Decoder with Nilay Patel

Latest Episodes:

Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman says conversational AI is the next web browser Dec 09, 2024

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. Mustafa is a fascinating character in the world of AI — he’s been in and out of some pivotal companies like DeepMind, which he cofounded, and Google. He landed at Microsoft through a unique not-quite-acquisition deal of his latest startup, Inflection AI.

As CEO of Microsoft AI, Mustafa now oversees all of its consumer AI products, including the Copilot app, Bing, and even the Edge browser and MSN — two core components of the web experience that feel like they’re radically changing in a world of AI. The company has also a unique relationship with OpenAI, one that’s grown more complicated of late. That’s a lot of Decoder bait, and we really get into it.

Links:

Google DeepMind co-founder joins Microsoft as CEO of its new AI division | The Verge
This is Big Tech’s playbook for swallowing the AI industry | Command Line
The new AI deal: buy everything but the company | NYT
Sam Altman lowers the bar for AGI | The Verge
OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching ‘AGI’ clause with Microsoft | FT
Microsoft needs to win back trust | The Verge
Microsoft’s AI boss thinks it’s okay to steal content if it’s on the open web | The Verge
Read Microsoft’s optimistic memo about the future of AI companions | The Verge
Microsoft gives Copilot a voice and vision in its biggest redesign yet | The Verge
How Microsoft is thinking about the future of Copilot and AI hardware | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24078862

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AI is a money pit — here’s why investors don’t mind Dec 05, 2024

Show notes

AI investment is massive, but AI profits are not — and yet investors seem confident massive AI fundraising will one day translate into sizable AI profits. To break it down, Verge Deputy Editor Alex Heath guest hosts this episode of Decoder featuring Menlo Ventures partner Tim Tully and AirStreet Capital founder Nathan Benaich.

Links:

2024: The State of Generative AI in the Enterprise | Menlo Ventures
State of AI Report | Nathan Benaich
AI Index Report 2024 | Stanford HAL
How companies are spending on AI right now | Tech Brew
OpenAI Is growing fast and burning through piles of money | NYT
Amazon to invest another $4 billion in OpenAI rival Anthropic | The Verge
Agents are the future AI companies promise — and desperately need | The Verge
Anthropic’s latest AI update can use a computer on its own | The Verge
OpenAI reportedly plans to launch an AI agent early next year | The Verge
Is AI hitting a wall? | Command Line

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rewind: Bluesky CEO Jay Graber on the future of federated social media Dec 02, 2024

Show notes

Bluesky has really taken off since the election, and since the Decoder team took some time off for Thanksgiving break, we felt it was a great time to bring back the interview we did earlier this year with Jay Graber, the CEO of Bluesky, the upstart competitor to Meta’s Threads and the platform formerly known as Twitter.

At the time, Bluesky was a pretty small platform. It had just reached 5 million users when Jay and I spoke. But since the election, Bluesky’s growth has absolutely skyrocketed to more than 20 million users, and it's starting to put real competitive pressure on Threads at the feature level. As Bluesky really ramps up, it seemed like a great time to engage with some of the core questions behind its design and see if Jay and her team can keep it up.

Links:

Twitter’s heir apparent isn’t X or Threads — it’s Bluesky | The Verge
Bluesky now has more than 20 million users | The Verge
Bluesky moves deeper into moderation hell | The Verge
Twitter is funding research into a decentralized version of its platform | The Verge
Bluesky built a decentralized protocol for Twitter | The Verge
The fediverse, explained | The Verge
Bluesky showed everyone’s ass | The Verge
Can ActivityPub save the internet? | The Verge
Bluesky snags former Twitter/X Trust & Safety exec cut by Musk | TechCrunch
Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech — Mike Masnick

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23872913

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GoDaddy CEO Aman Bhutani on the enduring power of the website Nov 25, 2024

Show notes

I spoke with GoDaddy CEO Aman Bhutani live on stage last week at an event hosted by Alix Partners in Palo Alto. GoDaddy is one of those companies that feels tied to an earlier era, but Aman’s been CEO since 2019, and he’s been building out what he calls adjacencies.

The business of the web has really changed in the past few years: the walled-garden, social network era really took over in the past decade, and now huge changes to Google Search and the addition of generative AI have really put a massive strain on the very foundations of the open web. So I started out by asking Aman the question I’ve asked so many other guests on Decoder in the past year: What is the point of a website in 2024?

Links:

If GoDaddy can turn the corner on sexism, who can’t? | New York Times (2017)
Google Zero is here – now what? | Decoder
Five for the Future – GoDaddy | WordPress.org
2024 is shaping up to be the smallest Black Friday ever | GoDaddy
GoDaddy’s mission to get entrepreneurs up and running fast | Forbes
GoDaddy launches a suite of AI tools for small businesses | Fast Company
Why make a website? Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena has ideas | Decoder
Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami on why the web isn’t dying after all | Decoder
How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird | Decoder
Intuit CEO Sasan Goodarzi | Decoder

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24069405

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Travis Larchuck and Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Remix: Google Zero is here — now what? Nov 21, 2024

Show notes

For nearly 20 years now, the web has been Google’s platform; we’ve all just lived on it. Google is constantly changing that platform — it launched another attempt to combat ‘parasite SEO’ just this week — and not all of those changes have worked well.

Earlier this year I talked to a lot of people who have built on that platform. For a lot of small businesses and content creators, that’s suddenly not stable anymore. The number one question I have for anyone building things on someone else’s platform is: What are you going to do when that platform changes the rules?

Links:

Google is cracking down on sites publishing parasite SEO content | The Verge
How Google is killing independent sites like ours |HouseFresh
HouseFresh has virtually disappeared from Google results. Now what? | HouseFresh
Google Is Killing Retro Dodo & Other Independent Sites | Retro Dodo
Google CEO Sundar Pichai on AI-powered search and the future of the web | The Verge
Will AI break the internet? Or save it? | The New York Times
The biggest findings in the Google Search leak | The Verge
Mountain Weekly News
Telly Visions
E-ride Hero
That Fit Friend

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Will the world end before I can retire? Nov 18, 2024

Show notes

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay — Decoder is on a short break this week. We’ll be back with a special live interview episode on Monday of next week, and then regular programming will resume in December. I’m very excited for what we have coming up on the schedule.

But while we’re out, we’d like to highlight a great episode of a new podcast from our friends over at Vox called Explain It To Me. On this episode, host Jonquilyn Hill and her team tackle a decision that looms large for a lot of young people in America: How and when should you start saving for retirement — and will it even matter in a future of big, often scary uncertainties about work in the age of AI and the climate crisis?

Links:

Explain It To Me | Apple Podcasts
Will the world end before I can retire? | Vox
Vox launches Explain It to Me franchise to answer audience questions | Explain It To Me
The doomers are wrong about humanity’s future — and its past | Vox
Against doomerism | Vox
End Times: A Brief Guide to the End of the World | Bryan Walsh
Here's how self-made millionaire Vivian Tu created wealth | CNBC

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Trump’s second term could be bad for EVs, but great for Tesla Nov 14, 2024

Show notes

Today we’re talking about Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and Tesla — and I have to say, it feels like the first of many episodes about these three characters that we’ll be doing over the course of the next four years. Because when Elon used his wealth and influence to help Trump get elected, he also bought himself a seat at the president-elect’s inner circle. But what does the world’s richest person really want in return?

And how is the CEO of an electric car company, an outspoken advocate for combating climate change, going to square his support for Trump and a Republican policy agenda centered on climate change denial? Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins joins me this week to make sense of it all, and to figure out how Elon and Tesla may still benefit, even if Trump's climate policy reversals and tariffs lay waste to the auto industry.

Links:

What does Trump’s election mean for EVs, Tesla, and Elon Musk? | The Verge
This election will decide what kind of car you’ll buy | The Verge
Trump says Musk will lead ‘DOGE’ office to cut ‘wasteful’ government spending | The Verge
Elon Musk attends Trump's first post-election meeting with House Republicans | CNBC
At Mar-a-Lago, ‘Uncle’ Elon Musk puts his imprint on the Trump transition | NYT
Musk believes in global warming. Trump does not. Will that change? | NYT
Elon Musk helped elect Trump? What does he expect in return? | NYT
With ready orders and an energy czar, Trump plots pivot to fossil fuels | NYT
Tesla hits $1 trillion market value as Musk-backed Trump win fans optimism | Reuters
Trump’s return dims outlook for Chinese EV makers amid tariff threats | SCMP

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr. Nov 11, 2024

Show notes

Harvey Mason, Jr is CEO of the Recording Academy, the nonprofit organization most famous for the Grammy Awards. We spoke right before this year's Grammy nominations came out, and you'll hear us talk a whole lot about the changes he's tried to make with how the awarding membership works.

I always say to watch what’s happening to the music industry because it’s a preview into what will happen to every other creative industry five years later. My chat with Harvey really drove the point home: AI, diversity, streaming distribution... it's all here, and all the tensions that come with.

Links:

2025 Grammy nominations: The complete list | NPR
The Grammys Move From CBS To Disney In Major 10-Year Deal | Deadline
Recording Academy boots Grammy voters | Los Angeles Times
Chappell Roan and the problem with fandom | Vox
Grammys CEO: Music that contains AI-created elements is eligible | AP News
Deborah Dugan Grammys Controversy: What to Know | Time
For Taylor Swift, the Future of Music Is a Love Story | Wall Street Journal (2014)
AI is on a collision course with music | Decoder
Elvis Costello defends Olivia Rodrigo over ‘Brutal’ plagiarism claim | BBC
Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen thinks AI is the future | Decoder

Transcript:

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Return-to-office mandates are more than "backdoor layoffs" Nov 07, 2024

Show notes

Today, we’re talking about work. Specifically, where we work, how our expectations of working remotely were radically changed by the pandemic, and how those expectations feel like they’re on the verge of changing yet again. For many people, the pendulum has swung wildly between working fully remote and now a push to return to the office from their bosses, and there are a lot of theories about what might really be motivating big companies to try and bring everyone back.

To explain it, I caught up with two experts on the subject: Stephan Meier, a professor of business strategy at Columbia Business School, and Jessica Kriegel, the chief strategy officer at workplace culture consultancy Culture Partners. We dive into what’s been happening to the nature of work today, and whether Amazon, which just announced a major return to the office five days a week, is part of a bigger trend.

Links:

Amazon is making its employees come back to the office five days a week | The Verge
Amazon CEO denies 5-day office mandate is a ‘backdoor layoff’ | CNBC
Bob Iger tells Disney employees they must return to the office four days a week | CNBC
A quarter of bosses admit return-to-office mandates meant to make staff quit | Fortune
More Americans now prefer hybrid over fully remote work, survey finds | Axios
Google tells staff: stay productive and we’ll stay flexible | BI
The list of major companies requiring employees to return to the office | BI
Thinking Inside the Box: Why Virtual Meetings Generate Fewer Ideas | Columbia
Duolingo CEO Luis von Ahn wants you addicted to learning | Decoder
Sundar Pichai on managing Google through the pandemic | Vergecast

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why GM ditched CarPlay, with software boss Baris Cetinok Nov 04, 2024

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Baris Cetinok, who is in charge of all the software in the cars that GM makes, which is a lot of cars. And if you’ve been following any of the drama in the world of car software, you know it also means Baris is the guy who has to defend GM’s decision to drop Apple CarPlay and Android Auto from most of its cars, especially EVs.

I’ve had versions of this conversation with the CEOs of car companies before, but Baris is in charge of actually building this stuff. So we really got into the weeds here on what this looks like, the major trade-offs, and why he thinks it’s ultimately the right path for GM.

Links:

GM names new leaders of software organization | The Detroit News
GM is cutting off access to Apple CarPlay & Android Auto for its future EVs | The Verge
Will GM Regret Kicking Apple CarPlay off the Dashboard? | Bloomberg
Rivian CEO: CarPlay isn’t going to happen | Decoder
Volvo CEO thinks dropping CarPlay is a mistake | Decoder
GM Ultifi software platform will roll out in 2023 | The Verge
Android Auto vs. Android Automotive vs. Google Automotive Services | Android Police
GM plans another big Super Cruise hands-free expansion | The Verge
GM will start making money on EVs this year | The Verge
How GM plans to beat Google, Apple at car software | Motor Trend