971

    Key Track(s) - Low Spark of High Heeled Boys

    Drummer - Jim Gordon


    Honorable Mentions:

    Real McCoy/McCoy Tyner

    Empyrean Isles/Herbie Hancock

    Wired/Jeff Beck

    Gist of the Gemini/Gino Vanelli

    Now he sings, Now he sobs/Chick Corea

    Bill Evans/Any

    Roxy and Elsewhere/Zappa

    Pat Metheny Trio/99-00

    Story of Neptune/Tony Williams

    Dave Holland/Big Band

    Blue Train/ John Coltrane

    Any Lee Morgan

    Any Art Blakey

    Monk

    Any Roy Haynes

    Hank Jones

    Any Elvin

    Mose Allison

    Weather Report

    Jazz Crusaders

    UK

    Terry Bozzio

    Bill Bruford

    Ian Paice

    Nate Smith

    Nate Wood

    ...so many drummers - I'm inspired by anyone doing their own thing!


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Tommy Igoe's Top 5 Influential Records Sep 20, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Tommy Igoe. Tommy is a world-class musician / producer / author / creator based in San Francisco, CA. He is the top-selling author in his field with four #1 titles on Amazon.com. He began drumming before the age of 2, started classical piano at 10, won every music competition available to him in High School, simultaneously winning two High Percussion awards with the legendary Bridgemen Drumlines.

    In 1997, Tommy wrote the drum set book for Disney’s epic Broadway production of the “The Lion King” where he served as principal drummer and conductor. He has played drums on three Grammy award winning recordings and was voted the World’s #1 Jazz Drummer in the 2014 Modern Drummer Reader’s Poll. He has created two ongoing weekly musical residency at iconic Jazz clubs in New York and San Francisco. His New York band, The Birdland Big Band, is the most popular weekly music event in the city for the last 9 years. His most recent and exciting project is the Tommy Igoe Groove Conspiracy, a 15-piece supergroup from the San Francisco that has quickly become an integral part of the San Francisco cultural landscape.

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    TOMMY'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Apple Juice

    Artist - Tom Scott

    Release Year - 1981

    Key Track(s) - Instant Relief

    Drummer - Steve Gadd

    -

    Album - Buddy Rich Swinging New Band Band

    Artist - Buddy Rich

    Release Year - 1996

    Key Track(s) - West Side Story Medley

    Drummer - Buddy Rich

    -

    Album - Blue Matter

    Artist - John Scofield

    Release Year - 1987

    Key Track(s) - Blue Matter

    Drummer - Dennis Chambers

    -

    Album - Manhattan Burn

    Artist - Paquito D'Rivera

    Release Year - 1987

    Key Track(s) - All The Things You Are

    Drummer - Ignacio Berra

    -

    Album - Live in Concert (in London)

    Artist - Stan Kenton

    Release Year - Recorded in 1972

    Drummer - John Von Ohlen


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Brandon Scott's Top 5 Influential Records Sep 13, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Brandon Scott –– a fabulous drummer, YouTuber and cinematographer. I’ve been following his channel for YEARS and was really excited to finally get him on the show. Brandon’s YouTube channel is an exceptional blend of great playing, education, humor and VFX. In this episode we, of course, discuss the 5 records that helped shape Brandon into the drummer he is today, but we also touch on taking self-inventory of happiness and allowing all your passions to become one big “good life stew”…and where Brandon is at with all of that. Go check out his channel link in the show notes…and enjoy that chat! Alright cheers.

    Check out Brandon’s YouTube Channel HERE

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    BRANDON'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Self Titled

    Artist - Blink-182

    Release Year - 2003

    Key Track(s) - I Miss You

    Drummer - Travis Barker

    -

    Album - Moving Pictures

    Artist - Rush

    Release Year - 1981

    Key Track(s) - Tom Sawyer / YYZ

    Drummer - Neil Peart

    -

    Album - Systematic Chaos

    Artist - Dream Theater

    Release Year - 2007

    Key Track(s) - In The Presence of Enemies / Constant Motion

    Drummer - Mike Portnoy

    -

    Album - Colors

    Artist - Between the Buried and Me

    Release Year - 2007

    Key Track(s) - Prequel to the Sequel / White Walls

    Drummer - Blake Richardson

    -

    Album - We Like It Here

    Artist - Snarky Puppy

    Release Year - 2014

    Key Track(s) - What About Me?

    Drummer - Larnell Lewis


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Joe Lana Jr's (The Cowboy Drummer, Dropout Kings) Top 5 Influential Records Sep 06, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Joe Lana Jr. AKA The Cowboy Drummer. Based Rochester, NY, Joe has created quite the following with his hilarious drum videos coupled with amazing playing. If you don’t know about The Cowboy Drummer, go give him a follow right now. He has been a consistent positive force in my life, and I’m sure he will be for you too. But he’s not just an influencer, he’s a very active touring drummer with his band Dropout Kings, based in Phoenix, Arizona. He’s great. He’s a kind soul and I’m really grateful to have chatted with him. I hope you enjoy the 5 records that shaped Joe Lana into the drummer he is today!

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    JOE'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - The Sickness

    Artist - Disturbed

    Release Year - 2000

    Key Track(s) - Stupify / Droppin Plates / Down With The Sickness

    Drummer - Mike Wengren

    -

    Album - Hybrid theory

    Artist - Linkin Park

    Release Year - 2000

    Key Track(s) - One Step Closer / Crawling / Papercut

    Drummer - Rob Bourdon

    -

    Album - Chocolate Star Fish and The Hotdog Flavored Water

    Artist - Limp Bizkit

    Release Year - 2000

    Key Track(s) - Rollin / My Way / My Generation

    Drummer - John Otto

    -

    Album - Follow the Leader

    Artist - Korn

    Release Year - 1998

    Key Track(s) - Freak on a Leash

    Drummer - David Silveria

    -

    Album - Dookie

    Artist - Green Day

    Release Year - 1994

    Key Track(s) - When I Come Around / Basket Case / Welcome to Paradise

    Drummer - Tre cool


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Elias Mallin's (Filter, Kesha, Noah Cyrus) Top 5 Influential Records Aug 30, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Elias Mallin. Elias is one of my newest favorite people and this chat was fun. He warned me that he’d have a lot of controversial takes and I certainly was not disappointed. Elias is one of THE go-to drummers in LA with a resume that includes Kesha, Filter, Noah Cyrus, Kill Hannah, Hollywood Undead, Julia Michaels, Fear and the Nervous System, and so many more. This chat felt like I was just shooting the sh$t with an old friend and I hope you enjoy the 5 records that helped shaped Elias Mallin into the drummer he is today.

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    ELIAS' BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - …And Justice For All

    Artist - Metallica

    Release Year - 1988

    Key Track(s) - All of them

    Drummer - Lars Ulrich

    -

    Album - aenema

    Artist - Tool

    Release Year - 1996

    Key Track(s) - All of them

    Drummer - Danny Carey

    -

    Album - White Pony

    Artist - The Deftones

    Release Year - 2000

    Key Track(s) - Digital Bath, Passenger

    Drummer - Abe Cunningham

    -

    Album - Live And Loud

    Artist - Ozzy Osbourne

    Release Year - 1993

    Key Track(s) - Shot in the Dark, Crazy Train, Bark at the Moon

    Drummer - Randy Castillo

    -

    Album - Under the Table and Dreaming

    Artist - Dave Mathews Band

    Release Year - 1994

    Key Track(s) - Ants Marching, Satellite

    Drummer - Carter Beauford


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Tim Carman's (GA-20) Top 5 Influential Records Aug 23, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Tim Carman. Tim international touring musician, session drummer, educator, and published author with both Alfred Music and Hudson Music. He’s released 5 books and we talk about all of them at the end of our chat. Tim currently records and tours extensively with GA-20, a three-time Billboard #1 blues trio as well as leading two of his own projects: Tim Carman & The Street 45s—a world-groove inspired funk band—and the Tim Carman Trio—a vintage organ jazz trio. He loves to shuffle and I loved this chat. Big shoutout to Zack from the podcast Working Drummer for connecting Tim and me. This was a fun one with excellent choices and one of my favorite honorable mentions in this shows history. So I hope you enjoy the 5 records that shaped Tim Carmen into the drummer he is today. Cheers!

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    TIM'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - The Colour and the Shape

    Artist - Foo Fighters

    Release Year - 1997

    Key Track(s) - All ("Hey, Johnny Park!")

    Drummer - Dave Grohl

    -

    Album - Cracklin'

    Artist - Roy Haynes with Booker Ervin

    Release Year - 1963

    Key Track(s) - Scoochie

    Drummer - Roy Haynes

    -

    Album - Funkify Your Life: The Meters Anthology

    Artist - The Meters

    Release Year - 1995

    Key Track(s) - Live Wire, Yea You're Right, Pungee, Cissy Strut

    Drummer - Zigaboo Modeliste

    -

    Album - The Capitol Vaults Jazz Series: Big John Patton

    Artist - Big John Patton

    Release Year - 2011

    Key Track(s) - The Silver Meter, Spiffy Diffy, String Bean

    Drummer - Ben Dixon (First two tracks), Clifford Jarvis (String Bean)

    -

    Album - Natural Boogie

    Artist - Hound Dog Taylor

    Release Year - 1974

    Key Track(s) - See Me In the Evening

    Drummer - Ted Harvey


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Johnny Kelly's (Type O Negative, Quiet Riot, Danzig) Top 5 Influential Records Aug 16, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Johnny Kelly. Johnny is mostly known for his tenure as the drummer for Type O Negative, but his full resume includes Quiet Riot, Danzig, Silvertomb, A Pale Horse Named Death, Kill Devil Kill, and his latest endeavor, Eye Am. Johnny is a hell of a hard-hitting player, but his awareness of dynamics and the development of a theme while crafting parts is the reason he’s in the third decade of a very fruitful career. I hope you enjoy the 5 records that shaped Johnny Kelly into the drummer he is today. Cheers

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    JOHNNY'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Physical Graffiti

    Artist - Led Zeppelin

    Release Year - 1975

    Key Track(s) - In My Time of Dying, Kashmir, Ten Years Gone

    Drummer - John Bonham

    -

    Album - Sabotage

    Artist - Black Sabbath

    Release Year - 1975

    Key Track(s) - The Writ, Megalomania

    Drummer - Bill Ward

    -

    Album - BBC Sessions

    Artist - Led Zeppelin

    Release Year - 1997

    Key Track(s) - Since I’ve Been Loving You, Thank You

    Drummer - John Bonham

    -

    Album - Motley Crue

    Artist - Motley Crue

    Release Year - 1994

    Key Track(s) - Power To The Music, Till Death Do Us Part

    Drummer - Tommy Lee

    -

    Album - Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band

    Artist - Beatles

    Release Year - 1967

    Key Track(s) - Lovely Rita, A Day In The Life

    Drummer - Ringo Star


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Tina Raymond's (Drummer, Composer, Educator) Top 5 Influential Records Aug 09, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Tina Raymond. Tina is an accomplished drummer, composer, bandleader, and educator based in Los Angeles, CA and is the director of Jazz Studies at California State University Northridge. She presented globally and her teaching credits include Los Angeles City College, The Herbie Hancock Institute, University of Michigan, Bard College and Idyllwild Arts. She’s toured all over the world as a both a leader and sideman. Her upcoming releases include “Divinations” featuring 6 of her own compositions and Rachel Eckroth’s Live at Sam First. She’s incredibly talented and an expert at relaying information in a fun way. I really hope you learn something from this one; she goes over A LOT. I hope you enjoy the 5 records that shaped Tina Raymond into the drummer she is today. Cheers!

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    TINA'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Everybody Digs Bill Evans

    Artist - Bill Evans

    Release Year - 1959

    Key Track(s) - Minority

    Drummer - Philly Joe Jones

    -

    Album - Live at The Pershing

    Artist - Ahmad Jamal

    Release Year - 1959

    Key Track(s) Surrey With The Fringe On Top, Poinciana

    Drummer

    Vernel Fournier

    -

    Album - When the Pawn…

    Artist - Fiona Apple

    Release Year - 1999

    Key Track(s) - Limp, Fast As You Can

    Drummer - Matt Chamberlain, Butch Norton, Jim Keltner

    -

    Album - Art Pepper + Eleven

    Artist - Art Pepper

    Release Year - 1960

    Key Track(s) - Move, Groovin’ High

    Drummer - Mel Lewis

    -

    Album - Soul Station

    Artist - Hank Mobley

    Release Year - 1960

    Key Track(s) - This I Dig of You

    Drummer - Art Blakey


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


    Big Fat Five: Bosh Rothman's (Kills Birds, Living Things, Blondshell) Top 5 Influential Records Aug 02, 2023
    Show notes

    This week’s guest is Bosh Rothman. Bosh is an LA based drummer who’s played with Kills Birds, Living Things, Blondshell, Kim Gordon, Courtney Love, Marissa Nadler, Alison Mosshart and many more. I was first turned on to Bosh when I subbed for the main live drummer of the band, Blondshell this past January / February. And, while Bosh doesn’t normally tour with Blondshell, he recorded the drums on her debut record and it was really fun to learn his parts. The record kicks ass btw. Ever since that tour, I’ve wanted to get Bosh on the show so we finally made it happen…and I’m grateful we did! I hope you enjoy the 5 records that shaped Bosh Rothman into the drummer he is today. Cheers!

    ---

    Get Your Copy of the Drummers on Drumming Book Today!

    🎯 Click here to order now!

    Drummers on Drumming (the book) takes you inside the stories, records, and moments that shaped some of the world’s greatest drummers. Built on the Big Fat Five format of digging into top influences, it’s packed with candid interviews and personal insights. Whether you’re just starting out or have been playing for years, this book is here to inspire you to sharpen your skills and find your own voice behind the kit.


    BOSH'S BIG FAT FIVE 👇🏻

    -

    Album - Lōc-ed After Dark

    Artist - Tone Loc

    Release Year - 1989

    Key Track(s) - Wild thing

    -

    Album - Appetite For Destruction

    Artist - Guns N’ Roses

    Release Year - 1987

    Key Track(s)

    Welcome to the jungle

    Drummer - Steven Adler

    -

    Album - White Album

    Artist - The Beatles

    Release Year - 1968

    Key Track(s) - All!

    Drummer - Ringo Starr/Paul McCartney

    -

    Album - The Doors

    Artist - The Doors

    Release Year - 1967

    Key Track(s) - Break On Through

    Drummer - John Densmore

    -

    Album - Plastic Ono band

    Artist - John Lennon

    Release Year - 1971

    Key Track(s) - Well Well Well

    Drummer - Ringo Starr


    For more information on Big Fat Snare Drum, check out www.bigfatsnaredrum.com and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


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