Decoder with Nilay Patel

Latest Episodes:

Why Elon Musk wants to sell you cell service Oct 17, 2026

Show notes

My guest today is Walter Piecyk, a telecom analyst at LightShed Partners, and we’re discussing SpaceX’s plan to become a major wireless carrier. Last week, the company agreed to buy a big chunk of low-band spectrum in its bid to build “the world’s most advanced mobile network.”

So I wanted to dig into whether SpaceX can pull this off, why Walt thinks the existing telecoms have fumbled their response to Starlink’s growing threat, and what happens when Elon Musk’s rocket company jumps headfirst into a business everyone loves to hate.

Links:

SpaceX announces plan to become a ‘major mobile carrier’ | The Verge
SpaceX has a plan. Do the telcos? | LightShed Partners
EchoStar offloads satellite spectrum to SpaceX for $17 billion | The Verge
FCC Grants SpaceX Approval for 15,000 Direct-to-Device Satellites | Via Satellite
AT&T CEO says Elon Musk's SpaceX phone strategy not "viable" | Axios
SpaceX Sends Telecom Providers a Shot Across the Bow | WSJ
Verizon: No to an MVNO with Starlink | Fierce Network

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benn Jordan thinks the surveillance problem is much bigger than Flock Oct 15, 2026

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Benn Jordan, musician, YouTuber, researcher, and investigative journalist. In the last couple of years, Benn has become a high-profile face in the creator and media spaces for his work investigating Flock Safety, the maker of automatic license plate readers and the software that powers them.

Benn recently testified in front of Congress at a hearing dedicated to Flock and other ALPR systems. So of course I wanted to dig into all of that with Benn, not just because of his role as a Flock critic, but because he’s also become in some ways the face of a new front in the broader debate about surveillance and privacy.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

Benn Jordan testifies in front of Senate | Benn Jordan (YouTube)
Flock values their privacy. Oh well | Benn Jordan (YouTube)
We Hacked Flock Safety Cameras in under 30 Seconds | Benn Jordan (YouTube)
Lawmakers introduce multiple laws to curb Flock | 404 Media
The fight over Flock and other ALPRs | The Verge
Sanders, AOC, Merkley propose bill to ban Flock cameras | Politico
Cities terminate Flock contracts at record pace in August | Ars Technica
Flock to cut several hundred jobs amid backlash | Reuters

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rewind: Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman’s ‘unconstrained’ relationship with the truth Oct 12, 2026

Show notes

Hey everybody, it’s Nilay. We’re off today for the holiday, and we’ll be back this Thursday with new episodes. In the meantime, we wanted to revisit a conversation from earlier this year I had with investigative journalist and New Yorker contributor Ronan Farrow, all about the in-depth feature on OpenAI CEO Sam Altman he co-authored with Andrew Marantz.

The conversation holds up remarkably well, and I think it tells us a lot about the current moment, as calls for meaningful federal AI oversight have ground to a halt yet again. Enjoy.

Links:

Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? | The New Yorker
Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman’s ‘unconstrained’ relationship with the truth | Decoder
Does AI need an antitrust exemption so it doesn’t kill everyone? | Decoder
Inside the suddenly explosive world of AI safety | The Verge
Here’s what AI leaders are saying about Trump’s new safety plan | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. The show is edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Another billionaire thinks he can fix Warner Bros. Oct 10, 2026

Show notes

Acquiring Warner Bros. never goes well for anyone. AOL failed, AT&T failed, and Discovery failed — although it did succeed in flipping the assets to David Ellison’s Skydance.

So I’m talking to Peter Kafka, Business Insider chief correspondent and host of Channels, to see if Skydance has a chance at succeeding where nobody else has yet. Spoiler alert: Peter doesn’t think Skydance has a clear business plan, either. But he’s got some really good guesses about what might come next.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

CNN boss remains as Paramount, WBD merge into Skydance | The Verge
Skydance CEOs: Layoffs will be coming | Variety
Ynon Kriez, the new Skydance co-CEO | Business Insider
Skydance sets leadership across games, experiences | Variety
Paramount settles lawsuit blocking $110B WBD merger | The Verge
Larry Ellison’s big dumb gift to his large adult son | The Verge
Weiss’ ratings wipeout | Status

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win her.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

OpenAI has a Muse problem Oct 08, 2026

Show notes

My guest today is Hayden Field, The Verge’s senior AI reporter, and we're discussing the new wave of consumer friendly AI agents. AI enthusiasts have been using agents for a minute now, but the launch of Meta’s Muse, OpenAI’s Dots, and XAI’s Grok Bot has brought easy to use agents to millions.

Muse, notably, is free, while Dots is not, and you’ll hear Hayden and me get into why Meta, which still doesn't have a frontier model of its own, might have a meaningful edge here because it's much better at making and distributing consumer products. And wrapped up in this heated agent race are a lot of really big ideas — about AI capability, privacy, and trust.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

OpenAI’s new agent is a shot at Meta — but can it compete with free? | The Verge
The AI Tamagotchis are coming | The Verge
Muse escapes containment | 404 Media
Meta’s Muse AI sent a YouTuber’s address to a stranger | The Verge
It’s sinister that Meta’s Muse AI mascot is so cute | The Verge
Muse sure looks a lot like OpenClaw | The Verge

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win here.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time Oct 05, 2026

Show notes

California Sen. Adam Schiff sits on a bunch of the committees that do tech and AI oversight, so I really wanted to ask him about how we might regulate anything related to the tech industry at this moment in time.

He started our conversation by talking about the self-dealing and corruption present all through our politics now — right against the backdrop of President Trump gathering AI CEOs to the White House to pinky-swear they'll try to keep AI safe.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge.⁠

Links:

How tech will self-police AI safety under Trump deal | The Verge
Supreme Court ruling kneecaps federal regulators | The Verge
Does AI need an antitrust exemption so it doesn’t kill everyone? | Decoder
Flock, Axon dodge Senate hearing | CNBC
Trump admin illegally blacklisted Anthropic, court rules | The Verge

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win here.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The AI warnings are getting louder Oct 03, 2026

Show notes

Hey everybody, it’s Nilay. We’ve got a little bonus drop for you today — I was recently interviewed about AI safety by Shumita Basu for Apple News In Conversation, and I enjoyed the conversation so much I asked if we could share it with you all.

We’ve actually got a few bonus drops coming up this month; we’ve been having a lot of great conversations lately, and we want to get them out to you on the news cycle. And of course, nothing is moving as fast as the AI safety news cycle. So enjoy this one, and we’ll see you next time.

Links:

Apple News In Conversation | Apple Podcasts
Inside the suddenly explosive world of AI safety | The Verge
Here’s what AI leaders are saying about Trump’s new safety plan | The Verge
One company is at the center of a wave of rogue AI attacks | The Verge
Microsoft AI CEO says AI threats are real, and Anthropic is making it worse | Decoder
Does AI need an antitrust exemption so it doesn’t kill everyone? | Decoder

Subscribe to The Verge⁠ to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. The show is edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Utah locals fought Kevin O'Leary's AI data center Oct 01, 2026

Show notes

Today I’m talking with Josh Dzieza, a longtime features writer here at The Verge, about a massive data center in Utah that does not exist, might never exist, and yet has already completely reshaped the politics of the entire state.

Josh just published a major feature this week on the struggling Stratos data center project in Utah backed by Shark Tank star Kevin O’Leary. So I invited Josh on the show to discuss what’s happening inside the AI industry’s infrastructure boom, inside the bipartisan backlash to data centers, and how the tech industry is running into the one obstacle it can’t seem to spend its way out of: local democracy.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠.

Links:

The People of Utah vs. Kevin O'Leary | The Verge
Adams — burdened by data center fallout — ousted by voters | Salt Lake Tribune
‘Shark Tank’ star sued by opponents he claimed were foreign agents| NYT
Fox News apologizes for airing O’Leary claims about data centers | The Hill
Kevin O’Leary agrees to downsize massive Utah data center | The Verge
The biggest data center ever is becoming a huge problem in Utah | The Verge
America's data center future is Loudoun County's past | The Verge
The left and right agree on one thing: no data centers | Decoder

Decoder is a Signal Awards finalist in the Business category! You can vote to help us win ⁠here⁠.

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The SaaSpocalypse that wasn't, with Atlassian's CEO Sep 28, 2026

Show notes

My guest today is Mike Cannon-Brookes, who is co-founder and CEO of Atlassian. Atlassian is one of those companies that every other company runs on — it makes important platform tools like Jira and Trello. This means Atlassian is also right in the middle of the way AI is changing how all these companies work.

Or, if you buy the idea of the so-called SaaSpocalypse, AI might just build all of these tools for you, destroying this entire category of businesses. Obviously, Mike had a lot of thoughts pushing back on this narrative, so we spent time really digging in and talking through what AI is doing to enterprise software.

Links:

How Australia became the test bed for tech regulation | Decoder (2021)
Building a $45B company far from Silicon Valley’s ‘froth and bubbles’ | Semafor
Atlassian CEO Mike Cannon-Brookes on Atlassian and AI | Stratechery
How Atlassian shook off the 'SaaSpocalypse' for a big rally | IBD
Atlassian acquires The Browser Company, maker of the Arc browser | The Verge
Atlassian Co-CEO resigns, leaving Cannon-Brookes as sole chief | Bloomberg
Atlassian cuts 1,600 jobs amid AI push | Forbes

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinde

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can Cloudflare save the web from AI? Sep 26, 2026

Show notes

Cloudflare discovered in June that bots already make up more than half of internet traffic — and CEO Matthew Prince says that bots could outnumber humans a thousand to one within five years.

That's a huge change to the internet, and if the web is going to keep existing, it needs a huge change to its business model. Can Cloudflare use its place in the ecosystem to direct the money back to the people who make content?

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

How I choose which Cloudflare employees to replace with AI | Wall Street Journal
Why Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince is the internet’s unlikely defender | Decoder (2024)
Cloudflare will now block AI crawlers by default | The Verge
Patreon partners with Cloudflare to block AI crawlers | 404 Media
Sony and Warner sue Anthropic in latest AI music lawsuit | Billboard
Trump administration supports OpenAI in NYT copyright lawsuit | The Verge
Google Zero is here — now what? | The Verge (2024)