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    History

    Cold War Conversations

    “Listening to even one episode of “Cold War Conversations” will make this sprawling, potentially intimidating period of history feel vivid and compelling.” The New York Times

    Experience the Cold War like never before with Cold War Conversations — an award-winning podcast.

    Each week, host Ian Sanders brings you raw, firsthand accounts from the people who lived through one of history’s most tense and transformative eras — soldiers, spies, civilians, and more.

    These aren’t stories from textbooks. They’re unfiltered voices from the frontlines of history — emotional, gripping, and deeply human.

    This is Cold War history, told from the inside out.

    Advertise

    Copyright: © 2024 Cold War Conversations

    • Apple Podcasts
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    Latest Episodes:
    A Childhood under the eye of the Secret Police (147) Oct 31, 2020
    Show notes

    At 2 a.m. on 10 March 1983, 12-year-old Carmen Bugan was home alone after her father had left for Bucharest. That afternoon, Carmen returned from school to find secret police in her living room. Her father’s protest against the regime had changed her life forever. This is her story.

    This is one of the most powerful stories I have recorded so far. What you will hear in Carmen’s own words is an incredibly emotional story about childhood, family, spirit and humanity – do stay and listen to the end. It's safe to say it's a hell of a story and an emotional one too...


    Buy the book and support the podcast

    If you want to support our work preserving Cold War history then only about $3, £3 or €3 per month really helps keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.

    I am delighted to welcome Carmen Bugan to our Cold War conversation…


    Carmen has also written Poetry and the Language of Oppression - Essays on Politics and Poetics, available here

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode147/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode, visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations on Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

    0:00 Introduction to the episode by Ian Sanders

    4:31 Carmen Bugan's family background and school life in Romania

    15:18 Life during the food shortages in Romania and Carmen's father's decision to protest

    26:02 Maintaining a double life under an oppressive regime

    34:50 The aftermath of Carmen's father protest and the family's ordeal

    49:53 First visit to imprisoned father and the emotional encounter

    1:03:35 The family's reunion with their father and living under house arrest

    1:11:49 Discovery of secret police files and finding love amidst the chaos

    1:19:53 Struggle after obtaining visas, saying goodbye to Romania and moving to America

    1:27:41 Ian Sanders concludes the episode and thanks the financial supporters

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Don - Cold War 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment at Fulda (146) Oct 23, 2020
    Show notes

    In this second episode with Don Snedeker we talk to him about his time after his tour of Vietnam when he served in West Germany.

    From 1974 to 1986 Don served in a number of roles but most noticeably he was assigned to the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment in Fulda, one of the locations where it was assumed that Warsaw Pact units would attack through.

    He also trained as a Foreign Area Officer specialising in Western Europe and studied at the German Armed Forces Staff College in Hamburg.

    From 1991 to 1992, Don headed the Inspectors and Escorts branch conducting conventional arms control inspections and confidence-building visits in the former Soviet Union and other Warsaw Pact countries.

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Co-host James conducts our chat and I am delighted to welcome Don Snedeker to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode146/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

    0:00 Introduction

    4:26 Explanation of the Fulda Gap and its strategic importance

    11:28 Comparison of missions in Vietnam and Germany

    15:53 Discussion of the social life and community in Germany

    20:41 Don Snedeker's career after Fulda and his work at Fort Monroe, Virginia

    24:31 Don Snedeker's role transition post fall of the Berlin Wall

    28:38 Don Snedeker's conversation with an East German Air Defense Colonel

    35:55 Don Snedeker's interactions with Soviet officers

    44:27 Don Snedeker's experience during German unification

    47:47 Ian Sanders wraps up the episode and directs listeners to additional resources

    48:50 Special thanks to patrons

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Navigator aboard the Cold War Vulcan nuclear bomber (145) Oct 16, 2020
    Show notes

    Barry Mullen was a Navigator Radar on the legendary Royal Air Force nuclear bomber, the Vulcan.

    The Navigator Radar (Nav Radar) had the responsibility for coordinating bombing from the aircraft.

    This role was performed entirely via instrumentation and was achieved via the ground-facing radar and the Navigation Bombing System a direct successor of the WW2 H2S system used in aircraft such as the Lancaster.

    This allowed accurate bombing from 57,000 feet down to an incredibly low height of 250 feet.

    Barry served during the 1970s and candidly shares his experiences. He tells us about his time at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus during the Turkish invasion as well as the detail of his mission scenarios, both conventional and nuclear. He also shares information about his escape and evasion training as well as much more.

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute about $3, £3 or €3 per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.

    Back to today’s episode, we had a little bit of a problem with the audio, but I do think what Barry shares is worth hearing and I hope that doesn’t affect your listening too much.

    I am delighted to welcome Barry Mullen to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode145/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction and Barry's initial experiences with target study

    1:14 Barry Mullen's journey to becoming a navigator and his training experiences

    7:55 Difficulties encountered during training and training for high level and low level attacks

    11:25 Barry's posting in Akrotiri, Cyprus and Cold War missions in Cento

    15:17 The Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and Barry's experience during the invasion

    20:25 Squadron's role post-invasion and Barry's return to England

    22:43 Barry's training and experiences in Canada and the United States

    29:49 Barry's posting as an instructor at Scampton and selection for the Vulcan display crew

    34:19 Nuclear weapon simulator checks and discussions on nuclear deterrence

    47:00 Flying other aircraft besides the Vulcan and the most dangerous situation during service

    50:06 Closing remarks and promotions

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    1962 Berlin fiction - author interview (144) Oct 13, 2020
    Show notes

    In this bonus episode, we talk again with Paul Grant, author of "Coercion" the fourth book about the Schultz family who live in Berlin. His books are set at the end of the Second World War and the start of the Cold War.

    Coercion is set in 1962 against the backdrop of the Berlin Wall while it is still barbed wire and a fragile wall. Escape attempts are frequent and these attempts are the major theme of Paul’s latest book.

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Co-host James conducts our chat and I am delighted to welcome Paul Grant to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode144/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.

    Help Support the podcast by shopping at Amazon.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/books/12447630031/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_books&tag=cwcp-21

    Help support the podcast with a CWC mug or maybe a t-shirt?

    https://www.redbubble.com/people/Coldwarpod/shop?asc=u

    Radio GDR

    If you are interested in East Germany we can highly recommend our friends over at Radio GDR.



    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction of guest, Paul Grant, and his book "Coercion"

    2:06 Sponsor: Call for financial support and podcast merchandise promotion

    6:44 The state of Berlin in 1962 as a book setting and the Berlin Wall

    15:02 The role of West Berlin Police and the American Allies

    18:50 Real-life stories from the Cold War period

    21:23 Introduction to the characters and plot of "Coercion"

    28:12 Research methods and the importance of historical accuracy in historical fiction

    34:54 Exploration of the legitimacy of the DDR in the early 1960s

    40:16 Germany's approach to dealing with its Cold War past

    48:22 Upcoming projects from Paul Grant

    52:28 Acknowledgement of the podcast's financial supporters

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Don - Vietnam war Armoured Cavalry Platoon Leader (143) Oct 09, 2020
    Show notes

    This is the first of two episodes we have following Don Snedeker’s experiences through the Cold War. In this episode, we hear about his time in Vietnam and the book he has written entitled "The Blackhorse in Vietnam: The 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment in Vietnam and Cambodia, 1966–1972”.

    Don was born in Brooklyn New York but followed his Father’s postings around the globe as an ‘Army brat’. Don was commissioned into the Armour branch of the US Army in February 1969 and by December he had been posted to Vietnam initially assigned to the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Blackhorse) but later joining the 1st Armoured Cavalry Regiment (Blackhawks) serving as an armoured cavalry platoon leader and as a Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol platoon leader. He was awarded a Bronze Star with ‘V’ for Valour, a Purple Heart, and the Combat Infantryman’s Badge.


    Buy Don's book and support the podcast here https://amzn.to/3nAj7Ra

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Co-host James conducts our chat and I am delighted to welcome Don Snedeker to our Cold War conversation…

    There is further information and a book giveaway in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode143/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction and historical context

    1:29 Don Snedeker's early life, military career, and family history

    7:35 Reflection on preparedness for war and the role of armored cavalry in Vietnam

    15:48 Long range reconnaissance missions and jungle warfare

    25:20 Tactics used in combat and earning military honors

    27:19 Writing the book "The Black Horse in Vietnam" and its impact

    35:06 Experience returning home from Vietnam and personal memories

    39:38 Visiting Vietnam post-war and personal reflections

    43:57 Unique characteristics and advantages of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment in Vietnam

    55:17 End of interview and closing remarks by Ian Sanders

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    In Cold War Skies – NATO and Soviet airpower 1949-89 (142) Oct 02, 2020
    Show notes

    Today’s episode is brought to you by Osprey publishing and we’re speaking with Michael Napier, the author of “In Cold War Skies – NATO and Soviet airpower 1949-89”.

    Michael also flew the Tornado during the Cold War and served during the 1980s at 14 Sqn and 31 Sqn at RAF Brüggen in West Germany where he talks about nuclear QRA, low-level training in Germany, Canada and Exercise Red Flag in the US plus lots more.

    His book is packed with first-hand accounts of operational flying during the Cold War as well as stunning photos.


    You can buy the book and support the podcast on this link https://amzn.to/3bELNDa

    If you want to support our work in preserving Cold War history then only about $3, £3 or €3 per month helps keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.

    I am delighted to welcome Michael Napier to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes,plus a book giveaway which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode142/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction and guest Michael Napier's personal experiences during the Cold War

    3:12 Discussion about Michael Napier's RAF career and counter air plans

    6:07 Insight into the training and exercises during the Cold War

    13:08 Reflection on the end of the Cold War and fraternizing with former enemies

    16:22 The genesis and structure of Michael Napier's book on the Cold War

    21:44 The advancement of aircraft technology and intelligence gathering during the Cold War

    27:34 The cyclic nature of history, military organization, and the comparison of aircraft

    32:22 The Arab Israeli war's impact on warfare tactics and the evolution of different aircraft

    40:06 Researching for the book and neutrality of nations during the Cold War

    47:30 The human cost of the Cold War and preserving the stories of the era

    53:13 Review of "In Cold War Skies: NATO and Soviet AirPower, 1949" and book giveaway

    54:42 Closing remarks and appreciation to listeners and financial supporters

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    I was a deep cover KGB spy Part 2 (141) Sep 25, 2020
    Show notes

    This is part 2 of our chat with Jack Barsky who spent ten years as an undercover KGB agent in the United States.

    He is the longest surviving known member of the KGB illegals programme that operated during the Cold War.

    In this episode we talk about his first days in the US, his mission and how he managed build his cover enabling him to live and work as a US citizen. He honestly and candidly talks about the impact his secret life had on those closest to him and the moment of his arrest by the FBI.

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    I am delighted to welcome Jack Barsky to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode141/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

    0:00 Introduction and Jack Barsky's life as a KGB agent

    2:18 Support for the Cold War Conversations podcast

    8:18 Living undercover in the United States

    15:15 Communication methods with the KGB

    18:13 Shift in mission and life as a computer programmer

    24:27 Impact of family life on his mission

    32:11 Discovery of Jack's identity and confrontation with the FBI

    40:20 Revealing his past to his family

    44:51 Reunion with his abandoned son and friendship with FBI agent

    49:22 Reflections on his decisions and the impact of his past

    51:15 Closing remarks and acknowledgements to patrons

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    I was a deep cover KGB spy Part 1 (140) Sep 18, 2020
    Show notes

    If you’ve seen the TV drama series, “The Americans” you’ll be fascinated by this episode. Albrecht Dittrich was an East German graduate student and a true believer in the Communist cause when he was recruited by the KGB in 1970. He spent ten years as an undercover KGB agent in the United States.

    He is the longest surviving known member of the KGB illegals programme that operated during the Cold War.

    In this episode we talk about his first days his early life in East Germany as well as his recruitment and training in Berlin & Moscow.

    It’s an amazing insight into the mind and personality of a secret agent and the immense pressures he was under in the 10 years he served his KGB masters.

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    I am delighted to welcome Jack Barsky to our Cold War conversation…


    UK Fans can buy Jack's book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/2FKAbmj

    US Fans can buy Jack's book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/3hLQoVs

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode140/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook or click here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction of Jack Barsky and his relationship with the KGB

    1:25 Jack Barsky's recruitment and training by the KGB

    2:06 Fundraising request for the podcast

    2:36 Jack Barsky's early life and education in East Germany

    11:41 Barsky's journey to becoming a KGB agent

    36:15 The romanticization of spies and the reality of spy life in East Germany

    51:00 The dangers, risks, and impacts of being a spy

    37:05 Jack Barsky's belief in the socialist ideal and the tenets of Marxism

    40:02 Jack Barsky's training mission to West Berlin and intensive training in Moscow

    59:48 Jack Barsky's transition to a new identity in the US

    1:00:38 Closing remarks by Ian Sanders and additional content information.

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Portland Spy Ring Part 2 (139) Sep 11, 2020
    Show notes

    This is the 2nd episode with Trevor Barnes, the author of “Dead Doubles, a new book on the Portland Spy Ring, one of the most infamous espionage cases of the Cold War.

    The story continues with the dramatic arrest of three of the KGB spies outside the Old Vic theatre in London and the discovery of the amazing espionage career of the Krogers, the innocent-looking couple in suburbia…

    We also talk about the revelation that the Portland spy ring was larger than thought and that at least two members escaped capture.


    UK Fans can buy the book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/2Gp50gD

    US Fans can buy the book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/3jHRpiy

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    I am delighted to welcome Trevor Barnes to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes,plus a book giveaway which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode139/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook or click here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction and arrest of Gordon Lonsdale

    2:26 Interview begins with Trevor Barnes: Background on the arrest of Lonsdale, Houghton, and Gee

    15:13 The arrest of Gordon Lonsdale, Houghton, and Gee: Discussion on the Krogers' arrest and espionage equipment

    33:29 Discovery of further espionage equipment: The Krogers' false identities and their histories as spies

    38:02 Court case: Attempts to turn Lonsdale and identifying his real name

    46:43 Negotiations with Lonsdale and the Krogers: The deal offered to Lonsdale

    54:50 Establishing Lonsdale's real identity: Unveiling the true identity of Konon Molody

    1:02:27 Discussions on Molody becoming a double agent for the British: The futile negotiations with Molody

    1:04:31 Spy swap: Molody's journey to freedom and the spy exchange at the Glienicke Bridge

    1:12:22 Details on the wider ring of spies controlled by Lonsdale: Successful penetration of the Porton Down research centre

    1:23:03 Acknowledgement of financial supporters

    Chapters powered by PodcastAI✨

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Portland Spy Ring Part 1 (138) Sep 04, 2020
    Show notes

    In this episode we talk with Trevor Barnes, the author of “Dead Doubles, a new book on the Portland Spy Ring, one of the most infamous espionage cases of the Cold War.

    In 1960 it was discovered that crucial secrets from the world-leading submarine research base at Portland in Dorset were being stolen by a British man and his mistress. The couple were tailed by MI5 'watchers' to a covert meeting with a Canadian businessman, Gordon Lonsdale. The unsuspecting Lonsdale in turn led MI5's spycatchers to an innocent-looking couple in suburban Ruislip called the Krogers…


    UK Fans can buy the book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/2Gp50gD

    US Fans can buy the book here & support the podcast https://amzn.to/3jHRpiy

    If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

    Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    I am delighted to welcome Trevor Barnes to our Cold War conversation…

    There’s further information on this episode in our show notes,plus a book giveaway which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode138/

    If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

    Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.


    Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

    Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

    Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

    Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

    Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations


    0:00 Introduction and Background of Trevor Barnes

    1:03 Overview of the Portland Spy Ring and Trevor Barnes' book "Dead Doubles"

    9:14 Investigation and Surveillance of the Krogers and Portland Spy Ring

    13:32 Missed Opportunities and Gender Bias in the 1950s

    25:24 Introduction to Rafter Technology Used for Surveillance

    32:54 MI5's Surveillance Strategy and Role of Women

    35:30 Moral Dilemmas Faced by MI5 During the Investigation

    37:22 Investigation into the Search Family

    43:04 Trevor Barnes' Approach to Historical Accuracy in His Book

    46:44 Closing Remarks and Acknowledgments

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