Cold War Conversations

Latest Episodes:

A daughter's 18 year search for her Cold War CIA pilot father at the Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba (247) Aug 05, 2022

Show notes

In 1961, members of the Alabama Air National Guard secretly took part in the failed invasion of Cuba by U.S.-backed Cuban exiles known as the Bay of Pigs. This was a covert attempt by the United States to overthrow the Soviet-allied Cuban government of Fidel Castro.

Pete Ray was one of eight Alabama guardsmen who flew combat missions on April 19th 1961, which resulted in the deaths of Pete and three members of the Alabama unit. U.S. President John F. Kennedy later acknowledged America's involvement but denied that American military personnel had entered Cuban territory. It was not until 1987 did the U.S. revealed that eight ANG members had indeed flown into Cuban airspace.

We hear from Pete Ray’s daughter Janet, who tirelessly worked to find out the truth of what happened that day despite the best efforts of the CIA, the Cubans, and the US government to obstruct her investigations.

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I am delighted to welcome Janet Ray to our Cold War conversation…

Photos and videos here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode247/

0:00 Introduction to the podcast and the story of the Bay of Pigs invasion

2:32 Guest Introduction: Janet Ray, daughter of Pete Ray

4:22 Pete Ray's involvement in the Bay of Pigs invasion

9:34 Aftermath of the Bay of Pigs invasion and the government's cover-up

15:03 Impact of the mercenaries' deaths on their families

18:52 The fear and paranoia in the families following the Bay of Pigs invasion

22:55 Janet's investigation into her father's death and resistance from the CIA

31:58 Janet's interactions with the Bay of Pigs pilots and Fidel Castro

47:15 The truth about Pete Ray's death and the return of his body

55:58 Wrap up and closing comments by Ian Sanders

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British Army Air Corps helicopter co-pilot in Cold War Germany (246) Jul 29, 2022

Show notes

Paul continues his story with his recruitment into the Army Air Corps. It’s initially delayed with a tour providing airfield repair in West Germany and then the Falklands, but finally, he’s at training at Middle Wallop, the home of the Army Air Corps.

He describes the training including underwater escapes, flying and navigation. As a Gazelle crewman, his role was navigator, observer and co-pilot. We hear of exercises including the lesser-known Railex/Probex, a US, French and British exercise to re-open a land corridor to West Berlin should the links be closed by Warsaw Pact forces and the British Frontier Service.

Paul’s story is again full of great anecdotes and the dangerous reality of flying low-level missions in a single-engine aircraft including a forced landing with a General on board.

0:00 Introduction and Paul's recruitment into the army air corps

1:30 Sponsor: Call for donations and listener testimonial

8:08 Discussion on practice drills and Paul's deployment to the Falklands

20:02 Surviving training and posting back to Germany

24:17 Transition to a new hangar and memorable encounter with Apache helicopters

28:34 Flying the inner German border and interception of unauthorized flights

33:42 Exercise Railex Probex: A combined US, French, and British exercise

44:08 Winning the Rolls Royce Trophy and personal experiences in the army air corps

54:24 Reflecting on the dangers of the job and the forgotten casualties of the Cold War

58:33 Importance of timing for the general's travels and emergency landing due to engine failure

1:13:59 Return to the Corps of Royal Engineers and posting back to Germany

1:21:16 Paul's sunshine tour in Gibraltar and final tours

1:21:48 Closing remarks and appreciation for patrons

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I am delighted to welcome Paul to our Cold War conversation…

Photos and videos here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode246/

Don’t miss our previous episode where Paul joins the Army as a boy soldier in the Royal Engineers here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode245/

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A boy soldier in the Cold War Royal Engineers (245) Jul 22, 2022

Show notes

Paul joined the Royal Engineers in 1977, aged 16 as an apprentice. We hear of his experience of joining the army at such a young age and being away from home for the first time.

After initial training his first posting was to Osnabruck in 1979. Shortly after his arrival Paul is appointed to the challenging role of driver to the Squadron Sergeant Major

With participation in exercises such as Crusader 80 and Active Edge Paul describes in detail the role of Royal Engineers in Cold War Germany, including mine laying, bridge demolition and fixed defence construction.

Paul’s story is full of great anecdotes and tales of the reality of life in the British Army of the Rhine.

Don’t miss our next episode where Paul joins the Army Air Corps and becomes an Aircrewman Observer on Gazelle helicopters along the Inner German Border.

0:00 Introduction to Paul's journey in the Royal Engineers

1:30 Request for support to keep the podcast running

2:31 Paul's early life and decision to join the army

9:14 Paul's arrival in Osnabruck and his role as a Land Rover driver

29:00 Paul's experiences in Germany and developing an affinity for the country

38:20 Preparation and expectations for exercise Crusader 80

47:00 Cooperation with German farmers during the exercises

59:00 The humanity of the Sergeant Major and the challenges of dispatch riders

35:33 Transition to engineering tasks during the Crusader 80 exercise

42:20 Paul's transition to support troop and working with REME workshop

51:01 Paul's career move and application for the Army Air Corps

52:56 Ian Sanders: Closing thoughts and reminders

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Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome Paul to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode245/

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A Mormon missionary in Cold War East Germany (244) Jul 14, 2022

Show notes

In the early 1980s East Germany had just 5000 members of the Church of Latter-day Saints, many of which had been members since before World War 2.

In 1982 East German leader Erich Honecker historically allowed the church to build a temple in Freiberg and in 1988 Mormon missionaries were allowed into East Germany. Ken Brady describes his experiences as a Mormon missionary in East Germany as the country gradually disappeared and was absorbed into West Germany.

Ken also gives us a valuable view of life away from Berlin in cities such as Cottbus, Gorlitz, Schwerin, Frankfurt an der Oder and Eisenhüttenstadt. It’s a fascinating story told with humour and candour as Ken grapples with local dialects, the local food and tricks with East German currency.

0:00 Introduction and Ken Brady's early interest in East Germany

7:16 The Church's operations in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall

12:24 First impressions of East Germany

21:17 Fear of the Stasi after the fall of the Berlin Wall

28:18 Encounters with locals suspecting them to be CIA agents

34:19 Sightseeing and exploring local culture on days off

42:19 Guidance on political party selection and introduction of West German products

46:17 Teaching religion to those with no prior experience

56:22 Currency Unification and its impact on East Germany

1:09:00 Ken Brady's service in West Berlin

1:18:18 The stark contrast of Soviet architecture

1:21:00 Thanking the Patrons and final remarks

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I am delighted to welcome Ken to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode244/

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Radio GDR

If you are interested in East Germany we can highly recommend our friends over at Radio GDR.

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US Navy Cold War airborne electronic reconnaissance (243) Jul 08, 2022

Show notes

KC flew the US Navy’s airborne Electronic Reconnaissance during the 1980s in the Lockheed EP-3 which is an electronic signals reconnaissance version of the P-3 Orion.

He flew as a Navigator, Senior Electronic Warfare Evaluator and Mission Commander.

We hear about several missions he was involved in including his first detachment to Athens the then main USN operating base for missions in the Mediterranean and the Adriatic.

We also hear about flying in the Baltic from bases in the UK (Mildenhall/Wyton) or FRG (Schleswig-Jagel). Flying from Keflavik in Iceland KC monitored a huge Soviet Navy exercise in the Norwegian Sea involving the Kiev, Kirov, and numerous cruisers, destroyers, and frigates.

In the 1980s Libya was claiming the Gulf of Sidra as its territorial waters and KC flew in support of “freedom of navigation” operations involving USN ships.

It’s a great insight into a relatively unknown part of Cold War air operations.

0:00 Introduction and KC's experience on the EP3

9:21 Focus on the Adriatic and Yugoslavia and Albania

15:24 The aftermath of the La Belle disco bomb attack and increased security measures

26:10 Busy month flying from Athens

32:27 Continuation of Cold War era aircraft in service today

36:15 The Achilles Lauro cruise ship hijacking, October 1985

54:25 Iowa class battleships and their role in the Cold War

1:02:12 KC's last flight in the Baltic

1:06:15 Instructions for landing in enemy territory

1:13:33 Cold War conversations on Facebook

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Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome KC to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode243/

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If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

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My life laid bare through secret police files (242) Jul 01, 2022

Show notes

What is it like to be under secret police surveillance? On 10 March 1983, 12-year-old Carmen Bugan returned from school to find Romanian secret police in her living room. Her father’s protest against the regime had changed her life forever.

In recent years Carmen gained access to the files of the Romanian secret police. She herself is surprised by the intimacy of the surveillance. Forgotten conversations, love letters, and arguments are all laid bare via the detailed notes taken by the Securitate. We hear the sadness of discovering friends and family members were involved in informing on them too.

Carmen and I discuss the “language of oppression”, the subtle and not-so-subtle methods used to try and ensure a compliant population but still thwarted by humanity even in the darkest recesses of the Romanian prison system.

It’s a warning from history and the meaning of freedom in current times.

0:00 Introduction of guest Carmen Bugan and her experience with the Romanian secret police

4:08 Carmen's first experience with the secret police at the age of twelve

10:55 Initial reactions to reading the secret police files and seeing recorded intimate details

18:28 Carmen's discovery of surveillance files and their impact

24:12 Carmen reads out a transcript from the files

33:57 Carmen on the conflicts stirred by the files

41:17 Carmen elaborates on why the secret police needed justifications for arrests

49:21 Carmen discusses how family members justified their involvement with the secret police

1:02:28 Carmen talks about the power of language to harm and inspire

1:13:33 Ian Sanders introduces Carmen Bugan's book and previous episode

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Buy the book here Carmen Bugan Books UK Listeners

Carmen Bugan books US listeners

Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation me will keep this project going and allow me to continue preserving these incredible stories. You’ll join our community, get a sought-after CWC drinks coaster as a thank you, and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome back Carmen Bugan to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode242/

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Don't miss Carmen's previous episode " A Childhood under the eye of the Secret Police" here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode147/

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Royal Military Police versus the Soviets (SOXMIS) in Cold War West Germany (241) Jun 24, 2022

Show notes

Keith Bailey Joined British Army at 16 in 1973. He was recruited into the Blues and Royals, (Household Cavalry) and served in West Germany as a gunner in Chieftain tanks.

However, he was keen to serve in the Royal Military Police and particularly 19 (Support) Platoon known as "The White Mice". Their role was to track the SOXMIS (Soviet Military Mission) in West Germany.

SOXMIS operated under a 1946 agreement where the Soviets, British, US and French agreed to exchange mission groups to patrol the opposing side’s then zones of occupation.

The agreement continued to 1990 and needless to say both sides bent the rules somewhat…

0:00 Introduction

2:35 Keith Bailey's Military Career and Transition to the Royal Military Police

16:39 The Role of the RMP during the Cold War and Bailey's Experience

19:11 Joining the 19 Support Platoon and Training

23:29 The Presence of Soviet Troops in West Germany and Interactions

38:07 Soviet Intelligence Gathering and Anecdotes

43:28 Discussion about Soviet Precautions and Protocol for Crossing Sectors

51:35 Keith's Collection of Cold War Photos and Discussion on Detaining SOXMIS Vehicles

1:07:03 Reaction to the Fall of the Berlin Wall and Post-Cold War Interactions

1:18:15 Invitation to Facebook Discussion Group and Closing Remarks

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I am delighted to welcome Keith Bailey to our Cold War conversation…

Episode notes & photos here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode241/

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The man who built his own nuclear bunker (240) Jun 17, 2022

Show notes

Graham Bate was 30-year-old Civil Servant when he built his own nuclear bunker in the garden of his rural home 20 miles outside Hull in the UK.

It was here that the Bate family expected to survive for at least 3 weeks after a nuclear attack.

We speak with Graham Bate and his son Conrad who was 5 years old when the bunker was built and has vivid memories of the period.

0:00 Introduction and background

0:53 Guest Introduction: Graham Bate and his nuclear bunker

2:26 The inception and design of Graham's bunker

7:04 Family's experience and trial run in the bunker

13:27 Reflections on the bunker project

20:10 The family's nuclear emergency plan

29:11 Security measures and local perspectives on the bunker

32:37 Living conditions in the bunker

37:03 Graham's fame and bunker building business

43:39 Impact of the Cold War on the bunker business

46:03 Learning curve and survival in a post-apocalyptic scenario

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Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will help preserve these accounts and keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

I am delighted to welcome Graham and Conrad Bate to our Cold War conversation…

There’s further information on this episode here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode240/

Special thanks to Al McCann who helped facilitate this episode. Please visit his website Northern Ireland's Secret Bunker. A Cold War 'Living' Museum situated in County Armagh https://www.facebook.com/nibunker/

If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation.

Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.

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Cold War number stations (239) Jun 10, 2022

Show notes

You might remember listening to short wave radio during the Cold War and coming across weird transmissions of metallic voices reciting random groups of numbers through the ether. These are number stations, shortwave radio stations characterised by broadcasts of formatted numbers, which were being sent to spies operating in foreign countries.

Number stations were used widely during the Cold War and we speak with Jo Reggelt. Jo has been working with Simon Mason who was a founding member of ENIGMA, launched in the 80s after identifying several of these stations.

We discuss in detail the operations behind the transmissions and the stations themselves. You will hear some sample transmissions which Jo has kindly allowed us to use, including one with drunken Stasi officers serenading their agents after the opening of the Berlin Wall.

We also detail a UK spy case that centred on capturing an agent red-handed listening to a numbers station.

There’s further information including links here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode239/

0:00 Introduction

5:06 Overview of Number Stations

20:37 Role of Agents and Attempts to Jam Number Stations

29:51 Identification and grouping of number stations

35:20 Notable Number Stations: Lincolnshire Poacher and CIA, BND Stations

43:15 The Story of Czech Spy: Erwin Van Harlem

54:41 Number Stations in Non-Aligned and NATO Nations

1:02:26 History of South Tyrol and its Role in the Cold War

1:07:27 Impact of the End of the Cold War on Number Stations

1:12:25 Influence of Number Stations on Pop Culture

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Now if you think there is a vast army of research assistants, audio engineers and producers putting together this podcast you’d be wrong. This podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to everyone for free.

If you’d like to help to preserve Cold War history and enable me to continue to produce this podcast you can via one-off or monthly donations.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ for more details.

Do join our Facebook discussion group where the cold war conversation continues between episodes. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.

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Air warfare in the Cold War (238) Jun 03, 2022

Show notes

The Cold War years were a period of unprecedented peace in Europe, yet they also saw a number of localised but nonetheless very intense wars throughout the wider world in which air power played a vital role.

I speak with former Cold War Tornado pilot and acclaimed aviation historian Michael Napier who has written Flashpoints: Air Warfare in the Cold War published by Osprey which describes eight of these Cold War conflicts.

We discuss the wide range of aircraft types used and the development of tactics over a period of revolution in aviation technology and design which saw some of the most modern technology that the NATO and Warsaw Pact forces deployed.

UK listeners buy the book here

US listeners buy the book here

0:00 Introduction

2:08 Introduction of guest Michael Napier and discussion on the importance of personalizing conflicts

7:18 Deep dive into the Suez and Congo conflicts

14:54 Role of the UN's air force in conflicts and the impact of combat aircraft

24:08 Introduction to the Indo-Pakistan wars and the Arab-Israeli wars

34:22 The toll of war on pilots and the international nature of conflicts

35:59 Overview of the Iran-Iraq War

40:53 The Falklands War: Initial reactions, strategies, and impact

50:34 Closing remarks, acknowledgments, and store promotion

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