Between the Briefs

Latest Episodes:

AI Won’t Replace You. But Lawyers Using AI Will: Game-Changing Insights from Kellam T. Parks Nov 27, 2025

Show notes

Contrary to popular belief, AI won’t replace lawyers. But it’s important to remember that lawyers who use AI are a formidable opponent. In the latest episode of Between the Briefs, Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens sit down with Kella T. Parks, Managing Member at Parks Ziegler, to explore how AI and modern technology are reshaping law firm economics, why legacy systems are costing you more than you realize and the concrete strategies to future-proof your practice.
What You’ll Learn:

How to transition from billable hours to alternative fee arrangements using AI efficiencies
Why digital court reporting and AI-powered document review can reduce paralegal costs by 80-90% while improving accuracy
The three-step framework for law firms beginning their technology transformation
How to build a modern law firm using KPIs and business metrics across five key areas: financial, operational, marketing, employee satisfaction, and client satisfaction
The critical gap between technological fluency and business acumen in newly licensed attorneys
Why "AI will replace lawyers using AI, but not AI itself" and how to future-proof your practice

This conversation reveals all the perks of embracing technology - a reminder that it can transform your profitability, client service and quality of life tomorrow.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction & Meeting Kellam T. Parks

01:44 From Philosophy Major to Tech-Forward Law Firm Pioneer

03:00 The Competitive Edge: Building a Paperless Practice

04:25 Cloud-Based Systems and Digital Court Reporting Revolutionize Litigation

07:55 Hiring the Right Tech-Forward Talent

09:32 AI-Powered Document Reviews Reduce Paralegal Costs by 85-90%

13:17 Three-Step Technology Foundation for Modern Law Firms

18:09 Multi-Channel Marketing Strategy for Legal Services

20:40 Tech Skills vs. Business Acumen in New Associates

23:45 The Business of Law: Mindset, Fulfillment, and Strategic Planning

31:02 Avoiding Shiny Object Syndrome + Making Smart Tech Investments

34:37 AI Will Replace Those Who Don't Adapt

38:13 The PCRO Prompting Framework: Precision in AI-Powered Work

42:44 Kellam’s Hot Take: Lawyers Are Missing the AI Revolution

43:55 Key Takeaways: Modernizing Legal Practice for the Future
Quotes:

"I started my own firm in 2012, in large part, because I wanted to embrace modern technologies and sort of figure out a more modern way to practice law."
"We're a technologically forward company. If you're not comfortable with technology and learning new things and being willing to experiment and take the time to learn, this is not the right fit for you. We tell them right away, this is what we're about, and we actually do paid time at the firm to walk them through and see that."
"Step one is find somebody that knows what they're doing to protect yourself and educate you on the basics. Step two is be curious - I'm a YouTube junkie and I follow thought leaders in AI and technology space. Step three is join groups and get coaching, because no elite athlete is where they are without coaching."
"AI isn't gonna replace lawyers necessarily, but lawyers that use AI are gonna replace lawyers that don't. Document review, contract drafting, simple wills - there's no way AI isn't gonna completely replace lawyers doing that. Your value will shift to litigation, personal connections, and strategy rather than basic document creation."

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

A U.S Magistrate Judge’s Guide to Win the Legal AI Game: Insights from Judge Allison Goddard Nov 20, 2025

Show notes

Moving from receptionist to federal magistrate judge is the kind of journey we see on the silver screen. For Allison Goddard, U.S. Magistrate Judge for the Southern District of California, that’s just life. And, for us on Between the Briefs by Steno, it's proof that embracing serendipity, maintaining genuine human connection and leveraging emerging technologies can fundamentally reshape legal practice and judicial efficiency.
What You’ll Learn:

How to establish authentic relationships with litigants in settlement conferences

The role of facilitating psychological safety in in settlement cases

Why "baby rattlesnake" lawyers (mid-level associates with full venom but no regulatory control) require different mentorship strategies

The art of “balanced advocacy” that acknowledges opposing perspectives

How AI functions as a thought partner rather than a decision-maker for judges and attorneys

Why mandatory AI disclosure requirements are counterproductive

The "authenticity imperative" for legal professionals over the next AI-driven decade

How transparency and approachability in judicial opinions strengthen public confidence in the judiciary

From candid insights on building credibility with litigants to the critical importance of maintaining human-centered legal practice as technology transforms the profession, this episode uncovers it all.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction & Meeting Judge Allison Goddard

02:44 From Receptionist to Federal Judge: An Unconventional Path

04:36 Understanding the Magistrate Judge Role and Settlement Strategy

10:50 Private vs. Public Law: The Ebbs and Flows

17:24 Building Authentic Relationships to Facilitate Settlement

20:23 Recognizing the "Baby Rattlesnake" Phase in Legal Practice

24:08 AI as a Thought Partner: Practical Applications for Litigation

27:16 Why Mandatory AI Disclosure Requirements Backfire

32:33 Preventing Complacency: Maintaining Human Oversight of AI Tools

36:32 The Future of Legal Practice: Authenticity as Competitive Advantage

40:31 The Judiciary's Role in American Society and Public Trust

41:19 Judge Allison’s Hot Take: Authenticity Will Reign Supreme

44:15 Key Takeaways & Final Thoughts
Quotes:

“When I first got on the bench, people would say, how is your stress level? It must be so stressful to be a judge. And I would say it's like kindergarten because I don't have the stress of being on the receiving end of nasty emails about a discovery dispute.”
“I call the mid-level associate the baby rattlesnake phase because, I don't even know if this is true, but it's the myth here that baby rattlesnakes have all the venom, but none of the ability to regulate it. And that's kind of like that band of lawyers - where you haven't had enough experience to recognize what's important and what’s not.”
“I think if you're going into deposition these days and you've got a client that you're defending and you haven't at least done that, it's going to become kind of malpractice not to be prepared that way.”
“I think that the most important quality that successful people are going to have over the next 10 to 20 years is authenticity. And I think we're going to have to find a way to be our real selves. Which also means that we have to work on being better selves.”
“Well, I'm from a big family in Tennessee and there were no lawyers in my family but I always had a strong sense of right and wrong and justice. And I, also think all of my siblings will tell you, I was always pushing against power. So that was something that I always did from a young age.”

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

Why Building a Law Practice Makes You a Better Lawyer: Eye-Opening Perspectives from Scott C. Pappas Nov 13, 2025

Show notes

In the latest episode of Between the Briefs by Steno, Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens sit down with Scott C. Pappas, Managing Partner at Omnus Law to unpack the ins and outs of building an innovative firm that is revolutionizing the legal industry through their metaverse-based workplace, transparent billing structure, and commitment to attorney well-being.
What You’ll Learn:

How to build a successful remote-first law firm using metaverse technology for lawyer collaboration
Why the traditional billable hour model is being challenged by client demands for transparency and value-based billing
How ‘grace’ and ‘kindness’ are key to building a sustainable law firm culture in a virtual environment
How to leverage AI responsibly in legal practice while maintaining high-quality client service
Why law firm innovation requires both technological advancement and cultural transformation
The importance of work-life balance in attorney retention and how to structure a firm that prioritizes well-being
How to transition from traditional practice models to more flexible, technology-driven approaches without sacrificing quality
The future of legal practice management and why big law firms may need to adapt or risk shrinking

If you’re interested in being a lawyer of the future, this episode offers a compelling vision of how technology and human-centered practices are reshaping the future of law.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction & Omnus Law's Innovation

02:00 From Financial Motivation to Finding Purpose in Legal Practice

05:48 Founding Autism Behavioral Wellness: Legal Impact Beyond Practice

10:25 Why Lawyers Should Dedicate Themselves to Their Purpose

14:20 Revolutionizing Remote Work Through the Metaverse Platform

19:50 Building a Culture of Grace and Kindness in Virtual Law Practice

22:35 Transforming Legal Billing & Solving the $3000/Hour Problem

26:26 Practical Steps for Law Firms to Embrace Innovation

31:02 Prioritizing Attorney Wellbeing in Modern Legal Practice

34:12 Future Growth and International Expansion Plans

39:30 Scott’s Hot Take: The Future of Big Law and Client Expectations
Quotes:

"If you live like a lawyer when you're a student, you're going to live like a student when you're a lawyer. I will tell you, the novelty of the money wears off when you're miserable at your desk."
"I'm not positioning lawyers for success at Omnus. I'm positioning them for fulfillment in the practice of law. So what does that mean? It's practicing great law, but being able to enjoy a great life outside of the law."
"A lot of people feel that in order to be a great lawyer, it has to involve great personal sacrifice. And you could be committed to the practice, but at what point did it require us to give up everything else around us to thrive as a lawyer?"
"Law firms traditionally don't bill well - they may bill a lot, but we've institutionalized practices that allow us to communicate in real time any changes in scope of the engagement, any changes in budget, any changes in personnel handling the matter. The billable hour incentivizes the wrong behavior. Our process is really designed to minimize the friction between attorneys and clients."
"A lot of law firms talk about change, but are really reluctant. When we think about innovation, innovation isn't an act - innovation is a mindset. I would encourage those law firms to start their own innovation lab, looking at every operational process that's manual in their law firm and seeing what can be automated."

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

Mindfulness and Juvenile Justice with Judge Frank Szymanski Nov 06, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Between the Briefs, Adrian Cea speaks with Judge Frank Szymanski, a longtime juvenile court judge in Detroit. Frank shares how trauma shapes behaviour, why courts must ask “what was done to them?”, and how mindfulness-based interventions in schools and courts cut costs while improving outcomes. From yoga to evidence-backed meditation programmes, his focus is simple: deliver peace first, and better decisions follow.
With decades of experience in law and education, Judge Frank Szymanski has become a leading voice in conscious justice and youth rehabilitation. As a juvenile court judge, author of Identity Design: Design the Identity You Need to Get the Life You Want, and a motivational speaker, he blends legal insight with human development. Beyond the courtroom, Frank works with schools, community programmes, and mindfulness organisations to build systems that prioritise prevention over punishment. His ongoing mission: bring peace to chaotic lives and teach both citizens and professionals to train the mind daily, because, as he says, “our minds deserve the same care as our teeth.”
Highlights:
[00:00] Intro
[00:53] From teacher and hockey coach to lawyer and judge
[05:00] Discovering the real goal: bringing peace to chaotic lives
[07:00] Writing Identity Design and the power of ownership and service
[10:00] Why yoga became his bridge between anger and calm
[13:00] Visiting the Enlightened Sentencing Project in St. Louis and witnessing transformation
[16:00] Teaching meditation to juvenile offenders and seeing real results
[18:00] Presenting mindfulness to skeptics: the toothbrush analogy
[21:00] The science behind 80% negative thoughts and emotional regulation as a superpower
[23:00] Case study: how a Florida school turned an F into an A through daily mindfulness
[25:00] Preventing incarceration by building peace early in schools and communities
[29:00] The biggest misconception about juvenile court: “what was done to them”
[33:00] Why empathy, listening, and service make better lawyers than knowing the law alone
[37:00] Judge Frank’s “7–60 Mad Minute” mental training plan
[39:00] Closing thoughts and how to connect with Judge Frank
Quotes:

“When a kid comes into juvenile court, the question is not just what have they done, you gotta ask, well, what was done to them.”
“These people that are in this courtroom, they need to experience some peace because their lives are so chaotic and so traumatic. My whole drive ever since I became a juvenile court judge has been to find ways to deliver some sort of sense of peace.”
“I tell people, when you get control of your emotions, that’s like a superpower. That is amazing. And this is what meditation can do for us.”
“We brush our teeth every day. Why don’t we do something every day for our mind? Isn’t our mind a lot more important than our molars and our bicuspids?”
“We spend thousands of dollars on these kids that nobody paid attention to helping until they were already carjacking somebody or they murdered somebody… I wanna put juvenile judges and courts outta business because if all the schools start doing these things, they won’t want to go out and carjack somebody.”
“You gotta know the law, but the main thing you need to know if you’re gonna be a lawyer, it’s a people business. And to be a great lawyer, you have to be a great listener.”
“There’s an old saying that if you’re too busy to take 10 minutes to meditate, then you should take 20.”

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

A Paralegal’s Journey Into the Multi-Million Dollar Cannabis Industry with Samantha Misch Oct 30, 2025

Show notes

Every single organization in the world needs a regulatory body that monitors compliance and ethics. Even cannabis companies. In this riveting episode of Between the Briefs by Steno, hosts Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens welcome Samantha Misch, Senior Paralegal at Green Thumb Industries, for an insightful discussion on navigating the evolving intersection of law and cannabis compliance.
What You’ll Learn:

The unique skills it takes to make it as a paralegal in today’s tech-driven world
Why the role of a paralegal is crucial to the business of cannabis today

How to walk the line between traditional legal work and emerging technologies

How to approach and keep up with regulatory changes in the cannabis industry
The valuable strategies for career advancement in legal operations
Using technology to drive your growth as a paralegal, regardless of where you are in your career

Why the human element is a non-negotiable for paralegals today

Tune in to explore the fascinating intersection of law and the cannabis industry, and the equally fascinating role of paralegals in it all.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction to Between the Briefs

00:44 From Night School to Senior Paralegal: Sam’s Career Journey

02:07 The Power of Transparency in Professional Growth

03:14 The Multifaceted Role of Modern Paralegals

05:39 Leading the Illinois Paralegal Association

07:30 Technology's Impact on the Paralegal Profession

08:45 Inside Green Thumb Industries: Cannabis Compliance

13:58 Day-to-Day Operations of a Legal Operations Paralegal

17:10 Essential Documentation Strategies for Success

19:01 Strategic Career Entry Points for New Paralegals

20:54 AI's Role in the Future of Paralegal Work

26:11 The State of Paralegal Associations Post-2020

29:20 Leadership Journey in Professional Organizations

32:59 Final Thoughts: Staying Ahead in Legal Tech

Quotes:

"I think it's important for paralegals to be able to know a little bit of everything. I don't think you need to be a master of all things, but you need to have familiarity with a broad range of topics to be successful."
"AI cannot replace a paralegal. It could definitely streamline some processes and maybe help with creating a more efficient workload, but it can't replace the person that has to pick up the phone and talk to a client."
"The paralegals are the backbone or the silent helper in the room, and oftentimes, I feel like they have more of the small detailed knowledge that maybe the attorneys don't get a chance to see."
"I always tell people that I wouldn't jump to just a paralegal role. There's so many other roles that you can have, like a legal assistant or even a legal secretary. It's a really good way to get your foot in the door, get the experience, and understand how processes work."

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

How AI Is Re-Engineering Knowledge Management in Law Firms with Evan Shenkman Oct 23, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Between the Briefs, Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens talk with Evan Shenkman, Chief Knowledge and Innovation Officer at Fisher Phillips. Evan shares how disciplined knowledge management, clean data, and responsible AI are transforming legal operations, from enterprise search and expert-finding to the next frontier of “ambient AI” that anticipates lawyer needs in real time.
With a decade of experience as a practising labour and employment attorney, Evan Shenkman has become one of the leading voices in legal innovation. As Chief Knowledge & Innovation Officer at Fisher Phillips, he has built and scaled the firm’s knowledge management, data analytics, and AI infrastructure, most notably leading the first firm-wide deployment of Casetext’s CoCounsel, a GPT-4-powered legal assistant. Recognised as ILTA’s Innovative Leader of the Year and among the Lawdragon 100 AI & Legal Tech Advisors, Evan’s work has redefined how large law firms capture institutional knowledge, enhance efficiency, and deliver client value through responsible AI adoption.
Highlights:

[00:00] Intro

[00:53] Evan’s path from litigator to innovation leader

[06:44] What knowledge management really means in legal practice

[08:04] Collaborating with attorneys to prioritise firm knowledge

[10:03] Enterprise search & expert-finding at Fisher Phillips

[12:53] Why good time entries create better data and better experts

[14:27] Cleaning and connecting data across firm systems

[20:21] KM as the foundation for responsible AI

[22:34] How AI reshapes productivity and revenue

[26:54] Driving adoption through training and AI policy

[31:07] Developing, updating, and enforcing responsible AI use

[35:27] Balancing innovation speed with stability

[37:15] Evan’s hottest take: the rise of ambient and agentic AI

Quotes:

“KM is the foundation, the AI and the innovation is the application of that, right? You can't do a fancy AI-powered chatbot unless it's trained on really good information under the hood.”
“The innovation portion, which is just trying to have our attorneys do better stuff, different stuff, be more efficient, do things in a better, smarter, faster way going forward, figuring out what's around the corner, all of that works so much better with a foundation of good KM. And there so many people that say, hey, I would love to now create a chat out of all my firm's information. Great, where is your firm's information? Is it all up to date? Is it all accurate? Or is it all just in a big mush of some stuff is out of date, some stuff is accurate, some stuff is good, some stuff is not… If you're trying to point AI or gen AI at that, it'll do a horrible job.”
“Ambient AI right now that's able to say, know what Evan probably needs because I just heard Adrian say something, Evan needs to know this and here it is Evan, right? … that makes me smarter in real time, right? And I didn't need to prompt, I didn't need to ask, I didn't need to go into a tool… And when you add agentic flows into this, where it can actually make judgment calls… I think is the next big thing.”
“This is the most exhilarating and exhausting time to be in legal innovation…everything is moving so quickly.”

Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

The Evolution of Legal Marketing: Why Being ‘The Best’ Isn’t Enough Anymore with Michael Mellor Oct 16, 2025

Show notes

In the rapidly evolving legal landscape, a firm’s attention to legal marketing vs. the lack of it could be the difference between its success and its failure. On the latest episode of Between the Briefs, host Adrian Cea sits down with Michael Mellor, Founder of 742 Advisors, and a legal marketing expert to talk about transforming law firm marketing and business development strategies for small and mid-sized firms.
What You’ll Learn:

How to differentiate your legal practice in an oversaturated market through a unique selling proposition
Why traditional law firm marketing approaches are becoming obsolete in today's digital-first buyer journey
How to leverage AI and technology for efficient client relationship management without overwhelming attorneys
Why firm-wide accountability and leadership buy-in are crucial for successful marketing initiatives
The critical balance between maintaining legal expertise and developing business acumen in modern law practice
Why data-driven decision making is essential for convincing attorneys to adopt new marketing approaches

Tune in for insights on implementing effective marketing systems and changing traditional mindsets about legal business development.
Highlights:
00:00 Introduction01:34 From Finance to Law: A Strategic Communications Journey07:08 Walking Into a Room of Millionaires and Telling Them They're Wrong15:30 The Ikigai Framework: Finding Your Firm's True Identity21:13 The "Best Litigator in New York" Myth27:34 The Ferrari in First Gear: Why Expensive Tech Fails37:30 The Art of Disqualifying Clients42:25 Michael's Hot Take: Know Where the Puck's Going or You're Going Down45:19 Next Episode Preview
Quotes:

"I don't think that any consultant is coming up with anything extraordinarily innovative - it's really about how do you implement it in my firm. I think that's really what separates good consultants from great consultants because you can look at something from 10,000 feet away and say, well, this is easy."

2. "You can't be a generalist. You can't know everything, you can't wait for your phone to ring, you can't be the best litigator in New York. You gotta put together a plan, you gotta focus on things, you've gotta shut out the noise, and you gotta be consistent."
3."I talk to litigators, and I say, what do you wanna be? I wanna be the best litigator in New York - I say, okay, that's built on zero proof. You are having difficulty differentiating yourself on this floor of litigators, and there's six law firms in my elevator bank, so we've already got 400 litigators."
4."Leadership is so mission critical in leading by example and not the old school of “do as I say, not as I do.” If you're not inputting your stuff, if you're not sending us your closed matters, if you're not doing this stuff and you're yelling at everyone else too, that word gets out. You just watch it crumble."Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

How AI Is Transforming Employment Law and What You Need to Know to Ride the Wave with Michael Sigall Oct 09, 2025

Show notes

Employment law is evolving rapidly with technology, but are attorneys and employers keeping up? In this episode of Between the Briefs, hosts Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens sit down with Michael Sigall, an associate at Seyfarth Shaw LLP, to explore the evolving landscape of employment law and workplace litigation. Michael shares invaluable insights on proactive legal strategies for employers, the impact of remote work on workplace disputes, and how AI is transforming legal practice. From documenting workplace interactions to navigating complex class action suits, this episode offers practical guidance for legal professionals and business owners alike.
Tune in to discover why proper employment documentation matters, how to effectively handle depositions in the digital age, and what the future holds for employment law in an AI-driven world.Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

No-Nonsense Perspectives on Building a 236-Partner Virtual Law Firm with Joel M. Ferdinand Oct 02, 2025

Show notes

What does it take to be a rockstar modem trial lawyer in today’s day and age? A love for law, tech-forward curiosity and agile strategy - according to Joel M. Ferdinand, distinguished business trial lawyer and co-chairman at Pierson Ferdinand LLP. In this illuminating episode of Between the Briefs, hosts Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens sit down with Joel to explore the evolution of modern litigation practices. Joel shares invaluable insights on handling sophisticated business disputes, leveraging AI in legal practice, and building a revolutionary partner-only law firm model.
Tune in to discover why the human element remains irreplaceable in litigation while learning how to effectively embrace technological advancement in today's legal landscape.
Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

Why Data Beats AI in the Legal Tech Revolution with Ashley Gibbs Sep 25, 2025

Show notes

So you’ve got the latest AI tools in your law firm’s arsenal. Now what? If you’re hoping AI reaches its potential without quality data, you’ve got another thing coming and Ashley Gibbs, Senior Director of Product Value, Engineers and Solution Sales Executives at Litera makes no bones about it on this episode of Between the Briefs. Tune in as she joins hosts Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens to explore the critical intersection of legal technology and data management. Tune in to discover how law firms of any size can leverage AI-powered solutions to streamline workflows, enhance data accessibility, and improve client service delivery. Through the course of this conversation, Ashley shares invaluable insights from her extensive experience in both law firm operations and legal tech implementation, offering practical strategies for overcoming adoption challenges and maximizing technology investments in the legal sector.
AI can take you into the future only if it’s backed by great data. Listen in and get started!
Between The Briefs is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so

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