Bourbon Pursuit

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Latest Episodes:

194 - Going Down the Rabbit Hole with Kaveh Zamanian, Founder of Rabbit Hole Distillery Mar 28, 2019

Show notes

Starting a new bourbon brand is tough, especially when you are in the backyard of the biggest dogs in the industry. However, Kaveh Zamanian saw a hole in the market where he could bring new mash bills and new experiences to bourbon drinkers. As the founder of Rabbit Hole Distillery, he has faced some criticism but is taking it head on in this episode. We talk about the startup hustle, contract distilling, pricing strategies, their 5 year roadmap and more.

Show Notes:

San Francisco World Spirits Competition - https://bourbonpursuit.com/2018/04/12/144-judging-san-francisco-world-spirits-competition-anthony-dias-blue/
“Bourbon & Thoroughbred Infused” Lean Management Training Certification Course from April 22-23, 2019. http://solarity.com/lean
Pursuit Spirits on ModernThirst.com. https://modernthirst.com/2019/03/22/pursuit-spirits-video-tasting-with-kenny-of-bourbon-pursuit/
The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon BBQ potato chips.
Let’s start from the beginning. Talk about your introduction to bourbon.
When you first met your wife, were you intimidated?
What made you want to go down the path of opening a distillery?
What did you want to change when you got in the bourbon industry?
How did you get the ball rolling?
Did everyone think you were crazy?
How do you outline expectations to investors?
Do you think it is challenging for someone from outside of Kentucky to build a distillery in Kentucky?
What was your motivation for building the distillery vs. sourcing?
Can you disclose who was contract distilling for you?
How did you come up with your recipe?
Can you explain the difference between malted grain and a regular grain source?
How do you know your mash bill will be good years down the road?
Talk about being added to the official Kentucky Bourbon Trail.
Do you think you are beyond being a craft distiller now?
Do you want to see TTB define the term small batch?
What are you all doing differently that would entice visitors to come check our Rabbit Hole?
When people see the name Kaveh Zamanian, do you think the general public has an unfair bias?
How hard is it to build a brand or story when you had no connection to the industry until recently?
Since you have a psychology background, can you give us a breakdown of the bourbon consumer?
Who are your early adopters?
How do you deal with negative feedback?
Talk about your pricing strategy?
How old is most of your whiskey?
What keeps you from putting the age statement on the bottle?
How do your products stand out in a crowded market?
Talk about your relationship with Death & Co.
Do you think there is any confusion among whiskey geeks about your product being for cocktails vs. sipping neat?
What story do you want consumer to know when they see your product?
What are your long term goals for the brand? Any intentions of selling it off?
Tell us about your roadmap. What is going to be happening with the brand in 5 years?
What can visitors expect when they visit Rabbit Hole?
What is your connection with cigars?
How did you come up with the name Rabbit Hole?

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193 - Distilling Whiskey with Hops, Marko Karakasevic of Charbay Mar 21, 2019

Show notes

Charbay is changing things up. To be a Master Distiller in the Karakasevic family, you must meet or exceed your predecessors ability. Marko decided to try to make whiskey with a brewer’s key ingredient, hops! However, some folks in the whiskey world don’t think it should classify as one. This podcast digs into his history and what types of beer styles can turn into delicious whiskey.

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
How did your family get started in this business?
Did you have a choice to not be a distiller?
What's an eau de vie?
Do you clog the still up with hops?
Is there a breakdown of grains you use in your beer?
Have you done any experiments with other beers?
Why do you age in stainless?
What is the formula approval process like with TTB?
How many styles are you going to do?
What is your go to beer style?
What is your response to people who say Charbay isn't a true whiskey?
What do you have aging now?
What justifies the high price point for you releases?
Any business growth plans?
Where does the name Charbay come from?
Where are you distributed?

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192 - Moonshiners, Jim Beam Legent, and Weller Full Proof on Bourbon Community Roundtable #30 Mar 14, 2019

Show notes

The roundtable welcomes Jackie James, of @JackieJames on IG and Creator of HerWhiskey.com, as a panelist this week. We talk with Tim Jones about his new show on the Discovery Channel, Moonshiners: Whiskey Business. We also discuss the new Jim Beam Legent and Weller Full Proof because who doesn't love a little bit of controversy?

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Captain Kirk.
Join Kenny and Ryan at The Louisville Bourbon Society meeting on 3/18. https://admin.associationsonline.com/secure/events_register.cfm
What bottle got you into whiskey, Jackie?
Tim Jones tells us about Discovery Channel's new show, Moonshiners: Whiskey Business.
Does the show follow a formula?
What is your primary role on the show?
How do you help with marketing?
What is important to getting the customer to pick up that first bottle?
How can brands stand out on the shelf?
Take us through the distiller selection process.
Is the whiskey ready from these distilleries? Has it been aged long enough?
Do you think Virginia will ever be able to compete with Kentucky?
Did you have any input on pricing on the show?
Jim Beam is releasing Legent, a collaboration between Fred Noe and Shinji Fukuyo.
Does this new release excite you?
What do you think of the price point?
Do you look at this product as a marketing opportunity?
What is your stance on blending?
Do you think the Weller Full Proof line extension is going to be a good thing?
Do you think Weller is listening to their fans by creating a full proof version?
Let's talk about the EH Taylor Amaranth.
Thanks to Bourbonr.com, BreakingBourbon.com, HerWhsikey.com, and TimJonesCreative.com for joining the roundtable.

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191 - Blending Your Way to a Brand with Trey and Chet Zoeller of Jefferson's Bourbon Mar 07, 2019

Show notes

Trey Zoeller makes his return and we are also joined by his father, Chet Zoeller. We go back in time, before Jefferson's Bourbon was established, to see how the Co-Founders sourced whiskey. We look at the current landscape to see if they feel pressure as sourcing becomes much harder when distilleries want to hang on to current stocks and people with deeper pockets enter the industry. We delve into Chet's past by talking about prohibition era whiskey and ask if he thinks Jefferson's Ocean is a gimmick. Trey and Chet provide knowledge behind growing a business and making pivots to find new opportunities.

Show Notes:

Join Bourbon Pursuit on March 16th at The Louisville Bourbon Society meeting - http://www.thebourbonsociety.org/
The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about getting caught up in the moment.
Talk about growing up around bourbon.
What made you think getting into bourbon was going to work?
Does 25 year old Irish Whiskey take on as much oak as bourbon in the US?
How did you go about sourcing barrels?
Chet, talk about your books and how you are a historian.
Did you think Jefferson's would be as successful as it is today?
What roadblocks did you hit?
Did you feel like you were pricing it too high at first?
What’s the next big hurdle for bourbon to take over scotch?
Are many brands underselling themselves today?
What flavor profile were you aiming for when you started Jefferson's?
Did you start off selling in Kentucky only?
Talk about the first blending experience.
How did you name Old Iron Skillet?
Do you have any tips on blending?
If you tap into a barrel that isn't good, how can you know it will be better in a few years?
Tell us about all the moving parts of sourcing whiskey.
Do you have a turf war problem when sourcing?
What did you think of Trey’s Ocean experiment. Was it a gimmick?
Tell us about the double barrel and twin oak.
Do you think there is an opportunity for line extensions?
How did the New Orleans experiment turn out?
Talk about your pet sharks.

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190 - The Store Pick King with Jamie Farris of Lincoln Road Feb 28, 2019

Show notes

Jamie Farris might be known as The Store Pick King. Lincoln Road out of Hattiesburg, MS is a hidden gem for those in the know. Depending on the day, Jamie might have 70 or more available store picks at one time. This episode digs into his barrel pick strategies, how distilleries have changed in treating their single barrel customers, and how he handles the “aficionados” that visit his store and leave with nothing.

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about influencers.
Tell us how you got into bourbon and owning a liquor store.
Talk about dry county Mississippi. Were you trying to get moonshine?
How many store picks do you have available?
How do you get so many private barrels?
Who's cut you back on getting some barrels?
Does that upset you a little bit since you sort of started this craze?
Has the Mississippi allocation decreased or do you have to share the pie with more people?
What year did you get in the private barrel game?
What single barrel program does the best job?
Do you approach this the same as you did 5 years ago when you could reject barrels?
How often are you rejecting barrel samples?
Are you blending because single barrels are getting boring?
The next step is creating your own label, are looking into creating one?
Do you think you put Hattiesburg on the map?
Some of the Lincoln Road picks are credited to Misty. Explain who Misty is.
Do you think there is a market for collaboration picks?
Is there another category that's growing with a fan base like bourbon?
How do you explain the Maker's Mark 46 barrel program to someone who isn't a bourbon geek?
What are most whiskey/bourbon shoppers looking for? The average shopper vs the “bourbon/whiskey aficionado”.
Why do Mississippi legislatures think tastings once a quarter is a good idea?
How annoying does it get to have these "aficionados" come in and leave with nothing?
Do you foresee an end to the craziness?
What are some current or emerging trends in whiskey/bourbon?
Do think it will be a problem in the future when these places run out of MGP?
Do you feel it's not your obligation to push craft whiskey?
Do you think stores should price at secondary?

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189 - Turkey Tell All with Master Distiller Eddie Russell of Wild Turkey Feb 21, 2019

Show notes

Eddie Russell from Wild Turkey needs no introduction. He’s one of the most honest Master Distillers in the industry and tells it like it is. This episode digs into the nuances of the Wild Turkey line up to see if we can figure out what could change. The biggest answer we all want to know is when will there be a barrel proof Russell’s Reserve? Tune in to find out.

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about value whiskey.
How often are you going to Jimmy with questions?
Do you feel like you have the job down?
When you retire do you think you will hang around the distillery like Jimmy?
Do you feel like you have to work at the distillery?
Since you travel so much, what airline are you loyal to?
When you travel, do you wear Wild Turkey gear?
Are there any travel destinations that have stood out to you?
Do you get to have any fun when you travel?
Are there any plans for changing barrel proof entry?
How can you not get 101 proof out of bourbon that goes in a 110?
What is the thought process behind where in the rickhouse you place the barrels to age?
Is 108 your target for Rare Breed?
How many barrels are being dumped into Rare Breed?
Talk about the warehouses. Do you see a difference in the whiskey coming out of the brick warehouses?
How often do you get the chance to take a gamble?
Do you see 81 still being prevalent in the market place?
How many more derivatives do you think you can do?
Are you wanting to bring in another recipe?
Will we ever see a barrel strength Russell's Reserve?
Do you enjoy picking barrels with consumers?
Talk about the proof difference between Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit and Russell's Reserve.
Tell us about the partnership with Matthew McConaughey.
Is it a goal to bring back the 8-year-old age statement?

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188 - Supreme Court Fueling the Bourbon Boom on Bourbon Community Roundtable #29 Feb 14, 2019

Show notes

Will the U.S Supreme Court completely change alcohol sales across the country? The case of The Ketchum Family and Total Wine vs the State of Tennessee could bring interstate commerce parity and break down all the shipping law restrictions. The Roundtable’s legal counsel of Sipp’n Corn explains it in laymen terms while we discuss the opportunity this could present to retailers like Amazon. We keep the legal discussion going with KY House Bill 200 that would allow distilleries to have releases that don’t go to retail stores. Then we wrap it up with a hypothetical question of what would you do if you are creating your own whiskey label?

Show Notes:

The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about new bourbon drinkers.
Total Wine vs State of TN in the Supreme Court and what that means for nationwide shipping.
House Bill 200 in KY is pushing for distilleries to have something unique that doesn't make its way to distribution. Does it actually compete with liquor stores?
Say you are creating your own whiskey label. Do you create something new or do you try to revive an old defunct brand?
Thanks to Bourbonr.com, BreakingBourbon.com, Sippncorn.com, and TheBourbonBabe.com for joining the roundtable.

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187 - Whiskey Smackdown with WWE Superstar Aiden English Feb 07, 2019

Show notes

Matt Rehwoldt, or better known as WWE Superstar Aiden English, is finding a passion in bourbon with WrestlingWithWhiskey Instagram and YouTube series. Matt was in town for a live event so we took the opportunity to invite him over to talk about wrestling and whiskey. We discuss a his career, personal life, and of course, when bourbon became an obsession. His traveling schedule has turned him into a national bourbon hunter and he's got some stories to tell.

Show Notes:

Find Bourbon Pursuit on Pandora
Learn more about Pursuit Series
Derby Museum Legends Series
Bourbon Pursuit presenting at The Louisville Bourbon Society on 3/18
The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about limited edition whiskey advertising.
How did you get into whiskey?
Is Wrestling with Whiskey the real you?
Have your trips turned into adventures with side stops for Bourbon hunting?
Have you connected with a store yet and built those relationships?
Talk about how you got into wrestling.
What demographic is the WWE fan base?
South Park did a spoof of wrestling. Talk about the state of wrestling and how it’s perceived as choreography.
Tell us about your wife.
Were you nervous when you married into the top wrestling tree?
What’s your persona in the ring?
Have you ever thought about changing your persona?
Is WWE against alcohol being portrayed?
How have you been received on social media when sharing posts about wrestling and bourbon?
Have you ever been stalked?
Are you using Instagram to connect with fans and let them see the real you behind the scenes?

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186 - Michter's Masters with Pam Heilmann and Andrea Wilson Jan 31, 2019

Show notes

We have both Masters from Michter's today. Andrea Wilson was a guest back on Episode 47, and she makes her return with a new role as Master of Maturation. We dig into chemical compounds and wood effects on their bourbon. In addition, we have Pam Heilmann, the current Master Distiller, and we talk about her past at the Booker Noe plant and what they are doing at Michter's. We touch on the new Fort Nelson Distillery and dive into the topics the whiskey geeks care about like limited high age expressions, barrel proof releases, and if could we ever expect to see a single barrel program? Listen to all of our Michter's podcasts at https://bourbonpursuit.com/michters-podcasts/

Show Notes:

Buffalo Trace's Virtual Reality Tour
Conor O’Driscoll Joins Heaven Hill Distillery as Fifth Master Distiller
Pursuit Series Episodes 3 through 7 are available for purchase. Visit https://pursuitspirits.com/episodes/
The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon and teething.
What does Master of Maturation mean?
How did you get into whiskey?
What’s a relief supervisor?
Can you train your palate or is it a natural ability?
Is the tasting panel the best job?
What are the engineers bringing to the table?
How much still time do you have?
Is Willie Pratt still in the picture?
What does toasted mean?
Why don't you make barrel strength bourbon all the time?
Why hasn't Michter's started a single barrel program?
How long have you been distilling here?
What is your plan for your distillate?
Was there some fine tuning performed on the still?
Are you just making Bourbon? Or are you making Rye, Malt, anything else?
Tell us about the Shenk's and Bomberger's lines.
Are you all looking forward to the new visitor experience?

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185 - Famous Staves with Brad Boswell, CEO of Independent Stave Company Jan 24, 2019

Show notes

A Bourbon Pursuit exclusive! Brad Boswell, CEO and 4th Generation Cooper at Independent Stave Company, rarely does any media coverage so we are ecstatic to not only capture his family story, but how they take customer service to the extreme and continue to invest in research and development to push the bounds of today’s bourbon. If you've ever wanted to know the extent of oak influence on whiskey, this one touches every aspect from types of wood, the building process, charring, and finishing.

Show Notes:

Learn more about Pursuit Series
The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Bourbon at Great Wolf Lodge
How did you grow into this business?
When you were young did you have a feeling of your family's legacy in the cooperage industry?
Did you family ever lobby to have the law put in place for new charred oak barrels?
How has your family been able to maintain business all these years?
What other side business have you had in the past?
Have whiskey barrels always been the hallmark for your company?
Talk about the size of your operation.
Has the waiting list died down a little bit? Any issues meeting demand?
What’s the process look like for bringing on a new client?
Tell us the story of Maker's 46 from your perspective.
Talk about the process of making a barrel.
What are the differences between various oaks, French vs. American vs. Japanese?
Do you have customers that prefer KY barrels vs MO?
Why do you keep innovating?
Are there any other core states you are harvesting oak from right now?
Tell us about Oregon oak.
What’s the wackiest spot you've gotten an oak tree from?
Tourism has changed over the years, what has that been like for ISC and what is the future?
What experiments are you doing with the barrels?
Do customers ever get upset about other companies copying their barrel finishes?
What's a barrel experiment that ended with a bad result?
How can you control the variables?
How long can you char a barrel?
How many times can you reuse a barrel?
Where are we in the growth of American Whiskey?

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