Computer Says Maybe

Latest Episodes:

Net 0++: Concrete arguments for AI Oct 25, 2024

Show notes

In our third episode about AI & the environment, Alix interviewed Sherif Elsayed-Ali, who’s been working on using AI to reduce the carbon emissions of concrete. Yes, that’s right — concrete.

This may seem like a very niche place to focus a green initiative on but it isn’t; concrete is the second most used substance in the world because it’s integral to modern infrastructure, and there’s no other material like it. It’s also one of the biggest carbon emitters in the world.

In this episode Sherif explains how AI and machine learning can make the process of concrete production more precise and efficient so that it burns much less fuel. Listen to learn about the big picture of global carbon emissions, and how AI can actually be used to actually reduce carbon output, rather than just monitor it — or add to it!

Sherif Elsayed-Ali trained as a civil engineer, then studied international human rights law and public policy and administration. He worked with the UN and in the non-profit sector on humanitarian and human rights research and policy, before embarking on a career in tech and climate.

Sherif founded Amnesty Tech, a group at the forefront of technology and human rights. He then joined Element AI (today Service Now Research), starting and leading its AI for Climate work. In 2020, he co-founded and became CEO of Carbon Re, an industrial AI company spun out of Cambridge University and UCL, developing novel solutions for decarbonising cement. He then co-founded Nexus Climate, a company providing climate tech advisory services and supporting the startup ecosystem.

Net 0++: Big Dirty Data Centres Oct 18, 2024

Show notes

This week we are continuing our AI & Environment series with an episode about a key piece of AI infrastructure: data centres. With us this week are Boxi Wu and Jenna Ruddock to explain how data centres are a gruesomely sharp double-edged sword.

They contribute to huge amounts of environmental degradation via local water and energy consumption, and impact the health of surrounding communities with incessant noise pollution. Data centres are also used as a political springboard for global leaders, where the expansion of AI infrastructure is seen as being synonymous with progress and economic growth.

Boxi and Jenna talk us through the various community concerns that come with data centre development, and the kind of pushback we’re seeing in the UK and the US right now.

Boxi Wu is a DPhil researcher at the Oxford Internet Institute and a Research Policy Consultant with the OECD’s AI Policy Observatory. Their research focuses on the politics of AI infrastructure within the context of increasing global inequality and the current climate crisis. Prior to returning to academia, Boxi worked in AI ethics, technology consulting and policy research. Most recently, they worked in AI Ethics & Safety at Google DeepMind where they specialised in the ethics of LLMs and led the responsible release of frontier AI models including the initially released Gemini models.

Jenna Ruddock is a researcher and advocate working at the intersections of law, technology, media, and environmental justice. Currently, she is policy counsel at Free Press, where she focuses on digital civil rights, surveillance, privacy, and media infrastructures. She has been a visiting fellow at the University of Amsterdam's critical infrastructure lab (criticalinfralab.net), a postdoctoral fellow with the Technology & Social Change project at the Harvard Kennedy School's Shorenstein Center, and a senior researcher with the Tech, Law & Security Program at American University Washington College of Law. Jenna is also a documentary photographer and producer with a background in community media and factual streaming.

Further reading

Governing Computational Infrastructure for Strong and Just AI Economies, co-authored by Boxi Wu
Getting into Fights with Data Centres by Anne Pasek

Net 0++: Microsoft’s greenwashing w/ Holly Alpine Oct 11, 2024

Show notes

This week we’re kicking off a series about AI & the environment. We’re starting with Holly Alpine, who just recently left Microsoft after starting and growing an internal sustainability programme over a decade.

Holly’s goal was pretty simple: she wanted Microsoft to honour the sustainability commitments that they had set for themselves. The internal support she had fostered for sustainability initiatives did not match up with Microsoft’s actions — they continued to work with fossil fuel companies even though doing so was at odds with their plans to achieve net 0.

Listen to learn about what it’s like approaching this kind of huge systemic challenge with good faith, and trying to make change happen from the inside.

Holly Alpine is a dedicated leader in sustainability and environmental advocacy, having spent over a decade at Microsoft pioneering and leading multiple global initiatives. As the founder and head of Microsoft's Community Environmental Sustainability program, Holly directed substantial investments into community-based, nature-driven solutions, impacting over 45 global communities in Microsoft’s global datacenter footprint, with measurable improvements to ecosystem health, social equity, and human well-being.

Currently, Holly continues her environmental leadership as a Board member of both American Forests and Zero Waste Washington, while staying active in outdoor sports as a plant-based athlete who enjoys rock climbing, mountain biking, ski mountaineering, and running mountain ultramarathons.

Further Reading:

Microsoft’s Hypocrisy on AI

Our tech has a climate problem: How we solve it

Chasing Away Sidewalk Labs w/ Bianca Wylie Oct 04, 2024

Show notes

In 2017 Google’s urban planning arm Sidewalk Labs came into Toronto and said “we’re going to turn this into a smart city”.

Our guest Bianca Wylie was one of the people who stood up and said “okay but… who asked for this?”

This is a story about how a large tech firm came into a community with big promises, and then left with its tail between its legs. In the episode Alix and Bianca discuss the complexities of government procurement of tech, and how attractive corporate solutions look when you’re so riddled with austerity.

Bianca Wylie is a writer with a dual background in technology and public engagement. She is a partner at Digital Public and a co-founder of Tech Reset Canada. She worked for several years in the tech sector in operations, infrastructure, corporate training, and product management. Then, as a professional facilitator, she spent several years co-designing, delivering and supporting public consultation processes for various governments and government agencies. She founded the Open Data Institute Toronto in 2014 and co-founded Civic Tech Toronto in 2015.

Further Reading:

A Counterpublic Analysis of Sidewalk Toronto

Bianca Wylie on Medium

In Toronto, Google’s Attempt to Privatize Government Fails—For Now

Will Newsom Veto the AI Safety Bill? w/ Teri Olle Sep 27, 2024

Show notes

What if we could have a public library for compute? But is… more compute really what we want right now?

This week Alix interviewed Teri Olle from the Economic Security Project, a co-sponsor of the California AI safety bill (SB 1047). The bill has been making the rounds in the news because it would force AI companies to do safety checks on their models before releasing them to the public — which is seen as uh, ‘controversial’, to those in the innovation space.

But Teri had a hand in a lesser known part of the bill: the construction of CalCompute, a state owned public cloud cluster for resource-intensive AI development. This would mean public access to the compute power needed to train state of the art AI models — finally giving researchers and plucky start ups access to something otherwise locked inside a corporate walled garden.

Teri Olle is the California Campaign Director for Economic Security Project Action. Beginning her career as an attorney, Teri soon moved into policy and issue advocacy, working on state and local efforts to ban toxic chemicals and pesticides, decrease food insecurity and hunger, increase gender representation in politics. She is a founding member of a political action committee dedicated to inserting parent voice into local politics and served as the president of the board of Emerge California. She lives in San Francisco with her husband and two daughters.

The stories we tell ourselves about AI Sep 20, 2024

Show notes

Applications for our second cohort of Media Mastery for New AI Protagonists are now open! Join this 5-week program to level up your media impact alongside a dynamic community of emerging experts in AI politics and power—at no cost to you. In this episode, we chat with Daniel Stone, a participant from our first cohort, about his work. Apply by Sunday, September 29th!

The adoption of new technologies is driven by stories. A story is a shortcut to understanding something complex. Narratives can lock us into a set of options that are…terrible. The kicker is that narratives are hard to detect and even harder to influence.

But how reliable are our narrators? And how can we use story as strategy?

The good news is that experts are working to unravel the narratives around AI. All so that folks with public interest in mind can change the game.

This week Alix sat down with three researchers looking at three AI narrative questions. She spoke to Hanna Barakat about how the New York Times reports on AI; John Tanner, who scraped and analysed huge amounts of YouTube videos to find narrative patterns; and Daniel Stone, who studied and deconstructed metaphors that power collective understanding about AI.

In this ep we ask:

What are the stories we tell ourselves about AI? And why do we let industry pick them?
How do these narratives change what is politically possible?
What can public interest organisations and advocates do to change the narrative game?

Hanna Barakat is a research analyst for Computer Says Maybe, working at the intersection of emerging technologies and complex systems design. She graduated from Brown University in 2022 with honors in International Development Studies and a focus in Digital Media Studies.

Jonathan Tanner founded Rootcause after more than fifteen years working in senior communications roles for high-profile politicians, CEOs, philanthropists and public thinkers across the world. In this time he has worked across more than a dozen countries running diverse teams whilst writing keynote speeches, securing front page headlines, delivering world-first social media moments and helping to secure meaningful changes to public policy.

Daniel Stone is currently undertaking research with Cambridge University’s Centre for Future Intelligence and is the Executive Director of Diffusion.Au. He is a Policy Fellow with the Chifley Research Centre and a Policy Associate at the Centre for Responsible Technology Australia.

Bridging The Divide w/ Issie Lapowsky Sep 13, 2024

Show notes

There are oceans of research papers digging into the various harms of online platforms. Researchers are asking urgent questions such as how hate speech and misinformation has an effect on our information environment, and our democracy.

But how does this research find it’s way to the media, policymakers, advocacy groups, or even tech companies themselves?

To help us answer this, Alix is joined this week by Issie Lapowsky, who recently authored Bridging The Divide: Translating Research on Digital Media into Policy and Practice — a report about how research reaches these four groups, and what they do with it. This episode also features John Sands from Knight Foundation, who commissioned this report.

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