Cyber Security & Cloud Podcast

Latest Episodes:

CSCP S03E05 - Glenn Wilson - Modern Devsecops Hero Feb 06, 2022

Show notes

Glenn Wilson is a DevOps advocate, an agile security consultant, the founder of Dynaminet, the best-selling author of “DevSecOps: A leader’s guide to producing secure software without compromising flow, feedback and continuous improvement,” the co-organizer of DevSecOps London Gathering, the Co-Host of DevSecOps Overflow Podcast, and a member of OWASP. Francesco and Glenn discuss the industry's current state, security champions, risk considerations, and the importance of pen-testing.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:00 Introduction

1:50 View of industry

6:12 Automation, support developers

9:12 Security language barrier

11:25 3 types of communication

14:06 Less reactive, more proactive

17:50 Business owns risk

20:36 Writing a book

26:34 Pen testing

28:28 Auditors and regulators

31:10 Positive Message

32:16 Connect with Glenn

33:44 Outro

Glenn Wilson

https://www.linkedin.com/in/glennwilson

Twitter @GlennDynaminet

https://dynaminet.com

Book—“DevSecOps: A Leader’s Guide to Producing Secure Software Without Compromising Flow, Feedback and Continuous Improvement”

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

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CSCP S03E04 - Naomi Buckwalter - The Path to Cyberber Jan 30, 2022

Show notes

Naomi is on a secret mission to change the world of cyber and make it accessible to everybody!

Naomi Buckwalter is the Director of Information Security & IT at Beam Technologies and the founder and Executive Director of Cybersecurity Gatekeepers Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to closing the demand gap in cybersecurity hiring. Originally an aspiring FBI agent, Naomi is passionate about stopping the war on cybercrime and is recruiting and training people of all skill levels to join the fight.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:46 Introducing Naomi

4:50 War on cyber crime

7:50 Small businesses

10:30 Ransomware

14:00 Principles of security

16:00 Hiring opera singer

19:47 Plane crash analogy

23:00 Mentoring

25:25 InfoSec drama and toxicity

29:20 Path to cyber

33:40 Positive message

35:00 Outro

Christopher Hodson

Twitter @ChrisHInfoSec

https://cybersecuritymatters.blog

https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherjhodson/

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S03E03 - Vandana Verma - Baby Stepping in Cyber - Cyberkids Jan 24, 2022

Show notes

CSCP is back with this brand new season 3

Vandana Verma is the Security Solutions Architect at Snyk, a Chapter Leader and Board Member of OWASP, an advocate for women and girls in AppSec, and the founder of Infosec Kids. Vandana explains why security teams need to be more empathetic, why she started the Spotlight Project and Infosec Kids, the importance of security champions, and her view on the future of security.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:47 Introducing Vandana

3:30 Overview of industry

6:12 Open source and application security

8:38 Cloud-native application security

11:50 Educate developers

14:40 Security champions

18:30 Application security posture management

20:24 Spotlight project

23:53 Infosec Kids

27:00 Infosec Diversity

28:54 Future of security

35:36 Final positive message

37:02 Outro

Vandana Verma

Twitter @InfosecVandana

https://linkedin.com/in/vandana-verma

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S03E02 - Paddy Viswanathan - The Risky Journey To The Cloud Jan 16, 2022

Show notes

CSCP is back with this brand new season 3

Paddy Viswanathan is the CEO and founder of C3M. C3M Cloud Control is a cloud security platform that helps cloud and security teams continuously monitor and manage their cloud security posture. Frank and Paddy discuss risk assessment in the cloud, how to prevent breaches associated with a third party, and the overall state of the cyber security industry.

The episode is brought you by C3M. C3M Cloud Control is a cloud security platform that helps cloud and security teams continuously monitor and manage their cloud security posture. To know more go to www.c3m.io

0:47 Introducing Paddy

2:25 State of the industry

5:55 Risk and alert fatigue

10:21 Risk code

13:19 Security breaches

17:35 Access and authentication

18:50 Cloud assessment

23:24 Final Positive Message

26:15 Outro

Paddy Viswanathan

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paddyviswanathan/

https://www.c3m.io

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S03E01 - Chris Hodson - The Evolution of the CISO Jan 09, 2022

Show notes

CSCP is back with this brand new season 3

Christopher Hodson is the CISO at Contentful, the former CISO of Tanium, the author of Cyber Risk Management, and an all around Cyber Security and DevSecOps expert. Francesco and Christopher discuss changes in the industry since COVID, whether coding should be a requirement to work in cyber security, and communicating technical security risks with executives.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:50 Introducing Chris

3:30 Changes due to COVID

7:05 Cloud capacity and security

11:40 Misconfigurations

13:50 Working cross-functionally

17:40 Shifting security approach

19:58 Communicating with executives

26:10 Burnout

28:35 Is coding a requirement

31:10 Final positive message

34:40 Connect with Chris

34:34 Outro

Christopher Hodson

Twitter @ChrisHInfoSec

https://cybersecuritymatters.blog

https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherjhodson/

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S03E00 - Steve Wilson - Log4J and Log4Shell Special - Nightmare On Christmas Eve Dec 20, 2021

Show notes

CSCP is Coming back with Season 3 in the new year! As a teaser, we bring you the latest story on the blog...Log4j with Steve Wilson from Contrast Security Steve Wilson is an Application Security expert development manager and currently and currently the head of product at Contrast. Steve joins the podcast to discuss the nightmare just unleashed, log4j, that has been affecting everyone around the cybersecurity industry and the reason why we are facing this other pandemic We will return with a special launch in 2022 with some special guest The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register 0:28 Introducing Steve 2:13 Cybersecurity Advice 3:15 Supply chain issues 8:30 Lg4J 12:47 Issue of Supply and software 19:16 What to do to avoid 23:07 Why we are getting it wrong 27:52 Final Positive Message 29:40 Outro Steve Wilson Twitter @virtualsteve https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilsonsd/ Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone Twitter @FrankSEC42 #CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com Social Media Links Follow us on social media to get the latest episodes:Website: http://www.cybercloudpodcast.com/You can listen to this podcast on your favourite player:Itunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-cyber-security-cloud-podcast-cscp/id1516316463  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3fg8AqP4vEi5Im8YKxazUQ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/35703565/admin/   Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber   Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/ Full Transcript 00:00.00franksecHello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the cyber security and cloud podcast today. We have a topic that probably nobody has ever spoken in the recent time that is Goingnna be obligation security vulnerability management but the whole thing that has taken. By the storm the industry that is fundamental log for js and today we have a special guest but before we crack on. Let let us start with our intro. 00:54.11franksecAll right? or right or right we are Back. So I'd like to welcome steel wilson that came we started chatting over over a Twitter over Twitter threadad around of course up for j. So I've reminded him on the show to actually chat a little bit about the topic and his particular take is been He's the chief product officer of contra security 1 product that we absolutely love and we saw that was quite well reacting on the log four j issue but also he is an early member of the Java team on the early ninety s. But before I talk through it. Let me welcome steve steve welcome on the show. 01:33.74Steve WilsonHey thank you Francisco for having me really looking forward to it. So. 01:37.60franksecBrilliant and can you give our audience a little bit about your background. What brought you into side by you know how did you start the journey from the early days with java. 01:47.24Steve WilsonYeah, so um, I started out really early in my career back in the ninety s at Sun microsystems I was an early member of the Java development team. Um. Went on from working really around development tools developer tools for several years and then shifted my focus over to cloud and I spent a lot of time at large companies like oracle and citrix building cloud services and cloud infrastructure and really got exposed. To a lot of the security challenges that are out there in the industry and decided about a year ago that I wanted to really move into the cyber security industry from the inside and so I joined contrast a little over a year ago to head product development. 02:35.60franksecNice, fantastic. And and we need we need more more ally in Cyber especially over over these challenging time. But we have a tradition on the show that we give an overview on the industry of what's working. What's not working so what will be your take on on. 02:53.16Steve WilsonYeah, so um, with the area of the industry that we're really focused on looking at the security of applications and code. It's a really challenging environment out there I Think what we really see is that. 02:53.40franksecWhat's going on. 03:11.40Steve WilsonOver the past several years. The complexity in software out there means that the number of security vulnerabilities in a typical program is is escalating dramatically as they get larger and more complicated and really the fact is human brains have a hard time. Ah, dealing with the complexities in the number of paths and things that are through the code today and so you know really this industry around application security has developed there to create tools that ah people can use to make their applications more secure. But 1 of the big shifts going on now is really moving from a focus on standalone security teams working to audit applications sort of almost after they're done to really bringing that security mindset into development at the beginning. And really creating a new culture where um, security comes very early in the cycle of what's going on with code development. 04:18.55franksecRight? And I Ah think I think we move towards that space. But as you rightfully say the number of vulnerability and the number of issues that a lot of organizations are finding are escalating over and over and over. And that's just on application security. But then you know development team and now devops teams are faced with you know the Cloud issue the Cloud misconfiguration the deployment in the Cloud then the container base container Image. You know the landscape is in my opinion becoming quite quite. Ah, intense and it' complicated for developer team and security team to have that broad spectrum of knowledge. But then you take even an executive they need to make decision of what is your target. What? what is security what security looking like or what good looks like. 05:11.36Steve WilsonYeah, well I think that in what I'll call the olden days which were really not that long ago in a Pre-cloud world. You could depend a lot more on the idea that many of your applications were hidden behind a firewall that they were. 05:11.59franksecWhat's your take on that. 05:29.29Steve WilsonNot exposed to the internet and thus less valuable in ah in a cloud-based world in a zero trust-based world more and more of your applications really are on the internet and that means that every 1 of these vulnerabilities is a potential place that you could be exploited and. 05:37.96franksecUm. 05:47.79Steve WilsonYou know when we start working with a new customer and help them start to evaluate their applications. We'll find that that typical applications have dozens of vulnerabilities in them potentially serious ones and then you look at ah at a large corporation. They may have thousands of applications. 06:05.84franksecRight. 06:07.73Steve WilsonIn their environment. So it's it's not uncommon to see a fortune five hundred or global 2000 company having tens of thousands of discrete vulnerabilities in their software and so from an executive point of view. The question is how do you manage that there's. Ah, sometimes a snap back reaction that says we better stop everything that we're going to that we're doing and and fix this on the other hand. Every company today is a software company. Your competitive advantage is in your software your ability to compete in the market your ability to deliver new services is dependent on that and so the challenge as a leader is how do I balance the real risk. 06:36.69franksecRight. 06:51.50Steve WilsonWith my my need to compete in the market and deliver new value to my customers. 06:55.30franksecRight? And you know I like your take I Really like your take on the rest because I think um because there're a lot of tooling around different areas. You know you have Cloud Security Infrastructure security container Security. You know you have your pantasy rapport coming in your read teaming just trying in different things. Your ah security lifecycle tooling that is dust must and you name me rast you know and and and more ah more of those coming and despite that every tool is is doing. 07:21.36Steve WilsonSo. 07:29.34franksecA different level of of ah scanning and and trying to reduce the false positive I think what we're missing in a lot of program of work and a lot of these organization is the contextualization and and the Breadth of view of ah where are those kind of element deployed. That could potentially ah in my in my humble opinion simplify a lot of those kind of conversations and the conversation that traditionally happened between security team development team and executive because everybody could have an opinion on that while. If we display the complexity of the landscape nobody will be able to inform the opinion unless they're very technical. So. What do you think? steve. 08:12.42Steve WilsonYeah, so this this element of risk analysis is is really critical and you know log for J is a really good example of this This is this is an exploit or ah, a vulnerability that has exploits that are incredibly high risk. Right? It's ah it's a 10 out of 10 Cvs Cvss score because it's you know you're you're basically enabling complete remote code execution on your servers and it's really easy to exploit. But when you really go look at it and. 08:32.60franksecSo. 08:46.86Steve WilsonAnd we've been looking at this specifically with customers. You know we estimate something like fifty fifty six percent of the Java applications out there are packaging of vulnerable um version of log for j but when you really look at it. It actually matters how you use it? um. 08:55.91franksecRight. 09:06.14Steve WilsonWhether your application is vulnerable and so being able to have tools that are able to analyze. Not just do you have 1 of these things the sort of Naive view. But but are you really vulnerable. That's really really critical to you being able to. For example, prioritize the work that you're going to do? What are you going to mitigate first because again, if you have thousands of applications. You know how are you going to do this all at once can't can't do this in a day this is going to be going on honestly for weeks or months. Um, so yeah, being able to really. 09:30.32franksecWhere is still not right. 09:41.79Steve WilsonEstablish risk in an urgent situation like this for triage but then more on a day-to-day basis when you're dealing with an environment where um, you know dozens hundreds or even thousands of software developers continually building New software. How do you evaluate the the risk of different. Um, Conditions vulnerabilities and really decide where you need to make compromises in terms of your development and and really lean into to securing yourself versus continuing to generate that that new business value. 10:15.40franksecRight? up. Absolutely agree and and I think the other thing that we saw that that was working was also trying to prioritize the things that are externally exposed that is easily attackable and you know every team right now is scrambling and trying to find a way to. As you rightfully say you know if you if you belong to an enterprise that has multiple deployment even your web come could be bulletproof to log for j but maybe if we take a step back? Um I wanted to understand considering you come from that kind of environment in Java in the early days I want to understand. What happened in there. Why why are we facing with ah vulnerability that is so easy to exploit that should be really never been in the place you know something so trivial ascend a string and that string can then execute. Ah whatever rce or remote code execution. And then download whatever payload you can want and want how how are we in that situation in the year twenty twenty twelve 2. 11:19.86Steve WilsonSo um, it's it's really interesting to think back to the early days of java and so much emphasis was on creating it as a secure environment. You know, really Java pioneered these concepts like having the the security manager in the runtime that managed what permissions. 11:29.22franksecRight. 11:39.81Steve WilsonThings had but but a lot of that in in the inception of Java was you have to rewind so far to remember that Java was originally intended for environments like set top boxes and running applets in a browser and so the the security manager was for things like making sure that um. 11:50.79franksecAnd. 11:58.32Steve Wilsonyour your java applet couldn't escape the sandbox and get onto somebody's desktop um the actual security of getting something into the Java runtime environment wasn't what the team was optimizing for originally and so when when you look at this log for j. Vulnerability I think there's a couple of things that come in obviously logging is in some ways the least glamorous thing you know task that you can think of and um, you know that log this log for j library is more than 20 years old it's been 12:25.45franksecRise. 12:35.84Steve WilsonYou know it got created then it got donated to apache. It's been in Apache for 20 years now with ah with a very small team of honestly very dedicated folks maintaining it but but it's ah it's a small team with minimal investment and minimal tooling. And while it doesn't seem glamorous. Um, this library has been copied literally millions of times different versions of it at different points in different physical locations. So you know you think about? Okay there's a bug and I want to patch the bug. All right? Well, that's that's 1 challenge but the problem is the the offending code has been copied millions of times around the planet. So. There's there's no single place to fix it on top of that. Um, you know the the. 13:17.52franksecDrive. 13:26.43Steve WilsonConfluence of events that create this vulnerability and make it exploitable are pretty insidious in terms of the the snarly code path you have to go through and while the exploit is trivial. Um, the vulnerability is actually really intricate and so you know what that means is the. The first attempt that the team put out at apache to fix the vulnerability. Um it. It didn't even fix it so you know people went out and started patching to a new version of the log for j library and now they're having to go back and do it again and so in in a lot of ways I think what we're going to find is. Is people continuing to hammer on some of this and until we really get to the bottom of it and then we're going to start the long arduous process of patching this um and we have you know. 14:16.18franksecUm, at scale. 14:19.75Steve WilsonCertain places where they have tooling in place and they're able to execute very very quickly on it and that's you know 1 of the things we're really proud about at contrast is that I think we have tooling that in some ways was designed for the fact that someday this would happen and and it's been great to work with. Customers and and kind of feel like we're helping them. But so many places don't have that kind of tooling in place they're using. Um you know, free and open source tools to do their software composition analysis that don't have enterprise level management. They're writing scripts trying to figure this out themselves. And then you get all the way to the limit case you know you mentioned something like your webcam could be vulnerable and that's not absurd at all. We've seen out in the industry now very specific attacks where people are targeting things like s and mp where they're actually go…

Full show notes at the publisher

CSCP S01E14 - Sam Stepanyan - Part 2 - OWASP AppSec Nettacker and Scaling appsec programmes Dec 19, 2021

Show notes

CSCP is bringing back season 1 in a newly remastered version.

This is part 2 of the interview with Sam.

Sam Stepanyan is an Application Security Architect and Consultant, an OWASP London Chapter Leader, and a WAF Specialist. Sam joins the podcast to discuss many of the opportunities for young aspiring security professionals, the big picture purpose of OWASP, and the first steps to addressing application security

This is part 2 with Sam Stepanyan, an Application Security Architect and Consultant, the OWASP London Chapter Leader, and a WAF Specialist. Sam encourages everyone in the cyber community to join a local OWASP chapter, network at conferences, and compete in games. He also shares a horror story and a success story from his career.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:47 Threat modelling

3:30 Pen testing

5:19 Cost of security

5:58 Dependency checker

7:55 GitHub community

12:20 Local chapters

14:45 Conferences, competitions, events

18:02 OWASP Zed Attack Proxy (Zap)

20:01 Positive and horror story in security

24:12 Future of cyber

25:45 Outro

Sam Stepanyan

Twitter @securestep9

https://www.linkedin.com/in/samstepanyan/

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S01E14 - Sam Stepanyan - Part 1 - OWASP AppSec Nettacker and Scaling appsec programmes Dec 12, 2021

Show notes

CSCP is bringing back season 1 in a newly remastered version.

This is part 1 of the interview with Sam.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:47 Introducing Sam

2:15 Conversation begins

4:10 Positive message

8:10 Purpose of OWASP

10:55 Nettacker

13:40 Asset discovery

15:30 Multi-factor authentication

16:30 Google summer of code

19:49 OWASP top 10

22:46 Capital One and cloud breaches

24:02 Basics of Application Security program

30:00 Outro

Sam Stepanyan

Twitter @securestep9

https://www.linkedin.com/in/samstepanyan/

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S01E13 - Chani Simms - Part 2 - vCISO compliance cybersecurity and women in cyber Dec 05, 2021

Show notes

CSCP is bringing back season 1 in a newly remastered version.

Chani Simms is the Managing Director and Co-Founder of Meta Defense Labs LTD, a consultant, the Founder of SHe CISO, a TEDx Speaker, and an Award-winning Cybersecurity Leader. Chani shares how she prepared for her TedX talk and her thoughts on emotional intelligence and mental health in the workplace.

This is part 2 with Chani Sims. Chani explains what a Virtual CISO does, the importance of basic cyber hygiene, and the initial steps to becoming a cyber security professional. Chani’s approach to security is to operate on zero trust.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:00 Introduction

0:46 Virtual CISO

5:10 Cyber hygiene

8:55 Starting in cyber

13:24 Assume breach

18:53 Twitter drama

22:10 Closing words

22:50 Out

Chani Simms

linkedin.com/in/chani-simms

metadefencelabs.com/

Cyber Security and Cloud Podcast hosted by Francesco Cipollone

Twitter @FrankSEC42

#CSCP #cybermentoringmonday cybercloudpodcast.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_cyber  

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVgsq-vMzq4sxObVonDsIAg/

CSCP S01E13 - Chani Simms - Past 1 - vCISO compliance cybersecurity and women in cyber Nov 28, 2021

Show notes

CSCP is bringing back season 1 in a newly remastered version.

This is part 1 of the interview with Chani.

The episode is brought you by AppSec Phoenix Ltd with the Phoenix platform you can make Vulnerability management for software and organization SMART. Follow the tag #appsecsmart

https://www.appsecphoenix.com get a free 30-day licence quoting CSCP https://landing.appsecphoenix.com/register

0:00 Introduction

0:46 Chani’s background

3:00 TEDx talk

8:00 Women in cyber and mental health

10:56 SHe CISO

14:00 Self-esteem

16:00 Emotional Intelligence

19:08 Managing emotion

21:20 Outro

Chani Simms

linkedin.com/in/chani-simms