Decoder with Nilay Patel

Latest Episodes:

Google CEO Sundar Pichai on the next phase of AI May 27, 2025

Show notes

In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, I spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities.

To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So I had to ask: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? It was a very Decoder conversation. Read the full transcript here.

Links:

Help us plan the future of Decoder! | AUDIENCE SURVEY
The 15 biggest announcements at Google I/O 2025 | Verge
We tried on Google’s prototype AI smart glasses | Verge
AI Mode is obviously the future of Google Search | Verge
News publishers call Google’s AI Mode ‘theft’ | Verge
Details leak about Jony Ive’s OpenAI device | Verge
DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open monopoly | Verge
Google Zero is here — now what? | Verge
Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay reinventing the bus | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why Uber's CEO is okay with reinventing the bus May 22, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. We recorded this conversation on the same day Uber announced a big set of product updates, including new options for shared rides. Dara was in New York for all that, so he came to our studio and we did this one together, which always makes for a great episode.

If you’ve been listening to Decoder recently, you know that I’m very curious about how service apps like Uber will handle things like AI agents. Dara had a lot of thoughts there. There’s a lot in this one, and Dara didn’t hold back. I think you’re going to like it.

Links:

Uber’s new bus-like feature is nearly 50 percent cheaper than UberX | Verge
An interview with Dara Khosrowshahi | Stratechery
Uber preps for Waymo’s robotaxi launch in Atlanta | Verge
Uber ends year in the black for the first time ever | Verge
Uber’s not out of the woods yet | Verge
UberX Share brings carpooling back to NYC and eight other cities | Verge
Uber CEO vows to be ‘hardcore’ about costs, slow hiring | Verge

Transcript

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI can save the web, not destroy it May 19, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Kevin Scott, the chief technology officer of Microsoft, and one of the company’s AI leaders. Kevin is one of my favorite repeat Decoder guests, and he joined the show this time to talk about the future of search.

Microsoft just announced an open-source tool for websites to integrate AI powered natural language search with just a little bit of effort, in a way that lets them actually run whatever models they want and keep control of their data. I saw some demos before Kevin and I chatted, and the improvements over the bad local search on most sites was obvious. So we talked about what this will mean for AI, for search engines, and for the future of the web.

Links:

Microsoft’s plan to fix the web: letting every website run AI search for cheap | Verge
Microsoft Build 2025: news and announcements from the developer conference | Verge
Introducing the Model Context Protocol | Anthropic
Copyright Office head fired after reporting AI training isn’t always fair use | Ars Technica
Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI and art will coexist in the future | Decoder
Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback | Decoder
Microsoft’s CTO explains how AI can help health care in the US right now | Vergecast

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/669409

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Workday's new product head hopes he can make you like Workday May 15, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people.

Links:

Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday
AI Index Report | Stanford HAI
IBM AI Study | IBM
How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday
Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch
Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider
Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters
Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press
Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/667538

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did Apple get too big for its own good? May 12, 2025

Show notes

We’re doing something a little different today — I asked my friend John Gruber of Daring Fireball to come on the show and talk about the future of Apple, and, importantly, the App Store. I wanted to talk about the most recent ruling in the Epic v. Apple legal saga.

But I also wanted to talk about the big picture at Apple, and why the company seems to have found itself being hammered on all sides: by the developers that feel it’s become too greedy, by federal court judges that no longer trust it, and by regulators now threatening some of its major cash cows.

Links:

Judge rules, in excoriating decision, that Apple violated 2021 order | Daring Fireball
Steve Jobs’ response on Section 3.3.1 | Tao Effect Blog
Epic submitted Fortnite to Apple | Verge
Eddy Cue is fighting to save Apple’s $20 billion paycheck from Google | Verge
Epic is offering developers an alternative to Apple’s in-app purchases | Verge
Epic says Fortnite is coming back to iOS in the US | Verge
Apple files appeal to wrest back control of its App Store | Verge
‘Cook chose poorly’: how Apple blew up its control over the App Store | Verge
Apple changes App Store rules to allow external purchases | Verge
Existential thoughts about Apple’s reliance on Services revenue | Six Colors

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reuters is ready to stand up for the press — and embrace AI May 08, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Paul Bascobert, who is the president of Reuters, as part of a special Thursday series we’re running this month to explore how leaders at some world’s biggest companies make decisions in such a rapidly changing environment. Reuters is a great company for us to kick off with, because it’s been around since 1851, when the hot technology enabling mass media was the telegraph.

Here, today, in 2025, the tech driving media has clearly changed more than a little bit. Distribution in a world full of iPhones and generative AI is a really different proposition than distributing media 50 years before the invention of the radio. So there’s a lot here, and you’ll hear Paul and I get deep into basically every Decoder theme there is.

Links:

The Trust Principles | Reuters
Brendan Carr’s FCC is an anti-consumer, rights-trampling harassment machine | Verge
AP wins reinstatement to White House events | AP
NYT publisher AG Sulzberger on Trump, OpenAI and the economy | Channels
Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour on AI, press freedom, and the future of news | Decoder
Platforms need the news — but they’re killing it | Decoder
Why The Atlantic signed a deal with OpenAI | Decoder
Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NYT publisher AG Sulzberger on Trump, OpenAI, and the economy May 05, 2025

Show notes

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. We’re off today, but we’ll be back Thursday, so stay tuned. In the meantime, we have an excellent episode from Business Insider Chief Correspondent Peter Kafka, who hosts the media podcast Channels.

In this episode, Peter sat down with one of the biggest names in journalism: New York Times publisher AG Sulzberger. It’s a fascinating conversation that covers some of the most pressing issues facing journalism and the news business today. We think you’ll like it.

Links:

NYT publisher AG Sulzberger on Trump, OpenAI and the economy | Channels
New York Times Reports 350,000 Additional Digital Subscribers | NYT
IGN and CNET owner Ziff Davis sues OpenAI | Verge
The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement | Verge
Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour on AI, press freedom, and the future of news | Decoder
Platforms need the news — but they’re killing it | Decoder
Why The Atlantic signed a deal with OpenAI | Decoder
Platformer’s Casey Newton on surviving the great media collapse | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What Trump has broken in 100 days May 01, 2025

Show notes

A lot has happened in the first 100 days of Trump's second term. It’s nearly too much to keep up with, really, but we're going to try. Verge policy editor Adi Robertson joins Decoder this week to talk through six of the biggest stories and themes we're covering, from tariffs to TikTok to DOGE.

Links:

Donald Trump’s first 100 days: all the news affecting the tech industry | Verge
The DOGE days have just begun | Verge
America is living in tariff limbo | Verge
MAGA’s next wave of influencers saved TikTok | Verge
Whatever happened to the Kids’ Online Safety Act? | Verge
Brendan Carr’s FCC is an anti-consumer, rights-trampling harassment machine | Verge
Environmental warning systems are suffering from Trump’s data purge | Verge
Why Trump can’t be trusted with Congress’ new anti-deepfake bill | Decoder
How Trump’s tariffs actually work on the ground | Decoder
The FCC is a weapon in Trump’s war on free speech | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Decoder Live: Fired FTC commissioners fight back Apr 28, 2025

Show notes

A few days ago, I hosted a panel with FTC commissioners Rebecca Slaughter and Alvaro Bedoya at the IAPP Global Privacy Summit in Washington, DC. We recorded the discussion, and we’re bringing it to you today.

Normal Decoder stuff, but these are anything but normal times. Becca and Alvaro were FTC commissioners until very recently, when President Donald Trump fired them — but he doesn't have that legal authority. They’re suing to get their jobs back, and they’re prepared to go all the way to SCOTUS if they have to.

Links:

Trump fires Democratic FTC commissioners | The Verge
Fired FTC commissioners sue Trump | The Verge
The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | The Verge
The government doesn’t understand Meta | The Verge
FTC v Meta live: updates from the battle for Instagram, WhatsApp | The Verge
DOGE has arrived at the FTC | The Verge
Inside Mark Zuckerberg’s failed negotiations with the FTC | Wall Street Journal
FTC chair says he’d drop Meta case if lawfully ordered to | The Verge
Bedoya warns of “corrupting influence of billionaires”| The Verge
The FTC has enough staff to sue Amazon, after all | The Verge

Transcript:⁠https://www.theverge.com/e/657115⁠

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger Apr 24, 2025

Show notes

Today we’re talking about the very real possibility that Google might be broken up by the United States government. And to do that, I’m talking to Jonathan Kanter, the former assistant attorney general for antitrust under the Biden administration. Kanter left the DOJ after Trump was elected, but he was the architect of the major antitrust cases the Trump administration continues to pursue against Google. That means he’s much more free to share his thoughts on what it took to build and win both of these cases and what should happen next.

Links:

Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge
Google is in more danger than ever of being broken up | Verge
OpenAI tells judge it would buy Chrome from Google | Verge
The high stakes of Google’s monopoly trial | Verge
DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open search monopoly | Verge
Google makes history with rapid-fire antitrust losses | NYT
Read the antitrust ruling against Google | NYT
Google ad monopoly ruling's surprise winner: OpenAI | Axios
DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder
DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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