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    Health & Fitness

    Beyond the Prescription

    Join Dr. Lucy McBride for honest conversations about what it really takes to be healthy. Each episode goes beyond quick fixes and conflicting health advice to explore the questions that matter: How do we navigate a healthcare system that’s often too rushed to see us as whole people? Who can we trust when everyone seems to be selling something? And how do we reclaim agency over our own health?

    Drawing from 25 years of clinical experience, Dr. McBride brings evidence-based clarity to complex health topics—from mental health and preventive care to the future of medicine itself. Whether interviewing leading healthcare innovators, answering listener questions, or sharing insights from her own practice, her mission is the same: helping you reclaim agency over your health.

    For listeners who want more than a prescription—who want to understand their bodies, advocate for themselves, and cut through the noise of modern wellness culture—this is your guide to getting the care you actually need.

    To sign up for her weekly newsletter, visit www.lucymcbride.substack.com/welcome

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    Copyright: © 2022 Beyond the Prescription and kglobal

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    Caitlin Murray on the Healing Power of Humor May 08, 2023
    Show notes

    You can also check out this episode on Spotify! When Caitlin Murray’s 5-year-old son Callum was diagnosed with leukemia in 2016, her world turned upside down. She started blogging to keep friends and family informed about his treatment, and what began as a medical missive became an outlet for share about life, love, and parenting.Callum beat cancer, and Caitlin’s star kept rising. As the main character of the wildly popular Big Time Adulting Instagram page and podcast, Caitlin has captured the hearts of parents everywhere with her raw, relatable, and hilarious commentary about raising kids. On this episode, Caitlin sits down with Dr. McBride to discuss social media for grown-ups; learning to trust your gut; and the heartbreaking hilariousness of being a parent.So listen, learn, and laugh with Caitlin. She is living proof that humor is healthy. Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription.You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on her Substack at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/podcast. You can sign up for her free weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.substack.com/welcome.Please be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!Transcript of the podcast is here![00:00:00] Dr. McBride: Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription," the show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight, that we are the integrated sum of complex parts. Our stories live in our bodies. [00:00:35] I'm here to help people tell their story, to find out, are they okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at https://www.lucymcbride.com/ and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, let's get into it and go beyond the prescription. [00:01:03] There are influencer moms on social media with their perfectly curated family life on display, and then there's my guest today, Caitlin Murray. Caitlin created the wildly popular Big Time Adulting Instagram handle and now has a podcast of the same name. It all started as a way of keeping her friends and family abreast of her son's progress as he was treated for childhood leukemia. And it has grown exponentially over time as an outlet for Caitlin to share her thoughts on, as she puts it, life, love, and parenting. [00:01:37] Caitlin is arguably the funniest and most relatable mom on the internet. Her content is the refreshing antithesis to the Pinterest-perfect family imagery. Her humor makes her audience of stressed-out parents feel seen and heard. It's her authenticity that has made her wildly successful and someone I really admire. Caitlin, thank you so much for joining me today. [00:01:59] Caitlin: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super flattered to be here with you because we originally met via the Gram and I reached out to you to be on my podcast. And I found you because I was doing a lot of homework on COVID stuff in terms of the risk analysis of masking children in school, which was really something that I was feeling impassioned by at that time. And I was just so pumped to come across such an accredited doctor who spoke really well from both sides about the reality of the situation. And when you said yes that you would come on my podcast, I was like, "Ooh, I gotta tighten my s**t up right now." [00:02:45] Dr. McBride: Oh, my God. That's hilarious because when you asked me, I'm like, "Oh, I gotta tighten my s**t up right now."[00:02:50] Caitlin: So, yeah, but I'm psyched to have developed this online relationship with you and see you a little bit in real life via Zoom. [00:02:59] Dr. McBride: Well, I feel like I know you. And that's, I think, your gift to your audience, is that you let us into your world, you let us into your interiority. And I think what connects to you and me is the fact that neither of us are willing to put up with a lot of BS, whether or not it's because you are a mom of someone who's had cancer, whether you are just born with perspective and wisdom, or whether or not you're just learning as you go like we all are. [00:03:28] The appeal in my mind of your content is this relatability, authenticity, and humor that allows people who are watching you to feel like we're okay. And that's the title of my newsletter is, "Are You Okay?" I mean, no one's really okay. Which is not to say we're all mentally ill, we're all broken people. [00:03:46] It's to say that it's on a continuum how we manage our everyday lives, how we manage stress, how we manage mood, how we manage relationships with food, alcohol, our spouses, our children. My goal as a doctor is to help people be a little more okay tomorrow than they are today. And so, when you see someone like you on Instagram who's real and authentic, it's very appealing and refreshing. [00:04:09] Caitlin: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that that's how you view it because I'm actually a shallow b***h behind the scenes. [00:04:17] Dr. McBride: Well, I know that. And I'm trying to just cover it up for my audience, but there you go. Like, that's what you are, you're funny and you're real. And I'm gonna guess that you have insecurities like we all do, and you wonder sometimes like, "Wait, maybe I am a shallow b***h." I mean, Instagram is a weird place, right? [00:04:36] Caitlin: Totally. Yeah. I think it's a place where people second guess themselves constantly just by scrolling along. And it's this over-inundation of information and ideas and stuff that kind of like what you were saying, am I okay, or are we okay? And, like, no, nobody's okay. But that's also okay. Like, that's fine. So, don't overthink it. Just be yourself, right? Because you only get one shot at this whole thing to just be yourself. And what a gift. [00:05:06] So, starting my page, becoming really vulnerable in a public way is difficult. It was hard to do that at first. And now I am so much more comfortable with it because my audience size has grown and that's validating in itself. So, I feel compelled to continue oversharing all the time. But it's one of those things where when you let your guard down and you make yourself vulnerable, which I try to do, people really can sense that, the realness of what's happening in life and that you're not preoccupied by the b******t. Like, let's just get to the point. [00:05:45] Dr. McBride: Yeah. And I think social media has allowed people like you to do that because maybe you have an intrinsic confidence or just sense of self that's stronger than others perhaps. But I think there's a lot of fear about revealing our true selves, certainly publicly and even to our own friends and family sometimes or to ourselves. [00:06:06] There's a hesitancy to really look inside and acknowledge uncomfortable truths, realities about our lives, about who we are, and then Instagram highlights how perfect people are able to present themselves and then it can deepen any preexisting insecurities. So, I think what I'm hearing you say is that the vulnerability you are presenting outward to your audience is also reinforcing to you of the magic of vulnerability for your own self. [00:06:40] I'm guessing that you're a little bit like me in this way. The glue of my friendships with women in my life is shared vulnerability, and honesty, and truth. It's not a hey, one-upmanship, it's not a competition. It's, like, it's being real. Because first of all, who wants to be around other women who are like, "Oh, I'm so great, and look at my kid, they won this award." I mean, at the same time, my friends are people who can celebrate my wins with me too, and cry with me at the same time. [00:07:11] Caitlin: But all that stuff is also like, it's frankly super boring when you just talk about what's, like, great, right? Like, I'm like, "Can you tell me what's wrong? Tell me all about your s**t and I'll tell you about mine, right?" So that's what you were saying. Basically, it has been a super validating experience for me and I think that what I hope the followers who are on my page gain is also their own personal sense of validation through seeing somebody let their guard down on social media because it is a difficult place to do that. [00:07:41] Dr. McBride: Yeah. And giving people permission to explore their own vulnerabilities and be funny, and be silly, and go get a snack. For anybody who's listening who hasn't seen Caitlin's Instagram handle, she cuts through the BS and then often ends her little monologues that are riveting and relevant with, "So, go get a snack," and you tap the camera. And it's just so refreshing. And then I wanna go get a snack and I do. [00:08:07] Let me ask you a big question. What is your definition of health? [00:08:11] Caitlin: Yeah, that's a huge question. I feel like it comes from so many areas, but I guess it starts with, self-awareness, so figuring out what is going on in your body, listening to your body and your mind. Because I'm someone who has health anxiety. And I don't know if that's a PTSD thing from what we went through with my son, but I think I've always had a fairly strong element of that within me. [00:08:39] I think it's just...it had become much more exaggerated for a period of time, and I'm figuring all of that stuff out now too as I go and learning to take the whole picture instead of focusing on something catastrophic or whatever within my body. So, sometimes I feel like I'm too self-aware, I'm paying too much attention to what's going on in my body with that kind of thing. But, you know, just full picture. [00:09:04] And this is also something I learned along the way with my son, with the doctors that he would see at Memorial Sloan Kettering, which is a world-renowned cancer center and they have fantastic doctors there. And I really praised the way that they were not alarmists and they kept you sort of grounded with things in terms of...maybe a symptom would arise or something like that but look at the big picture. [00:09:29] Is this worsening? Are there other things going on? Is this something that I need to really fix or should I relax about this and see if it resolves on its own type thing? So, I'm big into movement. I've got to move my body for not just my body but my mind. Like, I've gotta get...shake my crazies out. And then, balance, balance with food, balance with alcohol, balance with getting enough sleep and doing things you like. [00:09:58] Dr. McBride: It's a great definition. And I 100% agree with you. It has to start with self-awareness. And sometimes awareness brings discomfort when we realize, "Oh, my god. I'm anxious about every symptom." But if you can recognize, as you have, that some of that stems from a real medical vulnerability with a precious person in your life, then perhaps that allows you to forgive yourself for being anxious and also just try to better frame medical issues as they come up. Can you talk for a second about your son and his diagnosis? [00:10:34] Caitlin: Yeah. He had just turned three years old, this was December of 2016, and I started to notice he wasn't doing well. He had come down with some kind of a virus, like a cold or a flu. It's that time of year. So, I wasn't particularly worried right away. But then he was not bouncing back the way a child should after say a week of illness. And I noticed he was getting more tired. [00:10:58] He would want to take a nap. He had dropped his nap. His color looked bad to me, his appetite was bad. So, there were all these… a conglomerate of things going on with him. But little kids are not super self-aware of their bodies necessarily. So, they can kind of distract themselves pretty easily. And you might think for a minute, "Oh, maybe he is okay, you know, maybe everything's fine. He's playing right now or he’s coloring." But deep down it was, like, eating away at me. I knew something was going on. [00:11:30] So, I had taken him to the doctor after, you know, like, the first illness of a couple of fevers and stuff just to make sure everything was okay. And then we went home and then he seemed to have some other illness or the same, just not recovering from. And then he started getting some fevers that weren't going away. And, of course, I visited Dr. Google. [00:11:48] Dr. McBride: That's not the wrong thing to do. It just can make people more anxious if they're already anxious. [00:11:53] Caitlin: Totally. But, like, this time Dr. Google was right. You know your child. Like, you know your child better than anyone. So, I took him back and I actually said to the doctor that day that saw him, "This might sound crazy to you, but he's been sick for kind of a while now and I don't see him improving. And he's had this fever going on. I wasn't a big temperature taker, I wasn't really alarmist like that with my kids when they were getting sick. I knew he had a fever because I could feel him being warm. I didn't know what his temperature was every day or something like that. This is maybe day five or six of him being like this. This is crazy, but could he, like, potentially have cancer? He was up all night coughing, all of this stuff.” And I was very quickly sort of, like, brushed off with that. [00:12:34] I said, "I'd like to see blood work.”... I'll do an exam and if I see any red flags, and then I'll order blood work. So, whatever. The visit goes on and the doctor is like, "You know, I don't see anything totally out of the norm here. He's probably just got, like, a cold on top of a cold or something like that." [00:12:56] Honestly, 99% of [00:13:00] the time this doctor would've been right, I don't blame her for that. But I knew that he wasn't all right. So, that's just one of those things where you learn to trust your instinct a little bit. And even if you're wrong, who gives a s**t? Just get the blood work done or do what is gonna put your mind at ease because you do know, you know, be the advocate. [00:13:18] Dr. McBride: I wanna get back to that point after you finish that story because it's such an important moment of the interface between medicine and humans. But go on. [00:13:28] Caitlin: Yeah. So, then it was Christmas that weekend. This was a Friday, that day that I took him to the doctor. And Monday was, like, sort of Christmas observed, so skeleton-staffed everywhere, that kind of thing. And, like, the last thing you wanna do is go to the doctor on the day after Christmas where it's just, like, exhausted with little kids celebrating the holidays. But I couldn't even get him to, like, take a bite of cake at breakfast that morning. [00:13:52] I was like, "Do you want some cake?" Because he wasn't eating anything. So, I was kind of desperate for him to eat. And he wouldn't...he didn't want anything. And I picked him up right there and then. I was at my mother-in-law's house, I was like, "We gotta go. Like, I'm going to the doctor right now." And so, we got there and I said, "I just...I don't care. Like, don't bother with testing or whatever, just order the blood work…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Dr. Samantha Boardman on Turning Stress into Strength May 01, 2023
    Show notes

    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!In honor of Mental Health Awareness month, we welcome Dr. Samatha Boardman. Dr. Boardman is a New York based positive psychiatrist who is committed to fixing what’s wrong and building what’s strong. She writes the popular newsletter called The Dose and is the author of Everyday Vitality, a book about leaning into our strengths to bring about positive change. Historically, psychiatry has focused on the diagnosis of disease and the treatment of individuals with mental illness. Positive Psychiatry takes a more expansive approach, focusing on the promotion of wellbeing and the creation of health.Dr. Boardman is passionate about cultivating vitality, boosting resilience, and transforming full days into more fulfilling days. Today Dr. Boardman sits down with Dr. McBride to discuss finding wellness within illness, strength within stress, and how to live with anxiety rather than being defined by it. Dr. Boardman is here to help!Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription.You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on her Substack at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/podcast. You can sign up for her free weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.substack.com/welcome.Please be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here![00:00:00] Dr. McBride: Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is Beyond the Prescription, the show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight, that we are the integrated sum of complex parts.[00:00:33] Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story to find out whether they are okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter through my website at lucymcbride.com and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's get into it and go beyond the prescription.[00:01:01] Today's podcast guest is Dr. Samantha Boardman. Samantha is a positive psychiatrist, a clinical assistant professor at the Weill Cornell Medical College in New York, and the author of a book called Everyday Vitality. It's a book that combines her research as a clinical psychiatrist in New York to help readers find strength within their stress.[00:01:24] I met Dr. Boardman through a mutual friend. I started reading her book and listening to her talk on Instagram, and it was clear that we had a common interest in helping people marry mental and physical health. Today on the podcast, we will talk about when is therapy not appropriate? We'll talk about medication, we'll talk about Zoom versus in-person therapy, and we'll talk about leaning into our strengths as opposed to focusing on the negatives. Welcome to the podcast, Samantha. I'm so happy to have you.[00:01:53] Dr. Boardman: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm a huge fan.[00:01:57] Dr. McBride: So today, Samantha, I'd love to talk to you about many things. One is your definition of health. What does it mean to be healthy? So let's just start there.[00:02:07] Dr. Boardman: Great place to start. And so I think my definition of health has really changed over the past 20 years. Like you, I went to medical school and then I did a psychiatry residency. The definition of health for me then was the absence of illness. And what I thought of myself as doing my role was to make people less miserable as a psychiatrist.[00:02:30] And I've gotta tell you, I got pretty good at misery along the way. But one day I was actually fired by a patient who said, when I come to see you, we just focus on what's wrong with me. We don’t really focus on what's going on, what's wrong with what's going on in my life? [00:02:47] And she was right. I was so fixated on symptoms and dialing down the issues, dealing with conflicts in her life and that type of thing, and less focused on what makes life meaningful for her, what she enjoys doing and where she finds purpose. It sort of woke me up and I ended up going back to study applied positive psychology, which was sort of the opposite of everything I had learned in medical school, in psychiatry residency.[00:03:14] I studied optimism. I studied resilience. I studied post-traumatic growth. All these data-driven experiences that were really absent in my education and so much that had been focused on pathogenesis, which is the study and understanding of illness in switching over more to salutogenesis, which is the creation of health.[00:03:36] So this is a really long-winded way of saying, I think of health as so much more than the absence of illness, and I'm deeply interested in how we can help people create wellness within their illness and strength within their stress, and add vitality even into their very busy lives. And as you know, when we ask patients, what's most meaningful to you?[00:03:57] What do you care most about with your mental health? Or your health in general? People say, I want to have a good day. I want to feel energetic. I want to feel strong. I want to be able to give back. I want to spend time with friends and family and those types of things, that's what salutogenesis is—creating experiences of health and joy and meaning and vitality and energy for them in their everyday lives.[00:04:24] Dr. McBride: It's so important because just like you discovered along the path of your training and clinical work, I too realized that my job isn't just about helping people not die. It's about helping people live. And it's not enough to tell people at their annual physical, “Hey, your labs look fine. Get a little more exercise, eat a little healthier, and I'll see you next year.” Not dying is good. But what about living? What about having agency over our everyday lives the 364 days a year that you're not in the doctor's office? And what has always struck me since I was a pup of a medical student is that self-awareness is like ground zero for our health.[00:05:14] When we are able to pull the curtain back on who we are as people to understand not just our genetics, but really our stories and how our stories inform how we feel—literally our body parts—and then how we organize our everyday behaviors and thoughts around the narrative that we tell ourselves, and that's really why I became in interested in mental health and why I find your work so compelling is because I think we're having a moment in our culture where mental health is more acceptable to talk about; where people are more empathetic about mental illness.[00:05:55] I still think we don't have a great understanding of what mental health is. And to begin with that we all have it. And I wonder what you think about this concept of everyone having mental health and it's just on a continuum versus mental health versus mental illness. And then secondly, to what extent do you think just mere self-awareness is an important ingredient in having mental health?[00:06:25] Dr. Boardman: Both [of those are] awesome questions and I think that kind of you have it or you don't is this binary, and really limits us about either you're mentally healthy or you're not. And I think that's sort of the way I was trained. Not to be critical of my training, but that was either: you need to be hospitalized or you don't, you're ready for discharge… and not kind of looking at all of those other factors that you look so closely at.[00:06:51] They kind of give you and provide for you even this scaffolding around you to help you make better choices, to have more better actual days in your week. And this idea that how do you find wellness within illness? And it's something Dr. Ellen Sachs was the one who first I heard speak about this and she was a graduate student.[00:07:13] I think she was at Yale where she had her first psychotic break and she was diagnosed while she was a student there as having schizophrenia and having a psychotic illness, and her parents were told at the time that they should remove all the stress from her life, that she should withdraw from school, that it was too much for her to bear and that, you know, that maybe she could get some very simple job somewhere.[00:07:38] Maybe she could pump gas. She could do something that was not going to strain her or stress her in any way, and that most likely she should be hospitalized over again and again, and she might end up rocking back and forth in some institution watching television on lots of medication and drooling.[00:07:54] And she said her parents understood this diagnosis, but they refused to accept this prognosis. And she had support, she had resources. She went back to school. She had psychiatrists, she had therapists. She, I mean, she was, she was supported by so many buoys around her and scaffolding.[00:08:15] She returns to school, she finishes at Yale. She then goes on to Oxford where she gets a degree as a champion of mental health law. She goes on to win a MacArthur Genius Grant. She's an extraordinary woman and defies how people like me are trained into sort of expect that runway of what schizophrenia can do to a human being.[00:08:36] And you know, and she says that actually having this meaningful work in her life has really been, is what saved her. When her voices get loud, she uses her legal training to say, what evidence do you have for that? And how having a really strong sort of sense of purpose in her life has really saved her.[00:08:55] So when psychiatrists like me say, take all the stress out of your life. Remove anything difficult. How do we find that balance for people of helping them lead that kind of meaningful life in finding wellness within their illness, and even for those who don't have a diagnosable condition… [finding] some strength within their stress so they can live with it.[00:09:18] It's not being able to… I think we've all learned about Winston Churchill, who had that black dog of depression, but learning to live with it rather than trying to sweep it under the rug or be in denial about it. Or completely defined by this. And we know even with the language we use when you call somebody a schizophrenic versus somebody who has schizophrenia, not only does it change the way that the person thinks about themselves, but it also changes the way that the people who work with them think about them.[00:09:47] If that is part of their identity, that's who they are versus that something they live with. And it comes and it goes. And there's interesting, Jess Day has done some really interesting research on schizophrenia looking at how a significant number find happiness, find meaning, and it's those who have some of these more lifestyle factors available to them that do make them more resilient.[00:10:09] Dr. McBride: It's a really good point. You wouldn't be surprised to hear, I had a patient who exhibited all the symptoms of depression. Fatigue, sort of that psychomotor fatigue, that sort of hopelessness joylessness, and then was gaining weight. And we didn't have another diagnosis because we had done all the tests, we'd done the scans and everything was normal.[00:10:28] And I said, “do you think it's possible that you're depressed?” And she looked at me and said, “what do I have to be depressed about?” And I thought, gosh, this is such an interesting thing. This is someone who unfortunately is a victim of this concept that you're either mentally healthy or you're mentally not.[00:10:46] When we all have moods, it's a continuum, and my question to patients isn't, do you have an ICD 10 code of F 32.9? My question is, where are you on the continuum of mood and what tools do you have to manage them? What symptoms are you having and what tools do you have? Because it's not about are you mentally healthy? Are you mentally well? And it's not about, are you happy all the time and joyful and gleeful and skipping through the streets, or lying in bed or standing on the edge of a cliff about to jump. It's where are you located on the continuum of these universal conditions of having moods, having fears, having anxieties.[00:11:26] And so I said to her, it's really not about a thing, it's about what's happening to your body and mind right now. And I don't need to name it. I don't even need a code or a label for it. I just want to understand if this is an organic depressive phenomenon, what agency we can carve out to help you feel better in your everyday life.[00:11:47] Dr. Boardman: That interesting point that you're making too, that she's feeling guilty about, what do I have that… that question your patient asks, what do I have to be depressed about? And that's something I hear a lot in people who think, “I'm so lucky. How on earth, how dare I be in this state of mind? It’s shameful.” And I think this sort of goes hand in hand with some of this toxic positivity we hear all the time as well. You have to be happy all the time. You have to not have stress, you have to sort of have that sort of fan wind blown hair and that everything has to be perfect or there's something really wrong with you.[00:12:24] And what you're pointing out too is this notion of over the course of a day, over the course of a week, over the course of a minute, how our emotions can shift and it's calling into question, this idea of your personality type, you're just a grump and all those different things.[00:12:42] Maybe I'm a grump right now because I just got a parking ticket. But if I actually filled out some of those forms testing my personality an hour or two later, I would probably be in a better mood. All of these, we have so much emodiversity in our days and how things come and go and actually there's evidence to show that people who honor and are able to acknowledge their emodiversity…we have this like binary idea that either people are good or you're bad. You had a good day, or you had a bad day, you're happy or you're sad. Anything that really kind of limits the way we think about our own mental health. It's even the way we think about our loved one's mental health, trying to tease apart the nuance and appreciate the emodiversity that we're handing, like enjoying the laughter through tears.[00:13:28] How we can hold emotions side by side. It's not that either or situation. And the other side of this is this kind of wellbeing industrial complex that is: feeding off of toxic positivity too, this idea that we need to really make these radical changes and transform every single thing we do.Like: we should move neighborhoods. We need to go on vacation for six months. We need to buy this candle or this bubble bath, or this new exercise bike, or all of these wildly expensive and time consuming endeavors that we are kind of constantly told are the only way that the clouds will part and that we will be able to be happier.[00:14:15] And I think that it really frustrates me and it's sort of like a pet peeve as you can tell. I'm getting sort of animated and annoyed by it. But this, this idea that you have to buy it and consume it and carve out all this time for it and that we're kind of missing a lot of these everyday actions that we can take that boost our everyday wellbeing.[00:14:34] Dr. McBride: So let's talk about that. I'm assuming that in your practice you see patients who are experiencing relationship stress, who…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Trust Your Gut Apr 17, 2023
    Show notes

    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!Did you know things like sugar-free gum, Advil, or simply eating too fast can cause gas and bloating? Everything we put into our ecosystem affects our gut health.Our gut often reflects our emotional health, too. In today’s solo podcast, Dr. McBride explains the practical framework she created to help patients conceptualize their health, integrating medical evidence, the patient’s story, and real life.She calls it the FOUR “I”s:* Information & data = the elements of our health that we can measure and see.* Inputs = everything that we put into our health ecosystem.* Infrastructure = the vehicle (i.e., the skeleton) that drives us through life.* Insight = the process of laddering up from self-awareness to acceptance to agency over our health and well-being.It turns out that this framework can help explain and trouble-shoot common gastrointestinal woes.Health is about more than the absence of disease. Health is about having awareness of data and the stories we tell ourselves, acceptance over the things we can't control, and agency over our life.Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription.You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on her Substack at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/podcast. You can sign up for her free weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.substack.com/welcome.Please be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here!Intro: Hello and welcome to my home office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is Beyond the Prescription. Today it's just you and me. Every other week this season, I'll talk to you like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as a process of self-awareness, acceptance, and agency.[00:00:28] In clinical practice for over 20 years, I have found that patients generally want the same things: a framework to evaluate their risks; access to the truth and data; and tools and actionable information to be healthy mentally and physically. We all want to feel more in control of our health. Here, I'll talk to you about how to be a little more okay tomorrow than you are today. Let's go.[00:00:56] Today is a deep dive into gastrointestinal health. There is no possible way I could cover every crevice of the vast amount of knowledge we have on the gut, but I will focus on common things I see and common causes for gastrointestinal distress that often are missed. You may remember from a couple of months ago that I explained in detail the visual representation of how I think about patients.[00:01:26] I call it the four I’s. It's a two by two grid. Imagine a box with four squares in it. And today what I want to do is talk about the gut and how the different I’s inform gastrointestinal health using some patient examples, things that I see commonly in my office. You can listen to that 15 minute podcast about the four I's for more of a dance remix version of the concept. But briefly, the four i's, are this: the top left square is information. Information and data. Things we can measure, things we can see like lab tests and colonoscopy reports. The top right corner is inputs; things we put in our body from kale and quinoa to alcohol and recreational drugs.[00:02:15] The bottom left box is infrastructure. Our skeleton, literally the skeleton, literally the vehicle we drive through life, the container of all of our parts. And then finally, the bottom right box is insight. Awareness of the stories that we tell ourselves. Awareness of how our stories manifest in our bodies, and our understanding of our mental health, our anxiety, our moods, our relationships with food, alcohol, each other, and so on.[00:02:45] So let's talk about a common complaint I see. I don’t think a day goes by in my clinic where I don't see someone who has gastrointestinal complaints like bloating, irregular stools, gas or abdominal discomfort. Now the list of possible diagnoses for these complaints is vast, from diverticulitis to colon cancer to I ate a hot chili pepper. [00:03:11] But common things are common. That's a very favorite expression that doctors use all the time. And so I wanted to go through how I might conceptualize thinking about the diagnosis or how to help a patient troubleshoot these symptoms when it's sort of bread and butter. Take a middle-aged guy who comes in complaining of bloating, gas, and irregular bowel movements.[00:03:32] When I think about the top left square, that information, I want to know, what do his lab tests look like? If he's over the age of 45, has he had a colonoscopy? Because 45 is the age where we start screening colonoscopies. By the way, if you have a family history, you should start earlier. So I want to know what's going on internally.[00:03:52] What's his information? For example, if his lab tests show that he has hyperthyroidism or liver enzyme abnormalities, or a pancreas problem or celiac disease, that may directly inform how I'm going to recommend treatment. In other words, the data and the things we can measure are very important. So let's say he had a normal colonoscopy.[00:04:14] Let's say his liver tests are normal, his pancreas is normal, his gallbladder is normal, and his blood counts show no evidence of infection or inflammation, and he's negative for celiac disease. So those are just some broad brush stroke tests I might order. I also might not order tests because sometimes it's a simple solution, but let's say that his information is normal.[00:04:35] Then we'd move over to the inputs. That's the one I'm most interested in. When people have these kinds of complaints, I want to know, how much alcohol do they drink? What is the cadence of their eating? Are they eating a lot of processed, greasy food? Are they consuming a lot of sugar? What's the level of acidity in their diet and how fast do they eat? People who eat fast often swallow a lot of air and can get gas in the colon. Do they drink a lot of soda? Do they chew gym? Sugar-free gum is notorious for causing gas and bloating. So I would do a thorough history of what the patient's inputs are. What are they putting in their ecosystem?[00:05:15] Sometimes people can get gas and bloating from taking too much fiber. I think most people know that fiber is healthy and fiber can help with digestion. But if people escalate the dose of their fiber intake too quickly, that can backfire and they can get bloating and gas. This is a common phenomena. The other thing I would ask in the input department is, are they taking any supplements or vitamins? Because even though supplements and vitamins are considered natural, sometimes they contain fillers or the supplement itself can accidentally cause bloating and gas. Magnesium, for example, which people often take to help them sleep, can cause diarrhea. [00:05:50] It’s important to think about all the different things you put in your ecosystem and how they might affect your digestive health. One of the most helpful interventions I find for patients with this kind of complaint is to keep a food journal. It sounds really boring and it sounds kind of onerous, but writing down every single thing you eat is kind of an interesting exercise.[00:06:12] People often connect the dots between their digestive health, their mood, their energy, and their bloating and gas when they look at the things they're eating. It's really interesting how mindlessly we consume foods, supplements, vitamins, and how little attention we pay to the things we pop into our mouth all day long. So I would suggest writing things down if you haven't done it already and you have this complaint.[00:06:35] The next quadrant I would look at is infrastructure, our skeleton. So it's not uncommon for people who have a bum hip, a bum knee, an aching back to pop an Advil, to take Tylenol, to take supplements that are over the counter that they think will help with their achy joints and skeletal health. One of the more common triggers of gastrointestinal stress is NSAID's, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications. Advil is one of them. Aleve. Naproxen. So we want to think about are we taking any medicines to treat our skeletal woes? And then we can also think about pain and how pain itself can cause distress. Distress can show up in the gut.[00:07:17] The other thing we need our skeleton for is just basic, everyday mobility. If we have some sort of limitation in our mobility, or we're just living a sedentary lifestyle, like we sit behind a desk most days, then that can affect our gut function, too. Often, one of the solutions for a chronic constipation is just regular walking, regular exercise, hydration, and movement to get our motor running. Our infrastructure really does matter. Sometimes just moving our bodies, hydrating and avoiding Advil is the way to keep our gut healthy. [00:07:49] Moving over to the insight quadrant, it never ceases to amaze me how patients will report to me these terrible gastrointestinal woes. We will think it may be an appendicitis, a diverticulitis. They will have a colonoscopy, they'll have extensive lab work and maybe even a CAT scan. And some of the times we find a diagnosis, someone has diverticulitis and I put them on ciprofloxacin and Metron dissolve for 10 days and they get better. Other people have a diagnosis that we can name through blood work like celiac disease or inflammatory bowel disease like Crohn's or ulcerative colitis.[00:08:24] When a patient has gastrointestinal distress and we have no obvious cause, tis is when I get my mojo on because I love talking about how our gut is often the home for our emotional health. It sounds kooky to many people, but I see it every day. Stress and anxiety in particular can manifest itself in our gastrointestinal tract. So when I have a patient who has a normal set of labs, normal imaging, a normal colonoscopy, and they're still suffering, we default to calling this irritable bowel syndrome. Now, patients often don't like having that diagnosis because they consider it a throwaway diagnosis. And I totally understand that because being diagnosed with IBS or Irritable Bowel Syndrome feels like the medical establishment is dismissing the patient.[00:09:13] It’s like, we can't figure it out. We're gonna slap a diagnosis of IBS on it, and say, “see you next time, good luck.” But irritable bowel syndrome is a real phenomenon. It is literally the spasm and irritability of our colon, and it's from something. Just because it's IBS doesn't mean it's not real. IBS, however, is not a life-threatening diagnosis. It is not a result of inflammation. It is simply a functional issue that is often driven by emotional distress. One of my favorite exercises with patients is to take inventory of where they are on the continuum of anxiety. Where are they on the continuum of mood? Where are they on the continuum of their relationship with work, parenting, caregiving and just being alive in the modern world.?[00:10:03] In other words, we all have fears. We all have moods, we all have relationships to food, alcohol, our work, and to each other. When those things are on the fritz, when our anxiety is out of proportion to the actual threat; when our moods are not stable, despite our best effort to get sleep and to get exercise; and when our mental health is not in balance; those are often the triggers for gastrointestinal distress. So sometimes, dare I say, often the solution for gastrointestinal woes, if we can't find an obvious cause again, to identify thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that are causing us to feel distressed. In the short term, I will recommend to a patient that they try this, I don't wanna call it a diet because diet to me implies weight loss, but there's a diet, or actually call it a framework called the low FODMAP Diet.[00:10:55] You may have heard of the FODMAP Diet from a friend or on the internet or on Instagram. And when people say the FODMAP diet, they often mean a diet that is low in FODMAPs, F-O-D-M-A-P-S. And the diet is really designed to help people with irritable bowel syndrome, and one of the problems I think people run into is I give them the list of foods and they accidentally hear me say, cut all these foods out of your diet and good luck.[00:11:20] That's not my plan. All I want people to do is use that list of foods that are potentially irritating to the gut, that potentially accelerate that gastrointestinal spasticity and see if they can connect the dots between what they're eating by that journal we talked about and how they feel in their gut. FODMAP stands for Fermentable, oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides, and Polyols.[00:11:45] What that basically means is that these are some foods that the small intestine absorbs very poorly, and people can experience cramping, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, and gas. So one of the occupational hazards of recommending the low FODMAP diet to patients is that people often go and restrict and then feel worse.[00:12:03] Maybe their diarrhea and cramping is better, but they're hungry. So the other potential occupational hazard of recommending the low FODMAP diet is people using the diet as a panacea and not then addressing the other triggers of their irritable bowel in the first place. From work stress to the Advil they took for the headache to the alcohol they overdid and kind of forgot they did because they didn't count it because it was the weekend.[00:12:29] In other words, there's really no one size fits all prescription for IBS/irritable bowel syndrome. But in my experience, it's usually a little bit of a lot of things and it's usually one little piece of something from the information quadrant. Maybe you have a predisposition to constipation or diarrhea given your family history.[00:12:51] It's one little piece from the inputs, like maybe you had too much alcohol and you didn't really register it, or maybe you're eating too much tomato or Brussels sprouts. Maybe it's in the infrastructure space where your body isn't moving enough. You need to give your body and your colon a little more time and space for activity.[00:13:09] And then sometimes it's in the insight. We need to recognize that our stories live in our bodies, and that self-awareness is often the key to health and wellbeing. So that is my little spiel about gastrointestinal health. It's pretty basic, but I find often that when we have these symptoms, we tend to overdo and over-test and over-worry when actually some of the solutions that I find the most helpful are really, really simple.[00:13:35] It's paying attention to thoughts, feeling. Taking stock of what we're putting in our body and our everyday habits, and then thinking from the ground up about how to be more self-aware and how to problem solve using a very basic set of tools we already have inside us. I hope that's helpful. If you enjoyed this podcast, I would be so happy if you liked it, if you subscribed, and if you recommended it to a friend. Thank you so much for joining me, and I'll see you next time. Get full access to Are You Okay? at lucymcbride.substack.com/subscribe

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    Melissa Urban on Overcoming Addiction Apr 10, 2023
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    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!On this episode, Melissa Urban talks candidly with Dr. McBride about her struggle with drugs—and how her recovery stemmed from creating healthy boundaries around food, substances, and interpersonal relationships. Her latest book, The Book of Boundaries, is about the importance of setting limits on relationships and choices, and putting ourselves back in the driver’s seat of our health and wellbeing.Melissa is living proof that health is about laddering up from self-awareness to acceptance to agency of our body and mind. Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast or at https://lucymcbride.Substack.com/listen.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here!Dr. McBride: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription," the show where I talk with my guests, like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight. Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.com/newsletter and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's get into it and go beyond the prescription.Today's guest has been on the New York Times' bestselling list six times. She is the creator of the Whole30, which is not just a diet plan. It's a way to rethink our relationship with food. Melissa Urban joins me today to talk about overcoming addiction and the lessons learned in recovery that inform how she thinks about food, nutrition, body image, and the boundaries we set in our everyday lives. Melissa's newest book is called "The Book of Boundaries," published in October 2022. In it, she describes how we can say yes to things we need and want and no to things we don't to put ourselves back on the driver's seat of our health. Boundaries, in my world and in hers, provide the groundwork for improved health and well-being. Melissa Urban, thank you so much for joining me today.Melissa: [00:01:48] Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you.Dr. McBride: Here's why I wanted to have you on the show. The way you talk about boundaries and the importance of setting limits on our relationships, our choices, is so important to how we show up in the world, how we relate to food, how we relate to alcohol and other substances, how we relate to other people, and how we feel about our own bodies that it's really at the core of what, in my opinion, health is. [00:02:17] Health, as I introduce in this podcast, is about self-awareness, and it's about acceptance, and it's about having agency. And having agency, in my opinion, includes knowing what we need and knowing what we don't need, which is driven, ultimately, by knowing our value and our meaning and our purpose. So that is a wide lens with which to open the conversation and for me to ask you, Melissa. How do you, as an expert in nutrition and eating and health, define health yourself?Melissa: Well, that's a big question to open with. You're just going right for it.Dr. McBride: We're going to go right from the top, and then we're going to get granular.Melissa: [00:02:57] I had to do a piece recently for Oprah Daily where we talked about the concept of wholeness and what does wholeness mean to me, and I think that that can relate very nicely to this idea of what health means to me. So I think, very often, we look at health through a very narrow lens, and often, when it comes to diet culture, it's through the lens of body size. I mean, they are just absolutely equated that the smaller your body, the healthier you are. If you take a step back from that, maybe you're looking at health from the perspective of, "What does my diet look like? Do I have a movement practice? What does my sleep look like?"[00:03:31] But even more than that, there are so many different factors that make up this concept of health or wholeness. I'm looking at it from a physiological perspective. So, do I have the energy to do the things that I want to do in my life to keep up with my kid, to do the recreational activities that make me happy? Do I feel satisfied from a personal development standpoint? Do I feel like I'm working on myself and I have the time and capacity to do some self-awareness or do therapy? Do I feel like I have a spiritual practice, whatever that looks like? Whether I'm connected to God or the universe or just my own highest self, am I cultivating that spiritual practice? Do I have social health? Do I feel like I have good connections with other people in my community? Do I feel like I have support? Do I feel like I'm not isolated?[00:04:16] I think there are a lot of different aspects of health. You have to look at them from a position of wholeness. You can't just look at any one aspect, because one aspect can be going very, very well, but if all of the others are falling behind or you're not paying attention to them, to me, that doesn't feel particularly healthy or feel like thriving.Dr. McBride: You couldn't have said it better, and it dovetails exactly with the way I think about health. It's not about the absence of disease. It's about the integrated sum of different components. It's about nutrition, body mechanics, self-awareness, which includes awareness of our medical vulnerabilities, which are often genetic and environmental, and it also includes, as I said earlier, that sense of agency. When I think of agency, I think of the ability to execute on goals that are yours and only yours. That's a luxury for a lot of people to have the opportunity to grow and to personally grow health-wise, grow professionally, grow relationships. But I think agency can also be on a really small level, feeling more in control of our everyday habits and even our everyday thoughts.Melissa: [00:05:21] I agree. You know, when you say agency, I immediately think about self-efficacy, this idea that, like, I feel as though I am able to accomplish the things that I want, and sometimes that involves, if I think back to my recovery and the serenity prayer, giving me the patience to accept the things I can't control and, leave them out, but recognize that, for the most part, I do have control over how I choose to respond to those situations in that I usually or almost always can have agency. And again, there's an element of unacknowledged privilege in that statement alone, but we'll just say that agency, to me, does involve this aspect of self-efficacy and recognizing the things that I can't do while making strides on the things that I can.Dr. McBride: [00:06:02] At the risk of repeating myself on this podcast, and my listeners may be, like, "Oh my God, there she goes again, talking about the serenity prayer," the serenity prayer, like, it's kind of the final common pathway of so many different conversations I have with patients, whether it's about parenting, like, letting of the fact that your teen doesn't want to talk to you right now and accepting that's normal for their age, and leaning into the opportunities, you have to talk to them when you're driving a car and it's quiet and there's no eye contact, to managing your addiction to alcohol, accepting you don't have control and leaning into the parts of your life that you do have control, finding joy and pleasure in other places and asking for help. [00:06:40] I’d love to, therefore, pivot to the conversation about your addiction and your health, because you grappled with addiction to heroin, cocaine add other substances. And so I'm aware that you, like so many of us had enormous struggle as a younger person, and I'm imagining also that informed a lot of how you are today and show up today. Can you talk a bit about that process, not that that can ever be encapsulated in a quick podcast?Melissa: [00:07:15] Yeah. I mean, you know, my drug addiction started when I was about 18, and it came as the result of some sexual abuse I experienced at 16 by somebody I was very close to. And I had just...you know, after that experience, I didn't tell anyone for a year. I didn't know how to handle it. When I did tell my family, they didn't respond super well. It was a really challenging situation that I was definitely not equipped to handle. And so I was looking for ways to essentially escape my own life. And I tried drinking, and that didn't work. And I tried restricting my eating, and that didn't work. And I tried dating guys who were terrible for me, and that didn't work. And it wasn't until I tried drugs that I was like, "Oh, this is it. Here we are. Here's the thing that can pull me so far away from myself." And I was addicted for...Dr. McBride: Can I interrupt you for a quick second?Melissa: Yeah. Dr. McBride: [00:08:00] I'm going to guess you weren't aware at the time you were dating the wrong guys and restricting calories, that you weren't aware that you were self-medicating. You were just doing it. Or were you that aware of your own pain?Melissa: I was pretty aware.Dr. McBride: You knew what you were escaping, like, "Oh, I'm going to go, like, looking on a menu of things to self-soothe. And here they are."Melissa: [00:08:17] I don't think I could go that far, but what I knew was that I did not want to be in my own life, and I was very actively looking for things that would take me away. I don't think I could have explained it any more eloquently than that at the time because I didn't have the language and I didn't have the tools. But I knew that I was hurt so much, and I didn't want to be there, and I was looking for something to take me out a bit. That was about my experience.Dr. McBride: It's interesting because, as you know, sexual abuse, sexual trauma, is so common and so commonly ignored by all parties. Like, because it's so stigmatized and so shameful to talk about in people's minds, people often don't know they're self-medicating. They don't know until they're in a real bind that their alcohol use is related to that trauma. And it's not a lack of intelligence, it's just a lack of insight. So it's impressive to me that, at an early age, you knew your feelings and you just didn't have an outlet.Melissa: [00:09:09] My sexual abuse was, like, a record scratch in my life. Up until that point, I was the good kid. I didn't get in trouble. I got good grades. I read a lot. I was quiet. Everybody liked me. But, like, I wasn't super popular. I mean, it was a very middle-of-the-road. Like, I was about as even-keeled as they came. And then, after that incident, everything went sideways, my behavior in school, I started acting out, my behavior with my family and with my parents, I started dressing differently. So, to me, it was very obvious that all of these things were related to this incident of sexual abuse, but I hadn't told anybody. So, to everyone else, it looked like it was coming way out of left field, but I knew what was happening.Dr. McBride: You didn't want help in the beginning, right? You wanted to hold that boundary so tight that you weren't going to let people in. But, like, what happened? When did you get kind of caught or busted, or when did you get enough insight to know this is a real problem and affecting your everyday health? Melissa: [00:10:00] Pretty dang early on, you know. I dove in as hard and as fast as you could. I didn't have a drug of choice, which I now know is quite unusual. I only dated drug dealers for five years. And very quickly, I realized that this thing that I was using to escape from my problem had now become a problem unto itself, and now I had a problem layered on top of problems. And I was like, "Well, I'm this far in. I don't really know what else to do." And so this is the cycle that addicts get stuck in, whether you're talking about food addiction or drug addiction or alcohol. I overconsumed, and I hated myself for it. And I had guilt, and I had shame, and it led to isolation. And that led to stress, and that led me to overconsume the very thing that I hated myself for doing. And I was stuck in that cycle for a very long time because I didn't know how to get out of it.[00:10:45] And it wasn't until I had this moment of, like, literal divine intervention with a boyfriend who was miraculously stable and wasn't a drug addict who gave me, essentially, an ultimatum and said, like, "You need to go to rehab. I can now see how problematic your behavior is and how much you're killing yourself. And, like, I really want to see you go. Would you consider going? And if you can't go, I'm going to have to leave. I can't watch you do this to yourself." And in that moment, I somehow found the strength to be, like, "Okay, I'll go."Dr. McBride: That person set a really good boundary, and they knew what they needed from a relationship, and they were trying to use their own healthy boundaries to help you. It's just an important moment in your life.Melissa: [00:11:21] He's my favorite ex-boyfriend, for a reason. I talked to him not that long ago. We texted, you know, just a couple of months ago, and I was like, "Hey, in my book, I'm still calling you my favorite ex-boyfriend." And he's like, "I will always cherish that," you know. But, yeah, he literally saved my life, and he did set boundaries with me. He set boundaries while I was using. He would say, "We can't have this conversation if you are this high. So when you come down, let's talk because we need to talk," or "It's okay that you stay out late, but you need to call me to let me know where you are. Otherwise, I worry." He tried to set boundaries for me for his own protection because I was destroying him and the relationship, and ultimately, that was what got me to rehab the first time.Dr. McBride: [00:11:59] One of the things I find so interesting and this is getting really granular, is, like, what was it about him that allowed you to trust and receive that message? In other words, I'm guessing there are other people in your life who were, like, "Melissa, get a grip. Melissa, you're sick. Melissa, you need help." What's interesting to me is, like, the messenger in that moment and who has access to someone who needs help and who needs to make important changes in their lives. And I wonder what it was about him that gave you the kind of confidence and openness to receive that message, given that I'm guessing other people had said similar things.Melissa: [00:12:33] It was the moment. I remember very clearly sitting on the couch. I had just been paid. My money had been... Because I was very functional as an addict. I still had a job. And I had just been paid, and all the money was in my bank account. And I remember him saying, like, "I need you to go to rehab, or I'm going to have to leave." And I remember calculating how much heroin I could buy with the money that was in my bank account and know…

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    How to Turn Injury into Opportunity Apr 03, 2023
    Show notes

    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!How often do you think about your skeletal health? Too often, we take mobility, absence of pain, and physicality for granted—that is, until we are sidelined.Whether we’re nursing a torn ACL, an arthritic hip, or an osteoporosis-related fracture, even temporary immobility can alter our physical and mental health. It can threaten our sense of self.Health is about more than the absence of pain or disease; about more than just treating the physical symptoms of a condition. Health is about taking a holistic approach to wellness and recognizing that we are the integrated sum of complex parts. Health is about having awareness of data and the stories we tell ourselves, acceptance over the things we can't control, and agency over our life.In today’s solo podcast, Dr. McBride discusses the importance of caring for our skeleton like we do our cars—taking it to the shop when it breaks down, and providing regular maintenance.She gives three examples—including herself!—of people whose physical injuries force them to reckon with their healthHow do you care for your skeleton? What can an injury teach you about your health? What is the relationship, for you, between mobility and mental health?Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast or at https://lucymcbride.Substack.com/listen.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here! Dr. Lucy McBride: [Intro] Hello and welcome to my home office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is Beyond the Prescription. Today. It's just you and me. Every other week this season, I'll talk to you like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as a process of self-awareness, acceptance, and agency.[00:00:28] In clinical practice for over 20 years, I have found that patients generally want the same things—a framework to evaluate their risks, access to the truth and data and tools and actionable information to be healthy mentally and physically. We all want to feel more in control of our health. Here, I'll talk to you about how to be a little more okay tomorrow than you are today. Let's go.[00:00:56] [Episode] Hello, everyone and welcome to my solo podcast. Today we're going to be talking about skeletal health and what happens to our bodies and minds when we are out of commission. Today is the final game of March Madness, and I don't know about you, but I am pretty obsessed with March Madness. I love how it signals the beginning of spring.[00:01:14] I love the friendly competition of all the brackets, and my family's pretty obsessed with the games. I am no basketball aficionado, but I really enjoy looking at the athleticism, the strength, and the grit on the courts. I also can't help but wonder what these guys are gonna look like when they're patients in their fifties, sixties, and seventies, for example, when they've had a lot of overuse injuries and they show up in the doctor's office, perhaps like mine.[00:01:40] I think it's important we acknowledge we each have only one skeleton that drives us through life, and we cannot trade in our skeleton like we can our Honda or our Prius. We can only take care of it the best way we possibly can. We can only do maintenance. And I think it's interesting. Many of us take our cars to the shop to rotate the tires, change the oil, align the axles—more than we take care of our skeletons or take them into the shop.[00:02:06] And by the shop, I mean to a physical therapist or other body. Okay, so why does this matter? Why do we need to think about skeletal health? Why do we need to think about injury prevention and why do we need to treat our skeletons at least as well as we do our cars? The short story is this: our skeletal health is foundational.[00:02:26] A couple of months ago, I unveiled the visual representation of the way I think about patients’ health. I call it the four I’s. It's a two by two grid, and the way I think about health is that we are the integrated sum of these different components, these four I’s that intersect and that really talk to each other all day long.[00:02:48] One I is information and data. The second I is inputs—all the things we put in our ecosystem. Another I is infrastructure—our skeletal health, the container that drives us through life. And this is what we'll focus on today. And the fourth I is insight. Our self-awareness and our understanding of how our story lives in our body.[00:03:08] In this ecosystem, I have assigned an entire quadrant just to skeletal health. That is because our skeletons are essential and foundational to our whole health and the way we move our physicality directly affects our medical information. It also affects our insight and self-awareness, so it's essential that we care for the bones, the muscles, and the connective tissue that carry us through life.[00:03:33] When these systems are going well, we tend not to notice. When we're walking, jogging, swimming, lifting our grandchildren, putting luggage in the overhead compartments and playing bridge, knitting, gardening, and living our lives without any discomfort or limitation, we tend not to notice. We tend not to pay attention to our skeleton.[00:03:56] We end up taking it for granted and thinking it is going to be there for us whenever we need it. But guess what? Every now and then we blow a gasket. Every now and then the muffler starts rattling before we even blow the proverbial gasket. And what I see in my office is people who are experiencing pain, discomfort, limitations in their range of motion, limitations in their quality of life and their ability to do the things they want to do.[00:04:22] And in the case of people who have exercise routines who are managing their cholesterol or their heart health, or their mental health with exercise, being sidelined has major, major consequences. It affects our physical health, our mental health. It can affect our sleep, it can affect our whole sense of self.[00:04:39] Let me give you three examples. I have a number of patients who are student-athletes. Either they play high school sports or college sports. And you know, these young athletes are very accustomed to being strong, fast, nimble, and not limited in their ability to perform. And so when an injury happens, It can be devastating. Not only can they experience pain and disability, they can also experience a crisis of identity. Particularly as kids tend to specialize in sports earlier and earlier these days, their identity can very much easily get wrapped up in their sport and their performance. I have a patient who's a young woman who plays collegiate soccer at a very high level, and when she tore her ACL—which is an important ligament in the knee—in her season, she was devastated.[00:05:26] She was experiencing quite a lot of pain after her surgery and was having a difficult time rehabilitating her knee. Unfortunately, the orthopedist was giving her more pain medicine—more Percocet—and that was making her feel more blue, more disconnected, and she came into my office wondering what to do.[00:05:43] I'll give you a second example. An 80 year old patient of mine broke his femur. The femur is the thighbone, and he broke it because he fell and he has osteoporosis. Now this man was an incredibly proud man. He'd had an extraordinary career doing diplomatic work overseas and he had taken great pride and joy in caring for his beloved wife who had died three years prior from Alzheimer's. Mobility to him was not just about getting exercise, which he was good about doing to manage his heart health. It was also about socializing with his friends. It was about playing cards with the guys once a week. It was about taking his dog for a walk every evening and looking at the bench and the tree where he and his wife would sit every evening.[00:06:26] In other words, mobility is not just about exercise. It is about our daily activities, our daily life, our daily ability to function. When he came into my office to talk about the upcoming surgery for his femur, he was noticeably distraught. He wasn't in pain physically, he was in despair over his loss of independence and sense of identity.[00:06:48] I'll give you a third example, and it's me. When I was in college, I developed depression. I didn't know that's what it was at the time, nor did the myriad doctors I saw for the various physical symptoms I brought into them. In fact, they thought that I had things like giardia or an autoimmune disease instead of just asking me, are you okay, and basic screening questions about mood and anxiety and stress. One of the solutions that was suggested to me for this mysterious disease that no one could name, and for which I had no vocabulary to discuss, was running. And so I began running in college and running made me feel better. Running made me feel really good.[00:07:25] In fact, running in retrospect was providing me with dopamine. It gave me pleasure and joy and some sense of relief from this uncomfortable feeling I was experiencing. But the problem was, guess what? When you only run and you don't do stretching and you don't do any other activities, you get injured. And I did. I developed tendonitis in my knees and I couldn't run, and guess what? I got depressed.[00:07:46] The point of these three anecdotes is that our skeletons matter not for the reasons we often think. Most people understand that exercise is good for us, that it can help prevent everything from dementia, depression, and diabetes. And indeed I spend a lot of time in my office trying to help people exercise in ways that are sustainable and realistic for their lives. But the reason I so commonly emphasize movement, structural stability, structural integrity of our skeleton, is not just because exercise is cool, exercise is good for us. It's because we literally need our skeletons for our identity, for our mood, and for our ability to function. So when I'm talking to a patient about their skeletal health, I'm not simply saying exercise is good for you. Go do it. [00:08:33] I want to know the why, the how, and the what. I want to understand what kind of movement gives them joy, what gives them pleasure, and what limitations in mobility they have that they might not even have identified? What are the things in their life that they live to do that requires skeletal mobility and flexibility and strength? Let's think about exercise, not just as a way to fit in your jeans or to run the next marathon. Let's think about it as a way to move through your everyday life. [00:09:01] My other question is this—What hurts? What is your body telling you about what needs to change? I need to know if you're experiencing pain in your low back, because that may be a signal that we need to work on tightening up your core muscles or your pelvic floor. In other words, we need to listen to those mufflers when they rattle because they are telling us something. They are giving us clues to a part of our body that needs attending. And if I had one lesson for you today, it's to listen to your body. Listen to your skeleton. It matters. So to my patient who's torn her ACL and is recovering postoperatively, I want her to think about exercise in a new way.[00:09:39] I want her to use this injury as an opportunity to reflect on her identity. I want her to think about—who am I beyond a college athlete? So as much as she didn't want to, she embarked on a project of increased self-awareness. She started doing daily meditation. She started cultivating friendships with people who are not athletes and realizing that, wow, there's a lot more to school and to her social life than playing soccer. Her injury had actually given her permission to explore the ways in which her physicality was central to her identity, but also not sufficient to define her. [00:10:13] So was there any silver lining for my patient who broke his femur? Well, not right away. After a surgery like that, you're in rehabilitation for many months. You're doing physical therapy twice a week and really building back your strength gradually. As you may or may not know, when you break your femur, it causes atrophy of the surrounding muscles, the glutes, the hamstrings, the quadriceps, and it's a lot of work to rehabilitate those muscles, particularly when you're older.[00:10:41] So I wouldn't say that there was a real silver lining for this gentleman, but I would say that it forced him to reflect on his mortality in a way he hadn't done. Having to plumb the depths of his grief without the benefit of exercise and socialization as he had been accustomed to since his wife died. It forced him to reckon with a lot of uncomfortable feelings that he had not dug up. And while I wouldn't wish that on anybody, he did tell me towards the end of his recovery from his hip surgery that he had learned more about himself having been sidelined than he would've other. So after his recovery, I reminded him that he was really, really one of the healthiest 81 year olds I'd had in a long time.[00:11:20] And finally, what about me? So when I was injured and I could no longer run in college, I connected the dots between my physical self and my mental health, and that was a valuable lesson. It was painful because I had no other tools in the toolkit to manage depression. I had nothing. Moreover, I didn't have any vocabulary with which to talk about feelings, and I didn't have healthcare providers to know how to guide me or even to make an appropriate diagnosis. But it did force me to really dig deep into my internal arsenal of tools and to cultivate other coping strategies because I had to, I had no other choice. So what is my point in telling you about these three anecdotes? It is to say that movement, physicality, mobility, range of motion, absence of pain, those things we take for granted until we're sidelined.[00:12:14] I ask you to do this. Think about your skeleton for just a minute. Take a survey, going from your neck all the way down. What is hurting? What is tight? What is strong? What is weak? What hurts? Taking stock of our muscles, our bones, our joints, and our structural integrity, and taking that moment of mindfulness about our own bodies is step one.[00:12:41] Step two is the context. What about your skeleton is allowing you to do the things in your life you want to do and what is holding you back? Maybe you have no problems with your skeletal health because you're young, because you happen to be an athlete and because you just haven't been injured. Or maybe you can do the things you want to do because you've worked really hard on pelvic floor muscle tone since you've had three children, and that is the reason your herniated disc is no longer bothering you and that is important to you because when your back goes out, you're unable to live your life. And maybe you're someone who has knee pain and is slowly and gradually limiting your mobility. You're taking the elevator, you're avoiding long walks with your friends, you're taking more Advil and you haven't yet registered that discomfort.[00:13:26] I encourage you to register what your body is telling you, and then, what is the context? What is that limitation in mobility or in comfort? How is that limitation in your mobility and comfort affecting your everyday life? [00:13:38] Step three: What is the relationship between your physicality and your mental health? Is exerci…

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    Dr. Lisa Damour on The Emotional Lives of Teenagers Mar 27, 2023
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    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!If you are a parent searching for answers — or a teenager yearning for tools to understand yourself better — look no further!Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author, podcast host, clinical psychologist, mother, and all-around brilliant human. Her new book, The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: Raising Connected, Capable, and Compassionate Adolescents, is an essential guide for parents and teens looking to make sense of their emotional distress, complicated feelings, and current climate of fear and anxiety. Lisa sits down with Dr. McBride to discuss the recent CDC data on teen mental health and common misconceptions about anxiety, distress tolerance, and how parents can help their teens cope with the ups and downs of adolescence. Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast or at https://lucymcbride.Substack.com/listen.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here! Dr. McBride: Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is Beyond the Prescription, the show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight. We are the integrated sum of complex parts.[00:00:32] Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story, to find out if are they okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.com and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.[00:00:56] So let's get into it and go beyond the prescription. [00:01:03] Today on the podcast, I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Lisa Damour. Lisa is a New York Times bestselling author, Podcast host, clinical psychologist, and Mother. Lisa's latest book was published earlier this year. It's titled The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: raising, connected, capable, and Compassionate Adolescents. This book is an invaluable guide for parents and teens to help them make sense of their complicated feelings and how to navigate emotional distress.[00:01:35] Lisa is a wonderful resource in this current climate of anxiety, fear, and uncertainty, and I'm thrilled for her to join me today. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Lisa: Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here. Dr. McBride: There's so much I wanna talk to you about. I wanna start with the word anxiety.[00:01:55] It is a word that is thrown around a lot. It's a word that we need to have in the vocabulary of our lives because. As I say to patients all the time, anxiety is part of the human condition. If you didn't have anxiety, you would walk into traffic. You wouldn't turn your term paper in on time. You would not run from danger.[00:02:18] But anxiety is such a commonly used word that I think it almost gets watered down, if you will, or it's such a commonly used word. It gets misunderstood. And what I love about your work, Lisa, is that you’re helping shed more light on what the word means. You're helping people normalize anxiety, not to be afraid of it.[00:02:38] And so I'd love to ask you first. Tell me about the anatomy of anxiety and talk to me about what it actually means. Lisa: So this is a tricky one because there's not a lot of places where the vernacular term for an emotion is also the same one we use for the diagnosis. And I think anxiety gets hard in that way, right?[00:02:55] For depression, we have sadness and depression, and we can make those distinctions more cleanly, even though of course people do use the term depression in a fairly elastic way. We do actually talk about healthy anxiety using the same term that we could use to talk about unhealthy anxiety. But even there, that's where you see that psychologists make the distinction that both are real, both healthy and unhealthy anxiety.[00:03:18] So in the simplest terms, what we think about with healthy anxiety is that it is exactly as you described it in A Gift from Evolution. It is our internal threat system. It alerts us when something's not right. In my second commercial book I—which was called Under Pressure: confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety In Girls—a huge amount of that book is about helping make these distinctions and helping parents and their daughters understand how this works.[00:03:45] But healthy anxiety is a huge part of being a safe person in the world. We only consider anxiety to become unhealthy or to warrant a diagnosis under two conditions. One is if the anxiety is present and nothing's wrong, that to the degree that it's a threat alert system, it should only be alerting us when there are actual threats.[00:04:07] So we become concerned if a person is feeling an ongoing sense of anxiety, but there's nothing for them to be frightened of. The other time that anxiety arrives or kind of crosses the threshold into a diagnostic category is if the anxiety is way out of proportion to what's wrong. So, if a kid has a term paper that's due and is late on it, they should feel some anxiety that is actually valuable to them, that will motivate them to turn the paper in or get it done.[00:04:36] If they're having a panic attack over that, that's too big, it won't be productive to them. It won't be useful. And so some of our work in caring for people who suffer from anxiety is not actually trying to rid them of the anxiety. It's actually trying to get the anxiety to arrive in proportion to the threat.Dr. McBride: [00:04:55] It's such a good way of describing it. What I've learned over time and what I try to convey to my patients is that it's really about, as you said, trying to calibrate your level of vigilance to the moment, and that is, that's really lifelong work for most people. They don't always recognize it. I think that like what I see in my office is the physical manifestations of anxiety, particularly on the heels of the three year collective trauma we've been through; the cognitive distortions that arise when people are experiencing anxiety; and then the natural human instinct to try to numb this uncomfortable feeling. And so where I can be most useful and, I would imagine this is the case for you in your clinic, is sort of normalizing for people the anxiety.[00:05:47] If you did not have an emotional experience of anxiety, vigilance, fear during the pandemic, for example, I'd kind of wonder what was wrong with you. Like if you were just kinda like- oh, this would be unusual, a virus, whatever. It's a virus. People are dying unexpectedly, and we're closing schools and rearranging our entire lives.[00:06:12] And so I think as you so elegantly say, and describing your book, Lisa, the mere normalization of anxiety is helpful and, one of the reasons I think is because people get so anxious that they're anxious. Again, as a recovering, anxious person myself, I've learned that anxiety can be a signal, oh, there's something going on and maybe I need to recalibrate this feeling versus letting it take over my thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and then all of a sudden I am in the backseat of the car riding the speed bump.Lisa: [00:06:48] Yeah, I mean I think one of the things that we're up against right now in the culture is there's some confusion about what actually constitutes mental health. And that's part of why I wrote this book. So often being mentally healthy is equated with being calm or relaxed or at ease or happy. [00:07:08] And you know what we know as psychologists is that that doesn't really enter into our assessment of mental health. Like we want people to feel those things. Like we're not against those things, but in assessing mental health, what we're assessing is whether the emotions people are having map onto the circumstances they're in.[00:07:24] So we would fully expect to see a lot of stress and anxiety in the context of a global pandemic. We would expect to see deep sadness if the family pet dies. We would expect to see, you know, real anger if someone is badly treated. And I think, so much of my work right now is trying to actually bring psychological distress back into the fold to help across a wide range of emotions.[00:07:46] Parents and adults and kids understand that it's usually a sign of mental health, not the opposite, but what we're confronting right now, and especially as my work centers on adolescents, are a lot of headlines that are rolling up psychological distress with mental health concern and that. At minimum they are inaccurate and in terms of impact, pretty alarming for people because, especially with my focus on teenagers, distress is part of most teenagers most days.[00:08:20] And, and most of the time it's actually evidence that they work perfectly, not grounds for concern. Dr. McBride: I think you're so right. I worry too about these headlines, like the recent CDC study showing. The enormity of distress among adolescents, particularly among adolescent girls, and I know that's a particular focus for you.[00:08:38] The headlines alone generate anxiety, and I think we have conflated normal distress with mental health on the fritz. When they're related, but they're distinct. And I think this is gonna be my favorite question of the week to anybody, because I'm asking Lisa Damour to define what is mental health? Lisa: [00:09:02] I will define it and then we're gonna come back to that CDC study because there were a lot of challenges and how that was reported. So mental health is two things. The first is having feelings that fit the circumstance. Even if those feelings are painful, unwanted, distressing, they are often evidence of mental health.[00:09:18] The second, and this is for us, you know, a psychologist, where the rubber really hits the road, is managing those feelings effectively. So picture, you know, an adult who gets the news that they are about to be laid off, we would expect to see significant distress. That would be very strange if they cared about their job We would expect to see significant distress and the absence of it would be very odd. Now, where the rubber hits the road is, what do they do with that feeling? Do they reach out to people who love them and talk about it? Do they start looking for a job? Do they take extra good care of themselves and do comforting things when they get home?[00:09:51] Do they take their mind off of it a little bit by watching their favorite show? All of that is the picture of mental health, even as the person is feeling distressed and working their way through the distress. Or, do they come home and start drinking heavily? Do they come home and go after the people in the house, kind of if I'm miserable, we're all gonna be miserable, or do they turn their frustration against themselves? I'm so lousy. I'm so inadequate. What's wrong with me that I was on the list to be laid off and then find themselves moving into a really dark place. That's the divide, right? The presence or absence of distress on its own tells us almost nothing.[00:10:28] What really is informative is the capacity and the strategy that the person who's experiencing the distress brings to the table for managing it. Dr. McBride: You said it. I want to make a t-shirt or a billboard because as someone who considers, like you do, mental health, the most sacred element of our health, it is ground zero for our health and humanity.[00:10:57] I think it's really important for people to understand that A) we all have mental health. It's not a feature of the human condition that you can opt out of like a feature on your alarm system. You have it, which means that you will experience joy. You'll experience pleasure, you'll experience pain, you'll suffer.[00:11:14] You will have uncomfortable feelings and emotions, and there's a rainbow of emotions that we experience. The goal of health in my mind isn't to be happy all the time, isn't to be calm all the time. Wouldn't that be nice? Those are great goals, but rather, the goal is to tolerate the inevitable distress that is part of the human condition and to give yourself permission to have those feelings. [00:11:38] And to reflect on how they live in your body and how they manifest out in the world. And if we can tolerate distress because life is distressing, being human is distressing, that's really the ticket to health. Everything else is just gravy. Lisa: It's true, and, and it's interesting. I've been thinking a lot about the term distress tolerance because certainly I'm, you know, out and about with this book and talking about this book, really trying to encourage people who are around teenagers to have a pretty high tolerance for adolescent distress, to help teenagers build a tolerance for their own distress.[00:12:18] As I unpack it more and more, what I think about is, okay, well why, why do we need distress tolerance, right? And, and what do we mean when we say it? So in the, why do we need category, here's why we need distress tolerance—First, feelings are fundamentally informational. Our emotions tell us all sorts of things about how our life is going.[00:12:34] They are our navigational system. So I actually, I wouldn't want to be calm all the time because what it means is that I'm missing a lot of data. The things that make me anxious, the things that make me frustrated—those are telling me information that I need to be acquiring. Second, distress is often growth giving. [00:12:52] It's in the things that are painful or hard that we find our depths, we expand our capacity for what we can be empathic towards. We deepen our knowledge of ourselves. And then, fundamentally, distress is often how we connect with one another. That we can have very profound interactions with people when we're happy.[00:13:13] But I think some of the most close and intimate interactions that happen between people is when someone is suffering and someone is there for them. So it becomes a huge part of the fabric of being in community with people. So this is like if we have to make a case for why we tolerate distress, I think part of how we make that case is to truly articulate the value, within limits of unwanted or unpleasant emotions. But then the thing about the term distress tolerance—I feel like we should have like a one-two. Tolerance and processing. Like we want the distress tolerance and processing, because sometimes I wonder when I'm out on the stomp saying like, we have to help kids tolerate distress and I'm making the case for it.[00:13:57] I wonder if part of what is heard is. Your kid's gonna sit there in pain and you just gotta watch. And no one wants that. I don't want that for my kids. You don't want that for your kids. So I think that so much of what we then need to pivot towards once we've made the case that first we're gonna welcome distress in, right?[00:14:12] We're gonna welcome it in. It's important to our lives. Then we have to make the case for how we live with it if we have to or help it find its way out again. So that's where emotion regulation, a very boring term, but a very important idea comes in. And the last two of the five chapters of…

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    Dr. Suzanne Koven on Why Storytelling Matters in Medicine Mar 20, 2023
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    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!Our stories live in our bodies. No one knows this better than Dr. Suzanne Koven, a master storyteller and primary care doctor at Harvard Medical School. In caring for patients for 30 years, Dr. Koven learned that patients are more than a set of organs. “There is nothing that I can think of, there is no kind of testing, there is no sort of physiology or pharmacology that is more essential to clinical skill than the ability to elicit, interpret and communicate someone else’s story.”It turns out that Dr. Koven has a story, too. Despite her accomplishments and accolades, as a young woman Dr. Koven felt like an imposter—a surprisingly common sentiment for career-oriented females. Her memoir, Letter to a Young Female Physician, is a series of personal essays that reveals the importance of identifying negative self-talk. The book is a must-read for women physicians and for anyone experiencing self-doubt. It’s also part of the reason she became the inaugural writer-in-residence at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, helping other physicians explore the art of listening, writing, and authoring our own narratives.On this episode of Beyond the Prescription, Dr. Koven discusses with Dr. McBride how her own process of self-discovery improved her own health. Her humility and humor are just what the doctor ordered.Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast or at https://lucymcbride.Substack.com/listen. Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The transcript of our conversation is here!Dr. McBride: Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription." The show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight. That we are [00:00:30] the integrated sum of complex parts. Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story, to find out, are they okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.com/newsletter and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, let's get into it and go beyond the [00:01:00] prescription. Today's guest is the kind of doctor I aspired to be when I was a young girl. She's someone I actually wish I had known along my arduous journey in medicine because she's a real healer and I could have used her. Suzanne is a primary care doctor. She's been practicing at Harvard Medical School and at the Mass General Hospital for over 30 years. She's now doing really important work as the inaugural writer in residence at the Mass General Hospital, as an essayist, [00:01:30] writer, and someone who conducts workshops and panels, talking about narrative and storytelling in medicine, women's health, and mental healthcare. Her essay collection was published in 2021. It's called "Letter to a Young Female Physician." I think many of us look back at our younger selves and think we have some pearls of wisdom, some advice, and that's what Suzanne is doing now for us, for me today. Suzanne, I needed you back when I was a [00:02:00] young pup struggling to find my way in medical school and residency. It was hard as a woman, as a pregnant person, and as a person who struggled herself with perfectionism and imposter syndrome. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for joining me. Suzanne: And I'm thrilled to be here, Lucy. I needed me when I was young too. Dr. McBride: Tell me about that. What was it about your youth that made you need someone like you are today? Suzanne: Well, [00:02:30] when I wrote the New England Journal essay "Letter to a Young Female Physician" that became the title essay of my book, what I did was the essay is framed in the form of a letter to my younger self, my younger self as an intern 30 years earlier. And I had a couple of things I wanted to say to that person, which I didn't realize until later were actually quite related. But the first was that 30 years later [00:03:00] there would still be sexism, misogyny, and lack of gender equity in medicine to an appalling extent. And the second thing, perhaps more personal, was that I had spent decades, really starting in high school, perhaps even earlier, very much accelerating in medical school and residency thinking that I was a fraud, suffering from what has been called imposter syndrome. Though I didn't know that term [00:03:30] early on. And I wish that my current self could tell that self, that in fact, I was not an imposter at all. And one of the great pleasures of zooming around the country and abroad and talking to young women in medicine and some not in medicine, has been bringing that message to them now. So, I couldn't do it for myself, but it's very gratifying to be able to do it for others [00:04:00] now. Dr. McBride: Imposter syndrome is so common, particularly in women, not just in medicine. Can you break it down? Describe it to me. How do you define imposter syndrome? Suzanne: So, imposter phenomenon, as it was originally called when it was described by psychologists in the '70s, is a feeling of internal phoniness, or it was called intellectual phoniness. And it was originally described as occurring most [00:04:30] often in "high-achieving women." I think we all know that it's really part of the human condition. Everybody has it to some extent. The way it looks, I think, for women, particularly say, professional women, is this, you are sitting in the conference room, you're sitting in the auditorium, you're standing around the bedside, and you're thinking, "I'm the one here who doesn't belong." It's like the old Sesame [00:05:00] Street song. "One of these things is not like the others." You think, "Well, maybe my classmates, maybe my residency mates, you know, say that they're struggling, that they're overwhelmed, but they're not really overwhelmed or they're kind of normal overwhelmed. Me, I'm different. I am an utter fraud, and it will only be a matter of time before I'm found out." In fact, I remember as a young attending [00:05:30] when I was teaching on the wards thinking, "Well, thank goodness these rotations are only a month long." Because if I stayed 31 or 32 days, they'd realize I actually didn't know anything. I'd have gone through my entire repertoire of knowledge and then, you know, forget it. I'd never make it to day 35. And there's another aspect to imposter syndrome too. It's this false belief that [00:06:00] if only I get some form of external validation, if I get into that Ivy League school, if I get that plumb residency, if I marry that particular person, if I get this promotion, if I get this prize, if I lose this weight, if I get this income, then this feeling will go away. It doesn't work because it's always a matter of applying an external fix [00:06:30] to an internal problem. And in fact, the prizes, the brass rings, if I may, mix metaphors only kind of throw gas on the fire because the higher you rise, the more of an imposter you feel. I don't think I was ever more impostery than when I was chosen to be a chief medical resident at Johns Hopkins. The third female in 100 years, the only woman who had ever been married or had a child [00:07:00.518] and held that position. And I spent the entire year thinking, "Well, today's the day," and the day never came. Dr. McBride: It's incredible, Suzanne, to think that you as this incredibly talented, educated, wise person thought, "God, they really blew it by picking me. And they just have no idea what they're gonna get." Suzanne: Well, right, as I say in the book, when I was in medical school, the term [00:07:30] imposter phenomenon had already been coined, but I had never heard of it. What my best friend and I did call ourselves was the asterisks. As in we got into Johns Hopkins Medical School asterisk. There must not have been many applicants that year. And that I should mention is another feature of imposter syndrome. This sort of, yes, but... I got in, but there weren't that many applicants. I got this prize, but you know, I snowed them at the interview. I should [00:08:00] also mention about, you know, that year as chief resident because I think this is sort of, you know, resonant across the board. It is true that the day never came that anybody thought I was a fraud. The day also never came that anyone thought I was the most brilliant physician who had ever lived, or that I was perfect. I was neither because no one is either. And I think a real sort of [00:08:30] test, a provocative test that I recommend for people who have imposter syndrome is to ask yourself this. Say, "Okay, you're right. You're an imposter. You win." Now, let's think about what the opposite of this would be. Like, how perfect would you have to be? Would you have to get A's in everything, and have the most amazing CV anybody's ever seen, and have a [00:09:00] model's figure, and a spotless home and brilliant, perfectly behaved children, you know, and dog? Well, you know, the ridiculousness of that becomes apparent very quickly. And you realize that if the way you framed it, which I think is the way we all frame it is, I'm an imposter because I'm not perfect. And then the whole thing breaks down. And [00:09:30] to sort of cut to the punchline, I think what cured me of this affliction, and it took a long time, I don't think...I was in my 50s until I really sort of let go of it. What cured me of this affliction was realizing that the things I valued most in life, the things I was most proud of, my marriage, my parenting, my doctoring, my writing were all incredibly messy, imperfect [00:10:00] processes. And yet, you know, on my worst day as a parent, or a writer, or a wife, or a doctor, I wasn't a fraud. I was just human. I was just having a bad day. I was just not perfect. Dr. McBride: Suzanne, when I was sitting in the auditorium on the very first day at Harvard Medical School, the dean said to the whole audience of first-year medical students, "Raise your hand if you're a firstborn." And I think half the class raised their hand. And then he said, [00:10:30] "Raise your hand if you think you were the admissions' candidate that the committee looked at and said, 'You know what, this person's really not qualified, really not up to the job, but you know what, let's give this person a chance just on a lark.'" And literally, every single person raised their hand. And that's exactly what we're talking about. Suzanne: And we can't all be frauds. Dr. McBride: We can't all be frauds. I mean, it was just really reassuring because I think humility [00:11:00] is an important feature of the human condition. I think humility in medicin e is underrated, but humility at the expense of our emotional health and humility that then bleeds into a sense of unworthiness and that drives perfectionism, which is a futile exercise, right? Because the world isn't perfect. We are not perfect. And what is perfect anyway? And by the way, if you are "perfect," you're gonna be really [00:11:30] annoying and sort of repel other people, like the people who pretend that their whole life is perfect. Like, I don't actually have any desire to be around those people. It's inauthentic. Suzanne: Then you really shouldn't look at Instagram. Dr. McBride: Well, you shouldn't. Yeah, social media certainly doesn't help. And had I been exposed to social media as a youngster with some version of imposter syndrome, it would've been, you know, pretty bad. But what I wonder for you, Suzanne, I wonder what drove your imposter [00:12:00] syndrome. I think for some people it's a family dynamic, like a parent who's undermining or insulting, the parent who's constantly criticizing the young girl's weight, even though they may not even be overweight. I think it can be from the patriarchy, our structure in this country, right? And then I think it can be just an internal sort of ruminative, sort of mental space where people just overthink and they have intrinsic anxiety. What do you think it was for you? Suzanne: Well, I wanna go back [00:12:30] to something you said earlier because this does relate about how everybody has a little imposter syndrome and you know, it's on the spectrum with humility. And humility is a good thing. And the extent to which, feeling like we're not good enough drives us to be better, to learn more, to do better. A little dose of imposter syndrome is a good thing. Decades of self-flagellation, not so good. I think in my case, and in many cases, [00:13:00] and boy, I really learned this from my readers who wrote to me, particularly women of color, women practicing medicine in highly patriarchal countries told me that very often imposter syndrome is a kind of internalized bias. You know, women told me, "Well, sure, I feel like an imposter. I get told I am an imposter all the time." I think in my case, it was a combination of I had wonderful, supportive parents [00:13:30] and I led a very privileged youth with a wonderful education. But I think there were two things going on. One was just I grew up in the '60s and '70s, sort of on the cusp of second-wave feminism. When girls had to wear dresses and itchy tights to school and boys could wear whatever they wanted. And I was the youngest of three, had two [00:14:00] older brothers. And the message I got, I don't think specifically from my parents, but just from the sort of the ambient environment, was that my prospects were in some way more limited or if I chose to be ambitious, that I would also have to look good, be thin, have good hair, set [00:14:30] a nice table, and accommodate men. My mother went to law school as a 43-year-old woman in 1970, having been a housewife her whole adult life, that was pretty progressive. My father supported her in this endeavor, that was pretty progressive. Yet did she ever miss a beauty parlor appointment? She did not. Did she still set a beautiful table? She did. [00:15:00] Was that really stressful? It was. So, there was that, just ambient sexism for women of color, for members of LGBTQ community, for people with disabilities, that kind of internalized bias is much more extreme. I hear this a lot from our international medical graduates and our international students from our first-gen students who say, "I know [00:15:30] I'm here, but do I really belong here?" And a lot of self-doubt that's coming from the outside in. The other piece of it though has to do with what we were just talking about, about, you know, a little imposter syndrome is a good thing. So, for me, what that looked like was, I think I was a smart kid. I think I was very ambitious, and I think there were times when I, as the corporate cliche goes, [00:16:00] now I got a little ahead of my skis. I wanted to do things that I didn't know quite how to do. I put myself in a position to sometimes fail and embarrass myself. You know, taking an advanced class that I wasn't really prepared for,…

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    A COVID Roundup: Where to Go Now? Mar 13, 2023
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    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!Three years after the World Health Organization declared the COVID-19 pandemic, we have widespread population immunity against the virus. But no one is immune to accumulated fear and uncertainty.On this episode, Dr. McBride talks about where we are now and what to expect with COVID. She discusses various topics including* the transition from pandemic to endemic* rapid antigen versus PCR testing* treatments, including Paxlovid* the recent Cochrane review on masks and mask mandates* vaccines and immunity* what to expect in fall 2023* addressing our pandemic storyFinally, Dr. McBride argues that recovering from the distress of last three years requires understanding our unique risks and risk tolerance—and appropriately reckoning with vulnerability.Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The full transcript of the show is here!Hello, and welcome to my home office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription." Today, it's just you and me. Every other week this season, I'll talk to you like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, peeling back the layers of everyday medical problems I see. In clinical practice for over 20 years, I've found that patients generally want the same things, a framework to evaluate their risks, [00:00:30] access to the truth and the courage to face it, and tools and actionable information to be healthy, mentally and physically. So, whether it's managing weight, cholesterol, cancer, or mental health issues, we all want to feel more in control of our health. Here, I'll talk to you about how to be a little more okay tomorrow than you are today, and how to be healthy from the inside out. Let's go.Today is a little ditty about COVID-19, my friend and foe for the past three years. Something you have probably thought quite a lot about, that has probably occupied a fair amount of real estate in your brain and in your everyday life for the past three years. Let's talk today about where we are now, where we have been, and where we're going with this virus. It's the three-year anniversary of the World Health Organization's declaration of the pandemic. That was on March 11th, 2020, and over the last three years, we have learned so much. We have [00:01:30] learned about the virus, about immunity; we've learned about how to protect the most vulnerable among us.We've also learned about ourselves. We've all had to reckon with grief, loss, uncertainty, and significant vulnerability. So, let's take a minute to talk about COVID itself. We'll talk about symptoms, testing, isolation, the vaccines, boosters, and where we might go from here. Okay. So, first of all, [00:02:00] let's acknowledge, COVID is here in perpetuity. It has now been woven into the fabric of our everyday lives, whether we like it or not. It is endemic. Endemic means hospitals are no longer overwhelmed from COVID-19. It means that the vast majority of people in this country and around the world have some sort of immunity to the virus, either from the vaccine or from past infection, and that we have widely-available vaccines and therapeutics. Endemic does not mean that we are done with COVID-19. [00:02:30] No, no. COVID and COVID risk are something we will have to reckon with here on out.What's happening with the virus right now? Well, the virus is here. In D.C., I'm seeing a couple patients a week with COVID-19. They mostly have typical cold or flu symptoms and are doing generally very well with at-home remedies like Tylenol, Advil, hydration, and rest. Now, some of my patients have been sicker, like patients who are older, who have underlying health conditions, like lung disease, for example. But it's important to note [00:03:00] that they're as sick as they probably would have been with another respiratory virus—one that we have known about since pre-pandemic times. For example, flu, RSV, metapneumovirus, parainfluenza virus. In other words, we have seen these kinds of respiratory viruses since the beginning of time, and COVID, in the vaccine era, has been added to the list of viruses that we will now be susceptible to, and for whom it is particularly potentially dangerous for people who are at higher risk in general.What about Paxlovid? [00:03:30] So, Paxlovid is the oral antiviral medication that is FDA-approved, and appropriate for patients who are at particularly high risk for serious COVID outcomes. Who do I prescribe it to in the spring of 2023? The truth is, not many people, because at this point in the pandemic, most people have had COVID-19. Most patients, at least my patients, have had the vaccine, and that protection, that hybrid immunity, the combination of vaccine-induced and infection-acquired immunity, is marvelously protective against serious COVID outcomes, such that Paxlovid is not really necessary. Paxlovid has some downsides as well. So, when the upsides are minimal, and the downsides are not zero, it's worth a conversation to explain, not to hang our hat on Paxlovid as a panacea, and more importantly, to have confidence in our own immune system, and the marvelously effective vaccines, to protect us when we need it. Do I still prescribe Paxlovid? Absolutely. It's just a nuanced discussion, and one that the headlines really can't capture.So, what about booster shots? Are we going to need a booster [00:04:30] shot every fall, like we need the flu shot? Well, the short answer is we don't know. Right now, public health agencies are predicting that they'll roll out an annual COVID shot like we do the flu shot. And this fall, when we're indoors, in crowded, poorly-ventilated spaces, we might need a booster shot. But that's not based on any particular science. It's based on the emerging evidence that there's a seasonal component to COVID, like there is for so many respiratory viruses. What that projection is not based on is the clear evidence that everyone will absolutely need a booster in the fall. That would not be accurate to project. In fact, right now, in 2023, immunity from the vaccine and from past infection continue to do a marvelous job at protecting us where it counts, preventing severe disease, and mitigating but not blocking transmission.Remember that the vaccine can no longer protect against infection. The current variants, which are Omicron sub-sub-variants, are so highly contagious [00:05:30] that they outskirt the antibodies made by vaccination and from past infection. What that means is that you can get 3, 4, 5, 10 vaccine doses with the current vaccine formulation and still get COVID-19. You're just very unlikely to land in the hospital, and your symptoms will be mitigated if you've had a recent vaccine or recent bout of COVID itself. So, when people talk about waning immunity, that refers only to the antibody levels that inevitably and normally fall over time, three to four months after a shot or after an infection. If our antibody levels did not wane after exposure to a vaccine dose or a virus, our blood would be a thick milkshake full of antibodies. So indeed, those antibody levels go down with time, but our immunity against serious outcomes is lasting. How long will it last? We don't know. But at least for right now, people who have had vaccine doses for their age and underlying health conditions, [00:06:30] and/or who've had COVID itself, are not landing in the hospital from COVID-19 more than they would have from other viruses at this moment.Are people still being hospitalized for COVID and people dying from COVID-19? They are. And these are people who are our most high-risk patients. They are also patients in the hospital who have so many underlying health conditions that COVID tips them over the edge. This has been true since the beginning of time, that viral infections often tip the balance [00:07:00] in an otherwise very fragile patient. This is not to dismiss the loss and ongoing deaths from COVID-19. It's to frame it in the context of other respiratory viruses, so that you can better understand where we are now and where we might be going.What about long COVID? Well, the latest data are very reassuring. It looks like the tail of symptoms from COVID-19 are not a whole lot different from other respiratory viruses. Fatigue, difficulty mounting the appropriate blood pressure response when going from lying to sitting to standing, [00:07:30] tachycardia, exercise intolerance, all of these symptoms can be indeed very debilitating, but it turns out the typical symptoms of long COVID are akin to symptoms of the long tail from other viruses.Are there exceptions? Absolutely. Are some people uniquely susceptible to COVID-19? Yes. Is COVID-19 a virus that can turn on genes that were latent? Absolutely. I talked to a patient today whose child developed type 1 diabetes one [00:08:00] month after recovering from COVID-19. They have no family history of diabetes. What seems clear is that the child developed diabetes as a direct result of the virus. It has long been known that viruses can turn on latent genes, and COVID-19 is no exception. It can turn on autoimmunity. It can tickle someone who has a genetic predisposition to, for example, rheumatoid arthritis. It can mess with our immune system in unusual ways. But the majority of people with COVID-19 make a full recovery, and the tail of symptoms go away with time. There's some interesting emerging evidence that a medication called metformin, which is one of the standards of care for type 2 diabetes, can help with the inflammation of long COVID. There's also some interesting data in the pipeline about Paxlovid, and other protease inhibitors like Paxlovid, that may help with the long tail of COVID-19 symptoms, that might help mitigate the long tail of COVID-19 symptoms.Let's talk about how to protect ourselves from COVID-19 here on out. [00:09:00] Let's start with my favorite/not so favorite subject, masking. Masking has become the most incredible political football I've ever seen. I have gotten myself so entangled in the mask debate that I almost can't talk about it, but I need to, and I want to. Data from the Cochrane Review on masking came out a couple weeks ago. The Cochrane Review is a systematic review and meta-analysis of the evidence on any specific topic, like masking, and it's really considered [00:09:30] the gold standard in evidence-based medicine. So, when the Cochrane Review comes out with a statement, people tend to listen. Here's what they said about masks. "Mask mandates failed to reduce transmission of COVID-19 during the pandemic."I'm just gonna repeat that, for people on the back. Mask mandates have not been shown to reduce the transmission of COVID-19. Let's break that down. Does this mean that masks do not work? It does not. [00:10:00] It means that the public policies that asked people to wear masks in schools and workplaces, on public transportation, did nothing to halt the transmission of COVID-19. Why that is, we could talk about all day long, but the fact of the matter is that mandates have had no meaningful effect, and I will say, because I just can't help myself, that this data has been around since at least 2021. Deep breath. Exhale. So, does this mean that masks [00:10:30] don't work on individuals? It does not. Masks certainly can work on individuals to protect the wearer, but only if the mask is high-grade, well-fitted, and worn consistently. Should you wear a mask in your public transportation, in your conference, at your workplace? At this point, it's really up to you. There's no role for mandates, in my opinion, given the absence of data to show that they worked, and given that this virus is here in perpetuity, and, in my humble opinion, there was [00:11:00] never a role for mask mandates. What I do think is that people should be given the facts and the information about how effective masks can be for the wearer if and when they use them appropriately.I recommend wearing a mask, if you want to, to help reduce the likelihood of getting infected with COVID-19, with the understanding that they aren't that effective. They can help. They are another layer. The setting in which I would definitely wear a mask to protect myself against COVID-19 is, for example, in an ICU room that is teeming with virus, in which I was the medical provider, I would wear a fit-tested N95 mask in that room. But in 2023, with most of us having immunity from the vaccine and from past infection, a mask that is sort of loosely around your face, that you take on and off for eating and drinking, on the airplane or at the restaurant, is really wearing us for protection at this point. I don't shame anyone for wearing a mask. It is up to their unique risk tolerance, [00:12:00] and it is certainly an added layer, albeit weak, to help mitigate the risk. Better than any mask, however, to protect us from getting infected with COVID, or reinfected, is to open doors, open windows, and avoid crowded, indoor, poorly-ventilated spaces.And then I think it's important to zoom out on the conversation about risk. There is a risk of getting COVID-19 wherever we go now, certainly more indoors, and more in crowded spaces. There is also the potential harm of having to live in [00:12:30] fear and to hem in our lives to avoid a respiratory virus against which most of us are already immune. My job as a physician is not to tell people how much risk they want to undertake, how much they should sacrifice to not get a virus. It's my job, rather, to arm people with the facts, tools, and information they need to make appropriate risk decisions based on their preferences, goals, and tolerance for disease.The principle in public health is called harm reduction. Harm reduction is a principle that acknowledges [00:13:00] that risk is everywhere, that we cannot mitigate risk to zero, and that the goal of medicine and public health is to help people mitigate risk without pretending that we can eliminate it. So, what do you do now if you get COVID-19? Should you call your doctor? Should you stay at home? How long should you isolate? Do you test? A lot of my patients are not even calling me and telling me they have COVID. They will tell me at their annual physical, oh yeah, I had COVID a month ago, I tested positive on the rapid test, I stayed at home until I felt better, and then I went back to work. [00:13:30]The rapid tests continue to be an excellent tool. The rapid tests are contagiousness tests. The rapid tests tell you when you have high enough levels of virus in your nose to A, make a diagnosis of COVID, but more importantly, they tell you that you're contagious. When a rapid test is positive, it means you're contagious to other people. When the rapid test is negative, it means you're no longer contagious. The rapid tests tell you when you have enough virus in your nose to infect someone else. How long those COVID-19 rapid home [00:14:00] tests are positive after you have symptoms or test positive is so variable. Some people test positive for one day. Some people test positive for 10 days. What the rapid antigen tests cannot do is they cannot tell you the degree of contagiousness. They can't tell you what is probably true, which is that 10 days out, you're probably less contagious than you are at 3 days, even if you're positive on both of those days. When you should go back to work is really up to yo…

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    Chrysta Bilton on Fertility, Femininity & Uncovering Family Secrets Mar 06, 2023
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    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!Family dynamics are complicated—but what happens when you learn that you have dozens (and possibly hundreds) of siblings? When writer Chrysta Bilton’s mom decided to build a family as a gay woman in the early 80s, she employed a sperm donor. This man also played a role in Chrysta and her sister’s life as “dad.” But he continued to donate to other women—in secret—for almost 10 years. Chrysta learned this shocking truth from an article in the New York Times. On this episode, Chrysta joins Dr. McBride to discuss family secrets, shame, her unconventional coming-of-age story, and how all of this affected her mental and physical health. Chrysta’s critically acclaimed memoir “Normal Family: On Truth, Love, and How I Met My 35 Siblings,” is available now.Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast.Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcomePlease be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!The transcript of our conversation is here!Dr. McBride: My family is everything to me. I think a lot about how they're like me and they're not like me. And there are many ways they're not like me, that they're so lucky not to be like me. And there are things that I've inherited from my parents that I'm grateful for, and there are things that I would maybe tweak a little bit. But I think all of us need to recognize how much we have in our genetic profile that we take for granted sometimes, and then [00:00:30] how much we're capable of change even though we may think we're just genetically programmed to be, you know, forgetful or not ask for directions when we're lost. I guess my point is it's good to reflect on where we came from, it's good to reflect on where we're going, and it's good to kind of sketch out in our minds where we fit in our family dynamic because that informs a lot of our daily health habits, the way we think, the way we feel. And today's guest is [00:01:00] such an important example of someone who's reflected deeply on what it means to be part of a family that became a lot bigger than she ever knew. Hello, and welcome to my office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription," the show where I talk with my guests like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, redefining health as more than the absence of disease. [00:01:30] As a primary care doctor for over 20 years, I've realized that patients are much more than their cholesterol and their weight, that we are the integrated sum of complex parts. Our stories live in our bodies. I'm here to help people tell their story, to find out are they okay, and for you to imagine and potentially get healthier from the inside out. You can subscribe to my weekly newsletter at lucymcbride.substack.com [00:02:00] and to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, let's get into it and go beyond the prescription. What defines a family? What are the ingredients for healthy family relationships? What happens to us mentally and physically when family secrets are kept, and then when they are revealed? These are some of the important questions Chrysta Bilton explores in her critically acclaimed memoir, "Normal Family: [00:02:30] On Truth, Love, and How I met My 35 Siblings." In it, Chrysta describes how she learned that she has dozens, if not hundreds of siblings, the offspring of sperm donor Number 150 from the California Cryobank, and how she has reckoned with her past to better understand herself, what is nature, what is nurture, and how she cares for her mental and physical health. Chrysta, thank you so much for joining me today. Chrysta: Thank you so much for having me. I really admire [00:03:00] what you're doing with this podcast. I'm so grateful to be here. Dr. McBride: I appreciate that. And I wanna start with your mother who sounds like a real character. I mean, I kind of loved her from the minute I learned about who she was. She was a lesbian in the early '80s, desperate to have a family when a lot of sperm banks wouldn't even let gay women participate. So, tell me what she did. Chrysta: Yeah. They wouldn't allow gay women or single women for that matter. So, it was a different time. I think we forget how [00:03:30] far we've come, at least in certain parts of the country, in terms of homophobia. But in the '70s and '80s, even '50s and '60s, when my mom was growing up, everyone was closeted at that time. When she decided she wanted to have a family in her 30s after getting sober from drug addiction and, you know, dealing with a whole host of other stuff from her chaotic upbringing, what she wanted more than anything was to have this family. But she didn't know a single gay person who had had kids. You know, she knew women who were in marriages who were maybe on the side exploring their sexuality, [00:04:00] but she didn't know a single person who had set out to do this out in the open. And, you know, I describe a comical journey that she has to trying to find a father or, you know, a sperm donor for her kid. She starts with this place called the Repository of Germaninal Choice, which in the early '80s was this...basically this traveling salesman type man with a briefcase who she'd read about in the "LA Times" or "The New York Times" who'd come to your home with a binder filled with what he called, like, Nobel laureate sperm donors. And you'd flip through these [00:04:30] anonymous men with no pictures and she picked a mathematics prodigy. And that was gonna be my sperm donor. And she tried to get pregnant and she didn't. And then she got spooked and hired a PI to get a photo of this would-be mathematics prodigy. And this very unattractive professor photo came back and she was like, "You know what? I need to know the father of my kids and I want him to be good-looking." These were her criteria for what she wanted. So, she went on this manhunt and my very handsome model, musician, actor, [00:05:00] man who would become my father walked into a hair salon in Beverly Hills and she was like, "That's it. That's the one." And she took this man to lunch and paid him $2,000 to give her sperm. And I refer to him as my dad, not a sperm donor because after that initial transaction, my mother realized that, you know, she was filled with shame about going about having a family in this different way. And she felt like maybe she was depriving me of something by not giving me a dad. So, she then paid this [00:05:30] man to play a role in my life and I knew him as dad. Dr. McBride: And he promised her at that time that he wouldn't donate sperm to anybody else, that you and your sister Kaitlyn would be the only offspring, yet he was making a living off of donating his sperm. Tell me about the moment that your mom learned about him not keeping that promise. Chrysta: Shortly after the hair salon transaction, she made him swear he would never do this for anyone else. And at the the time, he was just like, "Of course," because it's not like [00:06:00] women were coming up to him at hair salons on a daily basis and, you know, lesbian women asking him to father a child. But then it became more apparent why she was so adamant about this because shortly after that she took him to the California Cryobank, which was just starting at this time, to be tested for STDs and to test his sperm count. And he saw a bunch of men walking in and out of donation rooms and he was like, "Oh, now I understand. It's because she was gonna bring me here and she knew I'd get ideas." And he did. So, while he was [00:06:30] playing dad to us, he then donated to the California Cryobank for almost 10 years, 3 times a week. I think he was one of their most prolific sperm donors. And we did not learn about this until I was in my 20s. And through a wild series of events that I document in the book, my mother discovered it from a front-page story in "The New York Times" featuring my dad with his arm around one of these half-biological siblings. And it was a big story at the time because he was [00:07:00] one of the first anonymous sperm donors to "come out" and welcome all of his biological children to come meet him. So, yeah, that started a real nervous breakdown for my mother who, I think, already had a lot of shame around our family that was so different to the other families around us. But this was too different, I think, in her mind. Dr. McBride: And how long was it between that 2005 New York Times article where his story was revealed and you finding out that this man who is your father and not really always present in your [00:07:30] life but part of your life had fathered these other children? Chrysta: So, my mother decided that she would never tell us this story. And by the way, after "The New York Times" story, like, this was a huge story. Suddenly, you know, "60 Minutes" was calling to have my dad come on, and lots of newspapers were coming to interview him. There was a documentary film crew from Canada who were gonna document the story. So, I don't know how my mom thought she could keep this from us forever, but she did. And the only reason she finally sat down with me and my little sister to tell [00:08:00] us was because, again, through just a bizarre series of events, it turned out that I was most likely dating my half-brother, which I guess is, you know, what happens when sperm donation is that unregulated. That's the fear. It just happened to happen in my actual life. Dr. McBride: And so, that brought the conversation to a head. You had to know and she told you. Chrysta: That's right. Yeah. And that was a lot to unpack because she had never told me that she'd paid my father to have me. I was told that they were best friends who had had a kid [00:08:30] together, and she'd also never told me that he'd been financially incentivized to play the role of dad. So, even though she didn't say all that in that initial conversation about the siblings, it just alerted me to the fact, which I already in my gut knew that there was just so much more to the story of my conception and upbringing than my mother had told me. So, yeah, the book is a bit of a mystery because it's tracking me as I unpack what the real story was, if that makes sense. Dr. McBride: And so, what do you think holding [00:09:00] that secret in your mom's body and mind did to her? I mean, how did that affect her everyday life? Chrysta: You know, my mother was someone who had a lot of secrets, which of course stemmed from having a lot of shame. And beyond just the secret of my conception and the true nature of my mother and father's relationship, it turned out that there were quite a few really big life events that I didn't know about my mother. Like, I didn't know about her traumatic childhood, I didn't know about a couple really [00:09:30] heavy things that she had gone through. Shame is just such a powerful emotion. I think that's a big theme in my book, shame, because I inherited a lot of shame from my mom. You know, she was ashamed of being gay. I was ashamed of having a mother who was gay. She was ashamed of...you know, there was some suicide and some other really heavy stuff in her family history and alcoholism, and she was ashamed of all that. So, you know, the problem with keeping secrets is then you can't really be close to people because you're presenting a false self and you're not really your whole self. Yeah, [00:10:00] the book is sort of me mirroring that journey to being false. And then ultimately I wrote a book about it, so I guess it's all out in the open now. But yeah, I don't know, shame and secrets, it's a topic that I'm very interested in. Dr. McBride: Yeah. And I think shame is an almost universal experience that we all have and it does so much damage. And I think it propagates this notion that we need to keep things under the vest and we need to keep secrets. But the secrets perpetuate the shame and the shame perpetuates the secrets. And so, the treatment, if you will, is coming [00:10:30] clean and being honest about who we really are and showing up as ourselves and daring to be vulnerable, which isn't easy if you've experienced trauma in your life as it sounds like your mom did as a youngster. Chrysta: Yeah, that's absolutely right. You know, there's another piece of it too. So, the shame perpetuates the secrets and the secrets perpetuate the shame, but then also close you off to other people that you can only heal through those relationships, and I think through revealing those parts of yourself and then being loved in return, which, of course, you have to then have [00:11:00] healthy relationships to find that. I feel like people who have a lot of secrets and shame also sometimes seek out more unhealthy connection. Dr. McBride: So, you're a parent, Chrysta. I think sometimes as parents we struggle about what we should reveal to our kids about our past, our own struggles. I mean, I think some parents think that we should just cover that up and not talk about how hard things were because we don't wanna give our kids ideas, like telling your child that you smoked as an adolescent might give them an idea that they could smoke. When actually I think being honest and open with our [00:11:30] kids helps them feel less alone and helps them feel less shame because they too have ups and downs and struggles. And I wonder how the secret keeping in your family when you were being raised, how that affected your mom's parenting. Like, if you look back on how you were parented, can you see the traces of the secrets being held? Chrysta: Absolutely. I mean, there was so much going on beyond just the shame and the secrets. My mom also struggled with probably a mood disorder [00:12:00] and also severe drug and alcohol addiction. And so, even if I didn't know what was going on, it was clear that I was a parent to my mother from a very early age. And even if she said she wasn't drinking, it was still clear that things were insane. I just didn't understand the cause. So, I guess that's out of the bubble of just speaking about the shame and the secrets. But I definitely think that it was only as an adult and understanding both of my parents, like, their full story and biography, that I was able to [00:12:30] get over a lot of the resentment I had about some of the more dysfunctional ways that I was raised, and also find it's not as much forgiveness but just, like, so much compassion for both of them. Because I think when you understand people's stories, you just can't help but have compassion because everyone's been through things that shape them in some way. Dr. McBride: When your mom told you about the sperm bank donor at 150, what was your initial reaction? Anger, resentment, confusion? I mean, what went through your mind? Chrysta: You said earlier, you had said... What [00:13:00] I loved about the book is that, you know, I cried, I laughed and I was like, I think those were my two emotions. I didn't know if I should be completely overwhelmed and start hysterically crying or if I should burst into tears of laughter because it felt like growing up me and my little sister had been through so much. You know, my mom was involved in many pyramid schemes, so life was very boom or bust. We were on the verge of homelessness multiple times. S…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    What Are You Feeding Your Brain? Feb 27, 2023
    Show notes

    You can also check out this episode on Spotify!

    Screens have become a necessity of modern life. Whether we like it or not, they inform how we work, play, parent, and relate to other people.

    Technology is a wonderful thing. But too much screen time can negatively affect our health. From sleeplessness and agitation to addiction and social isolation, our relationship with tech directly affects our body and mind.

    On this episode, Dr. McBride expands on her concept of the Four “I”s. She discusses how to think about screens like we do other “inputs.” Whether it’s alcohol and sugar or Instagram and TikTok, the question isn’t just How much? It’s What is my relationship with the thing I’m consuming?

    Maintaining digital hygiene takes work. A healthy relationship with technology requires the same self-awareness that we should apply to everything we feed our eyeballs and brains.

    Join Dr. McBride every Monday for a new episode of Beyond the Prescription. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at lucymcbride.com/podcast.

    Get full access to her free weekly Are You Okay? newsletter at https://lucymcbride.substack.com/welcome

    Please be sure to like, rate, review — and enjoy — the show!

    The transcript of the episode is here!

    Dr. Lucy McBride: Hello, and welcome to my home office. I'm Dr. Lucy McBride, and this is "Beyond the Prescription." Today, it's just you and me. Every other week this season, I'll talk to you like I do my patients, pulling the curtain back on what it means to be healthy, peeling back the layers of everyday medical problems I see. In clinical practice for over 20 years, I've found that patients generally want the same things, a framework to [00:00:30] evaluate their risks, access to the truth and the courage to face it, and tools and actionable information to be healthy mentally and physically. So whether it's managing weight, cholesterol, cancer, or mental health issues, we all want to feel more in control of our health. Here, I'll talk to you about how to be a little more okay tomorrow than you are today, and how to be healthy from the inside out. Let's go.

    You may recall from a couple of weeks back, I spoke to you [00:01:00] about this concept of the Four I's. The Four I's is a visual representation of how I conceptualize health. Basically, as the integrated sum of different components, health is not just about our cholesterol or our blood pressure, it's about the intersection of our information, our inputs, our infrastructure, and our insight. Today we're gonna focus on inputs. One of the most important inputs into our ecosystem in addition to food, [00:01:30] water, and other substances, one of which is screen time. I don't need to tell you that our screens have become fastened to our persons, and that screen time has become more than just a passing fancy.

    If you will, let's consider for a minute that the way we consume screens is not unlike the way we consume food. Put another way, we cannot survive without food, right? We have to eat to survive. We have to eat for focus, attention, and for our [00:02:00] basic survival, right? You cannot put food on a shelf and live without it. Similarly, in the modern era, it's pretty difficult not to use screens. It's pretty impossible not to look at television, a computer screen, or a smartphone during the course of your regular day. So you might fast for a religious experience, you might take a screen vacation for a weekend. But in general, we need food, we need screens to operate in the modern world.

    So when I'm talking [00:02:30] to a patient about their health and we're talking about their sleep and their exercise and their nutrition, their medicines, their everyday habits, and how those things connect to their blood pressure and their vital signs and their laboratory results, I often ask people about their screen time, just like I ask people about their ingestion of sweets or carbohydrates, particularly if they have diabetes, and we're trying to kind of moderate their consumption. The way I think about screen time is again, like I think about food. It's something [00:03:00] we have to moderate, and therefore we have to think about not only how much we consume, but what is our relationship to it.

    Okay, so let's talk about screens in more detail. Why do I care about screen time, to begin with? Well, because patients come in every day remarking or complaining about things like insomnia, stress, work-life balance, the challenges of caring for children, elderly parents, getting enough sleep, making time for exercise, doing the job of being human [00:03:30] in the modern world. And so, when I'm trying to help patients find more agency in their lives, carve out little bits of time to breathe, appreciate nature, take a rest, take a load off, if you really drill down into what people are doing with their time, there's a lot of screen time that patients would really like to consume less of, and that for their health would be better to moderate.

    So I think the first thing about screen time is to think about how much we're on our screens. [00:04:00] Number two, what are we consuming? And number three, what are the emotions and thoughts that go into the usage? And what are the emotions and thoughts and behaviors, the result from being on screens more than you'd like? What do I mean? Two hours of screen time that is spent connecting with high school friends, doing grocery shopping, laughing at memes that provide brain rest relative to your hectic day is probably a total value add in your day-to-day life. But two [00:04:30] hours on screens where you're doom scrolling, avoiding an uncomfortable conversation with your spouse, staying up too late, and avoiding going to bed because you don't wanna get up and do it all over again, whatever your day might look like the next day, that is probably two hours that is a net drain on your psyche and a net drain on your body as well.

    Just to give you a really clear example, I for one stay up way too late. That's my natural instinct is to stay up late and to sleep late. I'm just a night person, so I have to fight the instinct to be up late [00:05:00] on screens. I will convince myself that I am happier in giving myself a break by staying up late and looking at Instagram, looking at Twitter, scrolling around on various articles, and then I'll look at my clock and it's 12:30 a.m. or 1:00 a.m. and I'm really annoyed at myself, and I continue to be surprised at how annoyed I am with myself despite the knowledge of how much better I would feel if I had gone to bed an hour or two hours earlier and woken up with a fresh mind.

    I'm not saying that screens are evil. I'm not saying that we don't [00:05:30] use them for pleasure and joy and connection with other people. I'm saying that we need to zoom out on how we are using screens and to be honest with ourselves about what they're doing and not doing for us, and to just insert consciousness into this inevitable input into our everyday lives. What we feed our eyeballs and our brains really matters in terms of how much time we're spending on screens. The opportunity costs of simply not going to bed at a decent time to then not wake up feeling refreshed or not going to the gym [00:06:00] to then guzzle down more coffee than you normally would, to then be more irritable during the daytime, to then eat more haphazardly. This is the mundane of being human.

    Health, in my opinion, happens in these mundane moments where we have had too much coffee, we snap at our child and we wish we didn't, and we feel remorseful, and then we get into bed and go on our screens and do it all over again. So again, as I've talked about over and over, health is really about that insight into our everyday behaviors and our [00:06:30] awareness of how we do things that do not serve us. And then the ability to be honest with ourselves and to course correct as able. Am I going to go to bed tonight without my phone in my hand? Maybe, maybe not, but do I try to be more conscious about how I consume screens? I do, and I fail at it all the time because it's an occupational hazard of being human to want to numb out, zone out looking at images and things that people have written online.

    But I wanted to say just like [00:07:00] we think about food as something we need to survive as something we enjoy, and that is a way to connect with other people, we also need to be aware of all of the inputs we put into our bodies. What are the feelings and thoughts that drive you to have a relationship with food that is more than simply about hunger and satiety? And then how do you feel when you've restricted calories during the day? How do you feel when you've not experienced satiety during the day? Similarly, how is your focus, your attention, and your energy when you've had a nice, [00:07:30] proper meal? Is your sleep better? Is your anxiety better? Is your focus better? Is your sense of calm, peace, and self-satisfaction better? And if the answer is yes, then the solution to irritability may not be quitting your job, it may be simply having lunch.

    Similarly, when we're thinking about screen time, we wanna be conscious of the emotional inputs and outputs of the usage because as you and I both know, being on screens is the path of least resistance for human beings right now. [00:08:00] The other thing I'll say, this is just to state the obvious, but as a mother, it's hard not to notice that our kids are picking up on everything we do, whether we like it or not. And I'm not suggesting that our kids' flaws are a direct product of us and that we are to blame for all of their problems and that we are to credit for all of their successes. This is to say that our kids are watching us and how we relate to screens, they just are. They hear us say to them, "Honey, you really need to put your phone down. [00:08:30] It's time to get outside and play with your friends." Or "Sweetie, let's give the video games a break, time to go do your homework." They see us say that and then go and sit with a glass of wine and scroll through Instagram for a half an hour. They see that. It's not to say that we shouldn't do it, it's to say that we need to have an added level of consciousness in our homes about the things we say and the things we do and how they might not always match up. So I'm not saying that we should strive for perfection as parents, that is a tall order, and I'm not saying we shouldn't be on our screens. I'm saying that we should try to be honest [00:09:00] about how we model these behaviors at home.

    And just like my patients who have daughters with anorexia, I try to remind them to make sure they're eating, that they're modeling healthy eating at home, and they're not restricting themselves. And it's not because I think the parents are to blame for someone's disordered eating, I think that the more we can do at home to model a healthy relationship with screens, the more we can sort of help our children understand that there's more to it than just screen time. It's really a relationship that we have.

    So [00:09:30] as a final note, I think it's important to recognize that when we want to take something away from ourselves, or when your doctor wants to take away something from you, like sugar, or alcohol, or screen time because it's affecting your health or well-being in some way, I think it's important to recognize that when you take something away, it's really important to replace that with something else. Screens for an adolescent, for example, provide connection, or a sense of connection. They provide joy and pleasure. [00:10:00] They also provide some brain rest. So let's acknowledge that whether it's talking to your teen or talking to yourself about moderating screen time, you also need to think about what you're going to replace that feeling with. It's a lot easier to give something up if you add other things in. In other words, where there's pain, we also need to find pleasure.

    So if you're gonna recommend to your child that they not have screens during the week, you might consider this may be a perfect time to get that rescue kitten or that rescue puppy, [00:10:30] sorry, mom and dad, if I'm ruining your family time by suggesting that. This may be the week or the month where you decide to have ice cream sundaes two days a week. In other words, it's not that you're bribing your kid, it's that you're simply being realistic about the human condition. That if we take away pleasure in one department, we need to insert pleasure in another department. Similarly, it's very hard for me to suggest to my diabetic patients, for example, that they cut back on sugar, they cut back on carbohydrates without suggesting to them, we find some other outlet for joy, [00:11:00] whether that's walking with a friend on the weekends or doing more online dating, or cultivating a book club, or making sure they go outside and enjoy nature more often.

    It's very important to offset things we deprive ourselves of because we perhaps need to with things we can insert into our everyday joyfulness. I hope that you can think about screens for yourself because I, for one, struggle with that relationship. It's a necessity. It's a joy. [00:11:30] It's the way I connect with loved ones and friends. It's also an occupational hazard of being human to be consumed by them. I hope that's helpful. I will see you next time. Please leave me a comment, I'd love to hear from you.


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