Beat Your Genes Podcast

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**Beat Your Genes Podcast**

Evolutionary psychology with Dr. Doug Lisle, PhD and Nathan Gershfeld, D.C.

Most psychology advice treats your brain like a broken machine. Beat Your Genes starts somewhere different: your instincts aren’t broken. They’re just optimized for a Stone Age environment that no longer exists.

Dr. Lisle – Evolutionary psychologist, former Stanford lecturer, and co-author of The Pleasure Trap – has spent decades developing frameworks that explain human behavior from the ground up.

Nathan Gershfeld, D.C. – trained first as an electrical engineer and then spent 14 years as a Doctor of Chiropractic. He brings a systems thinker’s curiosity to every conversation. He mostly lets Dr. Lisle talk.

Topics include relationships and attraction, self-esteem, personality, depression and anxiety, willpower, the ego trap, and how pushy people exploit agreeable ones.

380+ episodes. New episodes every other week.

New here? Start at beatyourgenes.org/start-here

Latest Episodes:

363: Too Anxious to Relax, Too Average to Admire? Jul 23, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

02:00 Q1: Too neurotic to ever feel truly calm?

18:26 Recommending an expert in anxiety & OCD

31:55 Q2: If I think I'm a 7 but men treat me like a 3, who's right—me or evolution?

54:30 Final thoughts

Q1: Dear Dr. Lisle, I'm a big fan of yours and have come to understand that a person's personality is defined by their genes. However, I feel like I cannot change my circumstances enough to be happy. I'm highly conscientious and highly neurotic and I find that this combination is making enjoying life difficult. I'm sensitive, anxious and I have OCD tendencies. I'm also sensitive to loud noises, uncomfortable clothes and clutter. I'm always trying to perfect and optimize everything. I feel like I'm intelligent enough to realize that I cannot stop bad things from happening from cancer to accidents to criminality, but my brain is still trying to figure it all out and I try to prepare myself for anything and everything. I have a great pair bond relationship, I'm happy with the people who are my friends and family, a nice enough home and an okay job. But I'm just so stressed and anxious most of the time. Is it possible that I'm so neurotic that I'm just always going to be somewhat anxious and cannot find the environment/lifestyle in this world that would somehow calm my nervous system down? I started going to therapy once again to try and find some techniques that would help and my new therapist seems to be a good person and intelligent, but a part of me just feels that I'm not going to find relief there other than just some acceptance when the therapist tells me something like "it is ok to be just who you are". She says that cognitive behavioral therapy can help with generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not so sure.

Q2: I'm a young woman and all my life men of all ages have been mean to me for no apparent reason. I'm not talking about dating, but everyday life, like at the grocery store, at school, work, or just in general. They either ignore me or are just rude. Women, on the other hand, are always nice to me. I don't think I'm unattractive, I've always rated myself above average, but men's behavior toward me indicates otherwise. This has led me to hate men and actively avoid interacting with them. Should attractiveness be determined based on your opinion of yourself or on feedback you receive from the opposite sex? There is a discrepancy there for me, because I think I'm a 7 but I get treated like a 3 by men. Is pretty privilege a real thing and I just don't get to experience it?

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

362: Esteem, Friendship, and Finding Your People Jul 11, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

02:48 Q1: Regarding Episode 27 "How to make great friends", Could DDL address more specifically how to make great friends? Similarly he has said we should earn esteem in the right way from the people who matter. How do we know what the right way is, and how do we identify the people who matter?

14:57 Conflicts of interest between friends

23:20. Never make a big decision, when a small decision will do

33:30 How do you earn esteem in the right way

44:36 Final thoughts

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

361: Lingering Loyalties, Distant Intimacies Jun 25, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

04:25. Q1: Divorced dad entangled with ex

12:28 Genetic commitment calculations

27:14 Q2: Stuck with a closed-off boyfriend

33:53 Hugging an un-huggable friend

42:09 Final thoughts

Q1: Any advice for a divorced dad who is still entangled with his ex wife? We have been divorced over five years now, but are still friends and live near one another. I initiated the divorce for a few reasons, mainly her emotional instability and our lack of intimacy. My ex is a nice person, but emotionally fragile. I help her a lot because we have two kids together and because she cannot handle working full time, so doesn't make much money. I pay almost all of the bills for our kids and am often at her house. I don't mind doing these things, but I can tell this is a turn off and red flag for women I have dated. The longest relationship I have had was just a few months, and that woman told me she felt she couldn't trust me not to go back to my ex and that she knew she would never be a bigger priority than my ex. Am I wrong to feel this level of responsibility to someone I am no longer married to? Is it realistic to expect I can ever find love again while remaining close to my ex? If so, how should I approach this topic with romantic prospects?

Q2: I have been with my boyfriend for 6 years, he is 8 years older than me and we got together when I was 22. We do not live together. He is very emotionally closed off and says this is because his parents never showed him much affection or told him they loved him so he's never learned that behaviour. He is also not very affectionate and gets visibly uncomfortable when I kiss him a few times in a row and rarely initiates this type of affection. I sometimes feel like I have a friendship, not a relationship. It's really difficult to have serious conversations about emotional issues or our future , including the prospect of living together as he gets overwhelmed and closes off. When I spoke to him about the rejection I feel when he's not affectionate he responded saying that is him being a genuine version of himself and he's not willing to fake it. Is this just a difference of personality types and do you have any methods to navigate these issues?

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

360: Affairs, Flares, and Fantasy Matches Jun 12, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

02:41 Q1: How common are affairs? Is this typical human behavior?

34:12 Q2: Am I broken or just in the wrong pair bond?

57:40 Tenacious Delusions in Psychology

1:15:35 Final thoughts

Q1: Can Dr. Lisle talk about the frequency of affairs, particularly in modern western civilization? I was a little surprised to read about the prevalence of affairs, particularly in men in "happy marriages," described in The Mating Mind. I have been happily married for over 15 years and don't have any evidence my husband has had an affair. But, I have had a general sense that it is possible, and that sense is reinforced by Buss' statistical reports on the topic. If so many married people, especially men, have affairs, it seems odd that I almost never hear about such things amongst my social group. Are men just naturally extremely and effectively discreet with their affairs? Any thoughts about the ethics of extramarital affairs given how this behavior is clearly a typical aspect of human behavior?

Q2: My friends are dissecting my ex relationship trying to analyse what went wrong, so do I actually, and Im being recommended a therapy so I do not make the same mistake again. At almost 40 I met someone who was good enough to get pregnant with, although he turned out to be more disagreeable to what my nervous system could take( not to the outside world, just at home). One child, multiple miscarriages and 5 years later he left me… I felt guilty about it as I was the one making fights and creating conflicts as I would disagree with his criticism or poor advice or poor involvement/investment in a family life. I have had a consultation with Dr Lisle already and his opinion was- it wasn't a winning relationship. But my ex partner came back. We went back to disagreeing and he left. All together 4 times in the last 6 months. He kept escaping to his sunny homeland Spain, whereas we're in the rainy UK. Im left with a child on my own, and although I got what I wanted for many years, ie an offspring, my understanding is: he wasn't my match, I stopped needing his help and I never truly admired his achievements. I was grateful for things he gave us, but I wanted more. Do I need a therapy to work on myself being disagreeable like my father and my brothers. Or is the truth in the environment: once I meet someone who provisions enough and has a lot of expertise, I will shut up and sit quietly in awe?

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

359: When They Stop Caring: Hygiene, Hope & His Libido May 29, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

04:31 Q1: My daughter doesn't care about her appearance – could it be more than just preference?

14:32 Q2: Our 42 year old dependent daughter said she'll kill herself after we die

32:35 Communication & Negotiation

39:06 Q3: My pot-smoking husband's libido has decreased – but is it me?

53:15 Final thoughts

Q1: Is neglecting personal hygiene and physical appearance really a sign of depression, or is it just personality? My 37 year old daughter doesn't care about her appearance at all, she wears pajamas and slippers everywhere with her hair up in a tangled bun and doesn't wear makeup at all. This doesn't seem so bad, but she's completely neglecting her personal hygiene, she doesn't shower for weeks, smells bad, doesn't wash her hair for months, doesn't brush her teeth regularly, hasn't gotten a haircut in years (her hair's almost down to her knees) and doesn't even brush her hair. Her complete lack of personal hygiene is worrying. She wasn't like this when she was living with me, but that could be because I was always telling her to do those things. Now that she's living alone, is this just who she is? Or should I be worried that there's something else wrong, like depression?

Q2: My husband and I are both 77 years old and we are still working to support our 42 year old daughter. We could have retired a long time ago, but we still work to save up money so our daughter can live comfortably after our passing. We know she'll never work - she hasn't worked for 20 years. She was always a smart girl, she graduated with a bachelor's degree in nursing and worked for a month during which she had many panic attacks and mental breakdowns. They forced her to take a medical leave of absence, was diagnosed with autism and anxiety issues, but she never went back to work and we've been supporting her ever since. We have quite a lot of money saved up, so she'll be able to live comfortably after we die. I recently asked her what she'll do after we die, she said she'll kill herself, that she can't live without us. This answer deeply upset me. My husband and I sacrificed our lives and retirement for her, just so she could kill herself in a few years. I feel like I wasted my life and she wasted hers, that I failed her and caused her to become so enmeshed with us that she can't live without us. I'm heartbroken. I don't know what to do. Do you have any advice?

Q3: Does a man's libido change overtime, and is it common? It has been a year since I've noticed a decrease in my husband's sexual advances and general sexual interest in me. What used to be sex at least once a week is now biweekly or less. And sometimes he even struggles to orgasm. I've brought this issue up to him a few times and his reasons is that he's tired because he works a lot (around 10 hours a day sometimes) and is generally stressed with work and life. I agree that our life is stressful right now for a few reasons (his new job, child raising, finances, dealing with family (his in-laws) issues etc) but I also have a hard time believing that those are the actual reasons. Even though I get stressed and tired, I still want to be intimate. I really don't believe he's cheating or anything like that- he's a devoted husband and father otherwise, and I also haven't gained weight, I'm the same I was when we met. But I've always been insecure about my looks and body so his lack of interest is really taking a toll on my ego. It seems he'd rather watch a show on his iPad than spend time with me. Could what he be saying really be true? Does a man's libido decline with stress or age? He is 43 and I'm 33. He is also smokes cannabis regularly (always has since I met him). Any advice on how to handle the situation is greatly appreciated!

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

358: Pretty Girls, Cold Feet, and Estrogen Dreams May 16, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

01:35 Q1: I'm pretty but my ugly competitors are getting plastic surgery!

19:05 Q2: My big, expensive wedding is coming up… but I don't want to get married anymore

27:59 Q3: Can I increase my estrogen to get more beautiful?

44:28 Final thoughts

Q1: You say that a woman's physical appearance is the most important aspect of her attractiveness when attracting a mate, but we now live in a time when natural beauty has no value anymore due to the prevalence of plastic surgery. I have personally seen women go from a 4 to a 9 with tens of thousands of dollars in plastic surgery. This is pretty common nowadays, at least where I live. With the recent advancements in plastic surgery, it is becoming increasingly difficult to detect who is fake and who is natural. As someone who was born naturally pretty, I find this very frustrating and makes it less special for those who have won the genetic lottery. How will the prevalence of well done plastic surgery change the dating landscape in the future? Will men only realize that their wife was actually born ugly when their children come out ugly?

Q2: My fiance and I have been together for five years and our big, expensive wedding is coming up in few weeks, but I don't want to marry him anymore. We have a destination wedding in Rome, Italy and we paid 250,000 euros in total for it and it is non-refundable. Also, we have 300 guests coming who already booked flights and accommodations from US to Rome, which are also expensive and non-refundable. We obviously can't cancel it and waste money ourselves and waste our guests money. We booked the venue a year ahead of time and at the time I was 100% sure I wanted to marry him. Now I don't want to anymore. I'm just not attracted anymore, and I discovered some differences in core values that I didn't know of before. I told my fiance and he said it doesn't matter what I want, we have to go through with it and make it work and not get divorced so as to not embarrass ourselves in front of our friends and family. He said if we get married and get divorced or annulled right after I would be considered a failure by everyone and lost 250, 000 euros for nothing. What should I do?

Q3: You say that women with higher estrogen levels are more beautiful. Is there a way for a woman to increase her estrogen levels either naturally or artificially and become more attractive? Or would this be unsafe?

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

357: Loving the Irrational, Living with the Stuck, Losing the One May 01, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

01:39 Q1: I've alerted my wife that she has distortions, but she still has them!

18:53 Irrational emotions vs distortions

29:48 Q2: Why would someone complain about their job but do nothing differently?

47:51 Q3: How can I get over the loss of my husband?

57:33 Final thoughts

Q1: Dear Dr Lisle, pop psychology advises men to validate their wives emotions but how do I validate something that is objectively invalid. I have taken your advice and have tried explaining to her that she has distortions in her personality that cause her to screw her perspective in a way that creates irrational emotions but that only makes her more angry. How can you get someone to see that they are interpreting reality incorrectly?

Q2: Why would a person constantly complain, get good advice and solutions, then do absolutely nothing? A person I know works a job they hate, that takes way too much time off them, and pays far to little. They complain bitterly and regularly to friends and family, get all hyped about changing things up, then proceed to do nothing but get back to complaining. I'd like to not give a damn but unfortunately I live with this person.

Q3: How to get over loss of a loved one other than "time heals all wounds?" I'm 38 years old and I lost my husband 10 years ago. Since then I've isolated myself and pretty much knew for a fact that I would be single for life. I tried going on a few dates but I wasn't attracted to any of them because deep down I know that I am still in love with my husband, even though ten years have passed. I feel depressed because I often feel lonely, but it's not a loneliness that can be alleviated with friends or family, it's because I miss my husband. Is there anything I could do to move on?

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

356: You Want Them to Change—But Will They? Suicide, Marijuana, and Sobriety Apr 17, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips

0:32 Q1 Nephew is suicidal, but he called to tell me

09:19 The psychology of suicide

30:08 Follow up question from E355

37:20 Q2 My husband is addicted to marijuana – can he change?

53:07 Q3: I'm one month sober – can it last?

1:14:19 Conclusion

Q1: What do you do when a family member calls you and tells you that they are suicidal? Last night I received a phone call from my 35 year old nephew telling me he was suicidal. Growing up he was my favorite nephew but I haven't seen him for over 20 year because he lives on the other side of the country and I was estranged from his father, my brother, who dies ten years ago. That's when his life fell apart. Before that he was a very likeable, bright, college graduate, financially successful and an extremely fit and healthy young man. Now he is obese, severely depressed, has an alcohol and gambling addiction and on multiple psych meds, just waiting to "get his meds right". He did read Anatomy of an Epidemic and did a 60 day stint in a rehab and tried AA but felt "he didn't need to be there". He was such a great kid so I'm heartbroken that his life has spiraled so out of control that he wants to end it. 😞Is there anything hope for him to turn his life around and where do you suggest he starts?

Q2: My husband is addicted to marijuana. He smokes it every day from morning to night, at home and at work. His parents and I have all tried to talk to him about his behaviour and how worried we are for his health. He's almost 40 years old and has been smoking since he was a teenager. I know I'm the bigger fool for being married to him but he's more than just the addiction, he is a hard worker and does everything for me a wife could want. And I do love him. Is there any hope of changing his behaviour, can he be persuaded to change? He was a cigarette smoker when we met and he quit when I asked him to. I feel like he should be able to quit marijuana too. I keep hoping, and waiting.

Q3: Dr. Lisle, I am 1 month sober from alcohol. I am keeping no alcohol in the home, to "take it out of season". But I am worried about relapsing, since that is common. How do I stop the sneaky voice in my head that will tell me it's okay to drink? My drinking had gotten entirely out of hand and dangerous. Is it important to follow any practices for mental and social health to remain sober for life (like most sober resources seem to promote), outside of just concentrating my thoughts on keeping alcohol "out of season"? For context, although I follow the McDougall diet where food choices are concerned, I on purpose allow myself to binge out on something "off-menu-rich" as a treat every month or 2 without "falling off the wagon" and getting more treats after they're gone, and I always maintain my ideal weight (I am very thin and athletic regardless of my food addiction, because I stick to the right foods other than that 'once-every-month-or-2' chocolate or candy binge). I'm worried this same mindset will carry over to alcohol and trick me into drinking again. I don't have a social circle of friends for support, to which my drinking contributed to, and I am an introvert.

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

355: I Married Him to Have Kids... Now He Doesn't Want Them! Apr 03, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

0:00 Teaser Clips

0:22 Q1 Husband just decided he no longer wants kids

18:08 What could have gone wrong?

27:01 Cinderella Effect

32:06 Q2 I'm pregnant and need emotional support, but my husband is focused on his business

44:10 Conclusion

Q1: I'm a 39 year old woman and my husband has just decided that he no longer wants to have kids. We talked extensively about this before getting married, I explained to him how important this was to me and he agreed that he wants kids as well. Now, a few months into the marriage, he changed his mind and doesn't want them anymore. This is honestly a dealbreaker for me. My problem is that I love him, and if I leave him now, there is no guarantee that I will ever find another man to have kids with, much less love. I'm 39 years old so my biological clock is ticking and I don't have much time left and I know finding someone to have kids with takes a long time. What should I do? Should I leave him and risk never finding anyone else to love and have kids with, or stay with him, hoping he will change his mind or let go of my lifelong dream to have kids?

Q2: I have a baby due soon, but my partner is going through a tough time with his business which is causing him huge emotional distress at a time when I need his emotional support. He is stressed and entirely consumed with ruminations about his business (although financially everything is OK). Part of me feels resentful, part of me wants to make him happy. How can we navigate this reality without damaging our relationship in the meantime? We have love, commitment, kids and mortgage together and I'm happy in the relationship except for the fact that 99% of his mental energy is now going into his business with not much left for me and new baby.

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com

Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com

Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use

354: Can't Lower Your Standards? That's Not a Flaw – It's Your Biology. Mar 20, 2025

Show notes

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld.

Q1: How does one know if or when it is time to settle in dating? I'm 45 years old and have only dated men who I would consider a friend, and have never met anyone who excites me like a romantic partner would. Therefore, I let these men go, kept looking for the next best thing and never found it. Is there a point in life where we should just realize that this partner is the best we are ever going to get even though they are different than what we imagined? Is there a point where we should settle and stop looking even if we are not super excited about that person and how do we know when? At 45 I still consider myself good looking but I'm past my prime, so should I just settle for one of these "friends"?

0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro

1:35 Q1 - Should I lower my standards and settle? I'm 45 and haven't yet found a partner that excites me.

5:45 General mood model – where does excitement comes from?

14:13 A common strategy for women

18:23 Women are told to lower their standards

23:41 Why are looks so important?

28:40 Changing the strategy

31:15 A request for David Buss or Geoffrey Miller – is there scientific evidence for Repeat Exposure in women?

37:11 Things to watch out for.

X: @BeatYourGenes

Web: www.beatyourgenes.org

Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com