Cold War Conversations

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Arrested by the KGB and taken to the Lubyanka prison (237) May 27, 2022

Show notes

Marti Peterson was the first female CIA operative to be assigned to Moscow, probably the most challenging posting during the Cold War.

Don't miss the previous episode here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/

This second episode turns to TRIGON, the code name for Alexandr Ogorodnik. He was an official in the Soviet Embassy in Bogota, Columbia recruited by the CIA in 1973. Marti and TRIGON never met in person, but they shared information through dead drops and intelligence. We hear about the tradecraft involved.

Marti is arrested by KGB agents and taken to Moscow's Lubyanka Prison for questioning and talks in detail about that experience.

UK listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast

US listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast

0:00 Introduction and Marti Peterson's role in the Cold War

2:33 Recruitment of Trigon by the CIA

10:06 Marti's first dead drop for Trigon and surveillance evasion techniques

18:24 Marti Peterson's account of her adrenaline-filled Cold War operations

24:12 The value and dissemination of Trigon's intelligence

29:55 Growing concerns about Trigon's safety and attempts to communicate

33:11 The dead drop and Marti's unexpected encounter

37:12 Marti Peterson's arrest, interrogation, and release

49:59 Marti Peterson's return to the US and the discovery of Trigon's fate

57:38 The aftermath: Trigon's unknown daughter in Bogota and his real identity

1:00:21 Marti's meeting with President Jimmy Carter

1:02:34 Episode notes, acknowledgement of financial supporters and call for donations

1:03:25 The Cold War Conversations online store

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Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.

I am delighted to welcome Marti Peterson to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode237/

Episode one is here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/

Facebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.

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The first female CIA officer in Cold War Moscow (236) May 20, 2022

Show notes

Marti Peterson was the first female CIA operative to be assigned to Moscow, probably the most challenging posting during the Cold War. Her story begins in Laos during the Vietnam War where she accompanied her husband John, a CIA officer. She describes their life in a small city in Laos, and the devastating news she received on October 19, 1972.

Marti returned to the United States and one night at dinner a good friend suggested she look into working for the CIA.

After making it clear to CIA recruiters that she didn’t want to be a secretary or an admin assistant they trained her to become an operative, effectively a spy. When Marti was posted to Moscow during the day, she worked as a diplomat at the U.S. Embassy. At night, on weekends and during her lunch breaks, she would report to the CIA station in the same building to do her work as an operative.

UK listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast

US listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast

0:00 Introduction and Marti Peterson's background

1:14 Marti Peterson's life in Moscow as a CIA operative

2:50 Marti's early life and college years

6:20 Marti's experience as a CIA wife and life in Laos

14:22 The path to becoming a CIA operative

36:50 Training and preparation for Moscow

40:10 Arrival and adaptation to life in Moscow

49:54 Social life and intelligence work in Moscow

53:31 Teaser for the next episode about Trigon

54:52 Store promotion and closing remarks

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Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome Marti Peterson to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/

Listen to episode 2 here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode237/

Facebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.

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The 1989 World Festival of Youth and Students in Pyongyang, North Korea (235) May 13, 2022

Show notes

The 13th World Festival of Youth and Students was held from 1–8 July 1989 in Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea. It was the largest international event staged in North Korea up until then.

The event took four years of preparation by the North Korean government, which effectively spent a quarter of the country's yearly budget (US$4.5 billion) on it. Ultimately declared as the largest ever World Festival of Youth and Student with about 22,000 people from 177 countries attending.

This event was the last festival held during the Cold War era as waves of unrest began to occur throughout Central and Eastern Europe later on in the year.

Greg Elmer has directed the film “The Canadian Delegation” which features long time activist Chris Frazer who was handed the task of assembling a Canadian delegation to North Korea. The film follows Frazer and a number of other delegates as they recount their participation in the Festival as world events continued to unfold around them.

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Today’s episode is hosted by co-host Peter Ryan. I am delighted to welcome Greg Elmer to our Cold War conversation…

0:00 Introduction and background of the 13th World Festival of Youth and Students

2:21 Interview with Greg Elma: The History and Politics of the Youth Festivals

9:15 Economic implications of North Korea's festival expenditures

12:06 The Canadian Delegation: Composition and Journey to Pyongyang

21:19 Festival Atmosphere and Experiences in North Korea

27:18 Delegates' Realizations and Long-Term Impact of the Festival

36:44 The Canadian Delegation's Response to Tiananmen Square

45:20 Reaction to the Film "The Canadian Delegation"

53:19 How to Access the Film on Vimeo and Future Plans

54:07 Ian Sanders' Closing Remarks and Cold War Conversations' Call to Action

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Watch the film here

There’s further information and videos here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode235/

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.

The Cold War Conversations Bookshop

Help us to continue recording the stories of the Cold War by using our bookshop.

Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

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Britain’s Cold War Human Chemical Warfare Experiments (234) May 06, 2022

Show notes

Ian Foulkes was exposed to the deadly nerve agent Sarin in 1983 at the Porton Down Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment., one of the UK's most secretive and controversial military research facilities.

Ian describes in detail the process and the ill effects this caused him and shares details of a little-known fatality where 20-year-old Ronald Maddison died 45 minutes after what scientists thought was 200mg of liquid Sarin dripped onto his arm.

We also talk about the development of chemical weapons during the Cold War and the history of the Porton Down Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment.

Up to 20,000 people took part in various trials at Porton Down from 1949 up to 1989. In 2004 Maddison’s death was ruled to have been Corporate Manslaughter. The MoD withdrew a challenge to this ruling minutes before the hearing. In 2008 the MoD paid 600 veterans of the tests £8k each without admitting liability.

Now if you think there is a vast army of research assistants, audio engineers and producers putting together this podcast you’d be wrong. This podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to everyone for free.

If you’d like to help to preserve Cold War history and enable me to continue to produce this podcast you can via one-off or monthly donations.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ for more details.

0:00 Introduction and background of the 13th World Festival of Youth and Students

2:21 Interview with Greg Elma: The History and Politics of the Youth Festivals

9:15 Economic implications of North Korea's festival expenditures

12:06 The Canadian Delegation: Composition and Journey to Pyongyang

21:19 Festival Atmosphere and Experiences in North Korea

27:18 Delegates' Realizations and Long-Term Impact of the Festival

36:44 The Canadian Delegation's Response to Tiananmen Square

45:20 Reaction to the Film "The Canadian Delegation"

53:19 How to Access the Film on Vimeo and Future Plans

54:07 Ian Sanders' Closing Remarks and Cold War Conversations' Call to Action

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Do join our Facebook discussion group where the cold war conversation continues between episodes. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

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Flying for the CIA's Air America in South East Asia (233) Apr 29, 2022

Show notes

In 1964, pilot Captain Hansen found himself unemployed. He began to send out feelers to several companies including one that had placed an ad in the Washington Post called Air America. When he was called in for an interview which primarily consisted of two questions - can you fly good and do you drink a lot.

Air America was the airline owned by the CIA. Its operations were unknown. Its schedules were irregular. Its pilots were shadow people. Its world was the world of spooks, covert air ops, adventure, and danger. Hansen would be flying in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and other locations in Southeast Asia. It could not have been a better fit for Hansen, an addicted adrenaline junkie. He would end up staying in Asia for over a decade and was fortunate enough to live to tell us about it in his book “Flight”

Buy Neil's book here

Cold War history is disappearing; however a simple monthly donation will help preserve it and keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome Neil Hansen to our Cold War conversation…

Further information is here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode233/

0:00 Introduction of guest, Neil Hansen, and his journey with Air America

2:02 Call for financial support for the Cold War Conversations podcast

3:35 Hansen's recruitment and early experiences with Air America

13:31 Hansen's black flight missions and promotion within Air America

20:13 Hansen's unique flight training methods and handling emergencies

26:12 Planning missions and gathering intelligence in Vietnam and Laos

30:53 Hansen's first-hand account of the Tet Offensive

41:21 Navigating the dangers and challenges in Laos during the Cold War

1:00:01 Hansen's harrowing experience of being shot down and bailing out

1:04:07 The last flight out of Cambodia: Neil Hansen's escape and reflection

1:20:26 Neil Hansen's fight for recognition, his book, and concluding remarks

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If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

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A photojournalist in Cold War Eastern Europe (232) Apr 22, 2022

Show notes

During the 1970s and 1980s, Arthur Grace travelled extensively behind the Iron Curtain, working primarily for news magazines. One of only a small corps of Western photographers with ongoing access, he was able to delve into the most ordinary corners of people's daily lives, while also covering significant events. His remarkable book Communism(s) A Cold War Album is effectively psychological portraits that leave the viewer with a sense of the gamut of emotions in that era.

Illustrated with over 120 black-and-white images-nearly all previously unpublished- Communism(s) gives an unprecedented glimpse behind the veil of a not-so-distant time filled with harsh realities unseen by nearly all but those that lived through it. Shot in the USSR, Poland, Romania, Yugoslavia and the German Democratic Republic, here are portraits of factory workers, farmers, churchgoers, holidaymakers and loitering teens juxtaposed with Social Realist-designed apartment blocks, annual May Day Parades, Poland's Solidarity movement (and the subsequent imposition of martial law) and the vastness of Moscow's Red Square.

Buy the book here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9788862087674

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If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews here. It really helps us get new guests on the show.

0:00 Introduction to Cold War Conversations and Arthur Grace

2:37 Sponsor: Cold War Conversations merchandise and donations

5:31 Arthur Grace's experiences in Romania

15:45 Encounters and photo opportunities in East Germany

21:23 Anti-government memorials and Solidarity movement in Poland

33:39 The art and challenges of photojournalism during the Cold War

40:42 Transition and transformation in Poland between 1982 and 1989

46:16 Reflections on Cold War assignments and favorite photographs

48:45 Anecdotes from Moscow, Warsaw and the Gobi Desert

58:11 Arthur's book

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If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

More episode info here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode232/

Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.

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Escaping from Cold War Romania (231) Apr 15, 2022

Show notes

Zsolt Akos Pall was 17 when he decided to flee Cold War Romania for a better life in the West.

It’s a heart-warming story of the generosity of strangers. Young Zsolt finds compassionate border guards, gets lost in Vienna and has incredible luck wherever he turns as he negotiates the iron curtain as well as many other international borders to reach his brother in Sweden

However, his escape is bittersweet as we hear of his emotional farewell to his parents, not knowing if he’d ever see them again.

Cold War history is disappearing; however a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

There’s further information here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode231/

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

0:00 Introduction and Zolt Acos Powell's decision to flee Cold War Romania

7:52 Zolt's parents' reaction and his journey to the Hungarian border

16:00 Zolt's escape and experiences at the Hungarian border station

24:01 Zolt's journey to Vienna and his first day there

36:10 Zolt's journey from Vienna to Germany and his encounters along the way

48:06 Zolt's attempt to cross the border, arrival in Germany and journey to Stuttgart

53:02 Zolt's first impression of Hamburg

1:04:01 Zolt's arrival in Sweden and reuniting with his brother

1:07:38 The repercussions faced by Zolt's parents and their arrival in Sweden

1:10:44 Conclusion, mention of financial supporters and the Cold War Conversations store

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A Hungarian childhood in Cold War Romania (230) Apr 08, 2022

Show notes

Zsolt Akos Pall was born in a small town in the Hungarian speaking part of Romania.

For ordinary people, life in Romania in the 1980s was very hard and it could be even worse if you were a part of the Hungarian Szekler minority since the Communist government persecuted the Hungarian minority. They even made them change their Hungarian names into Romanian. Zsolt's brother was renamed Istvan to Stefan. However, Zsolt was baptised Zsolt, since there was no Romanian equivalent to it.

Zsolt describes the shortages, his schooling and many other stories of life in Romania during this period.

We end the episode with Zsolt’s plans to escape to Sweden. Don’t miss Part 2!

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I am delighted to welcome Zsolt Akos Pall to our Cold War conversation…

There’s further information here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode230/

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations on Facebook.

0:00 Introduction and early life in Romania

2:36 Life under communism and experience of the Hungarian minority in Romania

15:56 Impact of shortages on daily life and industry

18:47 School life, propaganda, and societal structure under the regime

27:02 Cold War hobbies: Young pioneer experience and photography

32:59 Brother's journey out of Romania and Western influences

38:35 Zsolt's escape attempt and first love

41:12 Life goals in Hungary, brother's journey to Sweden, and pivotal decision

44:27 Closing remarks, acknowledgments, and sponsor mentions

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The shooting down of KAL007, the Able Archer exercise and the nuclear war scare of 1983 (229) Apr 01, 2022

Show notes

The year 1983 was one of the most dangerous in human history. While the Cuban crisis was exceptionally dangerous and both the United States and the Soviet Union had significant nuclear arsenals in 1962, a war in 1983 would have likely ended the human race.

Brian Morra was Chief of Intelligence Analysis for US Forces Japan at Yakota airbase when on 1st September 1983 an unarmed Korean airliner was shot down by a Soviet fighter causing the deaths of 269 people. He describes the less well known subsequent incidents between Soviet and US military aircraft which almost resulted in a shooting war between the two superpowers.

During this period the Soviet leadership believed the US was going to launch a nuclear attack on their country. Their paranoia was heightened by several incidents during 1983 which are dramatized in Brian’s new novel “The Able Archers”, which is based on his experiences during that period.

UK listeners buy the Able Archers book here

US listeners buy the Able Archers book here

Robert M. Gates, former CIA Director and Secretary of Defence describes “The Able Archers” as “a powerful reminder of the value of human judgment—and the continuing peril posed by nuclear-armed powers.”

I could really use your support to continue the podcast. A simple monthly donation will get you the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome Brian Morra to our Cold War conversation…

Brian's Web site https://brianjmorra.com/

There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode229

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations on Facebook or click here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

0:00 Introduction and background of Brian Morra

7:12 The 1983 incident involving U.S. Navy aircraft over Soviet territory

17:12 Discussion on the shooting down of the Korean airliner KAL 007

30:03 The hostile incident against the US intelligence collection aircraft

41:44 Discussion on Stanislav Petrov, the man who saved the world

56:14 Leonard Peroot's personality and professional skills and role in defusing the Able Archer 83 crisis

1:04:58 Reflection on the book's portrayal of the 3 major flashpoints of 1983

1:11:39 Recollections of decision-making during the Cold War

1:19:33 Acknowledgement of patrons and how to become a patron

1:21:03 Final goodbye

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Charlotte Philby talks about her grandfather Soviet spy Kim Philby & her book "Edith & Kim" (228) Mar 26, 2022

Show notes

In June 1934, Kim Philby met his Soviet handler, the spy Arnold Deutsch. Kim Philby was a British intelligence officer and a double agent for the Soviet Union. In 1963 he was revealed to be a member of the Cambridge Five, a spy ring that had divulged British secrets to the Soviets during World War II and in the early stages of the Cold War.

The woman who introduced Philby to Deutsch was Edith Tudor-Hart and her story has never been told.

Edith Tudor Hart changed the course of 20th-century history. Then she was written out of it.

I speak with Charlotte Philby, granddaughter of Kim Philby. Charlotte has written "Edith and Kim" which draws on the Secret Intelligence Files on Edith Tudor Hart, along with the private archive letters of Kim Philby. This finely worked, evocative and beautifully tense novel tells, for the first time, the story of the woman behind the Third Man.

We also hear from Charlotte what it was like having Kim Philby as her grandfather, including details of visits to see him in Moscow during the Cold War. It’s a fascinating insight into one of the most notorious spies of the Cold War.

Now, this podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to you.

If you’d like to continue to hear the podcast and help preserve Cold War history, you can support me via one off or monthly donations.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ for more details.

I am delighted to welcome Charlotte Philby to our Cold War conversation…

Book giveaway details further information here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode228/

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

0:00 Introduction and reflections on Kim Philby's legacy

1:03 Discussion on Kim Philby and his Soviet handler, Arnold Deutsch

4:21 Exploration of Edith Tudor-Hart's life and her connection to Kim Philby

15:27 Edith Tudor-Hart's involvement in left wing politics and the rise of fascism

18:28 Gender inequalities during the Cold War

22:31 The significance of Edith's portrait in Kim's study

31:43 Charlotte's memories of Kim Philby

35:15 The impact of Kim Philby's legacy on Charlotte's career

57:55 Edith's life as depicted through her photos

1:02:19 Comparing Edith and Kim Philby's experiences in concealing their beliefs

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