Stay ConnectedDeconstructor of Fun podcast is created by games professionals for games professionals. We explore the business side of the games industry with the goal of bringing listeners content that is relevant, insightful, and entertaining on a weekly basis.
Hosts:
Michail Katkoff www.linkedin.com/in/michailkatkoff/
Eric Kress www.linkedin.com/in/erickress/
Phillip Black www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-black-economist/
Jen Donahoe www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferdonahoe
Copyright: © Deconstructor of Fun
Everyone's telling you cohort financing is free money to scale. It's not, and the contract fine print is where that story falls apart.Josh Chandley (President & COO, Wildcard Games) sits down with Phil Mohr (CEO & Co-founder, Metica) and Martin Macmillan (Founder, Pollen Capital) to break down what cohort financing actually costs, who really takes the risk, and how founders keep getting burned by deals they don't fully understand. Martin lent almost $1B through Pollen VC with zero credit defaults over a decade. Phil looked at 40-50 games before Metica stopped writing new cohort deals altogether. Between them, they unpack the math the sales guys don't want you to run.Topics Covered:• UA financing vs cohort financing• Why receivables lending scaled down• The 80/20 mechanics of a cohort deal• Who actually takes the risk on a cohort• Cross-collateralization and disguised liens• What makes a good candidate for financing• Breakeven windows and LTV curve shape• The real annualized cost of cohort financing• How financing cost raises your effective CPI• Why finance and UA teams don't align• Getting free debt from your ad networks• Red flags in cohort financing contracts• What happens when a cohort underperforms• Debt plus equity hybrid dealsCHAPTERS: 00:00 Cohort Financing Hype00:36 Meet the Experts02:20 UA Financing Explained03:45 Receivables vs Cohorts05:20 How Cohort Deals Work09:04 Hidden Risks and Recourse11:06 Contract Traps to Watch15:39 Who Qualifies for Funding17:49 Payback Windows Sweet Spot18:54 LTV Curve and Game Types22:45 True Cost and IRR Math29:19 Financing Cost in UA Bids32:15 Data Truth and Real-Time Stops36:09 Cohort Risk And Timing37:01 Free Credit From Ad Networks38:40 Why Credit Lines Aren’t Enough43:42 VC Versus Lender Mindset47:05 Questions For Cohort Lenders53:10 Bad Terms And Red Flags56:40 Evolving Financing Stack59:25 Exit Clauses And Flexibility01:02:42 Modeling Downside Scenarios01:07:54 Debt Plus Equity Strategy01:10:18 Final Advice And Wrap Up
In March 2025, Jon Bellamy became CEO of Jagex and Alexis Bonte became CEO of Stillfront. Both inherited companies with legacy, scale, and a long list of things that needed to go. This episode is about what actually happens in a games industry CEO's first 100 days.Timestamps00:00 - The first 100 days05:24 - Knowing the company09:15 - Cultural shift15:16 - Choosing focus19:33 - Public versus private24:52 - Board communication30:44 - Evaluating leaders36:15 - Head coach mode39:17 - Three success markers
Crew breaks down another packed week in games. Roblox faces mounting pressure over child safety as Congress launches an investigation, Apple rewrites its EU App Store economics while Germany forces changes to ATT, and Netflix Games keeps shrinking with two more studio closures. Meanwhile, Webtoon makes a $100 million bet on gaming, Devolver Digital heads for the exits after a brutal public-market run, and Mishka goes deep on Voodoo’s latest hybrid-casual hit. Topics Covered:• Roblox’s congressional investigation and growing child-safety pressure• Roblox’s Discord problem • What higher opt-in rates could mean for Meta and mobile UA • Apple’s new EU App Store fee structure• Webtoon buying up to 60% of RI Games Holdings • Netflix Games closing Night School Studio and Moonlit • Devolver Digital delisting after its stock fell roughly 97% • Castle Crushers, Voodoo’s hybrid-casual formula and its path toward a $100M run rate • What Voodoo’s evolution says about the French hyper-casual ecosystem• Kingdom Hearts’ new animated series and Kingdom Hearts IV targeting late 2027
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome and Hosts
01:02 Episode Agenda Preview
02:37 Jury Duty and Snake Heroics
04:03 Seattle SLICE Conference Plug
04:48 Mishka Updates and Events
06:24 Corrections on Turkey Funding
09:21 Roblox Under Investigation
14:03 Roblox Safety Measures Debate
21:13 ATT Changes in Germany
27:18 EU App Store Fee Overhaul
36:56 Markets and Monetization
37:29 Webtoon Buys Game Studio
40:07 Funding and UA Reality
43:35 Mid Market Myth Busting
46:44 Transmedia LTV Strategy
49:36 Netflix Games Retrenchment
54:01 Devolver Delisting Lessons
56:32 Castle Crushers Deep Dive
01:01:11 Voodoo and France Squeeze
01:06:14 Wrap and Next Week
Jen sits down with WEBTOON and Square Enix to break down a channel that reaches mobile, PC, and console at once.UA is saturated and everyone is hunting for new reach. WEBTOON has 160 million MAU, about 90% under 34, and roughly 69% of its readers play games across all three platforms. Christine Yu (WEBTOON) and Melanie Gordon (Square Enix) walk through how the Visions of Mana and Dragon Quest VII Reimagined campaigns actually came together, what the branded epilogue format is, how long these collabs take, and how the Coin Hunter offerwall is driving 10,000 verified Steam wishlist adds a week.Topics Covered:• The vertical scroll format and why Gen Z never touched a comic book• 160M MAU and how WEBTOON monetizes like a free to play game• $2.7B paid out to creators and 124,000 new episodes a day• Creators as influencers and why the comment section matters• The branded epilogue and the Visions of Mana collab results• Dragon Quest VII Reimagined and the Tabletop partnership• Timelines, approvals, and what marketers need to bring to the table• Licensing collab creative for paid media, owned social, and UA• Coin Hunter, the offerwall, and pay per verified Steam wishlist• Where WEBTOON sits in the funnel and why ROAS is the wrong first questionCHAPTERS:01:33 — What Is WEBTOON04:21 — Mel's Fan Origin Story06:26 — WEBTOON as an IP Engine09:17 — Creators as Influencers11:24 — Turning Fandom Into a Marketing Channel13:14 — Case Study: Visions of Mana x The Greatest Estate Developer15:20 — Inside the Collab Process17:33 — Western Market Performance20:00 — Case Study: Dragon Quest VII Reimagined x Tabletop24:07 — Campaign Types and Timelines27:32 — Repurposing Collab Content for UA/Social30:18 — What Makes It Feel Authentic (Not Cheesy)32:00 — Performance, ROAS, and Funnel Placement34:00 — Beyond Anime: Genre and Demographic Diversity37:08 — Audience Demographics38:00 — Lower-Funnel Product: Coin Hunter / Steam Wishlist41:00 — What's Next & Wrap-Up Wishlist 42:00 — Recap and Closing (Brandformance)
Affan Butt has advised on 110+ gaming M&A deals worth $40 billion. He breaks down how game studios actually get sold, what acquirers pay for, and why earnouts wreck founders.
We go through a studio acquisition from the founder's side of the table. How M&A processes really start, what due diligence looks like, why inbound corp dev interest is not validation, how bidding wars backfire, and the way earnout structures quietly turn against the people who signed them.
0:00 Loom Games sale to Scopely3:21 What creates FOMO in a deal10:58 Investment banker in gaming 21:14 Supercell story 26:26 Peak Games story 39:03 Private equity in gaming 42:12 Deal timelines48:21 Due diligence53:54 When to say no to a sale 68:10 Why deals fail74:20 Earnouts and incentives86:28 The changing exit landscape94:35 Where the gaming cycle is now
Crew breaks down a packed week in mobile and games. AppLovin's stock craters despite the SEC closing its inquiry with no action, Unity sells Supersonic to Tripledot for a shockingly low $40 million, and Take-Two's GTA VI presales are on fire even as its mobile business slows. Topics Covered:• AppLovin's Q2 earnings and stock drop despite growth• Unity's Vector model closing the gap with AppLovin• Unity selling Supersonic to Tripledot for $40M• Take-Two's Q2 earnings, Zynga portfolio trends and GTA VI presales• GTA VI's Netflix trailer exclusive• Blizzard's leaked internal email and its quiet turnaround• Ubisoft Barcelona's layoffs and the birth of Puzzle Mage• Royal Smash and the rise of cannon physics puzzlesCHAPTERS:02:06 Spider-Man numbers debate03:23 Why Spider-Man wins03:53 Odyssey movie review05:28 Seattle roundtable recap07:34 Audience Qs and Roblox08:55 Corrections and Royal Match12:08 AppLovin earnings breakdown18:52 Unity Vector and D2827:14 Unity sells Supersonic34:21 Unity Supersonic Bargain35:09 Take Two Bookings Breakdown36:19 Zynga Portfolio Reality Check39:07 Old Games vs New Hits46:36 GTA VI Preorders and Netflix49:41 Blizzard Comeback Email53:31 Ubisoft Barcelona Fallout56:05 Royal Smash New Subgenre01:00:45 Farm Team and Monetization01:08:51 Wrap Up and Banter
Emmanuel De Maistre didn’t build Scenario by choosing between Silicon Valley ambition and European pragmatism. He learned to use both.In this conversation, the Scenario founder breaks down what years of building in the US taught him about ambition, failure, and venture-scale thinking, and why European founders often bring the grounding that Silicon Valley lacks. We also get into what AI adoption actually looks like inside top game studios, why buying tools rarely translates into real usage, what happens to creative teams when AI enters production, and why today’s AI economics may be hiding problems that surface when cheap tokens disappear.This is a conversation about AI, gaming, and startup culture from a founder who has already learned what happens when growth outruns fundamentals. Fewer than 20 people, near-zero customer churn, profitable before a Series A. No “AI will replace everyone” predictions, no ARR theater. Just a founder making the case that the best operators combine American ambition with European grounding.
Xbox prices in Europe jumped as much as 50%, and the console math now writes itself.The crew digs into a rough week for hardware and a strange one for puzzle. PS5 is suddenly the obvious pick while a global RAM crunch threatens the entire next console cycle. Capcom is printing money off seven-year-old games. Roblox got its stock cut 30% after guiding bookings down, and the fight over its algorithm change turns into a bigger argument about platform health versus shareholder duty. Then Phil and Kress go to war over whether Merge-2 is real innovation or the same mechanic in a new skin, while it quietly overtakes Match on downloads for the first time.Topics Covered:• Xbox price hikes of 30 to 50% across Europe• Why PS5 is now the obvious console pick this generation• The RAM crunch that could break the next console cycle• Capcom's back catalog driving 90% of unit sales• Roblox stock crashing 30% after earnings• Retention thresholds and the collapse of viral hits• What the child torture games actually are• Roblox platform health vs fiduciary duty• Japan slowly opening up to foreign capital• Merge-2 climbing to 20% of the US puzzle market• Merge downloads overtaking Match for the first time• Whether Merge is innovation or reskinned mechanics• China flooding UA channels and taking Western shareCHAPTERS: 00:00 Cold Open Introductions00:45 Headlines And Banter02:48 EA Deal Layoff Rumors03:51 Creator Tools And Events07:22 Netflix FIFA Studio Shutdown10:39 Sony Earnings Xbox Prices13:33 Memory Crunch Console Future20:22 Capcom Catalog Dominance27:43 Roblox Earnings Slump35:17 Algorithm Chaos Fallout37:08 Retention Threshold Reality40:00 Child Torture Games Explained42:41 Profit vs Platform Health44:37 Valuation and Downside Risk47:38 Scopely Bets on Japan52:16 Merge 2 Takes Over Puzzle54:46 Is Merge Actually Innovation56:39 Meta Systems Drive Growth01:05:04 China Floods UA Channels01:06:17 Wrap Up and Goodbye
After years of saying not yet, Sensor Tower finally estimated mobile ad revenue, and the number is $12 billion for 2025.Josh Chandley and Sensor Tower's lead gaming insights analyst Sam walk through how the estimates were built and why $12 billion is a conservative floor. We get into why puzzle pulls more than half of all gaming ad revenue, how AppLovin keeps eating share while smaller networks shrink, the non-gaming advertisers like Temu, Shein, and finance apps flooding into gaming inventory, and why AP-focused hybrids out-earn ad-first hybrids by 4x.CHAPTERS: 00:00 Why Ads Were Opaque01:07 How Sensor Tower Models Ads02:31 The 12 Billion Headline04:00 Coverage Countries Networks06:07 Ads Versus IAP D2C08:52 Non Gaming Demand Surge12:55 Network Share Winners15:15 AppLovin Take Rate Debate19:04 Puzzle Dominates Ad Revenue26:17 Hybrid Casual Economics30:25 Studio Strategy And Wrap
The crew breaks down Sensor Tower's big H1 2026 report, digs into why downloads keep falling while nobody seems to want new games, and asks whether ad revenue was ever going to save anyone. Plus a Warframe live service masterclass and the arrow craze that Kress would very much like everyone to stop talking about.Topics Covered:• Disney Solitaire cannibalizing Solitaire Grand Harvest • Where the diligence went on the SuperPlay deal and who is left • Washington State suing Playtika and Aristocrat over social casino• Sensor Tower H1 2026 with downloads down 12% • The 4X surge stalling out while puzzle keeps compounding• The D2C debate and whether the market ishealthier than it looks• AppLovin and AdMob running two-thirds of gaming ad revenue and what that consolidation does to CPIs• Why the top ad revenue games are smaller than anyone expected• Warframe as the live service masterclass Destiny never pulled offCHAPTERS:00:00 – Intro & welcome (Jen, Kress, Phil, Mishka)01:00 – Mishka's Greece trip & DoF event updates (Seattle Roundtables, Gamescom, Grand Slam, Supper Club)08:00 – Playtika update: Solitaire Grand Harvest cannibalized by Disney Solitaire12:00 – M&A Masterclass callback (Chris Petrarca) & licensing math on Disney deal14:00 – Washington State's gambling lawsuit vs. Playtika — social casino legal risk17:00 – Sensor Tower H1 2026 report: overview & app discovery is "broken"20:00 – Direct-to-consumer (D2C) web shops: how big is the impact really?23:00 – D2C by genre: 4X, social casino, Marvel Strike Force example25:00 – Genre trends: strategy down, puzzle up, Block Blast highlight26:00 – The "Arrow" hyper-casual craze — Block Blast install decline29:00 – UA costs spiking: ad spend up, downloads down30:00 – AppLovin & AdMob's growing duopoly over UA33:00 – Social casino's steepest genre decline & D2C revenue shift36:00 – Top publishers by ad revenue (King, Easy Brain, Huuuge)39:00 – Sensor Tower report wrap-up & praise42:00 – Warframe/Digital Extremes: Destiny comparison & live-service execution44:00 – Warframe monetization model breakdown45:00 – Digital Extremes' mobile SKU built with Finland's Nitro Games46:00 – Warframe mobile growth numbers (PC halo effect)48:00 – Squad RPG/gacha mechanics critique — mobile "solved this years ago"50:00 – Why no Western studio has cracked mobile shooters (Fortnite, Roblox Rivals)51:00 – Warframe's marketing-driven themed content drops52:00 – Shoutout: Christopher Dring's podcast52:00 – Outro & next week preview (Castle Clashers, Capcom)
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