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    Deviate

    Rolf Potts veers off-topic in this unique series of conversations with experts, public figures, and intriguing people.

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    Copyright: © 2021 Rolf Potts

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    Latest Episodes:
    Deviate Christmas Special: Celebrating the Sears Wish Book [Rebroadcast] Dec 17, 2019
    Show notes

    “The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”

    In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the Gangsterland series, which is currently being developed into a television show. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast.

    Introduction (01:35 – 12:20)

    • Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive
    • What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss
    • Klonopin (anxiety medication)
    • Janis Ian (singer-songwriter)
    • Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness)

    Literature of Desire essay (12:20 – 33:20)

    • Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder)
    • Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience
    • Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses)
    • That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows)
    • Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models)
    • Pong (video game)
    • Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line)
    • Jay J. Armes (private investigator)
    • JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial)
    • “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly
    • WishBookcom

    Sears Wish Book memories (33:20 – 51:10)

    • Action figures (dolls marketed to boys)
    • Toughskins (jeans for children)
    • Huffy (bicycle brand)
    • BEST (showroom retail store)
    • “Kerouac’s Fantasy Baseball Obsession” from Mental Floss
    • Coleco’s Electronic Quarterback (game)

    This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    Bonus: On the therapeutic uses of reading classic literature and scripture Dec 12, 2019
    Show notes

    “Going the longer route through literature, rather than just reading self-help, will ultimately be more satisfying.” – Jeffrey Tayler

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeffrey discuss navigating life’s challenges through literature (3:00); Ecclesiastes and the great stories of history (12:00); and using literature to make sense of ones life (19:00).

    Jeffrey Tayler (@JeffreyTayler1) is an American writer and journalist living in Moscow. He is a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and many of his essays have been selected for The Best American Travel Writing series. Two of his travel essays were also selected by Bill Bryson for the inaugural edition of The Best American Travel Writing 2000. He is the author of seven books, including Siberian Dawn and Facing the Congo. His recent book, In Putin’s Footsteps, which he co-authored with Nikita Khrushchev’s great grand-daughter, is out now.

    Notable Links:

    • Ecclesiastes (biblical text)
    • A Book of the Bible Even an Atheist Can Love, by Jeffrey Tayler (essay)
    • Geneva Bible (Shakespeare era bible translation)
    • King James Bible (iconic English bible translation completed in 1611)
    • NIV Bible (modern bible translation first published in 1978)
    • The Gospels (biblical books about Jesus’ life and teaching)
    • Turn! Turn! Turn! (Pete Seeger song popularized by The Byrds)
    • Paradise Lost, by John Milton (poem)
    • Homer (author)
    • Virgil (poet)
    • Epicurus (Greek philosopher)
    • The Divine Comedy, by Dante (narrative poem)
    • Walden, by Henry David Thoreau (book)
    • The Death of Ivan Ilych, by Leo Tolstoy (novella)
    • Anna Karenina, by Leo Tolstoy (novel)

    This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    America’s most solemn historical sites rarely offer an honest take on history Dec 03, 2019
    Show notes

    “So much of what is wrong with America today began with the Civil War and Reconstruction” – Jason Cochran

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason discuss the monuments at Gettysburg, and the concept of a Civil War “hero” (2:00); the revisionist post-war memorial efforts by Southern organizations (13:00); the concept of memorials, and how they shape memory (26:00); and our relationship with deceased celebrities, and how to interpret America through its monuments (40:00).

    Jason Cochran (@JasCochran), the award-winning author of Here Lies America, has been a travel authority and consumer expert for over 20 years. His work has appeared in such publications as Travel + Leisure, the New York Post, USA Today, and The New York Times. He is currently Editor-in-Chief of Frommers.com and co-host with Pauline Frommer of the weekly Travel Show on WABC. For more about Jason, check out https://jasoncochran.com/.

    Notable Links:

    • Battle of Gettysburg
    • Andersonville Historical Site
    • Reconstruction Era
    • Robert E. Lee (Commander of the Confederate Army)
    • United Daughters of the Confederacy (association)
    • Ladies Memorial Associations (Southern monument effort)
    • Ford’ Theatre (site of Lincoln assassination)
    • Ken Burns (filmmaker)
    • Jim Crow Laws
    • National Lynching Memorial
    • The Canterbury Tales, by Geoffrey Chaucer (book)
    • Negro Leagues Baseball Museum
    • USS Maine National Monument
    • Grant’s Tomb
    • Prison Ship Martyrs’ Monument (Revolutionary War memorial)
    • National September 11 Memorial & Museum
    • Forest Lawn Memorial Park
    • Hollywood Forever Cemetery
    • Père Lachaise Cemetery (Paris)
    • Tulsa race riot (1921 massacre)
    • Haymarket affair (1886 Chicago incident)
    • Johnstown Flood
    • 1906 San Francisco earthquake
    • Vietnam Veterans Memorial
    • Battle of Antietam
    • Stonewall Jackson (Civil War general)
    • Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book)

    This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    Author Alex Banayan on seeking mentors for life (and writing) guidance Nov 26, 2019
    Show notes

    “You cannot change your reality until you see your reality.” – Alex Banayan

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alex discuss mentorship (3:00); the genesis of Alex’s book The Third Door (10:00); “opportunity hurdles” (30:00); structural storytelling, and the art of learning (54:00); and the importance of thinking differently (1:11:00).

    Alex Banayan (@AlexBanayan) is the bestselling business author of The Third Door, which chronicles his five-year quest to track down Bill Gates, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, and dozens more of the world’s most successful people to uncover how they broke through and launched their careers. Alex has been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list, Business Insider’s Most Powerful People Under 30, and been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, and Businessweek. For more about Alex, check out https://thirddoorbook.com/.

    Notable Links:

    • Tim Ferriss (entrepreneur)
    • Bill Gates (businessman)
    • Lady Gaga (singer)
    • Maya Angelou (poet)
    • Warren Buffett (businessman)
    • Steven Spielberg (filmmaker)
    • Elliott Bisnow (investor)
    • Cal Fussman (journalist)
    • Tools of Titans, by Tim Ferriss (book)
    • Tribe of Mentors, by Tim Ferriss (book)
    • The Odyssey, by Homer (epic poem)
    • Aaron Sorkin (screenwriter / director)
    • Elon Musk (entrepreneur)
    • Kurt Vonnegut (author)
    • Steve Jobs (businessman)
    • “Think Different” internal meeting (video)
    • Jerry Seinfeld (comedian)
    • Jane Goodall (anthropologist)
    • Macbeth (Shakespeare tragedy)
    • Hero’s journey (narrative template)
    • Pitbull (rapper)
    • Jessica Alba (actress)
    • Quincy Jones (producer)
    • Unbroken, by Laura Hillenbrand (book)
    • Jiro Dreams of Sushi (movie)

    This episode of Deviate is brought to you by the Paris Writing Workshop, which features a one-week Big Idea Book Bootcamp, which teaches people with expertise in a specific professional field — business, medicine, science, sports, finance, etc — to channel that expertise into a book-length narrative that inspires, enlightens, and transforms readers’ perspectives of the world, and of life.

    This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks, and AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize the route to fit your journey.

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    The world’s cheapest destinations, and why (besides savings) they’re great Nov 12, 2019
    Show notes

    “It’s good as you travel to take the time to do nothing, and have nothing planned.” –Tim Leffel

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss the advantages of traveling to cheaper parts of the world (3:00); how living overseas can actually be cheaper than your life at home (13:00); strategies to save money on the road (23:00); setting a budget, and counterintuitive sightseeing (34:00); and breaking the myth of expensive European travel (51:00).

    Tim Leffel (@timleffel) is an award-winning travel writer and author of The World’s Cheapest Destinations and A Better Life for Half the Price. He is the editor of the narrative web publication Perceptive Travel. For more about Tim, check out https://timleffel.com.

    This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

    This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey.

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    How philosophy can (truly) improve your life, featuring Monica McCarthy May 08, 2019
    Show notes

    “The challenge is that we have to become philosophers ourselves, in a way. We have to learn to ask better questions and more questions than we had to before.” – Monica McCarthy

    Monica McCarthy (@MissMMcCarthy) is an actress, writer, and host of The Happier Hour podcast and live show, which aims to make philosophy useful and accessible. For more about Monica, you can check our her website or watch her TedX talk, Philosophy: The Life Hack of the Future.

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks with Monica about the “definition” of philosophy (3:00); where people should start when seeking to embrace philosophy (16:00); travel as a metaphor for discussing philosophy (22:00); Western philosophy and common assumptions about it (32:00); and key takeaways from Monica’s podcast (50:00).

    Notable Links:

    • Tim Ferriss (author / entrepreneur)
    • Ryan Holiday (author)
    • Alain de Botton (author / philosopher)
    • Socrates (philosopher)
    • Søren Kierkegaard (philosopher)
    • Ludwig Wittgenstein (philosopher)
    • Simone de Beauvoir (philosopher)
    • Jean-Paul Sartre (philosopher)
    • Friedrich Nietzsche (philosopher)
    • Albert Camus (philosopher)
    • David Hume (philosopher)
    • Epicurus (philosopher)
    • Avicenna (philosopher)
    • Stoicism (school of philosophy)
    • Existentialism (school of philosophy)
    • Nero (Roman emperor)
    • Massimo Pigliucci (professor of Philosophy at CUNY-City College)
    • At the Existentialist Café, by Sarah Bakewell (book)
    • The Good Place (television show)
    • Trolley Problem (thought experiment)
    • The School of Life (educational company)

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    Deviate Season One finale with Ari Shaffir Nov 13, 2018
    Show notes

    “The hashtag level of social media discourse can be really frustrating. It tends to bend narratives toward the hashtag slogan. But when we start sweeping everything into the same category, we begin to trivialize the core issue.” – Rolf Potts

    Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the podcast Skeptic Tank.

    In the Season 1 Finale of Deviate, Rolf and Ari resume their conversation about magic mushrooms (7:00); discuss Ari’s strange bets and the experience of panhandling for money (17:00); reflect on lessons learned from the past year of podcasting (32:00); discuss the shortcomings of travel television (55:00); and explore self-mythology and society’s over-simplification of complex topics (1:07:00).

    This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Airtreks can help with your international flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The Airtreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, and can customize to fit your journey.

    Visit https://www.airtreks.com/deviate/ and get a signed copy of Vagabonding when you book your first trip with Airtreks.

    Deviate episodes mentioned

    • Bestselling author Tim Ferriss on how to create a successful podcast
    • Comedian Ari Shaffir on ‘shrooms, hugging, and quitting smartphones
    • Ari Shaffir on travel, memory, and the odd psychology of souvenirs
    • Satanic backward masking changed 1980s rock (but not in the way you think)
    • What it’s like to be a black police officer in America
    • What it’s like to be a Latino police officer in America
    • The weird and complicated history of America’s national anthem
    • Punk icon Ian MacKaye on why we should question the official history of rock music
    • Celebrating the best places to live (and the quest for home) in America
    • Kink Doctor Dulcinea Pitagora on sex therapy, BDSM, and dominatrix work
    • The way we grow food has been broken for 10,000 years (but we can fix it)
    • Deviate Live in New York City: Travel Stories and Souvenirs
    • White Zombie guitarist J. Yuenger on music, expat life, and long-term travel
    • Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (and why you should travel now)
    • Andrew McCarthy on storytelling, celebrity, and how travel changed his life
    • Paul Theroux on the art of listening, and the necessary obstacles of deep travel

    Other links

    • 20,000 Days On Earth (Nick Cave documentary)
    • The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand (book)
    • Museum of Jurassic Technology
    • Scientology Center
    • Joe Rogan podcast
    • Henry Rollins Travel Slideshow
    • Punch Drunk Sports (podcast)
    • Cal Fussman podcast
    • How Mushrooms Can Save You (Tim Ferriss podcast episode)
    • Lok lak (Cambodian beef dish)
    • Osprey (backpack brand)
    • Tortuga (backpack brand)
    • Blundstone (footwear company)
    • Evan Williams (bourbon brand)

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    An outsider’s inside history of the Beat Generation, as told by Charles Plymell Nov 06, 2018
    Show notes

    “To me the term Beat was like, “Hey man I’m beat,” after all night on Benzedrine. I never considered myself a Beat. But my first book was published by Ferlinghetti and they all arrived at my doorstep when I lived at Gough Street, so I guess I became a Beat by osmosis.” —Charles Plymell

    Charles Plymell is a poet, novelist, and small press publisher. Plymell has collaborated with and published many poets, writers, and artists, including principals of the Beat Generation. Benzedrine Highway, published in 2013, is an anthology of his best-known poetry and prose, including excerpts from his 1971 City Lights novel The Last of the Moccasins.

    In this episode of Deviate, Charles and his wife Pamela Beach Plymell discuss their memories of (and interactions with) Jack Kerouac (4:55); Charley’s upbringing in Dust Bowl-era Kansas, and his early road-trips to California (11:05); life as a young hood and hipster in Wichita (14:40); meeting and interacting with the Beats in San Francisco (19:20); rooming with Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsberg when Cassady was trying to write his own book (23:55); hosting Ginsberg during the poet’s Wichita Vortex Sutra journey to Kansas in 1966 (30:50); publishing the first issue of R. Crumb’s Zap Comix just before the Summer of Love (35:35); working at a teamster on the San Francisco docks, and getting his own novel published (39:50); and interacting with William S. Burroughs in the later years of the author’s life (46:00).

    For more information on Charley, check out his fan page at http://hipsterfansite.blogspot.com/.

    Notable Links:

    • Beat Generation (literary movement)
    • Jack Kerouac (Beat author and poet)
    • William F. Buckley Jr. (conservative intellectual)
    • Firing Line (public affairs TV show)
    • Truman Capote (author and critic)
    • Hand on the Doorknob, by Charles Plymell (book)
    • Benzedrine and Dexedrine (amphetamine pills)
    • Neal Cassady (Beat Generation personality)
    • Allen Ginsberg (Beat poet)
    • The First Third, by Neal Cassady (book)
    • Lawrence Ferlinghetti (poet and publisher)
    • City Lights (independent bookstore)
    • Wichita Vortex Sutra, by Allen Ginsberg (poem)
    • “The Last Anti-War Poem,” by Rolf Potts (essay)
    • Wichita Vortex (PBS documentary about the poem)
    • Robert Crumb (underground cartoonist)
    • Zap Comix (counterculture comic book series)
    • Summer of Love (1967 hippie event in San Francisco)
    • Human Be-in (Summer of Love event)
    • Featherbedding (hiring practice)
    • Johns Hopkins Writing Seminars (creative writing program)
    • William S. Burroughs (writer and artist)
    • The death of Joan Vollmer (Burroughs’ wife)
    • Macbeth (Shakespeare play)
    • “Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow” (Macbeth soliloquy)
    • Sonnet 65 (Shakespeare poem)
    • “The “Priest” They Called Him” (Burroughs/Kurt Cobain collaboration)
    • “Nobody Rides For Free” by Grant Hart (music video)

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    Author Pam Houston on the joys of creating home amid a lifetime of travel Oct 16, 2018
    Show notes

    “How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston

    Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019.

    In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay “Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process.”

    For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/

    Notable Links:

    • Santa Fe Writers Workshop
    • “Some Kind of Calling,” by Pam Houston (essay)
    • “Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love” (essay)
    • Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book)
    • Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book)
    • My Antonia, by Willa Cather (novel)
    • Alice Munro (author)
    • Terry Tempest Williams (author)
    • The Meadow, by James Galvan (book)
    • West Fork Complex (2013 wildfire)

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


    Major Jackson on the poetics of time (and how best, in life, to spend it) Oct 02, 2018
    Show notes

    “The act of creating is a way of stopping time.” – Major Jackson

    Major Jackson (@Poet_Major) is an American poet, professor, and author of four collections of poetry: Roll Deep, Holding Company, Hoops, and Leaving Saturn. He currently serves as the Poetry Editor of the Harvard Review.

    In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Major discuss the changing perception of time and how creation leads to a deeper experience of time (2:00); poetry and the lessons it teaches us about life (23:00); and time as prison, the way we claim our freedom, and art as a means toward transcendence (39:00).

    For more information on Major, check out his website at http://www.majorjackson.com/

    Poems and books mentioned:

    • The Gutenberg Elegies, by Sven Birkerts (book)
    • “The World Is Too Much With Us” (poem by William Wordsworth)
    • “To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time” (poem by Robert Herrick)
    • “Ode: Intimations of Immortality” (Wordsworth poem)
    • “On Disappearing” (poem by Major Jackson)
    • “Stations” (poem by Stanley Moss)
    • Into the Mecca by Gwendolyn Brooks (book)
    • Jerusalem (poem by James Fenton)
    • Jerusalem, by Peter Cole (essay)
    • The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book)
    • “Lying in a Hammock at William Duffy’s Farm in Pine Island, Minnesota” (poem by James Wright)

    Notable Links:

    • Paris Writing Workshop (summer creative writing course)
    • Dead Poets Society (film)
    • Carpe Diem (Latin aphorism)
    • Walt Whitman (poet)
    • Eastern State Penitentiary (former prison in Philadelphia)
    • Michel Foucault (philosopher)
    • True Detective (HBO TV series)
    • John Muir (naturalist)
    • Jack Kerouac (author)
    • Croesus (wealthy king from ancient times)
    • Seneca (philosopher)
    • Dazed and Confused (film)
    • Richard Linklater (writer and director)
    • Ingmar Bergman (director)
    • Cinéma vérité (documentary filmmaking style)
    • Film composer Rolfe Kent on Deviate (podcast episode)

    The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

    Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


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