Divergent Conversations

Latest Episodes:

Episode 94: FLASHBACK — “What is ADHD?” (Part 1): Personal Stories and Professional Insights Feb 21, 2025

Show notes

Navigating the identification, assessment, and diagnosis of ADHD as an adult can be confusing and overwhelming. This mini-series on ADHD focuses on demystifying the diagnostic criteria and making the process clearer and more understandable.

In this flashback episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, dive into ADHD, breaking down what it means. This episode lays the groundwork for their series focused on ADHD.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Get an overview of the often misunderstood and oversimplified traits of ADHD, from executive functioning challenges to emotional hyperarousal.
Hear personal stories from Patrick and Dr. Neff as they reflect on their own ADHD experiences and how misdiagnoses and societal stereotypes can cloud self-understanding.
Discover the interconnectedness and overlapping traits between ADHD and autism, helping to clarify common misconceptions and pave the way for more nuanced discussions.

This episode sets the stage for our mini-series on ADHD.

DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM-5.

Resources:

ADHD DSM In pictures series: Blog post: neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/dsm-5-criteria-for-adhd-explained-in-pictures
PDF: neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/adhd-dsm-in-pictures

***This episode is the 4th of 10 episodes that Divergent Conversations is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months.

ANNOUNCEMENT: We’re extending our break a few additional episodes. If you want more information on what is happening with Dr. Neff and Neurodivergent Insights, you can read about it using the following link, as well as learn how to connect with and support their work: notion.so/neurodivergentinsights/Thank-You-For-Supporting-Our-Work-1aaa17a4bb8b80c790abfa4a08231b7a

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Thanks to Our Sponsor: Landmark College

✨Landmark College:

Landmark College is the world's first accredited college designed exclusively for students who learn differently. Landmark, located in Putney, Vermont, offers courses in person and online, awarding associate and bachelor's degrees, and offering pre-college, gap year, and professional development programs. With a student-to-faculty ratio of just 7 to 1, and the renowned Landmark College Institute for Research and Training, Landmark offers personalized and research-informed support for neurodivergent students that is not available at traditional colleges. Learn more about this opportunity at landmark.edu.

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

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Divergent Conversations Undergroundis a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Landmark College

Episode 93: FLASHBACK — ADHD Interest-Based Nervous Systems Feb 14, 2025

Show notes

Navigating the world with ADHD can present unique challenges, particularly when it comes to motivation and productivity. Whether it's the difficulty of getting started on mundane tasks or the complexities of staying engaged over time, the rollercoaster of emotional ups and downs can be hard to manage.

In this flashback episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the intricacies of the ADHD interest-based nervous system, how it impacts daily life, and practical ways to enhance motivation and productivity.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover effective techniques to manage your interest-based nervous system, from creating engaging environments to the use of dopamine stacking.
Gain insights into different approaches for handling mundane tasks like household chores, including the concept of body doubling and competition.
Learn how the 5 motivators encapsulated in the acronym P.I.N.C.H. (Passion [discussed in terms of Play for this episode], Interest, Novelty, Competition/Collaboration/Connection, and Hurry Up) can influence your actions and help overcome procrastination and anxiety.

Try exploring ways to incorporate the 5 motivators for the ADHD system into your environment and approach to tasks. Understanding your unique nervous system is a step toward having more engagement and productivity, even when facing understimulating tasks.

Resources:

Visit vs. Force-Based Approach to ADHD: neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/power-of-a-visit
Interest-Based Nervous System Article: neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/interest-based-nervous-system
Interest-Based Nervous System And ADHD Workbook: neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/interest-based-nervous-system

***This episode is the 3rd of 10 episodes that Divergent Conversations is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months.

ANNOUNCEMENT: We’re extending our break a few additional episodes. If you want more information on what is happening with Dr. Neff and Neurodivergent Insights, you can read about it using the following link, as well as learn how to connect with and support their work: notion.so/neurodivergentinsights/Thank-You-For-Supporting-Our-Work-1aaa17a4bb8b80c790abfa4a08231b7a

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Thanks to Our Sponsor: Landmark College

✨Landmark College:

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Landmark College

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 92: FLASHBACK — Understanding ADHD Tax: Impact, Personal Stories, and Management Strategies Feb 07, 2025

Show notes

It’s common for ADHDers to feel these waves of inspiration that may lead to a romanticized version of the future that would come by acting on them. However, if action is taken, it alternatively might be accompanied by the ADHD tax—financial burden, over-commitment, broken dreams and promises, feelings of guilt and regret, etc.

In this flashback episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the concept of the ADHD tax and its impact on various facets of life such as time, money, and relationships. Both hosts share their personal experiences and practical tips on how to better manage impulsivity, as well as explore the impact of standard marketing practices on impulsive action.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain valuable insights into how the ADHD tax manifests in everyday life, from impulsive travel bookings to forgotten groceries, and learn strategies to prevent and mitigate these financial and emotional costs.
Hear about the intricate balance of excitement and capacity in neurodivergent collaborations. Dive into tips for managing overwhelming enthusiasm and the importance of slow productivity and setting boundaries.
Learn ethical marketing practices that consider the needs of neurodivergent individuals, emphasizing the importance of building relationships over manipulative sales tactics and creating a consumer-friendly environment.

As you navigate the challenges of impulsivity and overstimulation, remember that understanding and implementing mindful strategies can help you lead a more balanced life. Take a moment to pause before making hasty decisions, and prioritize your well-being as you create a space where both your ideas and your downtime are respected.

***This episode is the 2nd of 10 episodes that Divergent Conversations is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months.

ANNOUNCEMENT: We’re extending our break a few additional episodes. If you want more information on what is happening with Dr. Neff and Neurodivergent Insights, you can read about it using the following link, as well as learn how to connect with and support their work: notion.so/neurodivergentinsights/Thank-You-For-Supporting-Our-Work-1aaa17a4bb8b80c790abfa4a08231b7a

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Thanks to Our Sponsors:

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 91: FLASHBACK — ADHD & Romanticism: Reconciling Fantasies with Reality Jan 31, 2025

Show notes

For ADHDers, romanticism is a common struggle where you find yourself constantly daydreaming about an ideal future and struggling with the reality of the present.

In this flashback episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the intricacies of romanticizing experiences and the repercussions that come with it. As neurodivergent mental health professionals, they offer a unique perspective on how projecting ideal futures can create a disconnect with the present, leading to disappointment and restlessness.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover the impact of romanticizing future outcomes on mental health, particularly for those with ADHD and other neurodivergent traits, and how it can disrupt your ability to enjoy the present moment.
Hear Dr. Neff and Patrick's personal stories about their struggles with restlessness and the unending need for new experiences, and learn how this affects their daily lives.
Explore strategies to reconcile your idealized visions of the future with the messy reality of the present, and find out how to cultivate a sense of settled contentment.

Take some time to reflect on your own tendencies to romanticize the future. Consider how this impacts your well-being and what steps you can take to stay grounded in the present and find balance one moment at a time.

***This episode is the 1st of 10 episodes that Divergent Conversations is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months.

ANNOUNCEMENT: We’re extending our break a few additional episodes. If you want more information on what is happening with Dr. Neff and Neurodivergent Insights, you can read about it using the following link, as well as learn how to connect with and support their work: notion.so/neurodivergentinsights/Thank-You-For-Supporting-Our-Work-1aaa17a4bb8b80c790abfa4a08231b7a

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Thanks to Our Sponsors:

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 90: Stepping Out of Comfort Zones: Our First Meeting and The Belize Retreat Experience Jan 24, 2025

Show notes

Navigating anxiety, social awkwardness, and the intricacies of neurodivergence while trying to connect with others can be overwhelming.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, reflect on their experiences from a recent neurodivergent retreat in Belize. They share personal tales of stepping out of comfort zones, managing social expectations, and the profound insights gained from being part of a neurodivergent community.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain a deeper understanding of how to honor your sensory and social needs in overwhelming environments, as both hosts candidly discuss their ambivalence, anxieties, and moments of growth during the retreat.
Hear firsthand accounts of how participating in a neurodivergent-exclusive community event can lead to meaningful connections and a sense of belonging, shedding light on the therapeutic power of shared experiences.
Learn valuable lessons on setting personal boundaries and allowing yourself the space to recharge, as Patrick and Dr. Neff explore the challenges and benefits of embracing self-care during social and professional events.

As you reflect on your own experiences with stepping outside your comfort zone, consider how you can create small moments of connection and community in your everyday life. Establish boundaries, honor your needs, and continue seeking spaces and relationships that allow you to show up authentically.

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Thanks to Our Sponsors:

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 89: Reflections and Insights From 2024 Jan 17, 2025

Show notes

For neurodivergent individuals, the journey toward intentional living and work-life balance comes with both unique challenges and profound opportunities for growth.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, reflect on their past 2024 year, discuss pivotal moments of personal development, and share their hopes and strategies for a more intentional future.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain insights on how Patrick Casale has navigated his post-surgery recovery, focusing on balancing energy with new opportunities and the significant role of a values-based decision framework.
Learn about Dr. Neff’s journey towards reduced workaholism, prioritizing family, and realigning her values, especially through her health challenges and boundary-setting measures.
Discover the hosts’ reflections on their nearly two-year podcast journey, their intentional shift towards more cohesive content, and their plans for future seasonal structuring inspired by other successful podcasts.

As you reflect on your own growth and challenges, consider how aligning your actions with your values can help you lead a more intentional and fulfilling life. Embrace the process of setting boundaries, seeking balance, and prioritizing your well-being for a healthier and more centered future.

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Thanks to Our Sponsors:

✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 88: Psychoanalysis (Part 3): Impact of Childhood Trauma on Autistic Adults [featuring Debra Brause] Jan 10, 2025

Show notes

Navigating the intricate dynamics of human relationships and the impacts of our early experiences can be challenging but also lead to healthier, more fulfilling connections.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, along with Debra Brause, Psy.D., discuss how early childhood experiences for Autistic individuals can shape their adult lives, the importance of seeing people as whole beings, and the transformative power of therapy.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Explore the meaning of whole object relations. Learn how acknowledging the complexity of both yourself and others can move beyond simplistic judgments, fostering deeper and more authentic relationships.
Get insights into childhood dynamics and trauma. Gain valuable perspectives on how childhood experiences, especially those marked by misattunement, affect our adult relationships and emotional health, and how therapy helps in developing self-soothing mechanisms.
Understand attachment and repetition compulsion. Delve into discussions about attachment theories and how our unconscious patterns in relationships aim to resolve past traumas, often repeating old cycles in an attempt to master unresolved issues.

As you reflect on this episode, consider how these insights might inform your own relationships and self-perception. By integrating a deeper understanding of your past and recognizing the complexity in others, you can foster healthier and more fulfilling connections.

More about Debra:

Debra Brause, Psy.D., received her B.A from the University of Pennsylvania and her Doctorate in Psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology (CSPP). Her professional training includes diagnostic assessment for learning disabilities at UCLA, a postgraduate fellowship in psychoanalytic psychotherapy at the Wright Institute Los Angeles, clinical work in community mental health settings, and continuing participation in psychoanalytic consultation groups.

Dr. Brause has served as a clinical supervisor at multiple community mental health settings around Los Angeles and provides trainings to psychoanalytic psychology interns on Neurodiversity.

Prior to becoming a psychologist, Dr. Brause spent ten years in the entertainment industry, working in television production, news, and as a studio development executive.

She has a blog on Psychology Today about raising a neurodivergent child. In her private practice, she is passionate about working with parents raising neurodivergent children as well as Autistic adults from a neurodiversity-affirming perspective.

Website: drdebrabrause.com
Instagram: @debrabrause

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Episode 87: Psychoanalysis (Part 2): ADHD Ways to Focus Without Force [featuring Kourosh Dini] Jan 03, 2025

Show notes

For ADHDers who feel overwhelmed by the challenges of maintaining focus and managing anxiety around a flood of to-dos and expectations, finding effective strategies can make all the difference.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, along with Dr. Kourosh Dini, a clinical psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, musician, and creator of Waves of Focus, discuss how creative minds, including ADHDers, can harmonize play and productivity without succumbing to stress or societal pressures.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover practical strategies to navigate anxiety and enhance focus: Find out how Dr. Dini's "Waves of Focus" framework can provide actionable techniques to improve your concentration and manage anxiety, tailored specifically for neurodivergent individuals.
Deep dive into the fascinating links between creativity, agency, and play: Understand how playful exploration can be a powerful tool in forming your identity and maintaining mental health.
Learn about innovative methods to foster a genuine sense of agency: Gain insights into 3 simple practices that can transform your relationship with your tasks and decisions, bolstering your executive function and autonomy.

As you reflect on this episode, think about how you can integrate more play into your daily routines and find your internal rhythm. Consider ways to nurture your sense of agency and make mindful choices that align with your true self.

More about Dr. Kourosh Dini:

As a clinical psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and musician, Kourosh has both experienced and seen the great difficulties creatives as well as those with ADHD or anxiety can have. He created the Waves of Focus, a framework that has fundamentally changed how many of his students and clients engage their work and play.

Academics include Northwestern University as a part of the Integrated Science Program with a focus in the neurosciences. His medical degree and residency in adult psychiatry were obtained through the University of Illinois at Chicago.

He pursued further studies in child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of Chicago. Kourosh also practices psychoanalysis having graduated from the Institute for Psychoanalysis, and maintains a private practice in Chicago involving therapy, meditation, and medication management.

Author of Creating Flow with OmniFocus, Taking Smart Notes with DEVONthink, and Workflow Mastery.

Sign up for the Weekly Wind Down newsletter for a free PDF, "Your First Step to Breaking Free from Force-Based Work” at https://wavesoffocus.com/Your-First-Step-to-Breaking-Free-from-Force-Based%20Work.
Get a 2 Weeks/$20 trial subscription to the Waves of Focus membership: https://wavesoffocus.circle.so/checkout/waves-of-focus-dollar20-trial-and-subscription
Websites: kouroshdini.com and kouroshdinimd.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kouroshdinimd

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Episode 86: Psychoanalysis (Part 1): Bridging Science With Soul [featuring Dr. Karissa Burnett] Dec 27, 2024

Show notes

As a neurodivergent individual, it can sometimes feel like your true self is hidden beneath layers of societal expectations.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, along with Dr. Karissa Burnett, a depth psychologist, trauma specialist, the founder of Divergent Pathways, and a late-diagnosed Autistic ADHDer, discuss the deep inner workings of the mind, the societal challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals, and the valuable insights that psychoanalytic therapy can offer. Together, they explore the intersections of depth psychology, authenticity, and the lived experiences of Autistic individuals, aiming to shed light on often misunderstood aspects of mental health.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover how making unconscious feelings and behaviors conscious can lead to significant healing and a deeper understanding of oneself.
Gain insights into societal discomfort with authenticity and how autistic behaviors can challenge social norms by exposing hidden realities, framed through a canary-in-the-coal-mine metaphor.
Learn about therapeutic approaches like psychoanalytic therapy and Internal Family Systems (IFS) that go beyond symptom management to understand the underlying reasons for behaviors, offering transformative potential for neurodivergent individuals.

As you reflect on today’s episode, consider the true self that you might be keeping hidden and think about the societal norms that challenge your authenticity. Remember, making the unconscious conscious is a journey toward healing and self-discovery.

NOTE: In this episode, we touch on the concept of "sacred rage," which is explored in-depth by Dr. Jennifer Mullan in her book Decolonizing Therapy.

More about Dr. Karissa Burnett:

Dr. Karissa Burnett (she/her) is a trailblazing depth psychologist and trauma specialist known for bridging science with soul. As the founder of Divergent Pathways and a late-diagnosed Autistic ADHDer herself, she provides transformative therapeutic assessments that empower clients to embrace their authentic selves. Featured in the American Psychological Association's “Monitor on Psychology" magazine for advancing neurodiversity-affirming care, Dr. Burnett advocates for disability justice, providing consultation to the ACLU and using her voice to promote systemic change.

Website: divergentpathways.com
Facebook: facebook.com/divergentpathways

Dr. Burnett provides therapeutic assessments for adults in MA, CA, and WA. Clinical Consultation is available for clinicians worldwide.

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We've edited the opening segment following feedback about impact and privilege. We appreciate our community helping us grow. This version focuses on the deeper psychodynamic insights explored in this episode. When we realized that the opening segment could cause potential harm to listeners, we wanted to minimize the negative impact that it could have.

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Episode 85: Giftedness (Part 6): Series Reflections and Insights Dec 20, 2024

Show notes

Navigating the world as a gifted individual can be emotionally taxing and filled with both internal and external challenges that are often dismissed or minimized by oneself and others. The giftedness label is often viewed as a privilege resulting in failure to recognize and offer support for the very real struggles that can come with it.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, open up about their personal experiences and discuss the complexities of giftedness, identity, and coping mechanisms in the context of mental health.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover how giftedness and neurodivergence both intersect and differ, offering nuanced perspectives on recognizing and understanding these traits.
Learn about how this giftedness series sparked deep self-reflection for the hosts, creating a space for them and listeners to explore the emotional layers of their experiences.
Delve into thoughtful discussions on how societal perceptions of intelligence and privilege impact self-identity and mental health, challenging common assumptions about capability and success.

As you reflect on your own experiences or the experiences of those around you, consider the ways in which you navigate your identity and emotions. Remember, it’s okay to seek support and embrace your complexities.

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