Bourbon Pursuit

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Latest Episodes:

184 - Fake Pappy, Fraud Sommeliers, and Bunker Clutter on Bourbon Community Roundtable #28 Jan 17, 2019

Show notes

There's yet another FAKE PAPPY ALERT! Yes, it's true and it's not going to be the last time either. Fakers are getting better and we talk about the most recent scandal with an employee of Buffalo Trace who has allegedly been selling counterfeit Pappy on the secondary market. And if you've been buying too much, maybe you should be watching Tidying Up on Netflix. Then we dig into the certification game that's happening. Is there really such a thing as a Whiskey Sommelier or is it just a hoax for your money and some large medallion? We finish off the conversation saying goodbye to Kerry and wish him well.

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about whiskey marketing
Fake Pappy and the secondary market
Netflix's Tidying Up and how it relates to bourbon bunkers
What is the definition of a Whiskey Sommelier?
Whiskey Jug Article: http://thewhiskeyjug.com/whiskey/what-is-a-whiskey-sommelier/
Whiskey samples and reviews
Goodbye to Kerry

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183 - Big Money and Bourbon with Chuck Morton, Bourbon Venture Capitalist Jan 10, 2019

Show notes

Chuck Morton is a Bourbon Venture Capitalist with the Bourbon Bank Fund backed by Venture First. This episode compliments barrel sourcing from episode 182 on building a brand. But where do you get the funds? Is a traditional bank the way to go? Or with someone like our guest who knows how to put collateral on barrels of whiskey in return for dollars? Learn how to become a start up in the bourbon world and the common mistakes seen when looking for investors.

Show Notes:

The week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the need to drink responsibly
What is Venture First? What is the Bourbon Bank Fund?
So you're not in this to lose money?
What does SPV mean?
What is your ideal customer?
Why come to you instead of a bank?
What did people do before when they were interested in expanding?
How are customers responding?
Are you lending to companies with no juice that just want to create a startup?
How do you approach a startup that doesn't have a proven product?
What are some common mistakes that you notice when distilleries are getting started or jumping from one level to the next?
Do you feel the market might be saturated or is the there room for growth in bourbon?
What data are your analysts using to determine trends?
How did the idea come about?
Do you see a bunch of defaults on the horizon?
Are you allowed to work with people outside of Kentucky?
How much does the name Kentucky come into an evaluation?
Do you have a bullshit meter when people come to you with a proposal?
What’s the worst pitch you've heard?
If someone like Dave Pickerell came in, would it be a turn on or turn off?
Are you looking for people that value the whiskey over the experience?
Tell us about your investments in cooperages and rickhouses.
How can you compete against Buzick for rickhouse building?
What kind of return is coming to the owner on an investment?
Are there signs that a distillery is about to sell?
Are you receiving dividends?
Would you prefer a distillery that is turning a good profit or one that intends on being acquired?
How much do you need to start a distillery?

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182 - Exposing the Secrets of Bourbon Sourcing with Jeff Hopmayer, of Brindiamo Group Jan 03, 2019

Show notes

An insider exclusive where you get to see what happens behind the scenes of the bourbon business. Bourbon sourcing isn't a new concept but it's a hidden fortress of the industry the average consumer has no clue about. Jeff Hopmayer of Brindiamo Group tells us some of the tricks of the trade in the barrel sourcing world, how he has created a connected web across the world to get people access to any spirit, and how he has seen fake bourbon come from tankers that would fool even the best master distillers. He has helped brands like Kentucky Owl, Bardstown Bourbon Company, Barrell Bourbon and many more. This episode is one you can't miss.

Show Notes:

How did you cut your teeth in the industry?
Talk about BRINDIAMO GROUP and some of the services you offer to the spirits industry?
Can you talk about the evolution of sourcing?
How hard is it to come by barrels now?
How are you getting your hands on 12-14 year old bourbon when the demand couldn't be higher?
So you can do transaction tomorrow for $15million?
Are you looking to create blends or brands with an intent of selling?
Say we want to create a brand called Old Ascot. Where do we start?
How do you gauge if a barrel is worth the investment?
Brass tacks, what's a barrel cost?
When you get a barrel and it's big cost. Do you ever get a leaky or an empty barrel?
How many brands are you supplying that are non-distilling producers?
What's the typical acquisition of barrel amounts?
How many barrels do you have in inventory?
Are you buying a lot of younger barrels and waiting and aging?
What's the level of risk introduced from buying barrels with younger distilleries that don't have a proven track record?
Do you think there are NDPs that may not actually have bourbon in their bottles?
Can you give us a percentage of what you think that's out there is fake bourbon?
How much is stuff being reclaimed from overseas?
Do you think should consumers should know if it was reclaimed?
You've got very successful brands like Kentucky Owl, Barrell Bourbon, and Bardstown Bourbon Company as lighthouse customers that our listeners are familiar with. At what stage were you helping these brands out?
What contributes to not being successful?
What's your long term view on where this market is going?
You seem to think $50+ is the successful strategy for pricing products. That seems steep to us.
Are you concerned this may price out those true bourbon consumers?
Are manufacturing costs and trading hands contribute to a higher cost?
How do you buy barrels on the open market? Is there a dashboard of what's available like the stock market online or is it an old boys club?
Talk about the 1792 Barton Warehouse collapse. Were those barrels owned by you or the distiller and what happens in that scenario?
Is there a distillery NOT selling their whiskey on the open market?
Any other states besides KY, IN, and TN that has a lot of whiskey on open market?

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181 - Brand Management and Market Data with Larry Kass of Heaven Hill Dec 27, 2018

Show notes

Larry Kass has done it all at Heaven Hill. Public relations, brand management, legal, and even more behind the scenes rolls over his 20 year career. Larry first made an appearance on the podcast back on episode 167. You're going to hear about growing some small family run operation managing a few brands turned into hundreds, how the infamous Rittenhouse Rye 21, 23, and 25 year bottling came into existence, the disappearance of Heaven Hill 6yr BIB, and the original partnership with the Kentucky Distillers Association before it was a real thing. This is a real piece of history and we wish Larry years of relaxation in his retirement. Show Notes:

This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon Geek Pricing
Fred, tell us a little about Larry
Let’s start at the beginning. Before coming into Heaven Hill did you have a fascination of spirits?
We’re you doing the job of 45 people back then?
Did you ever find a knack for brown and aged goods?
Who really stood out for you?
What was marketing like for whiskey back in 1998?
Talk about the Rittenhouse Rye 21, 23, and 25 years
What do you think of the secondary market?
Do you all use it as market data?
Is that why we saw the end to Heaven Hill 6yr Bottled In Bond?
Give us a story about a writer that pissed you off over the years
Do you think Heaven Hill has done a poor job at PR over the past few years to whiskey geeks?
Who are the leakers?
Fred has feelings of remorse about Elijah Craig 12
Take us through the days of high aged stuff like Martin Mills 24 year that were part of the export market.
As a brand manager, how much influence do you have into the final product?
You’re part of the original KDA partnership
Can you leave bourbon? What’s the retirement plan?
What's the proudest thing you accomplished in your career?

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180 - 2018 Whiskey of the Year and 2019 Predictions on Bourbon Community Roundtable #27 Dec 20, 2018

Show notes

It's one of our favorite episodes of the year. The Roundtable takes a look back at Bourbon in 2018 and our picks for Whiskey of the Year. We then kick off the second half of the show with our predictions for 2019 about expansions, acquisitions, price increases, and lots more...including our favorite 90s and 2000s rap artists. Show Notes:

This weeks Above the Char with Fred Minnick has him answering random questions off twitter.
2018 Year in Review
What was your whiskey of the year
What is your greatest accomplishment of 2018?
Vintage Spirits Law came into effect in KY
We picked our first barrel together
Longbranch made it's Wild Turkey debut
Brian won a case with Castle & Key against Sazerac over the Old Taylor distillery name
2019 Predictions
Banned Crotchshots in Bourbonr and now he's looking for the next great suggestion to improve the group for 2019
Lots of year end expansions being announced in 2018. Do we expect more in 2019?
Will prices continue to grow? Four Roses Private Barrel program increase starts Jan 1.
Henry McKenna won SF Spirits comp in 2018. Will the Henry McKenna fad pass in 2019?
Denny Potter left Heaven Hill for Maker's Mark in 2018. Will Heaven Hill find a new Master Distiller? Is there an issue if they don't find one in a timely fashion?
Then we finish talking about 90s and 2000s rap icons

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179 - Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs, Sox, and Bourbon with ESPN Chicago Radio Host Carmen DeFalco Dec 13, 2018

Show notes

What do the Bears, Blackhawks, Cubs, Sox, and Bourbon have in common? That's life for Carmen DeFalco, ESPN Chicago Radio host of Carmen and Jurko. Carmen and Kenny were introduced over twitter and through Carmen's tweet storm of local sports, he has a following of people that want to know more about bourbon. Carmen joins the show to talk about his Chicago hunting tales and when he breaks open big bottles for Stanley Cup victories.

Show Notes:

We had some trouble getting started and we now see our kids can navigate technology better
Talk about your radio show, Carmen and Jurko on ESPN Radio Chicago. http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/3095452
What's your bourbon story?
Your Dad was in the wholesale business. Did that have a big influence?
Were your friends at 21 making fun of you for being a whiskey drinker?
Has it flipped where people now go to your house and rummage through your whiskey collection?
Are you more of a Binny's person or do you have your hole in the walls?
How long have you been going through the cycle of traveling and hunting?
Maker's Mark is like a gateway into this world. What was next for you?
Can you remember any of those resources you used when you started learning more about bourbon?
How much do you talk about bourbon on the air?
What's really becoming more hard to find?
Do you ever drink on air?
Do you have a particular whiskey to align with what sport your watching?
Now that you have had some older vintages you could use those as trading for better values
Do you get chastised for not being a cubs fan?
Bourbon and Bacon Fundraiser Event - https://chicagobourbonandbacon.eventscff.org/
Follow Carmen on Twitter - https://twitter.com/carmendefalco

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178 - Remembering Four Roses and The Rebirth of Cream of Kentucky with Jim Rutledge Dec 06, 2018

Show notes

Jim Rutledge is a household name in bourbon because his wealth of knowledge is unsurpassed and famed history of reviving Four Roses. We talk about those days and ask him why he really left something so great. But, there's a new chapter to write! This week his TTB label for a revival of an old brand, Cream of Kentucky, was approved. We talk about this bourbon, where it's headed, as well as the entire industry on this new exclusive episode.

Show Notes:

This weeks Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the importance of social media and online forums by whiskey geeks.
New TTB Laws wrap-up by Sku on K&L wines blog. https://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2018/12/3/ttb-proposes-new-regulations-modernizing-alcohol-labeling
Episode 011 and 012 with Jim Rutledge
Rewind us back to your retirement because it seemed like you didn't want to stay retired for long
What's your involvement at Castle and key?
Whatever happened to that rye?
Did you see a different passion at Castle & Key while it was building vs Four Roses that was a well-oiled engine?
What sort of corners were being cut at Seagrams at the time when you were trying to turn it around?
Talk about rebuilding the brand of Four Roses through acquisition, fighting, and more.
Be straight. Why did you leave Four Roses?
Did you stand up a lot to upper management?
It sounded like Four Roses was family. So why leave?
Is it hard to work at a distillery where you're only filling 3 barrels a day?
Did you hire Brent Elliott?
What was your relationship with Brent while at Four Roses?
How does one go about becoming your #2?
Talk about funding and how to raise money to build a distillery?
Talk about Cream of Kentucky and the history of the label
Cream of Kentucky TTB filing - https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=18325001000092
Where is the growth going to be for this particular label?
Where do you see the American whiskey category trending over the next 5 years?

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177 - Palate Training and Whiskey Row History with Jackie Zykan, Master Taster at Old Forester Nov 29, 2018

Show notes

The Whiskey Row series of Old Forester represent pivotal dates in history for the brand. Deciding how to make them coincide with flavor profiles takes a Master Taster. Jackie Zykan returns to the show as we discuss sensory training and how to sniff out binders at our local stores before diving into the Whiskey Row series and trying 1910 Old Fine Whiskey. We wrap up the show talking about President's Choice and if dusties inspire or not.

Show Notes:

Do you have a new title now?
Talk about the sensory training
What’s different about going through this process versus just drinking bourbon everyday?
What tips can you give to someone about learning to nose?
How do you know when a barrel ready to be pulled?
How much time are you spending at the distillery vs bottling vs anywhere else for tasting?
Talk about why you dilute so low for tasting?
So you have this really cool story about Old Forester 86 and 100 history
Talk about the Whiskey Row series
The dates all mean something
What was the idea to make permanent line extensions instead of doing the money grab on limited releases?
So in a time when people say there is a bourbon shortage, what's your response to that?
Talk about 1910 and what happened that year
Do you pay attention to the Facebook and bourbon forums out there?
Why not have a 2014 series to commemorate the new distillery?
Talk about President's Choice and your integral part in it
What’s your ideal bourbon profile?
What’s the oldest Brown-Forman product you’ve tried?

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176 - Distillery Expansions and Sticker Game Gone Wrong on Bourbon Community Roundtable #26 Nov 22, 2018

Show notes

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Share those bottles and create some memories with your loved ones. There's a few interesting topics in the news this week. We touch on distillery expansions of Heaven Hill and Kentucky Owl while diving into the second part of this segment on the hottest topic of all, single barrel stickers. Show Notes:

Bourbon Pursuit Private Barrel Club information - https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
C+C Pursuit Series Episodes 001 and 002 will be released soon - http://pursuitspirits.com/
This week's Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about being a good bourbon steward as Santa comes to town.
Heaven Hill announces $65 million expansion - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/heaven-hill-announces-65-million-plan-to-expand-distillery-experience-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/
KY OWL Park renderings and their pyramid rackhouses. $150 million. https://www.kentucky.com/news/business/article183535861.html
Kentucky Owl Park Video - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/videos/256139931742168/
Can $300 bourbons and $200 ryes be able to sustain this long-term?
Superfly Bourbon Club came out with a retro Knob Creek label that completely covered up the Knob Creek label. Is this legal?
More on stickers is the 101st label done by RareBird101
Honest Thoughts: One & A Century - https://rarebird101.com/2018/11/18/one-a-century/
David Jennings gives us the inside scoop on a new Wild Turkey book!

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175 - Turkey Family Tradition with Jimmy Russell, Eddie Russell, Bruce Russell, and JoAnn Street of Wild Turkey Nov 15, 2018

Show notes

Just the thing you needed to kick start your Thanksgiving season. We've had Jimmy and Eddie on the show and we've got upcoming episodes featuring Bruce and Joann, but I don't think anyone has ever had all 4 of these people sit down at one time and talk. We go into bourbon itself, the family, the roles they are playing within the business, the new Kentucky Spirit glass design, and lots more. It's a family affair with some exchanges of compliments from each around the table. Show Notes:

Our first barrel pick for 2019 is going to be Buffalo Trace. View all of our barrel picks at https://www.patreon.com/bourbonpursuit
Fred published his article in Forbes for the 2018 best American Whiskey every day sipper.
Fred does Instagram Live for Best of 2018
Fred talks about his holiday gift guide on Forbes and why it was really hard to coming up new pairings in this week's Above the Char - https://www.forbes.com/sites/fredminnick/2018/11/13/holiday-gift-guide-2018-the-most-money-minded-bourbons/
Bruce, they are really pressuring you to move back soon
Bruce, remember that panel we were on together?
Are you excited to have Bruce back Eddie?
Jimmy, how old were you when you started at the distillery?
What has changed from the operations standpoint from when you first started?
Have you all done recently to certify your warehouses or check them out after the Barton incident?
Jimmy when you were coming up the ranks, federal government would check everything. Not so much anymore
Do you think the distilling industry misses the oversight of the government?
What does "Master Distiller" mean to you, Eddie?
What about the flip side that a "Master Distiller" is just a marketer now?
You did have to change the entry proof at one time. Was that corporate pressure?
Why does some proof go down vs go up in some warehouses?
When people come in for a visit, do they want that level of detail?
Do you read your Yelp reviews?
Is the bartending community the gate to your future?
What's the worst part about signing bottles?
Where do you see barrel finishes in the Wild Turkey line since the last Master's Keep was finished?
It seems like a lot of flavored whiskeys have died down over time
Why are we still not experimenting with different mashes?
Bruce, you're trying to revive the rye. talk about that.
Are you a scotch person?
Jimmy, what have you learned by the younger generations?
From RareBird101, what's your honest opinion on the new Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit bottle?
So why isn't the top level listening to you?
Choose an individual and take one word that embodies the person
View all Wild Turkey Podcasts

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