Stay ConnectedThe English punk movement, circa 1976, influenced multiple generations of artists, photographers, writers, designers, and musicians. Host Richard Smith interviews the key protagonists of this cultural revolution, who impacted every aspect of society and is still being felt today.
Produced by BRB Studios Visit berightbackstudios.com for more details.
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates. Visit our website for transcripts and more destroypunkpodcast.com
Copyright: © Richard Smith
“Fond affections are never said, they’re only sung in song.” (Michael Allen, Rema Rema)
—
Born in 1957 in County Durham, northeast England, British designer Vaughan Oliver stepped out of a world steeped in tradition and into the nonconformist realm of the music industry.
Growing up in an environment devoid of culture, it was through Surrealism and Pop Art that he discovered modern art, its power to open up his imagination, and provide a doorway to new adventures rich with possibilities.
Inspired by the work of record cover designer Roger Dean, he eventually found his calling at independent record label 4AD, where he worked with many of post-punk’s early pioneers: Cocteau Twins, Modern English, Colourbox, Lush, and of course This Mortal Coil.
In 1982, with school friend and photographer Nigel Grierson, he founded the design studio 23 Envelope, which quickly became a center for creative innovation and revolution.
In 1988, after Oliver and Grierson decided to part ways, Oliver went on to establish V23, fostering creative relationships with a new band of like-minded revolutionaries such as Chris Bigg and Simon Larbalestier, whose collaboration on the Pixies' Minotaur box set would earn them all a Grammy in 2010.
The studio’s work also expanded into TV and film, but Oliver was always at his most content sitting down with a group of students, talking about ideas and football.
He was a generous man, a loving father, a dedicated teacher, and an inspiration for generations of designers and musicians.
After he died in 2019 at age 62, his legacy continued through his wife, Lee, who helped establish the Vaughan Oliver Graphic Design Scholarship program with Northumbria University and 4AD in 2021.
Vaughan Oliver was a man of vast cerebral intellect with an impeccable sense of comedic timing.
His life’s work was a poetic journey through sight and sound, and his impact on art and culture is still being felt today.
This isn’t a biography. It’s a collage. Of images, of memory, of fond affections. The kind you can’t always say out loud—but you never forget.
Featuring interviews with: Simon Raymonde, musician, founder Bella Union records; Paul West, artist and designer, founder Form; Tim O’Donnell, designer; Tom Murray, filmmaker and musician, founder Tulipomania; Adrian Shaughnessy, author, designer, publisher; Miki Berenyi, songwriter and musician, founder Lush and MB3; Graham Wood, art director and designer, founder Tomato; Jonathan Barnbrook, designer; Chris Bigg, designer. Archival audio: Vaughan Oliver, designer; Nigel Grierson, photographer; Ivo Watts-Russell, founder 4AD Records. Additional contributions from: Malcolm Garrett, designer, founder Assorted iMages; Neville Brody, designer, founder Brody Associates. And with generous support from Lee Widdows, art director, trend consultant, School Academic Lead UCA, Epsom, and keeper of the light.
“Fond affections are never said, they’re only sung in song.” (Michael Allen, Rema Rema)
—
Born in 1957 in County Durham, northeast England, British designer Vaughan Oliver stepped out of a world steeped in tradition and into the nonconformist realm of the music industry.
Growing up in an environment devoid of culture, it was through Surrealism and Pop Art that he discovered modern art, its power to open up his imagination, and provide a doorway to new adventures rich with possibilities.
Inspired by the work of record cover designer Roger Dean, he eventually found his calling at independent record label 4AD, where he worked with many of post-punk’s early pioneers: Cocteau Twins, Modern English, Colourbox, Lush, and of course This Mortal Coil.
In 1982, with school friend and photographer Nigel Grierson, he founded the design studio 23 Envelope, which quickly became a center for creative innovation and revolution.
In 1988, after Oliver and Grierson decided to part ways, Oliver went on to establish V23, fostering creative relationships with a new band of like-minded revolutionaries such as Chris Bigg and Simon Larbalestier, whose collaboration on the Pixies' Minotaur box set would earn them all a Grammy in 2010.
The studio’s work also expanded into TV and film, but Oliver was always at his most content sitting down with a group of students, talking about ideas and football.
He was a generous man, a loving father, a dedicated teacher, and an inspiration for generations of designers and musicians.
After he died in 2019 at age 62, his legacy continued through his wife, Lee, who helped establish the Vaughan Oliver Graphic Design Scholarship program with Northumbria University and 4AD in 2021.
Vaughan Oliver was a man of vast cerebral intellect with an impeccable sense of comedic timing.
His life’s work was a poetic journey through sight and sound, and his impact on art and culture is still being felt today.
This isn’t a biography. It’s a collage. Of images, of memory, of fond affections. The kind you can’t always say out loud—but you never forget.
Featuring interviews with: Simon Raymonde, musician, founder Bella Union records; Paul West, artist and designer, founder Form; Tim O’Donnell, designer; Tom Murray, filmmaker and musician, founder Tulipomania; Adrian Shaughnessy, author, designer, publisher; Miki Berenyi, songwriter and musician, founder Lush and MB3; Graham Wood, art director and designer, founder Tomato; Jonathan Barnbrook, designer; Chris Bigg, designer. Archival audio: Vaughan Oliver, designer; Nigel Grierson, photographer; Ivo Watts-Russell, founder 4AD Records. Additional contributions from: Malcolm Garrett, designer, founder Assorted iMages; Neville Brody, designer, founder Brody Associates. And with generous support from Lee Widdows, art director, trend consultant, School Academic Lead UCA, Epsom, and keeper of the light.
Legs McNeil didn’t just witness punk’s birth, he helped name it. From the chaos of late ’70s New York, McNeil carved out a space for misfits, outsiders, and anyone who didn’t fit the mold. As the co-founder of Punk magazine, he gave voice to the subculture, capturing its raw defiance and shaping its legacy in ways no one could have predicted.
In this episode, we trace McNeil’s journey from Connecticut to New York City, where he collided with the anarchic energy of CBGBs and the raw force of bands like The Ramones. His magazine wasn’t just about music, it was a declaration of war against the establishment.
“I never thought what I did was shocking, I just thought it was normal.” (Legs McNeil)
But McNeil’s story isn’t just about punk. His curiosity took him into worlds few would dare enter, the criminal underworld and the adult film industry. In this episode, we discuss how he went from punk provocateur to chronicler of outsiders, writing The Other Hollywood, a raw, uncensored oral history of the porn industry, and uncovering the dark truths behind Frank Lucas and the infamous American Gangster story.
“I’ve always wanted to understand the things most people don’t want to see.” (Legs McNeil)
Through his unflinching gaze, he found humanity in the shadows. McNeil’s journey is about more than rebellion; it’s about understanding the unseen, listening where others turn away, and finding truth in the chaos.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
As a punk provocateur, design obsessive, and relentless shape-shifter, Spizz emerged from the chaos of late ’70s Britain with a DIY ethos and a sci-fi imagination that still defies categorization. He’s never fit the mold, not as a punk frontman, not as a designer, not even as a radio host.
In this episode, we trace his wild trajectory: from gatecrashing the Birmingham Punk Festival to supporting Siouxsie and the Banshees, from four John Peel sessions to touring with the Human League, and designing record sleeves, fonts, and alter-egos along the way.
“I saw The Clash and thought, I want some of that… I blagged my way on stage and just made it all up.” (Spizz)
Over the decades, he’s played Wembley and the Marquee, written Star Trek musical trilogies, and used monikers like SpizzOrwell to collapse past, present, and future into one surreal performance.
A relentless shape-shifter, we talk about Bowie and Orwell, about rebellion and surveillance, about fandom, identity, and why he’s still remixing the future in his 60s, broadcasting from the edge of tomorrow, hosting Spizz FM, generating AI musical experimentations, and performing acoustic sets as Spizzology – proof he’s still a cult figure with extraterrestrial ambitions.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Jon Savage’s journey into the heart of youth culture began at Cambridge University, where he turned his back on a career in law to pursue his passion for music and cultural criticism.
From his early days writing fanzines in the 1970s to his influential roles at Sounds and Melody Maker, Savage became a defining voice in the world of punk and beyond.
His landmark book England’s Dreaming captured the essence of punk, which, for Savage, was never just a genre, it was a cultural movement that challenged the status quo and created a space for personal expression and rebellion.
In his latest book, The Secret Public, Savage explores the transformative power of LGBTQ+ resistance in popular culture and delves into how groundbreaking artists like Little Richard and David Bowie used their music and public personas not just to break taboos but to redefine the very concept of identity, carving out new spaces for self-expression, leaving a lasting impact on music and culture.
Savage’s place in the history of music journalism is firmly established, and his passion for music and its power to affect change has never waned. To this day he sees punk’s DIY ethos as still offering a framework for artists to create and express themselves on their terms, despite the overwhelming influence of corporate interests in the modern music industry.
“Punk was about doing things for yourself—if you want to say something, play an instrument, or write, then just do it. That’s the most important lesson it left us.” (Jon Savage)
Savage continues to write and contribute to publications like The Guardian and Mojo, offering fresh insights into the intersections of music, culture, and politics. His work remains vital in understanding the cultural forces shaping our world, whether through his writing, public lectures, or interviews.
In this episode, Savage reflects on the lasting influence of punk, the changing media landscape, and the ongoing impact of artists like Bowie and Little Richard in reshaping societal norms.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Neville Brody was told at art school that he had “no commercial potential.” Instead of conforming, he built a career on defying expectations, reshaping graphic design, typography, and branding in the process.
“You can’t be radical in every situation, but you can bring radical thinking into a commercial framework.” (Neville Brody)
From pioneering font design to creating some of the most distinctive record sleeves of the 1980s, Brody’s work has always operated at the intersection of rebellion and mass communication. His radical approach to typography at The Face helped define the look of a generation, blending punk’s raw energy with the emerging aesthetics of postmodernism.
But Brody has never been interested in nostalgia. In 2014, he founded Brody Associates, a creative studio dedicated to rethinking brand identity, design systems, and digital platforms.
A decade later, he continues to push forward, balancing experimental projects with strategic work for clients like Samsung, Coca-Cola, and The Times, while maintaining a deep commitment to questioning the role of design in an increasingly automated world.
In this episode, Brody discusses his influences, his belief in risk-taking, and why he left record sleeve design behind. He reflects on how punk shaped his creative philosophy, the tensions between commerce and radical thinking, and the challenges facing young designers today.
Four decades in, Neville Brody remains as restless as ever, challenging conventions, reshaping industries, and proving that design is not just about aesthetics but ideas, disruption, and the power to change culture.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Growing up in a small seaside town just north of Liverpool, artist Brendan Dawes was always determined to make something of himself. Leaving school at 16 with no formal qualifications, he found himself propelled forward by the rise of revolutionary computer technology and a passion for Acid House.
"The computer was like this amazing box where I could make creative things. I always wanted to make stuff in some form, back then it was music. But with computers, I thought, this is incredible. You could just type into it, and it would do things. It just spoke to me." (Brendan Dawes)
A self-taught coder, Dawes developed a unique approach to his work, leading him to opportunities worldwide. In 2004, he created Cinema Redux, a pioneering work that transformed an entire film into a single visual and earned a place in the Museum of Modern Art’s (MoMA) permanent collection in New York.
Never one to stand still, Dawes became a key figure in the rise of NFTs, with Black Mamba’s Revenge, an abstract work based on the final fight scene in Kill Bill Vol.1, that sold at auction within the first hour of its release in 2020.
This milestone marked a new evolution in his work leading him to collaborate with director Gary Hustwit, in 2024, on the groundbreaking documentary Eno, based on the extraordinary life of musician Brian Eno. The film, the first generative documentary ever shortlisted for an Academy Award, was hailed as a “revolutionary cinematic experience.”
In February 2025, always at the center of creative disruption, Dawes took part in Christie’s inaugural AI art auction in New York, a controversial event that divided the art world. While some saw it as an inevitable evolution of artistic practice, others condemned it as a fraudulent attempt to profit from AI-generated works trained on artists’ intellectual property without consent.
Always a true radical, Dawes continues to push the boundaries of contemporary art, seamlessly blending technology, data, and visual storytelling. Whether digital or physical, his work remains at the forefront of cultural upheaval, redefining what art can be in an era of constant transformation.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
DJ, producer, musician, and founder of one of the most influential independent record labels, Daniel Miller began his journey in 1976, just as punk was shaking Britain to its core. Returning to London that spring, he threw himself into the movement, drawn to its urgency, rebellion, and creative freedom.
Hearing The Ramones’ debut on John Peel’s radio show was a revelation, and solidified his love for music that defied convention. A few years later, inspired by the experimental sounds of Can and Faust, he recorded his first single as The Normal: Warm Leatherette, a cold, mechanical, dystopian anthem, which became an unintentional underground hit.
“The big saying at the time was, ‘All you need is a guitar and three chords.’ My thing was, three chords were far too many. You can just have one finger on a keyboard and still make an interesting sound. Which I thought was more punk than being in a traditional rock band.” (Daniel Miller)
After a short tour, he returned home to find a pile of demo tapes from an unknown artist named Fad Gadget on his doorstep. That moment sparked the birth of Mute Records, a record label that would redefine electronic and experimental music, and the rest is history.
A true maverick, Miller has never chased trends or commercial success over everything else, instead championing artists who push boundaries and the very definition of music. From the industrial provocations of Throbbing Gristle and Laibach to the groundbreaking synth-pop of Depeche Mode, Yazoo, and Erasure, his influence is woven into the fabric of modern music, and his pursuit of originality remains as relentless as ever.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
In 1984, industrial music legends Cabaret Voltaire released Sensoria on the Some Bizarre record label, the first single from their sixth album, Micro-Phonies. The song mixed driving beats and multicultural rhythms over a winding soundtrack and a hypnotic vocal.
The Cabs, as they were known, never sought fame in the traditional sense; instead, they just thought it was important for you to listen. For them how things were presented was just as important - believing it was about your takeaway from the experience, as a whole, that mattered most.
Peter Care, a pioneering filmmaker from southwest England, had been making films for the band since the 70s, yet the music video he made for Sensoria was one of the most requested videos on the MTV video charts for seven months and was subsequently procured by the Museum of Modern Art in New York. It was also voted the Best Video of the Year in 1985 by the LA Times and is considered the greatest “underground” music video of all time.
In this special episode of Destroy!" called Scene x Scene, we talk to film director, Peter Care, the "up and over" camera rig designer, Tony Hill, and Cabaret Voltaire cofounder Stephen Mallinder, about how the video was made.
-
#sexpistols #anarchy #1976 #destroy #destroypunkpodcast #punk #cabaretvoltaire
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
There’s an urban myth that OMD (Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark) were “discovered” by Lindsay Reade, the wife of Factory Records founder, Tony Wilson.
As a local Manchester celebrity and TV presenter, Wilson was often inundated with cassette tapes from bands wanting to get on one of his shows. He kept them all in a shopping bag in his car and would often throw the rejections away, allegedly.
As the story goes, Lindsay reached into the bag one day and played a tape by a “bunch of hairy shits from Liverpool.” Wilson said it was crap, Reade said it was a hit. It was Electricity by OMD.
Founded in 1978, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, have sold over 40 million records, and are considered “one of synth-pop’s most influential bands.” Its original members, Andy McCluskey, and Paul Humphreys, continue to perform at sold-out shows worldwide and write critically acclaimed songs to this day.
One of their biggest hits, If You Leave, was written in a day for John Hughes’s big 80s hit film, Pretty in Pink. It helped the band “break” America and also break into the hearts and minds of every teenage misfit and outcast.
“All the music in John’s movies was the soundtrack of his characters. They're not the jocks and the cheerleaders. They are the outsiders. And what do they listen to? They listen to English imports. And off the top of our heads, we wrote, If You Leave, in a day, and it was massive.” (Andy McCluskey)
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates. Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
The day Malcolm Garrett walked into Virgin Records in 1977 and bought Anarchy in the UK was a revelation. The Sex Pistols, and punk, were a modern manifestation of his Dadaist dream, and seeing them playing on TV that day changed his life.
From that moment on he knew he was destined to bring his artistic vision to the masses and went on to create some of the most daring and original work for multiple punk, post-punk, new wave, and new romantic bands in history: Magazine, Duran Duran, Simple Minds, and Culture Club, amongst many others. His cover for the Buzzcocks notorious single “Orgasm Addict”, is considered one of the most important record covers of that time.
Unafraid to mix high art with pop culture, his work also helped define the aesthetic of an era, creating unique visual identities that elevated the public image of each band he worked with. And, as the 80s saw the birth of MTV, his unique vision also helped them conquer the second “British invasion” of America, enabling them to cement a place in the hearts and minds of anyone who had just turned 16.
“In 1977, the rebellious ‘Dada’ movement that I was looking for suddenly walked through the door, and it was a band called the Sex Pistols. It was like a light switch. Click. That’s it. Today. I’m a punk from here on in.” (Malcolm Garrett)
Born and raised in Cheshire, on the outskirts of Manchester, England, his contrarian point of view and passion for design earned him an MBE in 2020. He is currently the creative director of Images & Co and continues to work with long-term business partner and Design Manchester co-director, Kasper de Graaf.
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates. Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Filmmaker and video director Peter Care has spent a lifetime reimagining his craft. In the early 1970s, inspired by documentary filmmakers such as Ken Loach and cinematic auteurs such as Kenneth Anger and Luis Buñuel, he started the Sheffield Independent Film Company, which grew to be the largest film production company outside of London.
Seeing a live performance by industrial music artists, Cabaret Voltaire, changed his career trajectory and started a long-term relationship with the band that began with Care’s short film, “Johnny Yesno.” His music video for their 1984 song “Sensoria,” was one of the most requested videos on the MTV video charts for 7 months. It was subsequently procured by the Museum of Modern Art, in New York, bringing him long-sought recognition for his unique approach to filmmaking.
“At the time, people wanted to move away from the norm of putting up with conventions and the deadening mediocrity that seemed to be happening with much of the film and TV you were seeing. That’s what I was trying to do with music videos, I was a bit of a rebel.” (Peter Care)
It also brought him to Los Angeles and work with Public Image Ltd, R.E.M., New Order, HBO, Jodi Foster, and Levi’s. He also directed films for the Santa Monica City Council as part of their residents’ Well-being program, which helped the council win a $1,000,000 prize from Michael Bloomberg’s Philanthropies’ Mayors Challenge.
His documentaries for Yo San University have also helped to highlight the school’s pioneering work in integrative medicine in treating poor communities across Southern California.
His first feature film, “The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys,” was voted Best First Feature Film at the Independent Spirit Awards in 2002. His music video for “Sensoria” was also voted the Best Video of the Year (1985) by the LA Times and is considered the greatest “underground” music video of all time. He also received six nominations for R.E.M.’s “Man on the Moon” video at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
At 17, inspired by the defiant spirit he saw in the various music magazines of the day, Anton Corbijn picked up his father’s camera and never looked back. By 1979, he was in London, capturing a photo of his beloved Joy Division at Lancaster Gate tube station. A year later, Ian Curtis’s death would transform the image into an icon, and cement Corbijn’s place in photography’s rock-n-roll hall of fame.
“ I like people finding my work somewhere, that’s what I always liked about magazines, you accidentally meet your work if you publish in magazines, and I’ve always liked that.”
Throughout his career, with a camera always as his cover, Corbijn has built countless profound relationships with artists and musicians of every kind and creative persuasion, capturing their essence through his raw, unfiltered reportage style. None are more profound than his 40-year collaboration with Depeche Mode, a deeply prolific relationship that began in 1986, which has propelled both Corbijn and the band into cult-like heroes.
Today, continuously pushing himself forward, his relentless vision and unwavering ambition have made him a pioneer in image-making and visual storytelling. From album covers to set design, and music videos to filmmaking, he is constantly pushing the boundaries of his craft, always inserting his unmistakable personality into every project and idea; leading him to fertile collaborations with legends like George Clooney, REM, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and U2, and establishing him as one of the most influential creators of the 20th century.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
The work of acclaimed narrative designer and world visionary, Alex McDowell, has probably touched every corner of our lives. Beginning with an early career at street-style magazine i-D, he quickly moved on to music videos for Depeche Mode and Iggy Pop, record covers for Siouxsie and the Banshees, as well as game design for the BBC, and continues to fall forward even today.
The incident that started it all was when he put on one of the first-ever live shows by the Sex Pistols at the Central School of Art in London, in 1975. This “transformative” moment has taken him from working with Vivienne Westwood to collaborating with David Fincher on his groundbreaking film Fight Club, as well as devising a window into the future with Steven Spielberg’s Minority Report.
“I'm always drawn to something that's going to be disruptive, and seeing the Sex Pistols on stage for the first time immediately reverberated. I’m here now because of that night.”
Never one to sit still, he also teaches World Building at the University of Southern California, encouraging students to imagine an uncharted and unknown future.
In 2006, McDowell was named Royal Designer for Industry by the RSA, a design society, and was appointed Visiting Artist at the MIT Media Lab. In April 2015, McDowell was awarded the BritWeek Business Innovation Award.
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Stephen Mallinder has been pushing the boundaries of music since he cofounded Cabaret Voltaire in 1973, long before punk even opened the door. The band’s influence has reached far and wide since those early revolutionary days inspiring many of the music industry’s most creative artists, including, Nine Inch Nails, and Depeche Mode, and helping set up musical “signposts” for house music, techno, and hip-hop to follow. “We were influenced as much by film and television as anything else. We saw ourselves as modernists, as people looking to the future. As part of the machinery of the modern world.”
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Peter Saville is arguably one of the 20th century’s most important artists. Growing up in 70s Manchester, inspired by the influence of punk, Saville seized the opportunity to change the world. Cofounder of legendary Factory Records, his groundbreaking design work for New Order and Joy Division inspired generations and influenced culture for decades.
"I saw my work as signposts, where I thought things were going, my work was not actually about music, the music was the pulse beat of the moment and I tried to make a visual analogy as I heard it.”
-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
On December 1st, 1976, the Sex Pistols appeared on English national television cursing and swearing obscenities. The “Bill Grundy incident,” riled a nation, incensed one man to destroy his TV, and inspired multiple generations of aspiring cultural revolutionaries to change the world.-
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
1970s England: societal decline, civil unrest, riots, striking miners, mountains of rubbish, mounting inflation, no power, a 3 day work-week, and no jobs - punk. -
Follow us on Instagram @destroypunkpodcast for the latest updates.
Or visit us online: https://destroypunkpodcast.com for transcripts, show notes, and more.
Our TOPPODCAST Picks 
