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Bloomberg Surveillance: Bank Earnings Kick Off Jan 12, 2024

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Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets Large Cap Bank Analyst, and Ken Leon, CFRA Director of Equity Research, break down Friday's 4Q bank earnings releases that included record NII for JPMorgan and disappointing results for Citi. Norman Roule, Center for Strategic & International Studies Senior Adviser, discusses the latest in the Middle East after the US and UK launched airstrikes against Houthi rebels in Yemen. Mohamed El-Erian, Bloomberg Opinion Columnist, overviews his outlook on global markets and says he expects consumer inflation to get stuck at 3%. Michael Nathanson, MoffettNathanson Sr. Research Analyst, discusses the latest in sports streaming after a strong year for NFL viewership.
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Bloomberg Surveillance: Inflation Accelerates Jan 11, 2024

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Dana Peterson, The Conference Board Chief Economist, breaks down December's hotter-than-expected US consumer inflation data. Erika Najarian, UBS Large-Cap Banks & Consumer Finance Equity Research Analyst, previews Friday's bank earnings releases. Michael Collins, PGIM Fixed Income Senior Portfolio Manager, predicts the Fed will wait to cut interest rates. Norman Roule, Center for Strategic & International Studies Senior Adviser, discusses the latest in the Middle East as tensions continue to escalate.

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Bloomberg Surveillance: Inside Boeing's 'Mistake' Jan 10, 2024

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Sheila Kahyaoglu, Jefferies Senior Equity Research Analyst, discusses the latest on Boeing and the airlines sector amid a nationwide grounding of the 737 Max 9 aircraft. Seema Shah, Principal Asset Management Chief Global Strategist, expects a positive nominal growth environment and a continued fall in inflation. Kathy Bostjancic, Nationwide Mutual Insurance Chief Economist, says a mild recession is still a possibility despite strong economic data. Matthew Bartlett, Darby Field Advisors Principal & Republican strategist, previews the final GOP debate before the Iowa Caucuses begin on Monday. Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. Sign up now: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/surveillance Full Transcript:This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene, along with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day for insight from the best an economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. Where are Boeing Aircraft made? I believe it's Renton, Washington where they were tuned into the college football game here a while back. The seven thirty seven comes out of Reton, Washington. An expert on that is Sheila Kiglu, senior equity research analyst at Jeffreys and joins us this morning. Have you been to Reton, Washington? I have. There's three production lines. The third one just opened up, so if you think about it, each one of those turns out fifteen to seventeen max's per month. The fourth one will open next year and ever at about an hour and a half away from Renton. So I want you to speak and I don't want you to talk about all your leverage finance work at JP Morgan and your wonderful work at Jefferys, your award winning work and institutional investor forget about it. Our listeners and viewers want to know where's the problem and is it easy to fix? Is it rent in Washington or is it the fuselage riveters in Kansas. I think the problem is the pandemic deteriorated their aerospace workforce not so much. And I mean the problem is in Renton, not only at the Boeing factory, but the small Tier three, Tier four suppliers around there. They're seeing strain on their workforce. The problem has been really focused over the last year in Spirit in Wichita, with three incidents either on the Max or the eight to seven involving quality issues. So there's been management changes there to address those quality issues, and I think that's really the focus item. Given we've seen small improvements in the engine manufacturers and the Tier three, this sounds absolutely shocking when I start to hear about this, At least for ask this question earlier in the week. I'd love your response to it. Are we suggesting that things are safe but not as safe as they were before the pandemic? Now in this industry, I think the industry is having a tough time recruit you know, getting back up to post pandemic levels, and you know we're manufacturing. In September, we were only manufacturing in the teens a month on these max is when we were supposed to be at thirty eight a month. So we essentially, you know, in December deliveries were forty four. Half of that was out of inventory, half of it was actual production. So we basically doubled output in three months, right, we were trying to double output. So there's a stream, given air traffic is back to one hundred percent of twenty nineteen levels, to get this aircraft production back, and it was very constrained over the last three years. You've now did demand at Boeing isn't the problem, it's deliveries. We had Ryan as Michael O'Leary sit in your seat actually at the end of last year, complaining about the delays to the seven thirty seven max getting delivered to Ryanair how Osawi to further delays and ultimately canceled orders because of what's tanking place. I'm sure he was more entertaining than me, and this seat, I will tell you that he's more entertaining than I Am, don't worry about it. You know, what we've seen is that we've seen a delivery slip. We delivered about one thousand aircraft in twenty two. That number was fifteen hundred post pandemic on the narrow body. So we've seen that happen already. But we're not going to see cancelations. We're seeing the order brook stretch out twenty eight twenty nine. Everybody wants to get in line, and even Ryanair, who's been the most outspoken against Boeing, has talked about wanting that aircraft sooner and pricing being better for them, Pricing being better for Boeing on some of the Ryan Air aircraft because they want the aircraft sooner. What's the opportunity here for Airbus? I mean, I mean just as simple and tou luise I got to play this low. It could be them. I get the whole dance. But is this a huge strategic opportunity in the United States of America for unit sales for Airbus? Not so much. I think the opportunity was from twenty nineteen to twenty three twenty two, when the Max was essentially grounded, not delivering to China as well, where we're forgetting about that China element. But Airbus had their market share opportunity. So what we see in twenty five as Boeing produces fifty max is a month and Airbus does seventy five maybe in the twenty twenty six time frame is more likely to be honest. So they already have that market share game. And let's not for Yes, Airbus has its own issues. The Airbus aircraft is mad has two engine options, either the ge leap option and the Raithyon GTF option. We know the GTF has a contaminated powder in it, so they're basically grounding forty percent of the GTF engines in the first half of this year to do inspections on them. So Airbus is not short of its issues as well. Okay, some of this is the complexity of the engineering across all of aviation. Are we at a point now and then, I mean, I get the COVID idea. I think that's brilliant, But are we at a point where these things are becoming too complex? Some areg you, it's not complex enough, not enough fuel efficiency, not enough energy efficiency, two pilots to by the plane. So I think that what we've seen in the aircraft industry is no new models really, this is the twenty twenties are just an upgrade of the existing models and efficiency. Are they still trying to do a one pilot plane. I think that's off the books for now. The focus has really been on the engine, the fuel efficiency, and what kind of engine we get in the twenty thirty five twenty forty time frame and how that aircraft takes us over the next two to three decades. The sitting of the jet back and forth on the wing was due to fuel efficiency, right, should we jettison? Fuel efficiency is an engineering mandate, that's what we're aiming for. But clearly the engine OEMs have had a lot of trouble, not only in production but the efficiency that they're getting. So not calling out GTF only with the raytheon issues. Not only do they have the contaminated powder, they've needed to do upgrades to get their engine up to par so is leaps. So that's what we're calling fence building. Let's finish on the regulator. This is a difficult one. How do you expect the regulator to respond to this? How do authority step in here? Given what could have taken place on Friday. So, John, you started off very stark contrast with Dave Calhoun yesterday, and I think the regulators took that same message. NTSP is solely focused on the accident. Well, no, in twelve to eighteen months, what really happened? The FAA said Grounding twelve hours in, so did Yassa. So I think that they're taking a stark stance. Boeing has this directive out on how to inspect the aircraft, and I think we could see the aircraft back in the air by the end of next week. The end of next week. That quickly. The directive said four to eight hours to inspect the aircraft. You think about just the pr element of it. An extra week when you hear from the regulator. Of course, they have to start out really broad, actually have all options open, t K consider everything, Shila. Do you get the sense that they've narrowed this investigation down already? Then, given your expectation, we'll be back up in the air next week. So the NTSP, I think, will take a year to come to a conclusion on exactly what happened and what the cause was. But the FAA seems pretty confident that the directive came out so quickly, thirty seconds normal conversation. What's your single best buy right now? Oh, this amazing company called Higo. When I started covering it's called Hiko. Hiko. Yes, twenty one billion market cap fifty one times PE. But when I first started covering this stock, and I won't tell you when that was, the market cap was two billion dollars. They are a generic aircraft parts manufacturer and they supply the aftermarket. The more we don't get new aircraft deliveries, the more Hiko benefits because the old planes get serviced. Interesting. I thought we could have rund out that conversation sort of long bowing, but we didn't. Shada, thank you, it's good to hear. Free me. Just fantastic, real depth to that conversation. Shada kyli that of Jeffreys. Let's catch out with say Mishap the chief club was strategistic principal asset man wish and seem pleased to say joined us right now. Seem a greater catch up two part story this year for you, first half, second half, first half, volatility, second half rally. I have to say it reminds me of some of the outlooks that I got last year for twenty twenty three, saying, what is it about twenty twenty four where you think that story could actually take place? So I think that Look, if you think about where we were at the end of last year, where you had I think a price per perfection, you know you couldn't get better news in the idea that the FED would start cutting it early in this year. You would have a soft landing, et cetera. Now, I'm not saying that that's not all going to come true, but at the beginning of this year, you're already seeing the market push back on some of those original expectations about early FED cuts. You're seeing ecod basilience that is creating a wobble, and I struggled to see what is going to be the catalyst to drive another leg up in the near term. Yourys need to see a bit of a pullback as the market starts to question their raid expectations. And then as you get towards the middle of the year and you get closer to that actual rate cut date, you see an economics slow down, but it doesn't turn out to be too damaging. That to me is that greed signal four and a more prolonged rally. Yes, seem a dovetail nominal GDP. Now that combination of real GDP plus the inflation with the IMS call of a beleaguered, slow global economy out four years to twenty twenty eight, where are we in that continuum as we go into twenty twenty four? Is there an animal spirit within our nominal GDP or is it going to drift away? So, look, we are anticipating a bit of a global growth slowdown. You know, if you look across the US, Europe, China, it's not particularly exciting, but you do have a couple of bright spots around the globe. But we're not anticipating a very prolonged economic weakness. So I think this is a fairly decent nominal growth environment. But along with that comes the idea that we don't necessarily see inflation coming all the way back down to two below two percent like you saw in previous years. So from a real rate, which I know you've been focused on, it is a slightly more challenging environment than we've seen in previous years, and I think investors need to start taking that into consideration as they're starting to position their portfolios. What does the real rate do this year the ten year inflation adjusted rate in the United States, So we're expected to come down slightly, but not too much. If I give you an idea, you know, we're expecting the FED to color three times twenty five basis points each time, so it's not very significant. We are expecting inflation to come down to around the two point four percent level, so it's not too far from where we are today. That is a little bit still quite restrictive, so you're not in a fantastic environment for risk assets, but there is a lot of cyclical factors that we can take into consideration. It's just if you're thinking about your portfolio, you're looking at a higher cost of capital than you've had in the last decade or so, so you need to be kind of screening your stocks a little bit closer. You need to be start thinking a little bit more about bonds as well. You know, in terms of it's great in inflationary, it's or in a disinflationary scenario. But in an inflationary scenario where inflation doesn't come all the way back down to what maybe was accustomed to before, bonds don't necessarily perform as well as you would have expected. I wonder what your call is then on consumer discretionary. I'll share with you what we heard from Lori Cavasina of RBC overnight, greating discretionary to market way and saying this, Seema, We're wary of being underweight going forward, given the tendency of this sector to outperform when interest rates are falling. They're two sectors at the moment that are kind of leading the pact to close out last year. And whenever we rally, it's discretionary, it's tech. Where are you on the format and for that matter, where are you on the latter. So actually on the consumer discretioning, I'm not too negative. I do think there are challenges coming for consumers, but I don't think there is significant as maybe a lot of people, including myself, were worried about at the end of last year. There's just a lot going for consumers at the moment. I mean, as long as the labor market is holding up as strong as it is, and I think consuming discretion can do well. On the tech side, I still have good, I guess solid expectations for tech. I do worry though about whether the expectations from the market is going to be fulfilled. So whereas I wouldn't want to go negative or underweight technology, I think there are other parts of the market which are a little bit more interesting for twenty twenty four. If, as you said, you're going to see FED cuts and soft learning, I think there are other parts of the market can do well. We'll talk to me about the other parts. Then what's the big call for you? Banks? Where do they fit in? Give me we get earnings on Friday. I think banks can do pretty well. I think you know, as you're going to see in a lot of parts of the market, there are headwinds in the first half of the year, but as you get through to the second then I think banks can do well. The other part of the market, which I think should be gaining interest, there's going to be a bit of a warble in the first quarter at least bit small caps, I think the evaluations are very attractive. Typically, when you get a fed cutting cycle and it's accompanied by a kind of a return to or at least solid growth, that is typically a very good signal for small caps. And when you're looking at that valuation gap between the large and the small cup, it is very attractive so I think this is the time that investors start thinking about it and maybe edging into those positions. If youels come down, is the is the flow of money out of money market funds it's assumed. Is it linear or does it all come in one great surge. I think that's it's really difficult to say in terms of how the investors sentiment is going to go. What I do think though, is one is that those m…

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Bloomberg Surveillance: Geopolitical Risks in 2024 Jan 09, 2024

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Emily Roland, John Hancock Investment Management Co-Chief Investment Strategist, says the Fed's 'pivot party' over rate cuts has led to a hangover in the equity market to start the year. Brooke Sutherland, Bloomberg Opinion columnist, walks through a hectic week for Boeing and the airlines sector. Ian Bremmer, Eurasia Group founder, outlines his top ten risks in geopolitics for 2024. Nadia Martin Wiggen, Svelland Capital Director, expects a seasonal slowdown in global oil production amid low crude prices.
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Introducing: The Bloomberg Daybreak Podcast Jan 09, 2024

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Bloomberg Daybreak delivers today's top stories, with context, in just 15 minutes. Subscribe to get the podcast by 6am Eastern every day.
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Bloomberg Surveillance: Airline Industry Confidence Jan 08, 2024

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Helane Becker, TD Cowen Sr. Research Analyst, remains confident in the airline industry despite the recent Boeing in-flight safety incident. Lori Calvasina, RBC Capital Markets Head of US Equity Strategy, says sentiments around the equity market got carried away at the end of 2023. Claudia Sahm, Sahm Consulting Founder & Bloomberg Opinion Writer, says December's jobs data points to a healthy labor market. Isaac Boltansky, BTIG Director of Policy Research, discusses Congress' agreement on a spending-cap deal as well as Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin's unannounced stay in the hospital. Barton Crockett, Rosenblatt Securities Managing Director, details the reasons behind his firm's neutral outlook on Apple this year. Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. Sign up now: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/surveillance Full Transcript:This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane, along with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day for insight from the best an economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app. Helene Becker joins now senior research analyst at TD Cowen, and we're thrilled that she could be with us today. Helene, January twenty second. I guess we get an earnings report from United, the others will lined up. What is their urgency to act, not so much off the Boeing accident, but their urgency to act because of the topsy turvy markets they're in now. I think that we have a situation where we're expecting, or we saw fourth quarter traffic was pretty good. The further we get away from twenty twenty, the more we'll see managed corporate travel come back. I think the trip where you have maybe a one day trip isn't coming back anytime soon. I feel like it's a lot like after nine to eleven tom when the really short haul trips went away, and we expect that to continue really now. But the longer haul trips. People need to get out, they need to see their clients. We've been talking about this for about a year now and we're seeing that. We're seeing that increase in managed travel, and we think that we'll continue into the rest of this year. With the Boeing accident, with the rivets, the fasteners, whatever, we're going to see in the coming weeks of that analysis, even months, I should say, of that analysis, what does it mean for the dynamic of refleeting A word I discovered last week. I think Helene Becker, you know, refleeting is going out and buying the bright, shiny new thing accelerated. Yeah, well yes, and no American did their refleeting in the last decade, so they're on the downside of that. United is doing it now and into twenty thirty two. Delta is in the middle of it. But Delta has a different and Southwest actually have different viewpoints on the way they refleet. They kind of spend about ten percent revenue on capex, somewhere between eight and ten percent every year, so they're continually refleeting, so we view that fairly favorably. I don't think anything changes. There's a lot of pressure on the industry to lower their carbon footprint. I know aviation only makes up two percent of total transportation carbon, but others are doing the whole reduction carbon faster, so aviation over time will become a bigger percentage of it. So there's a lot of pressure to fly young are more fully efficient aircraft oleane. I can't get past this comment from George ferguson words you never want to hear, when he basically came out and said it's not as safe as it was before the pandemic, talking about the safety of flying at a time when we did just have this incident with Alaska Airlines, also the incident that we saw in Japan, Questions around the competency and staffing levels at some of the agencies. Are you concerned? Do you feel like that is an accurate statement that it is not as safe to fly today as pre pandemic. No, no, no, I disagree with that completely. The fact that there were no casualties on the japan Air A three thirty is hugely significant. They were able to evacuate that entire aircraft without any incident, with half the doors being half the emergency doors being unusable because of fire. So I think that's one thing to consider. I think from an aviation perspective and a safety perspect that every time there's an incident, there's an investigation. There is no cover up. You never see that as you would in some as you may in some other industries. There have it. I mean, not to cha the industry, but there really haven't been any major accidents. The fact that Alaska air pilots were able to declare any emergency turnaround land safely with no injuries is hugely significant. And I think aviation is still the sepest form of transportation. No other industry does the deep dive into accidents that aviation does, and then aviation trains for every accident, and I think I think it's I think aviation is still very safe. I think that a lot of people will point to what happened in Japan and point out that that plane that everyone did manage to get out of I believe was an air bus and not a poet. But nevertheless, Yeah, So going forward, though, I'm curious what about some of the air traffic control issues and some of these other things. How important is it for airlines to do some sort of pr job, if nothing else, to assuage some of the concerns of neurotic people like myself. Where you're looking at this and thinking like, I don't know, well, I think you have to think aviation is safe number one. Number two, Yes, we do need to address the air traffic control situation, and the fact that we now have a permanent administrator is hugely important. That's another, you know, another thing that we view favorably. The FAA is certified to March eighth, so the government needs to really step up its efforts and get it certified permanently. My views are different than some of my peer group. I personally think the government should be responsible for safety and security, and I think your traffic control should be a separate corporation that's public that's paid for everybody. Right now, General Aviation, TOLUM and least in John don't pay for using air traffic control system. Helen, this is I wish we had another hour to cover this because I think each and every listener and viewer want to know about Back to the Reagan uproar and unions of years ago. How different is our transportation safety structure versus other major developing countries. Yeah, so euro Control runs Europe and that's a public company and Canada's public company and Canada it's just run differently. And I'm not saying it's better. I'm not saying it's worse. I'm just saying it's different, and you don't have the puts and starts that you have here. I've been talking about next gen since I started covering the industry four decades ago, and we're still talking about it. It's years behind schedule, it's over budget. Air traffic control, to your point, Tom, the Reagan administration fired all the air traffic controllers. They retrained them NAT because the union that represents them. They're they're well trained, but they're overworked, they're fatigued. We don't have enough of them to handle what we're doing right now, and so the aviation system will slow down. You won't be able to We'll see growth through replacing smaller aircraft with larger aircraft. We don't think we'll see the same level of pilot hiring in twenty four and twenty five that we saw in twenty one, two and three. That from that perspective. As we move further into the decade and people have more experience, that will be beneficial. But we're not going to grow as fast as we grow in prior decades because we just don't have the experience, and we can push the air traffic controllers to too much over time because it's a very taxing job to begin with, and we don't want any accidents to occur in the US because we want to continue to be able to say it's the safest form of transportation. Helen, I've got sixty seconds left on a clock top pic if ivor trade this year? What is it? Oh? Yeah, our favorite trade this year is Delta after United was our face for trade for the past two years. Why the change? The difference in capex, frankly is the biggest difference. I think United will continue to do well, but they're going to borrow a lot of money, sick. They have a sixty billion dollar capex program between now and twenty thirty two, and Deltas is not nearly as big, so you won't see the stress and the balance sheet that you may see at United. Interesting, Helene, thank you, thanks for the up date and lane backing there of td count, Thank you very much. Starting in the conversation this morning with Lori Cavassino, the head of US screty strategy at RBC Capital Markets, Loury, Good morning to you. This line jumped down from your most recent note, the week's start in January is just the beginning of a phase of turbulence. How concerned are you about that? Well, well, Johnny, I was talking to one of my traders last week and we were discussing the CFTC data. We're starting to see it's really just looking very very stretched, and I said, this looks scary, and I think we need to keep in mind that sentiment has been oscillating very very quickly over the last six months, so this isn't necessarily something that has to derail a call for the year. Maybe damp an enthusiasm just a little bit, but really what we've started to see the CFTC data on institutional investor positioning line up with what we're seeing on the retail survey for aaii, and both are looking very very stretched right now. I think there are a number of things that could come in and trip this market up a bit, but usually it's something the market doesn't see coming, So I think we need to focus here on the idea that sentiment itself just got carried away at the end of last year. Laurie Mike Wilson has been cautious on the markets. Over at Morgan Stanley has a brilliant paragraph parketing to nominal growth could be the surprise this year. It's one of his more optimistic constructions of where we're heading in the mystery of twenty twenty four, what do mid caps and small caps do? If we get legitimate animal spirit, we get legitimate nominal GDP. So what we've done typically seen is that when GDP and we tend to look at it in real terms as opposed to nominal terms. But if you're looking at real GDP above two point six percent, and two point six percent has been the long term average since the late seventies, we typically see that small caps and value stocks outperform in that environment. When GDP is running cool below trend, that's when large caps and growth tend to outperform. So it goes back to this question of leadership and rotation in the market. We've got GDP forecasts sitting at about one point three percent this year. That's up from about one percent back in November, so they're moving in the right direction. But if we really want to get a lasting, sustainable, durable leadership rotation away from the megacap growth stocks and into basically everything else in the market, you need to see GDP expectations move up quite a bit more from where they are right now. I mean, okay, well, the GDP's got to come up. I get that, But what do we do right now? I mean, you're deploying cash to small you know they've pulled back. You deploying cash this morning to small caps and mid caps. So I still like them, I don't like them quite as much as I did, you know, say four or five weeks ago when we last spoke. One of the things we've seen is that, in addition to sentiment getting a little frothy at the broader market, if you look at small cap positioning on the CFTC data, we're at important crossroads. We're basically at the three year highs, but we're not at all time highs. So we're going to know pretty soon whether or not small caps are really able to power through and take things up another leg of we's also still seeing that small caps look very cheap relative to large But if you look at a Russell two thousand and forward pe, it's back to average. Now that's not usually where things top out at, but it is telling us that maybe we have made a lot of the easy money in small caps already. So do I like them? Yes? Do I like them as much as I did a month ago? Not quite? This sounds all kind of negative, and yet you just upgraded your forecast for year end twenty twenty four to a fifty one fifty. That's a ten percent upside from here. If it's not small caps what leads. So I think that the value stocks in particular are something to keep an eye on. From here. We've seen the financials act quite well now I'm actually a little bit nervous about that heading into reporting season, but we've started to see some more favorable views emerge on the industrials as well. So I think we're going to get some interesting clues in this reporting season. But I do think sector composition is very, very tough right now. I do think, Lisa, if you kind of go back to our target, we were anticipating about a ten percent return, and we put that target out in early our mid November we were on sort of the earlier side of putting targets out. We trued up all of our you know, sort of models for year end. We did have this big, ferocious run in December, and now where we're sitting today, even with this upgrade on the fifty one to fifty, it's only about an eight percent return on the year, So it's not necessarily getting more bullish. It's just kind of truing up our model for the year ahead based on the moves that we had in December. You mentioned banks, and I find this interesting. How important is Friday going to be as JP Morgan kicks off earnings to give a sense of what the landscape is for banks? Or is it just JP Morgan's world and everybody else is living in it? So I think they all matter, Lisa. You know, I don't think it's just any one particular bank. I know some get more attention than others, especially the one that come at the beginning. But I tell you what I think is important for the banks is one, are those sort of strong numbers that we've seen in terms of performance going to hold up. Sometimes we do see, you know, sort of the banks give back when they've had a strong lead into reporting season, So are the numbers going to be good enough to really justify sustaining some of the better trends we've seen recently. I think that's one thing. But also I think for someone like me who's not a specialist in the financials, we really go in and look at the financials for clues on the plumbing of the economy, on the health of the consumer. And I think that's probably going to be the most important thing coming out of the next kind of week or so with those banks earnings, the real headline over the weekend coming into this morning a positive surprise in Washington, d C. Laurie this story congressional leaders announcing a deal on top line spending for the current fiscal year. Laurie, I was speaking to Wemy with Silverman in the last week and we talked about your line that talking about politics the election this year specifically is like staring at the sun. Is it that bad this year for you and the team? Yeah, it's pretty awful, John. I mean it's interesting that line comes from my conversations with US based investors who are like, Okay, it's time to write o…

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Bloomberg Surveillance: Labor Market Stays Solid Jan 05, 2024

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Randy Kroszner, University of Chicago Professor of Economics & former Fed Governor, along with Bill Dudley, former NY Fed President & Bloomberg Opinion columnist, Alan Ruskin, Deutsche Bank Chief International Strategist, and Tiffany Wilding, PIMCO Economist, break down December's stronger-than-expected US jobs report. Ellen Wald, Atlantic Council Senior Fellow, discusses the latest on oil with news that Maersk will avoid sending ships through the Red Sea for the 'foreseeable future' amid increasing violence from Houthi rebels.
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Bloomberg Surveillance: Jobless Claims Fall Jan 04, 2024

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Carl Riccadonna, BNP Paribas Chief US Economist, breaks down the year's first US weekly jobless claims report which fell below all estimates. Katy Kaminski, AlphaSimplex Chief Research Strategist, says we've entered the next phase for bonds as she shifts from long positioning to short. Ed Mills, Raymond James Washington Policy Analyst, previews a busy month ahead in Washington ahead of Congress' return. Steve Trent, Americas Airline Analyst, advises a selective approach with airline investments. Sarah Hewin, Standard Chartered Head of Europe & Americas Research, predicts the ECB will cut interest rates before the Fed.
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Bloomberg Surveillance: A 'Golden Buying Opportunity' Jan 03, 2024

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Torsten Slok, Apollo Global Management Chief Economist, says the Fed's easing of financial conditions could pose risks to the US economy. Cameron Dawson, NewEdge Wealth Chief Investment Officer, suggests that a potential repricing of rates would be a pain trade. Dan Ives, Wedbush Sr. Equity Research Analyst, says Apple's growth potential makes the stock a 'golden buying opportunity.' Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets Large Cap Bank Analyst, advises incorporating bank stocks into investor portfolios and believes we'll see further consolidation in the industry. Norman Roule, Center for Strategic & International Studies Senior Adviser, discusses the latest in the Middle East after a senior Hamas official was killed in Beirut. Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. Sign up now: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/surveillance Full Transcript: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane, along with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day for insight from the best and economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app. Right now, our conversation of the day. Synthesizing all this together. Torson Stock is chief economist at Apollo Global Management. Torson I'm going to pull in here a whole bunch of threads. The Bloomberg Financial Conditions Index is showing massive accommodation, and yet I look at the old liboard, the news, Sofa, sofr and I'm seeing huge restriction within the short term paper market tensions on Wall Street and the ill liquidity on Wall Street. How urgent is it for the FED to make some direction on a March cut or dare I even say a January first cut? Well, it has a number of different dimensions. First, there is a dimension on the real economy. It's clear that the FED pivot has eased financial conditions dramatically, and this begins to run the risk that we might see a repeat of what happened at the citycon Valley Bank. Remember Chris Waller just said a few weeks ago the easing of financial conditions in Q two that boost the GDP growth to five percent in Q three. Could we see the same now where the easing of financial conditions after the fat pivot might actually be boosting the housing market, the label market, services inflation, goods inflation. We are not out of the woods when it comes to battling inflation. So on the real economy, absolutely, the easing of financial conditions is very supportive. There are some issues when it comes to the plumbing when the tightness as you're highlighting in very short term markets, and the FED for sure has to play this difficult talk of wall between do we want to ease financial condition on the rial side or how much can we ease financial conditions in the very front end of the curve. But this is the challenge for the FED. At the moment that you're highlighting, Torsten, you didn't listen. They didn't respond to the idea of financial conditions. They didn't seem to think it mattered at all at the last press conference. Why should it matter now? I mean we're going to actually hear them come back and say, actually, just kidding about that financial conditions question. Well, they were debating in October and September, well maybe financial conditions have done a lot of the work for us, and now they're saying, well, maybe financial conditions it doesn't really matter because it can fluctuate so much. So I still think that it's a little bit inconsistent what they're saying when that data dependency, it only talks about the real data, whereas the financial conditions impulse. If you take the easy and financial conditions that we've had since the fit pivot and stuff it into furpose the fed's model of the US economy, you will get a boom of up to one and a half percent growth over the next slevel quarters in GDP. It's going to be very supportive as a tailwind to the economic outlook. Although we did have Ganadi on earlier of TD securities, and he said even with this idea that inflation could remain stickier, that we could get this ongoing growth, the FED could still cut rates and still be restrictive. Given the positive real rate. Do you ascribe to that kind of thing or do you think that just means many fewer rate cuts going forward for the Fed. I think that's absolutely right that we have. Of course, for the better part of the last year, we have talked about higher for longer. Now the conversation is more restrictive for longer, because they can still be restrictive if inflation is coming down, because real interest rates is what matters. So if real interest rates are still positive as inflation comes down, the fact and according you also gradually begin to lower rates. But note also that if you look at the outlook for sofa futures, as also Tom was mentioning, you still have that the bottom will still be around three and a half four percent. So one very important conclusion for as an allocation is that we are not going back to zero. We have still higher for longer, in the sense that the level of interest rates, the level of the free rate on page one in your finance textbook, will be significantly higher for the next several years than where it was from the period from twosand and eight to twenty twenty two. Let's try and get to the half of what we're discussing. Care the interest rates sensitivity of the US economy exactly. And now what we've seen over the last two years is rates go up aggressively and not slow down the economy. And what you're suggesting is that as rates start to come in and financial conditions ease, that the economy picks up again. Can you help explain that to people why higher rates haven't slowed the economy down but easy find financial conditions will boost it. Ye. But what's very important in that debate, and that's also taking place on Twitter and X of course here at the moment, is that my lift very critically sophisticate. Important to remember that that is significantly a function of whether you talk about the interest rate sensitive components of GDP or the non interest rate sensitive components of GDP. If you split GDP into the cyclical components and the non signal components, the main component that is sensitive to interest rates is housing. And housing did respond dramatically to higher rates. So this whole idea that the economy didn't respond to higher rates, that's just completely wrong. Of course, the economy responded to rates. It was the interest rate sensitive parts that responded to rates going up. Housing started slowing down. But the non interest rate sensitive components, in this case travel, restaurants, hotels. After COVID had such a long tailwind that that more than dominate the slow down in the housing market. So splitting that debate away from the academic textbook, which we all love, is so important because it becomes so critical to think about did the parts of the economy that are sensitive to interest rates did they actually respond? And absolutely, in particular housing Kapix also of COMMERCIALI state things that are sensus of two interest rates they did absolutely respond to when interest rates window. This is a fantastic explanation. So let's build on it. Let's project this out. What are the forecasts now for you for GDP in the next couple of quarters. We heard from the likes of Max Kanner of HSBC who said, the biggest risk right now is that we have to reprice rates again higher because exactly of what you're talking about, what are you looking for in the data? Well, if I type ECFCG on my Bloomberg screen, I will see that over the next six months we are very close to zero, zero point four and zero point five on GDP for Q one and Q two. So the consensus answer to your question is GP growth is continuously slowing as a result of the fat's campaign of hiking rates. The new risk that has emerged is that because of the fit pivot, that means that the interest rates sensitive components that we're dragging down GDP for the better part of last year, they might now begin to rebound. Housing most importantly, case SHILLA is now up five percent. Case SHILLA is a very important leading indicator for the OEI, meaning the shelter components of the CPI, and shelter makes up forty percent of the index, So that means that if something that makes up forty percent of the index is about to rebound, we could come back to that discussion about maybe the rates markets we'll have to reprise to higher for long gun and more restrictive for longer. I just looked at the two year inflation adjusted yield. I haven't looked at it since time began Nixon was president, and I can use the word never over twenty years, the integran, or the duration of a high two year real rate, we've never seen. We had a spike in eight with a great financial crisis, but these sustained high two year real yields are absolutely unprecedented for global Wall Street. How unstable are we right now? I would say, at least from a fet perspective. If you just take the economic textbook out and think about what matters, it is absolutely as you're highlighting real rates, So real rates being at these levels would tell you that we're still in very restrictive territory. So the challenge here for the FIT is that they still want to have the soft landing, and we all want to have the soft landing. That will be the best outcome, of course, from so many dimensions. But what is beginning to matter is that they have now sucked so much liquidity out. We've gotten to a point where we are beginning to see some strains in the plumbing that you're highlighting. And that's why real rates it has a very significant different impact on the long end and what it means for the real economy relative to what high real rates means for the front end and what it means for financial markets as host. And this has been an absolute Cameron Dawson joins US now chief investment Officer at New Edge Wealth Camic and morning and happy New year, Good morning, Happy nowear are you sitting on the fence because I'm written this first line in your work. It says we could have a scenario where both bulls and hairs are right this year, which one is it? Well, I think that we have to be nimble because I believe that there is going to be a scenario where you could very easily see people get drawn even further into this market. We think positioning is overweight, but not quite as is extreme as it was in times like twenty twenty one or twenty eighteen. So you could see some pain get pulled in. But the other reality is that you could see a rationalization of the fact that sentiment is very extended and that valuations are extended. So it's how you react to market rallies or market corrections, I think is how you will win. In twenty twenty four we mentioned that HSBC. So let's talk about the work coming from Max Kentna this morning. Here's this line, biggest risk another repricing and rights. Do you agree with that one hundred percent? That's the pain trade. The pain trade is that everybody thinks that inflation is fully vanquished and then gets surprised if things like oil prices move higher. Wages end up being stickier than expected rates move higher, and then all of those stocks that rerated in the last two months up thirty forty percent because now they're not worried about their balance sheets anymore. Balance sheet risk becomes an issue again, and you get a reversion of a lot of the names that were lower quality that happened to lead at the end of last year. The modeled out earnings are nine percent ten percent. Dare I say double digit eleven percent earnings growth for this year? Is that in the price now or is that going to develop out in the first half of next year. It is in the price now, and I think that we always have to think about the path of twenty four will be pricing in what actually happens in twenty twenty five. So if a recession looks more likely in twenty twenty five, that's when you'll start to see those earning estements get cut into the out years. The thing that's the biggest challenge for us for earning estments in twenty four is the expectation that top line growth will re accelerate in a year where nominal growth because of inflation is expected to decelerate. Can you see that happen at the same time where we get less inflation, less pricing power, and yet we get a big acceleration in top So away for the romance of Apple and Microsoft. If you look at Staples and discretionary and all, you've got to model out there, what you go back from a six percent wonderment of growth back to four percent revenue growth? Yeah, very likely. And there are idiots and pockets where you're going to see improvement. You know, healthcare had its earnings down almost twenty percent last year, that will flip positive this year just because of easy comps. So that's where we're trying to look outside of just the macro drivers, Staples being a great example of one that can't get away from this inflationary dynamic, and look instead to the more idiotsyncratic opportunities our banks to douse syncratic opportunities. And I ask with JP Morgan at new record high, Yeah, I mean you've seen such a huge rerating. Of course, there's pockets of banks where there is still inexpensive areas. You know, banks do have the tailwind of a less inverted curve, hopefully a reopening of capital markets. But then we have to consider things like BTFP, does it get re extended Basil three in game, all of these things that could be big drivers of bank earnings or at least appetite for bank risk as we go through twenty twenty four. It sounds like you're not buying the rotation story. I am buying the rotation story. Yeah. I think that we have to have an open mind that even great companies with great balance sheets, with monopolies could still underperform simply because positioning is so crowded and because valuations are so elevated. That's the smartest insight I've heard in the last forty eight hours. Are we going to have rotation or not? That's a really, really undersaid cool question. I think that that was really some of the anks behind the sell off that we've seen that was living, that was really led by big tech. We were talking about this yesterday with Apple, and I guess that you know, how much does that have legs versus what we saw last year, which was a headfake and everyone came in saying, all right, this is the year to sell tech, and by the end of the year of them was saying in Nvidia Magnificent seven, it's going to change the world. Kumba Yah it's going to save the United States, I mean, et cetera, et cetera. And what a different setup because at the very end of twenty twenty two you had record outflows from tech ETFs. You look at the course of twenty twenty three, you had forty billion dollars of inflows into technology compared to twenty billion dollars of outflows out of things like energy and financials and healthcare. So really this could just be about positioning and pain trades and the fact that you already re rated tech because now it's already just one turn away from its twenty twenty one peak valuation, so you're hitting a ceiling. Let's put a couple of stories together. You said, maybe the biggest paying trait the risk here is high, right, so reprice give rights again at Lisa brought up banks. How woud the banks respond to that given what we saw last year? Yeah, I mean it would raise balance sheet risk again. It probably puts into sharp focus again issues with commercial real estate because we've all kind o…

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Bloomberg Surveillance: 10 Surprises of 2024 Jan 02, 2024

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John Stoltzfus, Oppenheimer Chief Investment Strategist, says the consumer and the jobs market will play an important role in 2024. Elliot Ackerman, US Marine Corps Veteran & Former White House Fellow, overviews the latest in the Middle East and Indo-Pacific as global geopolitical tensions continue to rise. Sarah Hunt, Alpine Saxon Woods Chief Market Strategist, says six rate cuts could indicate a weaker economic scenario. Thierry Wizman, Macquarie Global Interest Rates and Currencies Strategist, advises holding a long position on oil. Doug Kass, Seabreeze Partners President, details the catalysts that could drag down stocks in his '10 surprises of 2024.' Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. Sign up now: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/surveillance Full Transcript: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane, along with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day for insight from the best and economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App. John Stolfus joints chief investment Strategist at op co Op and I'm our asset management and we speak to him about the bullmarket he nailed last year and continues to nail this year. John, I'm going to take it back to the analog of the middle seventies, a horrific recession, the leap in nineteen seventy five, and then a follow on in nineteen seventy seven. It's twenty twenty four, a follow on bullmarket. I think in many ways it is, Tom. I think the question here really is, or rather the difference is, it's a substantially different background in terms of a digitalized global society for business as a consumer and what was back then, which was essentially an analog world. And I think things get digested much quicker. I think that the data is a better quality. And because we've been in crisis in an out of crisis since two thousand and eight, all the players as well as you know, the traders as well as the investors are more experienced with dealing with volatility. John, I think what's so important here is only Stolphus is talking about last year was a prelude. I just think that's so important. Fifty two hundred price target year rent this year, John, let's build on that. You and I have talked about this a few times in the last few months, and I've appreciate it. Can we just address it right now? How dependent that call is on interest rate cuts from the feder Reserve? Not much really. You know, we're not of the camp it's looking for six cuts this year in twenty twenty four. We're looking for perhaps one or two. And we're not looking for the first half for cuts. We think it'll happen in the second half of the year, and lightly later rather than earlier. In the second half. To us, the Fed has been remarkably sensitive in practicing its mandate. You know, where as able to comy and full employment is described by unemployment between three and four percent, and we think it wants to keep it that way, and so that's what we're looking at A little bit different. We like the Fed. Ironically, very few people do we think the Fed has done. It shows the Ben Bernank legacy carried on through Jerome Powell in the sense of communication and clarity. So it might not necessarily the rally my not be dependent on j. Powell. But how much is it dependent on the Central Bank of Tim Cook? I would have to say, perhaps I'll keep it away from a company specific here, but I would say certainly a business, the consumer and the jobs market will play an important role this year. Keyword to watch for is resilience when we look at economic data, what we're looking at is for things to show resilience, and naturally is a challenging environment when you're making transitions and you have the levels of trouble around the world. The geopolitical risks seems to keep ramping up by the day. But consider where business plays out in this where the opportunities are both this cyclical point where we are on the calendar, as well as the secular trends that are driving potential growth for all eleven sectors. Okay, So in other words, his text still lead me. I guess if that's the question at a time, or that accounted for fifteen percent of the twenty four percent game of the SMP last year at least, I think tech certainly remains a major participant in this, But I think what we need to watch well, of course communications services, which is about fifty percent tech related, you also have when you look at the other sectors, just think about industrials and all the technology in that. And it's a good customer of technology, whether it's it's sensors of robotics or what have you, and the cloud, big data and all that aon. So when we look at this, it's you know, whether it's it's a utility company, whether it's a materials company, whether it's a pharmaceutical or a biotech. Technology is where it's at. So we can but think. The other reason is last year Tech was was fabulous it's performance because it had been so brutalized in twenty twenty two when the Bears sold all of Tech, the long duration they sold because they were worried about red dancings, but they sold the good stuff that was highly profitable positive cash low, create products, and deeply embedded in the lives of business and the consumer. John the cliche is the boat has left the duck. I would guess a very large percent of the surveillance audience feels like they missed twenty twenty three. How do you get back in the game if the boat's left the duck. Yeah, Tom, I would say for the people who missed this, I would say it's a question of layering in. That's not back up the truck. At these levels, consider opportunities that show up when you get some weakness in names that may have gotten away from you. Look for babies that get grown out with the bathwater in downdrafts to add to positions that you're building, and in essence, what you want to avoid is just blindly buying deps. You want to be selective, even within what appears to be a nicely broadening rally. After as Lisa pointed out earlier, I mean we're still back to the future in terms of the prices of stocks. In many cases outside of the magnificent seventy eight there you know they've got it would look like they've got plenty of headroom available to move higher in so many ways. We had a decade in a year. As Lisha and I discussed a little bit earlier on the program, John want to put to catch up with you, sir, Happy new year. John stelfiestet of Oppenheim arrasted management. Right now, we need perspective, and we get it from someone gifted. He's served the nation in the Marine Corps, also a White House fellow, and critically he is a king of speculative fiction with James Travitis, Elliott Ackerman's must read two thou thirty four, boy is out of mustard right now, given the Philippines, given the South China Sea, and we eagerly anticipate two thousand and fifty four that you'll see in March. Elliott Eckerman joins us this morning. Elliott, if this is not speculative fiction, it is reality in the Red Sea. What is lost in the press coverage? I think the one thing that is often lost is we have a tendency to focus kind of specifically on military events while losing perspective that all military events happen in a political overlay. You know, ultimately these are political questions. What's going on in Taiwan? What's going on in Ukraine, what's going on in Israel. And the longer these wars play out, the more and more central the politics of the war it self become. And what the outcome is going to be the heart of your fiction with the Admiral st Vetus is things happen suddenly and then in sequence, do we have the ships in place against these terrorists whatever you want to call them. Do we have the process in place where unexpected bad things can happen in sequence? I think when it comes to the Middle East and the challenges that we're seeing there, yes we do. And that is a situation where we the United States vis the Iranians. We are not facing a peer level adversary necessarily in Iran. And I agree with Terry's comments that the underappreciated conflict here is Taiwan. And when it comes to Taiwan, you know, the United States does not have the forces in place, at least peer level forces in place that could meet Chinese aggression across the Taiwan Straits, and that's one of the huge challenges that we face it. But the Chinese would be fighting that conflict in their backyard and we would be fighting it from across the Pacific Ocean. I want you to elaborate a little bit on the point that you just made that all of these international conflicts have real domestic political implications. What are some of the ramifications that we've seen over the past year, how the conflicts have developed, and how public opinion has shaped the inaction that we're currently seeing in Congress to continue providing aid. I think when we go around the go around the world, if we look at Ukraine right now, I would argue that that's probably a war that's not going to be decided on the battlefield as those conditions stagnate. Is a war that's going to be decided at the ballot box. And I think in Ukraine, in Israel, as we see this war is now extending in two months, I think domestic political considerizations in Israel are going to determine the outcome of their war with Hamas. And I think when we look at the United States, you know, the elephant in the room is we have an election. It's going to occur this fall, and how that election unfolds will be determinatives of those conflicts. And lastly, when we look at Taiwan, I mean, in two weeks the Taiwanese people are having a presidential election, and the outcome of that election will certainly affect China's perceptions on what they should do in Taiwan. How different is the foreign policy of Donald Trump versus President Biden. I think the foreign policy of Donald Trump is much more unpredictable, and I think the foreign policy of Joe Biden, as we've seen it, as much more. It has it much more incremental. So I don't think anyone can necessarily say what Donald Trump's policies would be on any three of these conflicts Taiwan, Ukraine, or Israel, Whereas I think we've seen sort of a more consistent approach that Joe Biden has applied. I mean, I look, Elliott where we are, and it's about public service. There's a lot of people watching this across this nation that have loved ones. That's the loved ones on long tours of duty. I know that the Ford is coming back from the Mediterranean. Are we fit now in our defense budget for multiple wars you mentioned Taiwan. Let's say our war Ukraine, our war Iran, maybe our war China. Do we have a budget near capable of meeting those three threats? I think we're I think we have to take a very very hard look not only at the budget and the financial resources that we're applying, but you know, also the intellectual resources. And that's actually where I have the most concerns. You know, is a what a war against China look like a repeat of the Second World War, in which the coin of the realm and naval battle or aircraft carriers eighty years after the aircraft carrier became the corner of the realm. And I don't know that that is necessarily the case. You know, we've seen in places like Ukraine that the Ukrainians have been very effective in sinking Russian ships of the line with shore based missiles. And so I know, I'm a marine veter in my own service right now is in the midst of doing some real strategic a real strategic reset about what it would look like to fight a revisited island hopping campaign in the South China Sea, and they're restructuring the entire Marine Corps to do that. So I think there's a budgetary question, but there's also an intellectual question of you know, what will the wars of the future look like, and that work needs to be done now, and it's going to force some American military institutions to transform in ways that are going to be very uncomfortable with the war of the future. Elliott, what's a more effective strategy one that's predictable or one that's unpredictable. Well, I think in terms of your battle plans, you always want to be unpredictable. The word I would use is one that is adaptive. Because it's very difficult to predict what the war the future is going to be. It's most essential not to get the prediction right, but to get the prosture right so that your forces can adapt to whatever the next conflict looks like. And to use an analogy from the Second World War, at the outset of the Second World War, in terms of naval warfare, again, the coin of the realm was the battleship, and it had been the corner of the realm and was the central platform for centuries. But as we all know, you know, Pearl Harvard, the entire US battleship fleet was sunk, and we had this new platform, which is the aircraft carrier, and that platform was able to adapt and become the central force around which naval battles were fought, and I think whatever the next war is, we're going to see a similar process of adaptation need to occur. It's going to have to occur very fast, and the side that gets their right will probably be the side that wins oty. Just to finish that, what do you suspect it is. I think it's going to probably be a network of platforms. I think it's going to be unmanned, unmanned ships, unmanned aerial vehicles, our ability to fight both a high tech war and also a hybrid low tech war where many of those high tech systems are taken offline and our forces ability to kind of toggle between the two. So it's gonna be very, very complex, but more of the network centric version of warfare as opposed to a platform center version of warfare built around you know, very big ships and aircraft and things of that. Interesting. Interesting Elliott, thank you, I appreciate your time this morning. Always do Happy New Year, Sir Akman, US Marine Corps veteran whether surround the table. Sarah Hunt, chief market strategist at Alpine Saxon Words, Sarah, good morning and happy New Year. Let's revisit that quote from Berkley's This Morning. We believe the continued period of week results coupled with multiple expands is not sustainable. You on the same page. I think you almost have to be. I mean, you know, the theme for twenty twenty three was all about the FED and what was going to happen, and as soon as the cycle peak, you could be okay. So if we pulled forward a lot of multiple expansion on the back of the idea that rates are going to come down, they're probably not going to come down to that great Financial crisis level. If they come down a couple hundred basis points. Is the multiple expansion already too much? And I think that that's going to be the big tension in a lot of them. And you know, for Apple, which we were talking about, you've got to look at all that consistency and all that cash onlo and that's what people are paying for that and the exclusivity of its Apple, and people will keep replacing those products. It's that assessment true. If the whole market of just a select group of stocks that dominate the market, I think it's more select group. I mean, you have to I think valuations and we keep saying and it's one of like, this is Europe's year, this is valuation's year. It's going to matter this year, right, I don't know when it's going to matter, but at some point it will. I think having money…

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