Drink Beer, Think Beer With John Holl

Latest Episodes:

Ep. 130 - Beer Educator and Master Cicerone Mirella Amato Mar 30, 2022

Show notes

It’s great fun to have Mirella Amato on the show this week. I’ve had the good pleasure of knowing her for years and have enjoyed her writings and keen insight into the proper way to pair beer and food.

Amato is a Master Cicerone, as well as a Doemens Bier Sommelier. She the also the author of Beerology: Everything You Need to Know to Enjoy Beer…Even More, which is available where books are sold.

Recently the sensory and craft beer consultant launched a new online course through her website, Beerology. It’s called Mastering Beer and Food Pairing, and on this episode we talk about the course along with opera, current trends and tastes, and finding the right beer to match a mood.

This Episode is sponsored by:

World Beer Awards
I’m honored to serve as a co-chair of judges for the U.S. portion this year and we’re bringing experienced, fair-minded, and engaged judges to Washington D.C. later on this summer to blind taste beers and to hand out medals. The World Beer Awards ensures that each beer is judged both rigorously and fairly to give it its best chance in the competition. If you’re a professional brewer, Learn more about the competition and categories and sign up to enter at WorldBeerAwards.com. Early bird discount rates are available through April 1, 2022.

For more Drink Beer, Think Beer or to check out Beer Edge: The Newsletter for Beer Professionals, follow us on Twitter @thebeeredge and subscribe to our beer industry focused newsletter. There is more information, articles, and engaging content at Beer Edge.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Mirella Amato
Sponsors: World Beer Awards and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Food, IPA, Hazy IPA, Kettle Sours, Pairings, Opera

Ep. 129 - Sam Tierney of Firestone Walker Mar 23, 2022

Show notes

I’m excited to have Sam Tierney on the show this week. He’s been running Firestone Walker’s Propagator in Los Angeles for the six years it’s been open and has unique insight on creating small batches that could one day be scaled, experimenting with ingredients, and finding the sweet spot for drinkers.

He’s a passionate brewer who takes the role seriously and is constantly trying to find ways to improve upon techniques and processes.

As the brewery location nears another anniversary he reflects on how hops have evolved in beer and what it takes to stay fresh but not lose sight of history and tradition.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Jack's Abby
The first stop of 2022 in our Lagers of the World series takes us to Akureyri, Iceland. Our conversations with Einstök Beer led us to brew a Jóla Bock, which is a popular Christmas beer that lives up to the exceptional Christmas spirit in the country. Of course we're a little late for Christmas, but Bocks are still a wildly popular style this time of year and we can't wait for you to try Destination: Iceland

Host: John Holl
Guest: Sam Tierney
Sponsors: Jack's Abby and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, IPA, California, Tradition, Hops, History, Recipe Development

Ep. 128 - Andrew Foss of Human Robot Mar 16, 2022

Show notes

Show notes from host John Holl

"A few weeks ago I was in Rochester judging the New York State Beer Competition and on the last day of judging, my pal Lew Bryson walked into the room wearing a shirt that asked: "Got Milktubes?"

It was from Human Robot, a Philadelphia brewery that has leaned in hard on its love of lagers.

When the brewery opened two years ago in the site of the former St. Benjamin brewing, it didn’t get the full splash that it deserved due to the pandemic, but it has slowly built a local and vocal fanbase that stop by for beers and are quick to bend the ear of any beer enthusiast that will listen.

Growth is coming quickly to this brewery, as you’ll hear from Head Brewer Andrew Foss. We spoke after the company opened its second location and Foss will be heading up brewing at both, focusing on lagers, kettle sours, and juicy IPAs."

This Episode is sponsored by:

NZ Hops
NZ Hops, the co-operative of Master Hop Growers are a passionate collective of farms dedicated to innovation and sustainability. Leading the charge in sustainable farm practices, some NZ Hops farms have over five generations of knowledge that inform their composting program, used by growers to promote healthy regenerative growth of hops year upon year. This creates high quality soil, a critical component of healthy growing conditions. At NZ Hops, they feel that sustainability is not only being a steward for the land, but for our future.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Andrew Foss
Sponsors: NZ Hops, ProBrewer and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Barrel, New York, Tradition, Patience, History, Recipe Development

Ep. 127 - Micah Krichinsky and Eric Salazar of Strangebird Brewing Mar 09, 2022

Show notes

Show notes from John Holl:

"If you’ve been listening to this show as well as Steal This Beer over the last few weeks there’s been a focus in and around the Rochester, New York area breweries.

Rochester is of course well known for Genesee Beer, but over the last decade has emerged as a craft beer destination, fueled by small breweries who are paying careful attention to recipes, integrating into the local fabric through art and music, and giving chefs a chance to shine in the kitchens.

Among the many bright spots of the city’s beer scene is Strangebird.

It opened in January 2021 inside a sprawling yet solid building that once held a food co-op and immediately impresses with its well designed taproom, barrel aging space, and impactful kitchen.

Micah Krichinsky is a founder and brewer. He’s a student of biochemistry and microbiology and a graduate of the Master Brewer’s Program at the University of California at Davis. His career before Rochester had him at Capitol City Brewing in Washington, D.C. and then later at at Dogfish Head in Delaware, where he spent five years.

Eric Salazar is the brewery’s Director of Wood Aged Beers. His career started back in the 1990s at New Belgium Brewing Co. where, as you’ll hear, he learned to work with barrels and to trust and respect microbes.

Both of the brewers found their way to Rochester by way of their significant others, and are not only putting down family roots in the city but also long-term plans for the brewery and fostering the local beer scene.

They spoke with me from the bar where they were happily popping bottles, and I started off by asking about lessons learned from working at older breweries and the benefit of having nearly full careers before starting something of their own."

This Episode is sponsored by:

Host: John Holl
Guests: Micah Krichinsky & Eric Salazar
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers, ProBrewer and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Barrel, New York, Tradition, Patience, History, Recipe Development

Ep. 126 - Great Lakes Brewing Talks Tradition and Trends Mar 02, 2022

Show notes

Show notes from host John Holl:

"When you think about Great Lakes Brewing, Edmund Fitzgerald Porter likely comes to mind. It’s the flagship beer of a brewery that has helped shape craft beer in America and fostered the career of many in the industry. There's more to the Cleveland, Ohio than that one flagship and the brewery has been working to adapt to changing palates and trends.

For insight on what's been happening at the brewery and what is on the horizon, I’m joined this week by Mark Hunger the brewmaster And Michael Williams, the brand coordinator who works in the brewery’s marketing department.

We’re talking about history and the future, recipe development, flavors, and shifting consumer tastes. I start off by asking Mark, who has been around since almost the beginning, about his title and how to came about."

This Episode is sponsored by:

Host: John Holl
Guests: Mark Hunger & Michael Williams
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers, ProBrewer and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Porter, Pubs, Ohio, Tradition, Holidays, IPA, Lager

Ep. 125 - Jeff Bagby of Bagby Beer Co. Feb 23, 2022

Show notes

Brewers tend to get excited when Jeff Bagby is around. As one of the most awarded brewers in the country and a staunch voice for classic styles and well balanced beers, he extolls pleasures of creating lagers and ales that lend to a good time.

After a career that saw him on the brew decks of noted breweries like Stone and Pizza Port, where he was the director of brewing operations, he and his wife opened up Bagby Beer Co. in 2014 in a 8,500 square foot location that is not only home to the brewery but a restaurant, with plenty of areas suited for both meals and long evenings tucked into pints.

In an interview years ago said that when the brewery opened it didn’t even have an IPA on tap, focusing instead on lagers and other ales. Hoppy beers have come into the mix, but he’s still focused on session beers, drinkability, and keeping traditions alive.

As he explains on this episode the pandemic has been brutal to the business. There’s no sugar coating it. From government restrictions and unfulfilled promises, to customer interactions, staffing shortages, rising costs of labor and goods, and the day-to-day worry that comes from owning a small business, he’s been knocked around. A lot.

Bagby walks us through it all and doesn't hold back.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Athletic Brewing Co.
Athletic Brewing Company’s innovative process allows them to brew great-tasting

craft beer without the alcohol. From IPAs to stouts to golden ales and more, they offer a full selection of beers starting at only 50 calories. Now you can keep your head clear and enjoy the refreshing taste of beer anytime, anywhere. Place an order today at

athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers

can also get 10% off their entire order with code BeerEdge10. Limit one per customer.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Jeff Bagby
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers Athletic Brewing, and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Lager, Labor, California, Festivals, COVID-19

Ep. 124 - Other Half Brewing's Felipe Higgins Feb 16, 2022

Show notes

While the announcement a few years back might have surprised some, internally at Other Half the move into a brewery space in New York’s Finger Lakes region, just south of Rochester made sense.

The brewery had done a number of popups in the area and consumer reception was strong. When a brewery sitting on eight acres suddenly closed in the town of Bloomfield the brewery jumped at the chance, foregoing a city location for a more rural one.

This presented the opportunity for the brewery to push deeper into mixed fermentation and gave Felipe Higgins, who had worked previously in the brewery’s Brooklyn location, a chance to move north and focus on beers that deeply interested him as a brewer.

He’s really leaning into the local flora and giving the brewery’s coolship a good workout and between foraging and working with local farmers he’s finding new ingredients to incorporate into beers – many of which have been brewed over the last three years but have yet to be released to the public.

Felipe also talks about the clean program, how the IPAs and other beers being produced differ from the other brewery locations and compliment the overall portfolio.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Athletic Brewing Co.
Athletic Brewing Company’s innovative process allows them to brew great-tasting

athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers

can also get 10% off their entire order with code BeerEdge10. Limit one per customer.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Felipe Higgins
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers Athletic Brewing, and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, New York, Mixed Fermentation, Coolship, IPA, Farming, Craft Malt

Ep. 123 - Three Weavers, Crowns and Hops, and Rhinegeist Trade Barbs and Tips Feb 09, 2022

Show notes

Friendly bets have become popular under the backdrop of the Super Bowl. Mayors of cities that host game-bound teams engage in banter designed to boost tourism, friends take on each other, and small businesses go toe to toe and show off team pride.

Breweries are no different. This year as the Cincinnati Bengals take on the Los Angeles Rams at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California we welcome on three breweries engaged in such a bet.

The terms of the bet weren’t firmed up before recording this show and slowly get hashed out, if not completely resolved by the end. Spoiler alert: there will be costumes.

On the show this week, joining via zoom from their respective breweries are Lynne Weaver, the founder and owner of Three Weavers, a brewery in Inglewood, that, as you’ll hear, was briefly part of Canarchy, the brewery group recently purchased by Monster Beverages. She brought the company back to independence before that deal was closed.

She’s joined by her brewery neighbor Teo Hunter, a co-founder of Crowns and Hops, a brewery that started on social media, gained a grass roots following and has been working hard to bring change to the beer industry through action.

And representing Cincinnati is Matthew Steinke the director of sales at Rhinegeist Brewing, one of the state’s larger breweries and a source of local beer pride.

There are barbs and jabs thrown throughout this show, and they wind up steering the topics, and sharing experiences. We start off with the run up to the game, and Inglewood, which is hosting the game for the biggest night in American sports.

Editor's note: An earlier version of this episode misidentified the Ohio team playing in the Super Bowl. The game-bound team is the Cincinnati Bengals not the Cleveland Browns. The episode has been updated.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Athletic Brewing Co.
Athletic Brewing Company’s innovative process allows them to brew great-tasting

athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers

can also get 10% off their entire order with code BeerEdge10. Limit one per customer.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Lynne Weaver, Teo Hunter, and Matthew Steinke
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers Athletic Brewing, and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, California, Ohio, Football, Super Bowl, Hops, Business, Diversity and Inclusion, Tigger

Ep. 122 - Julian Shrago of Beachwood Brewing Feb 02, 2022

Show notes

Julian Shrago is the co-founder and brewmaster of Beachwood Brewing, which already boasts several locations in Southern California with more on the way.

He’s a thoughtful brewer, who takes big ideas and brings them down to a manageable level that are executed well and in my interactions with him over the years, at festivals, at the brewery, and just in the wild, I’m always struck by his thoughtful nature and his commitment to small brewers, traditional styles, and education.

On the show this week Shrago joins me from the brewery where we talk about the evolution and importance of West Coast IPAs, conveying the importance of being a small brewer to the world at large, musical influence, and how to best manage growth.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Stomp Stickers
Stomp Stickers is a proud member of the Brewers Association that produces a wide variety of printed brewery products such as beer labels, keg collars, coasters, beer boxes and much more. Stomp’s website features an easy-to-use design tool, low quantity orders, fast turn times, and free domestic shipping. Visit StompStickers.com and use code CRAFTBEER15 for 15% off your first order.

NZ Hops
NZ Hops, the co-operative of Master Hop Growers are a passionate collective of farms dedicated to innovation and sustainability. Leading the charge in sustainable farm practices, some NZ Hops farms have over five generations of knowledge that inform their composting program, used by growers to promote healthy regenerative growth of hops year upon year. This creates high quality soil, a critical component of healthy growing conditions. At NZ Hops, they feel that sustainability is not only being a steward for the land, but for our future.

Athletic Brewing Co.
Athletic Brewing Company’s innovative process allows them to brew great-tasting

athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers

can also get 10% off their entire order with code BeerEdge10. Limit one per customer.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Julian Shrago
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Stomp Stickers Athletic Brewing, and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, California, IPA, Barrels, Lager, Growth, Independence

Ep. 121 - Jenny Pfafflin of Dovetail Brewery Jan 26, 2022

Show notes

Jenny Pfafflin is the marketing and creative manager at Dovetail Brewery in Chicago. She’s also one of the four brewers on staff. That means she gets to spend her days talking about, thinking about, making, and drinking some of the most traditional and flavorful beers made in the U.S. today.

Dovetail is no stranger to this show. Episode Five featured Hagen Dost and Bill Wesselink the co-founders of the brewery, and gave birth to This Week in Rauchbier.

If you follow Dovetail on social media it is Pfafflin and her passion for brining forth a realistic drinking experience in a digital format.

Before Dovetail, she was an exam manager at the Cicerone Certification program, and is even an Advanced Cicerone herself.

Working at Dovetail Pfafflin can really explore her love of tradition, the beer industry and beer service, all things we talk about during the course of this episode. But we start off by going all the way back to the beginning.

This Episode is sponsored by:

Athletic Brewing Co.
Athletic Brewing Company’s innovative process allows them to brew great-tasting

athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers

can also get 10% off their entire order with code BeerEdge10. Limit one per customer.

Host: John Holl
Guest: Jenny Pfafflin
Sponsors: NZ Hops, Athletic Brewing, and The Beer Edge
Tags: Beer, Bars, COVID-19, Chicago, Lager, Helles, Travel, Tradition, The Simpsons, Glassware Kölsch

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