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    Science

    Behaviour Speak with Ben Reiman

    Welcome to Behaviour Speak, where we celebrate the diversity of human behaviour and explore the many factors that shape who we are.

    Advertise

    Copyright: © Copyright 2020-2023 | CBI Consultants Ltd. | All Rights Reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Fire Safety for Neurodivergent Learners Aug 04, 2026
    Show notes

    In this episode of Behaviour Speak, host Ben Reiman speaks with Sarah Elkami Trdina, Lina Pezzo Szodo, and Camila Grullon from Always Connected Treatment Network (ACTN) about an innovative partnership with Mississauga Fire.

    The conversation explores how behaviour analysts and fire safety professionals collaborated to create accessible fire safety education for neurodivergent children, youth, and families. The guests discuss caregiver workshops, desensitization protocols for smoke alarms, emergency preparedness training, and strategies for teaching potentially life-saving skills using behaviour analytic principles.

    The episode also highlights the importance of cross-sector collaboration, community engagement, and creating practical resources that can be shared across organizations, schools, and emergency services.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/xGxFs-8ofr4

    Continuing Education Credits

    IBAO: 1.0 ABA Topics
    QABA: 1.0 General
    CBA/CPD: 1.0 Learning

    Complete The Behaviour Speak CE Knowledge Check To Earn Your CEUs

    Enter your answers here: (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

    Question 1

    Sarah described how many larger fire safety skills are actually made up of smaller prerequisite skills. Which of the following was discussed as an example of a prerequisite skill involved in successful fire evacuation?

    A. Learning to identify all fire truck equipment

    B. Following instructions during an emergency

    C. Learning firefighter rank structures

    D. Understanding municipal fire codes

    Question 2

    What behaviour analytic strategy did the ACTN team describe for helping learners become more comfortable with smoke alarms?

    A. Overcorrection

    B. Response cost

    C. Desensitization through gradual exposure to alarm sounds

    D. Token economies only

    Question 3

    During the episode, Camila shared that behaviour analysis is still emerging in the Dominican Republic. Approximately how many behaviour analysts did she estimate were practicing in the country when she completed her supervision hours?

    A. About 5

    B. About 25

    C. About 100

    D. About 500

    Contact

    Always Connected Treatment Network

    https://alwaysconnectedtn.ca/

    Sarah Elkami Tridina

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/elkamisarah/

    Camilla Grullon

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/camilagrullon/

    Lina Pezzo Szodo

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/lina-pezzo-szodo-39127b146/

    Links:

    The September 26th Project

    https://september26.org/

    Ontario Municipal Fire Prevention Officers Association

    https://omfpoa.com/

    PECS Canada Fire Safety Resources

    https://pecs-canada.com/blog/teaching-fire-safety-messages-to-aac-users/

    https://pecs-canada.com/n-i-c-k-for-fire-and-burn-safety/

    Caribbean Association For Behaviour Analysis

    https://caribbeanba.org/


    Katisha Paul: One Heart, One Mind | Indigenous Sovereignty, Climate Leadership & the Future Jul 31, 2026
    Show notes

    This is Part Two of my conversation with Katisha Paul.

    After exploring her personal journey in Part One, we dive into the work that has made Katisha one of the most recognized Indigenous advocates of her generation.

    We discuss:

    • Leadership lessons from her ancestors
    • The history and impact of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs
    • Indigenous governance and self-determination
    • Women's leadership and matriarchal responsibility
    • Indigenous representation at the United Nations
    • The Global Indigenous Youth Caucus
    • Climate leadership and environmental stewardship
    • Rematriation and the return of cultural belongings
    • Indigenous rights implementation
    • Systems change and governance
    • NEPENEḴ and the Sovereign-Tea project
    • Legacy, future generations, and Indigenous resurgence

    Throughout the conversation, Katisha shares a vision rooted in Indigenous laws, relationships, responsibility, and what she calls moving from intergenerational trauma toward intergenerational excellence.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/i9d0_TDkbiA

    Contact Katisha Paul

    NEPENEḴ

    https://nepenek.ca/

    https://www.instagram.com/nepenekgroup/

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/katisha-paul-b6ab0235b/

    Instagram

    https://www.instagram.com/katisha.paul/

    Union of BC Indian Chiefs

    https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/

    UN Global Indigenous Youth Caucus

    https://www.globalindigenousyouthcaucus.org/

    https://www.facebook.com/GlobalIndigenousYouthCaucus/

    Tsartlip First Nation

    https://tsartlip.com/


    Behaviour Science in Sports: How N'Kayah Kersey Is Transforming Athlete Development, Leadership, and Team Culture Jul 28, 2026
    Show notes What happens when a Board Certified Behaviour Analyst brings behavioural science into competitive athletics? In this episode, Ben Reiman welcomes N'Kayah Kersey, BCBA, former Division I basketball player, athlete wellness consultant, and founder of Practiced. N'Kayah shares her journey from mentoring at-risk youth at Boys Town to building an innovative consulting practice that helps athletes, coaches, parents, and organizations improve performance through behavioral systems. The discussion explores athlete confidence, leadership development, team culture, video modeling, coach education, parent behaviour, organizational systems, and the growing role of behaviour science in sports. Along the way, N'Kayah explains her Practice Method framework, the Athlete Wellness Ecosystem, and her collaboration with WNBA star Brittany Sykes on the Return to the Brick Athlete Wellness Experience. Whether you're a behaviour analyst, coach, parent, educator, or athlete, this episode demonstrates how behavioural principles can create meaningful and measurable change far beyond traditional ABA settings. What You'll Learn
    • How N'Kayah discovered behaviour analysis through Boys Town
    • Why leadership should be explicitly taught
    • How confidence can be operationally defined and strengthened
    • The role social skills play in athletic performance
    • Using video modelling to improve confidence and leadership
    • Why culture is built through reinforcement rather than slogans
    • How parent behaviour influences athlete development
    • The Practice Method framework
    • The Athlete Wellness Ecosystem
    • Opportunities for behaviour analysts outside traditional practice settings

    Watch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/DxWgJMIClds

    Contact N'Kayah:

    https://www.instagram.com/yayakersey/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/nkayahkersey/

    https://www.instagram.com/wearepracticed/

    https://www.wearepracticed.com/

    Links:

    Transforming Basketball

    https://transformingbball.com/about-us

    Boys Town

    https://www.boystown.org/


    Katisha Paul : Part 1- Finding Her Voice | Indigenous Leadership, Resilience & Healing Jul 24, 2026
    Show notes

    Katisha Paul is one of the most influential Indigenous leaders of her generation. In Part One of this special two-part conversation, she shares the deeply personal story behind her advocacy and leadership.

    Katisha reflects on her childhood, family, cultural identity, and ancestry. She speaks openly about surviving abuse, growing up in remote communities, and carrying responsibilities far beyond her years. She also discusses how she learned to use her voice after years of silence and why protecting others remains at the center of everything she does.

    This episode explores:

    • Growing up as the oldest of nine children
    • The teachings that shaped her worldview
    • Childhood trauma and resilience
    • Finding her voice after years of silence
    • Indigenous identity and cultural grounding
    • Family, community, and responsibility
    • Leadership through lived experience
    • Intergenerational strength and excellence
    • What people often misunderstand about her journey
    • The foundations of the work she leads today

    Part Two will explore Katisha's work in Indigenous governance, sovereignty, climate leadership, international advocacy, repatriation, and her vision for the future.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/E1dn1iooEfg

    Contact Katisha Paul

    NEPENEḴ

    https://nepenek.ca/

    https://www.instagram.com/nepenekgroup/

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/katisha-paul-b6ab0235b/

    Instagram

    https://www.instagram.com/katisha.paul/

    Union of BC Indian Chiefs

    https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/

    UN Global Indigenous Youth Caucus

    https://www.globalindigenousyouthcaucus.org/

    https://www.facebook.com/GlobalIndigenousYouthCaucus/

    Tsartlip First Nation

    https://tsartlip.com/


    Building Behaviour Analysis in Lebanon: Resilience, Advocacy, and Hope Jul 21, 2026
    Show notes

    What does it take to build behaviour analysis in the middle of economic collapse, political instability, and war?

    In this episode of Behaviour Speak, Ben Reiman speaks with Christine Der Sarkissian, President of the Association for Behavior Analysis in Lebanon (ABAL), about the remarkable growth of ABA in Lebanon. They discuss parent advocacy, professional certification, culturally responsive practice, inclusion, interdisciplinary collaboration, and the challenges of delivering autism services during ongoing crisis.

    Whether you're interested in global behaviour analysis, autism services, cultural responsiveness, or systems change, this conversation offers valuable lessons in resilience and leadership.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/x9mYHLNXy6c

    Continuing Education Credits

    BACB: 1.0 Ethics
    IBAO: 1.0 Cultural
    QABA: 1.0 Ethics
    CBA/CPD: 1.0 Cultural Diversity

    Complete The Behaviour Speak CE Knowledge Check To Earn Your CEUs

    Enter your answers here: (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)
    Question 1

    According to Christine, what factor played the most foundational role in establishing ABA services in Lebanon?

    A. Government funding initiatives

    B. Universities creating ABA programs

    C. Parent advocacy and initiatives

    D. International insurance companies

    Question 2

    Which challenge did Christine identify as one of the greatest barriers to expanding high-quality ABA services throughout Lebanon?

    A. A lack of interest from families

    B. Too many certified supervisors

    C. A shortage of supervisory-level behaviour analysts

    D. Excessive government regulation

    Question 3

    Which practice best reflects the culturally responsive approach to ABA described by Christine?

    A. Using identical intervention procedures regardless of family culture

    B. Adapting intervention goals to align with family values, culture, and meaningful daily life

    C. Prioritizing standardized protocols over family preferences

    D. Limiting family involvement to reduce treatment interference

    Contact Christine

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-der-sarkissian-6a667750/

    Links:

    ABA Lebanon

    http://abalebanon.com/

    https://www.instagram.com/abalebanon/

    https://www.facebook.com/abalebanon/

    Learn more about some of the great work being done by Lebanese Behaviour Analysts in these interviews:

    Behaviour Analysis in Lebanon and Qatar with Rola El Annan

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/ep-94-behaviour-analysis-in-lebanon-and-qatar-with-rola-el-annan-med-bcba/

    Threads Of Hope: Addressing Trauma Amid War and Civil Discord with Sawsan Razzouk

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-139threads-of-hope-addressing-trauma-amid-war-and-civil-discord-with-sawsan-razzouk-ma-bcba/

    Safeguarding Vulnerable Children In The Arab World With Dr. Asmahan Saleh Khalil

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-200-safeguarding-vulnerable-children-in-the-arab-world-with-dr-asmahan-saleh-khalil/


    Building Culturally Responsive Family-Centred PBS for Chinese Immigrant Families | Chloe Wang Jul 14, 2026
    Show notes

    For decades, behaviour analysts have worked to develop evidence-based interventions that improve quality of life for children and families.

    But evidence-based doesn't always mean culturally responsive.

    In this episode, Ben welcomes Chloe Wang, BCBA and PhD candidate at the University of British Columbia, whose dissertation explores a culturally responsive, group-based Family-Centred Positive Behaviour Support program designed specifically for Chinese immigrant families of children with autism.

    Chloe shares her remarkable journey from immigrating to Canada as a teenager, discovering behaviour analysis almost by accident, completing her master's degree at Brock University, helping establish an autism treatment centre in China, and returning to UBC to pursue research that bridges science with culture.

    One of the most compelling aspects of Chloe's work is her commitment to co-design. Before launching her randomized controlled trial, she conducted focus groups with both families and professionals to refine every aspect of the intervention—from language and examples to program structure and delivery.

    Those conversations led to significant changes, including splitting the original 16-week program into two levels and expanding discussions around reinforcement and punishment after families expressed a desire to fully understand behavioural principles before embracing Positive Behaviour Support.

    Ben and Chloe also explore:

    • Why culture influences how families experience behavioural intervention
    • The importance of implementation science in clinical practice
    • Family-centred PBS across prevention tiers
    • Measuring meaningful outcomes beyond behaviour reduction
    • Maintaining treatment effects after intervention ends
    • Using technology to improve long-term sustainability
    • Future directions for culturally responsive behaviour analysis

    This episode highlights how listening to families doesn't weaken behaviour analysis—it strengthens it.

    As our profession continues to grow globally, Chloe's work provides a thoughtful roadmap for adapting evidence-based practice while remaining grounded in behavioural science.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4qOZ1GAVFCw

    Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

    BACB: 1.5 Ethics
    IBAO: 1.5 Cultural
    QABA: 1.5 Ethics
    CBA/CPD: 1.5 Cultural Diversity

    Follow us!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

    Contact Chloe

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/chloewangaba/

    City Medical Child Development Centre

    https://citychildclinic.com/case-study/chloe-wang/

    Interested in learning more about Positive Behaviour Support and culturally responsive practice? Check out these related conversations from the Behaviour Speak archives:

    • Family-Centred Positive Behaviour Support with Dr. Joseph Lucyshyn (Part 1) – Learn about the foundations of Family-Centred PBS from one of its developers, including the ecological and behavioural principles that informed Chloe's dissertation.
      Episode 43: Family-Centred Positive Behaviour Support (Part 1)
    • Family-Centred Positive Behaviour Support with Dr. Joseph Lucyshyn (Part 2) – Continue the discussion with an exploration of implementation, ethics, cultural responsiveness, and building sustainable support for families.
      Episode 44: Family-Centred Positive Behaviour Support (Part 2)
    • Empowering the Chinese Autism Community with Hazel Lim – Explore autism advocacy, family support, and community leadership within Chinese communities, complementing Chloe's discussion of culturally responsive service delivery.
      Episode 212: Empowering the Chinese Autism Community with Hazel Lim
    • Culturally Responsive Autism Support in Indigenous Communities – Drs. Candi Running Bear, Davis E. Henderson, and Olivia Lindly discuss culturally responsive autism supports and the importance of partnering with communities—many themes that resonate with Chloe's research.
      Culturally Responsive Autism Support in Indigenous Communities
    • Beyond Behaviour Reduction: Reclaiming the Constructional Approach in PBS – Oliver Roschke and John Wooderson explore how Positive Behaviour Support can move beyond reducing challenging behaviour to building meaningful, sustainable lives—an important philosophical companion to Chloe's work on Family-Centred PBS.
      Beyond Behaviour Reduction: Reclaiming the Constructional Approach in PBS

    Building Autism Services from the Ground Up: The Story of ABA in Ecuador Jul 10, 2026
    Show notes

    When Mafer Chang Espinoza returned to Ecuador after completing her education in the United States, she found a country where autism was poorly understood, ABA was virtually nonexistent, and many families had nowhere to turn.

    Rather than accepting the status quo, she began building something entirely new.

    Starting with just a few children, ethical supervision from international mentors, and a vision for accessible services, Mafer founded Centro Enigma—an organization that has spent more than a decade transforming autism services throughout Ecuador.

    In this conversation, Ben and Mafer discuss:

    • How Mafer first discovered behaviour analysis
    • Returning home to Ecuador to build autism services
    • Overcoming myths surrounding autism and ABA
    • The challenges of practicing ethically without local certification pathways
    • Building Centro Enigma from two clients into a nationally recognized organization
    • Providing services to rural and underserved communities
    • Adapting ABA to Ecuadorian culture and family life
    • Training Ecuador's next generation of behaviour analysts
    • Creating affordable parent coaching models
    • Developing an inclusive school recognized by Ecuador's Ministry of Education
    • Working with Global Autism Project
    • Growing autism awareness across Ecuador
    • The future of behaviour analysis in Latin America

    This episode is an inspiring example of persistence, leadership, and the power of behaviour analysis to create meaningful systems change.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7sSeRA5Elbk

    Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

    BACB: 1.0 Ethics
    IBAO: 1.0 Cultural
    QABA: 1.0 Ethics
    CBA/CPD: 1.0 Cultural Diversity

    Follow us!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

    Contact Mafer

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-fernanda-chang-espinoza-b79889118/

    Centro Enigma

    https://www.instagram.com/centroenigma/

    https://centroenigma.com/

    https://www.facebook.com/centroenigma

    UNIDAD EDUCATIVA FREDERIC SKINNER

    https://www.instagram.com/skinner.ecu/

    If you enjoyed this conversation about the development of behaviour analysis in Ecuador, be sure to explore these related Behaviour Speak episodes featuring clinicians and leaders from across Latin America:

    Behaviour Analysis in Guatemala
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/behavior-analysis-in-guatemala/

    Behaviour Analysis in Venezuela
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-192-behavior-analysis-in-venezuela-with-dr-mirari-elcoro-amalix-flores-and-dr-corina-jimenez-gomez/

    Behaviour Analysis in Puerto Rico
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-155-behavior-analysis-in-puerto-rico/

    ¿Quiénes Somos? An Exploration of Latinidad in Behavior Analysis
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/ep-172-quienes-somos-an-exploration-of-latinidad/

    Análisis Aplicado de la Conducta en Colombia
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/ep-233-analisis-aplicado-de-la-conducta-en-colombia-con-johanna-avila-meza-msc-iba/

    Análisis Aplicado de la Conducta en Argentina
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/ep-253-analisis-aplicado-dela-conducta-enargentinaconelizabethlopezmirandalicfonoaudiologiabcaba-iba-conla-presentadora-invitadajessie-arroyave-med/

    Together, these conversations explore how behaviour analysts across Latin America are advancing autism services, building professional capacity, adapting evidence-based practices to local cultures, and creating more inclusive communities.


    Beyond Compliance: Constructional Exposure Therapy, Psychosis, OCD, and Changing Healthcare Jul 07, 2026
    Show notes

    What if severe behaviour isn't something to eliminate—but evidence that important skills or opportunities are missing?

    Katie Gibson joins Behaviour Speak to explore the Constructional Approach, an increasingly influential framework developed from Israel Goldiamond's work and expanded through Nonlinear Contingency Analysis.

    Rather than asking how to stop behaviour, Katie explains how clinicians can identify the repertoires that are absent and build those instead. The result is often that severe behaviour decreases naturally, without ever directly targeting it.

    Throughout the conversation, Katie shares powerful real-world examples from her work in hospitals and complex behaviour programs.

    She explains how a teenager experiencing psychosis wasn't treated by challenging his delusions, but by helping him build friendships and social skills that ultimately made those behaviours unnecessary.

    She also describes Constructional Exposure Therapy, showing how children with severe needle phobia, OCD, and medical trauma can safely participate in healthcare without restraint while maintaining assent and dignity.

    The discussion extends into collaboration with psychiatry, nursing, families, and healthcare systems, demonstrating how behaviour analysis can improve patient care far beyond traditional autism services.

    This episode offers practical ideas alongside a broader philosophical shift that challenges many long-held assumptions within behaviour analysis.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/UEwEJeOqtfo

    Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

    BACB: 1.0 Learning
    IBAO: 1.0 ABA Topics
    QABA: 1.0 General
    CBA/CPD: 1.0 Learning

    Follow us!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

    Contact Katie Gibson

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiegibsonbcba/

    Links

    Find articles and resources on The Constructional Approach Website!

    https://theconstructionalapproach.com/

    Related Behaviour Speak Episodes

    Special Series On The Constructional Approach

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/category/constructional-behaviour-analysis


    Building a Legacy: Quatiba Davis, Family, and the Next Generation of Behavior Analysts Jul 03, 2026
    Show notes

    Leadership isn't something we inherit—it’s something we model.

    In this powerful multi-generational conversation, Ben Reiman welcomes Quatiba Davis, along with her daughters, Keniyah Rowe and Kennedy Rowe, for an honest discussion about leadership, resilience, representation, disability, family, and the future of Applied Behaviour Analysis.

    Quatiba shares the remarkable journey that took her from special education teacher to becoming the first Black Chief Clinical Officer in ABA, overseeing clinical services across more than 50 clinics. Along the way, she reflects on growing up in the Bronx, overcoming adversity, learning through failure, and why she believes leadership is built by serving others rather than pursuing titles.

    Episode 279 begins with Kennedy's story. Following an in-utero stroke, Kennedy faced developmental challenges that changed the trajectory of her mother's career forever. What began as one family's search for answers ultimately inspired Quatiba to pursue behaviour analysis and dedicate her career to improving the lives of others.

    As the discussion unfolds, Keniyah shares her own path—from graphic design to psychology and now graduate studies in behaviour analysis at The Chicago School. Rather than simply following in her mother's footsteps, she reflects on finding her own identity, embracing leadership in her own way, and exploring how creativity and behaviour science can intersect.

    Together, the family discusses:

    • How modelling shapes future leaders
    • Parenting through adversity
    • Disability, dignity, and high expectations
    • Black representation within behaviour analysis
    • The importance of Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs)
    • Entrepreneurship and leadership
    • Why failure often becomes our greatest teacher
    • Mentorship and paying opportunities forward
    • Building businesses without sacrificing ethics
    • Creating a legacy through service

    Throughout the conversation, one message continually emerges: leadership is not defined by job titles or professional status. Leadership is reflected in the people we encourage, the barriers we remove, and the opportunities we create for those who come after us.

    Whether you're an experienced BCBA, a student entering the field, a parent, educator, or someone passionate about creating meaningful change, this episode offers wisdom that extends far beyond behavior analysis.

    About Our Guests

    Quatiba Davis is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst, executive clinical leader, keynote speaker, professor, and author whose work focuses on clinical excellence, leadership, ethics, assessment, and expanding representation within Applied Behavior Analysis. She currently serves as Chief Clinical Officer at ABA Centers, overseeing clinical services across dozens of locations while helping develop the next generation of clinicians.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OMgXWMPzkwc

    Follow Quatiba on:

    LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/ms-quatiba-davis-m-ed-bcba-laba-lba-iba-3078808/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/quatibadavis_bcba/

    https://www.instagram.com/qed82/

    Keniyah Rowe is currently completing graduate studies in Applied Behavior Analysis at The Chicago School after earning her psychology degree from Howard University. She is also the founder of Signs of Beauty, an entrepreneurial venture celebrating identity, culture, and self-expression.

    Follow Keniyah on:

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keniyah-rowe-94524922b/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/keniyah.___/

    Signs of Beauty: https://www.instagram.com/signsofbeautyy/

    Kennedy Rowe is a Business Administration student at Florida A&M University (FAMU) whose interests include entrepreneurship, marketing, and mental health. Her personal journey inspired her mother's entrance into the field of behavior analysis and continues to influence the next generation of leaders.

    Follow Kennedy on:

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennedy-rowe-8b521a328/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kennedyyy._____/

    Links:

    Signs of Beauty

    https://signsofbeauty.bigcartel.com/

    https://www.instagram.com/signsofbeautyy/

    Quatiba's Interview on Beyond The Science

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1RxCIHsIjc

    Continue the Conversation

    If this episode resonated with you, here are a few other Behaviour Speak conversations that explore similar themes of leadership, representation, mentorship, and the future of behaviour analysis:

    Episode 76 – *The Next Generation of Black Leaders in Behavior Analysis: Empowering Success* (Adrienne Bradley, M.Ed., BCBA, LBA)

    This conversation explores the importance of representation, mentorship, and the creation of opportunities for emerging Black behaviour analysts. It pairs beautifully with today's discussion about modelling leadership and inspiring the next generation.
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-76-the-next-generation-of-black-leaders-in-behavior-analysis-empowering-success-with-adrienne-bradley-med-bcba-lba/

    Episode 142 – *Creating a Powerhouse: Forging Black Leaders in Behavior Analysis*

    Leadership doesn't happen in isolation. This episode examines what it takes to develop Black leaders in behaviour analysis, build supportive professional communities, and create lasting systems change—many of the same themes explored by Quatiba, Keniyah, and Kennedy.
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-142-creating-a-powerhouse-forging-black-leaders-in-behavior-analysis/

    Episode 237 – *An HBCU First: Training the Next Generation of Black Behavior Analysts at Florida A&M University*

    After hearing Quatiba discuss helping establish the BCaBA program at Florida A&M University, take a deeper dive into the story behind the first ABA training program at an HBCU and the importance of expanding access to behaviour analysis education.
    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-237-an-hbcu-first-training-the-next-generation-of-black-behavior-analysts-at-florida-am-university/


    Rethinking Behaviour Support for PDA Jun 30, 2026
    Show notes

    What happens when the very strategies behaviour analysts are taught to rely on become part of the problem?

    In this episode of Behaviour Speak, Ben Reiman welcomes BCBA Michelle Karren for a thoughtful discussion about PDA (commonly known as Pathological Demand Avoidance), autonomy-focused learners, and the challenges families face when traditional intervention approaches aren't working.

    Drawing on both professional expertise and lived experience as a parent of autistic children, Michelle shares how she became increasingly focused on supporting learners whose intense drive for autonomy, anxiety, and demand sensitivity require a fundamentally different approach.

    Together, Ben and Michelle explore:

    • What PDA is and how it differs from typical demand avoidance
    • The shift from "Pathological Demand Avoidance" toward more respectful language such as "Persistent Drive for Autonomy" and "autonomy-focused learners"
    • Why traditional behaviour support strategies can unintentionally increase stress and resistance
    • The role anxiety and nervous system regulation play in PDA profiles
    • Burnout experienced by learners, caregivers, and support teams
    • School challenges, masking, and the high rates of school-related stress among PDA learners
    • The importance of rapport, trust, assent, and shared control
    • Why role play and learner-led activities can be powerful tools for skill development
    • Supporting emotional regulation instead of focusing solely on compliance
    • Caregiver collaboration and helping families identify meaningful quality-of-life goals
    • The value of interdisciplinary collaboration and learning from professionals outside behaviour analysis
    • How behaviour analysts can remain evidence-informed while adapting their practice to meet individual learner needs

    Michelle challenges practitioners to remember that behaviour analysis is not defined by rigid procedures, but by careful observation, responsiveness, and a commitment to understanding what learners are communicating through their behaviour.

    Whether you're new to PDA or looking to deepen your understanding of autonomy-focused approaches, this episode offers practical insights and important reflections for anyone supporting neurodivergent learners.

    Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ble7W3G104w

    Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

    BACB: 1.5 Learning
    IBAO: 1.5 ABA Topics
    QABA: 1.5 General
    CBA/CPD: 1.5 Learning

    Follow us!

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

    Contact Michelle Karren

    LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-karren-m-sc-bcba-433716273/

    Related Behaviour Speak Episodes

    Episode 262, Motivational Interviewing for Behaviour Analysts with Dr. Monica Gilbert

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-261-motivational-interviewing-for-behaviour-analysts-with-dr-monica-gilbert/

    Episode 179, Reforming ABA: A Framework for Behavior Analysts with Oswin Latimer and Hilary McClinton.

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-179-reforming-aba-a-framework-for-behavior-analysts/

    Episode 34, Neurodiversity, ADHD, and ODD with Amelia Bowler

    https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-34-neurodiversity-adhd-and-odd-with-amelia-bowler-mads-bcba/


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