At Last She Said It

Episode 199 (Bonus): Revisiting "Did It Ever Matter?" | Garments Oct 29, 2024

“All dogma begins in mysticism,” says Rob Bell. But by the time programs, practices, and policies filter down to Church members, it’s little wonder the criteria for determining what really matters in the long term—and why—can feel a bit fuzzy. In light of recent changes, in bonus Episode 199 Cynthia and Susan revisit their conversation from Episode 102, Did It Ever Matter? What’s the point of all the trappings of our religious practice as Latter-day Saints? Why do some changes bring so much emotion? And who gets to determine what’s important to us?

Episode 198 (Bonus): What About Women Leaving the Church? | Revisiting Messages to Our Daughters Oct 01, 2024

An August 2024 Church Handbook update includes instruction inviting “Young Women class presidencies to organize youth to minister by welcoming visitors and members as they enter the chapel.” Does this baby step represent leadership’s awareness of the need for Latter-day Saint young women to have some kind of systematic responsibility at the ward level? In Episode 198, Cynthia and Susan discuss this change in the context of research detailing historic shifts in religious engagement for Gen Z men and women. This episode also revisits a previous exploration of the question many of the Church’s children are asking: “When will girls be able to pass the sacrament?”

Episode 197: Season 8 | That's a Wrap! Aug 27, 2024

As a finale to this season of conversations about women’s spirituality, in Episode 197 Susan and Cynthia revisit some ideas that stood out to them, discuss personal takeaways, and chat about what’s on each of their minds now.

Episode 196: What About Ritual? | A Conversation with Selina Forsyth Aug 20, 2024

“For me, broadening my thinking about ritual has given me more freedom to bring my whole self and my creativity to my spiritual life, as well as meet my unique and evolving spiritual needs,” explains Selina Forsyth, who joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss ritual in the lives of Latter-day Saint women. What about when the rituals provided by our religion no longer fit? Even if they do remain deeply meaningful, in a church where women have not been involved in creating official sacred rituals—and sometimes participate in them only as observers—it can be hard to feel we have authority to create personal sacred rituals for ourselves. Episode 196 is a conversation about the intentional making and marking of meaning in the big and small moments of our lives.

Episode 195: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Candice Clark Aug 13, 2024

Every Latter-day Saint woman’s walk is unique. Cynthia and Susan are joined in Episode 195 by Candice Clark, who shares a glimpse of her personal path and some valuable insights she’s picked up along the way. She reminds us, “As a mother raised in the Church, one thing I’m grateful to have finally learned is that my desires matter. They don’t matter more than anyone else’s; they also don’t matter less. It’s good to know what I want, whether or not I get it. And it’s okay for me to get what I want sometimes.”

Episode 194: Mental Health, Spirituality, and Religion, Oh My! | A Conversation with C.A. Larson Aug 06, 2024

“If one is religious but not spiritual, it will not enhance mental health,” says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 194, C.A. joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation at the intersection of religion and spirituality. What are the differences between the two? How do they function together, and separately? And what influence might each one have on our overall wellbeing?

Episode 193: What About Blessings, Part 3 | Things That Would Be Nice If They Were True Jul 30, 2024

Bad things happen to good people—good works cannot protect us from the natural consequences of being human in an imperfect world. But in a church where the narrative often draws connections between worthiness and blessings, it can be hard to avoid internalizing the idea that we’re special and can achieve control by doing the right things. “How do I reconcile my life experiences with the things the Church teaches about blessings?” This prompt from a listener frames Susan and Cynthia’s discussion in Episode 193. It’s a conversation about one of life’s biggest questions, and the spiritual havoc members sometimes wreak by meeting suffering armed with well-meaning answers.

Episode 192: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Anne Pimentel Jul 23, 2024

“We can do things a little differently and still be okay,” says Anne Pimentel. She’s a natural—but also intentional—space-maker, devoted to the idea that one can be a “good member” of the Church without fitting the mold. In Episode 192 Anne joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about how she learned and has internalized this lesson for herself. She’s a Latter-day Saint woman whose desire to be an ally in all areas continues to shape the way she shows up in her ward and in the world.

Episode 191: What About Grief? | A Conversation with Pam Heggie Jul 16, 2024

“My faith life really begins with death,” explains Pam Heggie. “Meaning, the real, genuine experiences of my life that molded me, shaped me and taught me what love and empathy really are, began with deaths. Four (so far) to be exact. Five if you count my own.” In Episode 191, Pam joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss lessons she’s learned at the intersection of grief and faith. In what ways might being a member of our church make grieving easier...or harder? Her experiences are packed with insights that can help all of us in our desire to mourn with and bring comfort to each other in times of grief.

Episode 190: What About Sister Missionaries? | Part 2 Jul 12, 2024

Bonus Episode 190 contains all the voicemails we couldn’t squeeze into the previous episode's discussion exploring unique complexities of being a Sister missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Episode 189: What About Sister Missionaries? Jul 09, 2024

In Episode 189, ALSSI team member and returned missionary Katie joins Cynthia and Susan for a dive into listener voicemails about women’s experiences as sister missionaries for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the pressures around the decision to serve to the daily realities of mission life, there’s plenty to unpack. The rigors of mission service can pay big dividends and/or cause ongoing pain for years post-mission. Every missionary’s experience is individual—a complicated mix of hardship and reward—but is there additional complexity for women who serve?

Episode 188: Jesus & the Canaanite Woman | Cynthia’s Sacrament Meeting Talk Jul 02, 2024

“If you lift up a prism, depending on how you slightly turn it, the light will hit different facets, refracting and coming out in different ways. That's how I like to approach the scriptures,” explains Cynthia, “Turning them just ever so slightly to see what different meanings there could be.” In Episode 188, she turns her personal prism on the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman, exploring some interpretations of the unique dialog between them. It’s a short story touching on big themes including vulnerability, growth, faith, persistence, and inclusiveness. Then Susan joins and together they dive a little deeper into Cynthia’s insights and discuss a few possible takeaways.

Episode 187: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Amy Watkins Jensen Jun 25, 2024

“Spiritual stretching ... makes you stronger, gives you more balance, and keeps you stable. It took me years to understand that my questions and seeking that stretch me, and are really difficult to wrestle with, are healthy and completely in line with our theology. [...] We need more stretchy saints.” Amy Watkins Jensen has plenty of hard-earned wisdom to share with those who may be experiencing challenges—even heartbreak—on their journey as Latter-day Saint women. In Episode 187, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk about how her lifetime of church experience continues to fuel her faith.

Episode 186: What Happened to Community? | A Conversation with Candice Wendt Jun 18, 2024

“Life as a member offers relatively little social time or enjoyment,” writes Candice Wendt. “Being in the ward is mostly about passive listening and being told to follow leaders and go to the temple. [...] You’re more likely to get asked to clean our very dirty building than be asked to dinner." In episode 186, Candice joins Susan and Cynthia for a discussion of some of the ways church has changed, with more focus on things like covenants and temple attendance, and less on community. It’s a conversation about what we’ve lost, what’s important, what remains, and what it all might mean in the lives of members and the future of the organization.

Episode 185: Does That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? | A Dance with the Parable of the Talents Jun 11, 2024

Rob Bell describes interacting with scripture like this: there’s the black ink (what’s written on the page), then there’s the white space around it (where we dance with what’s written). In Episode 185, Susan and Cynthia take on what Latter-day Saints commonly call the Parable of the Talents, from Matthew 25. It’s a conversation about grace out of hand, covenant relationship, and how we may have come to think about things the way we do. If you’re a fan of the #gracepeddlers, you won’t want to miss it!

Episode 184: Am I Allowed to Change? | A Conversation with Jana Spangler Jun 04, 2024

Many of us make temple covenants as young adults. Are we expected to have the same perspectives and priorities at 80 that we had at 18? In a church that emphasizes concepts like “staying on the covenant path” and “enduring to the end,” it can be hard to know how to navigate when our life experiences invite us to grow in new directions. In Episode 184, Jana Spangler joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss the challenges Latter-day Saints may face as they change and mature within an inflexible paradigm.

Episode 183: What About Anger? May 28, 2024

We asked, you answered! Of all emotions, anger might be the least acceptable for Latter-day Saint women. Many of us are not comfortable being around it, expressing it, talking about it, or even feeling it. But when we choose silence over healthy dialogue, what’s the toll on our physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being? In Episode 183, Cynthia and Susan share listener voicemails about anger. Can we create space in our church culture for women to both experience and express this natural response?

Episode 182: The Harder the Better | A Conversation with Valerie Hamaker May 21, 2024

Does devotion always require walking uphill? What’s the difference between good-hard and bad-hard? Do some Church members see the difficulty of a thing as a measure of the righteousness it requires? Has “more suffering and sacrifice” somehow come to mean “higher and holier” in the LDS narrative? In Episode 182, Valerie Hamaker of Latter-day Struggles podcast joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss these questions and more as they unpack the notion that harder is better when it comes to living our faith.

Episode 181: What About the Sacrament? May 14, 2024

As the centerpiece of Sunday worship and an ordinance pointing directly to Jesus Christ, the sacrament holds deep meaning for many Latter-day Saints. In Episode 181, Cynthia and Susan turn their grace-peddling to a conversation about the sacrament. What matters more: worthiness, or willingness? When did this simple remembrance of Jesus become about “renewing our baptismal covenant,” and what does that mean? How might the evolution of personal faith impact the way one thinks about and engages with this ordinance? Can a ritual that is so familiar take on new significance as we change and grow?

Episode 180: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Mary Cox May 07, 2024

Mary once put a vinyl motto above her kitchen door that read, “That’s What We Do!” It was a 4-word description of her life as a Latter-day Saint woman. For many years, she and her husband were “the couple who could get it done” at church. She describes looking back with grace for that younger self: “She was doing the best she could with what she knew. But she was exhausted and her children and family structure suffered. More importantly—she suffered.” Then Mary changed. In Episode 180, she joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about that change and rebuilding her spiritual life from the bottom up, with just 3 components in the foundation: “Love and Jesus and Me ... what else really matters?”

Episode 179: Am I Spiritual? Apr 30, 2024

What is spirituality? Am I doing it right? What does it look or feel like? Who decides? Episode 179 rounds out the intro of our theme with an exploration of James Finley’s idea: “The greatest teacher of God’s presence in our life is our life.” Cynthia and Susan discuss the difference between communication and communion, finding points of connection in our daily experiences, and identifying and/or choosing personal spiritual practices for ourselves.

Episode 178: Women's Spirituality | A Conversation with Brittney Hartley Apr 23, 2024

Like flowers in the cracks of a sidewalk, women’s spirituality has had to work its way around and through thousands of years of religious beliefs and practices established and maintained by and for men. “I have stopped trying to make my life look spiritually acceptable to men. Men have very specific criteria for what spirituality is, based on the reality that men have been the only ones writing religious rites and scripture,” explains Brittney Hartley. Her words are deeply resonant for many Latter-day Saint women who struggle to grow our own spirituality in a church that is patriarchy all the way down. In Episode 178, Brittney joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about women defining and redefining for ourselves what spirituality can be.

Episode 177: Going Off-Brand Apr 16, 2024

“There is room to honor and hold space for the precious and the meaningful even as we evolve in our beliefs, our homes, and our lives. It’s okay to bring some things with you.” These wise words from writer Sarah Bessey help shape the conversation of this Season 8 opener. Everyone who’s moved knows it can be hard to decide what to toss and what to keep. Latter-day Saint women may find it challenging to honor the evolution of our personal faith within the church brand we’ve known and loved. It's okay to need more space! How can we incorporate good fruit gleaned from new sources—those off-brand beliefs or practices we’ve found outside our previous boundaries that feel expansive, nourishing, or even essential to our growth?

Episode 176 (Bonus): What About Season 8? Apr 09, 2024

In this short bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia look ahead to the upcoming season of podcast conversations. Season 8 will center on Latter-day Saint women digging and drawing from our individual spiritual wells. Hope you’ll join us!

Episode 175 (Bonus): Revisiting When Women Are The Problem Apr 02, 2024

In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan revisit part of an earlier discussion exploring the idea of Latter-day Saint women’s complicity in our own marginalization. Recent events have once again highlighted ways women may be the biggest obstacle to achieving greater parity of roles within the organization. It’s still an itchy topic with no easy answers. This conversation is a call for women to support other women as a necessary first step to change. The underlying question remains: if we can’t allow for—and sit with each other in—different experiences, can we truly love one another?

Episode 174 (Bonus): Exhibit A—Reactions to the Relief Society Broadcast Mar 19, 2024

On March 17, 2024 the Church broadcast a Worldwide Relief Society Devotional featuring remarks from the RS General Presidency and President Nelson. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss some of the messages delivered and the social media outpouring from Latter-day Saint women in response.

Episode 173: An Open Letter to the Church | The Imagination Episode Jan 30, 2024

Some topics come up in these podcast conversations again and again, and that gets our attention. They frustrate us but also feel like obvious opportunities: areas where the church we love could take a step forward, and even small changes might make a big difference. In Episode 173, Cynthia and Susan call out a few of their frustrations and imagine possible responses that would feel like real progress.

Episode 172: The Grace Peddlers are Back Jan 23, 2024

Talk a lot about guilt and shame and eventually, you'll probably crave a hefty dose of grace! The conversation in Episode 172 is just that. Cynthia and Susan focus on challenges Latter-day Saints might have decoupling works and grace. Is it possible accepting grace actually requires more faith than depending on our own good works? How might pivoting toward grace propel us forward? Good news spoiler: We don’t have to save ourselves!

Episode 171: What About Guilt and Shame? | A Conversation with C.A. Larson, Part 2 Jan 16, 2024

In Episode 171, Susan and Cynthia continue their discussion with therapist C.A. Larson about guilt and shame. Where are they coming from? What are some specific ways these emotions might affect Latter-day Saint women, and how can we recognize and work through them in healthy ways?

Episode 170: What About Guilt and Shame? | A Conversation with C.A. Larson, Part 1 Jan 09, 2024

“The most liberating process is to realize that no one’s expectations for my life matter but my own,” says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 170, she joins Cynthia and Susan for the first part of a discussion about guilt and shame. What’s the difference between these two emotions? How do they help or hinder our growth and progress? And what tools can we use to manage them in healthy ways, and move toward greater self-acceptance?

Episode 169: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Lisa Torcasso Downing Jan 02, 2024

“My religious life is beyond the confines of my ward or stake,” says Lisa Torcasso Downing, a Latter-day Saint woman for whom using her voice is an integral part of her faith life. She describes her long-running blog, Life Outside the Book of Mormon Belt: "That's where I’ve been saying it!” In Episode 169, she joins Susan and Cynthia for a rich conversation about everything from her unique conversion story to some of the foundational ideas that shaped her Mormonism to the ups and downs of learning to advocate.

Episode 168: Revisiting What Women Don't Get in our Church Dec 26, 2023

Some questions need to be revisited often so we don’t lose sight of the fact that no satisfactory answer has been given. In Episode 91, Cynthia asked, “If history shows that patriarchy is bad for women, and data shows that girls and women fare better when they can see themselves at every level of leadership in our churches, schools, and societies…why do LDS women and men continue to cling to old ideas that deny history and data?” Unfortunately, her question stands, as little if any progress has been made. In Episode 168 we preface a rerun of this previous conversation with a few of the thoughts we have about it now.

Episode 167: Behind the Scenes Dec 19, 2023

Sometimes it’s good to just have fun! Episode 167 is a peek behind the curtain at ALSSI. Cynthia and Susan turn on the mics for an unscripted chat about everything from podcaster-pet-peeves to “spilled tea” to Christmas traditions. It’s the kind of conversation that’s probably good to publish now and then just to remind ourselves and everyone else: we’re two average LDS women trying to keep it together and figuring stuff out as we go.

Episode 166: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Lyric Montgomery Kinard Dec 12, 2023

Lyric Montgomery Kinard uses the word expansion to describe her faith journey because, as she says, “it feels like spirituality has burst my Mormon box wide-open.” In Episode 166, she joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about her experiences as a Latter-day Saint. It’s another glimpse into the life of a woman who’s given herself permission to walk the path in her own way, honest about what fills her and what doesn’t, and willing to speak her truth.

Episode 165: BONUS | Still Talking About Patriarchal Blessings Dec 08, 2023

We asked, you answered! In Bonus Episode 165, women from the ALSSI community share personal experiences and thoughts about Patriarchal Blessings.

Episode 164: What About Patriarchal Blessings? Dec 05, 2023

When it comes to Patriarchal Blessings, there are as many experiences as there are members who give and receive them. In Episode 164, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Blakelee Ellis for a discussion about some of the many ways these highly anticipated blessings can be complicated for Latter-day Saint women. From the experience itself to the advice given or promises made, there can be plenty to unpack at the time the words are spoken, but also as we continue to revisit the transcript throughout our lives.

Episode 163: Finding Jesus Through Your Inner Compass | A Conversation with Autumn McAlpin Nov 28, 2023

The image of the compass feels central to Autumn McAlpin’s book, But Jesus: A Conversation. Autumn explains, “Right now, my spiritual practice is centered on this—I read pure religion as found in the gospels in the New Testament, then try my best to keep up…” In Episode 163, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk about the journey behind the book, and how her experiences as a mother and Latter-day Saint LGBTQ+ ally continue to shape her commitment to following Jesus and focusing on love.

Episode 162: Stepping Out of the Box with Jesus—Claiming Space in the Gospel Narrative | A Conversation with Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi Nov 21, 2023

“I’m tired of putting Jesus in a hermeneutical box nailed together by patriarchal exegesis,” says Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi. In Episode 162, she joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss what those words mean. What might they mean specifically for Latter-day Saint women as we approach the New Testament with a desire to broaden our scriptural understanding and interpretation? Can we excavate meaning by uncovering and examining biblical women in new light?

Episode 161: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Debbie Squires-Coleman Nov 14, 2023

“In the fleet, I'll sail my own boat,” says Debbie Squires-Coleman. In Episode 161, she joins Cynthia and Susan from her home in England to share this and other insights in an Embracing Your Journey discussion about her experiences as a Latter-day Saint woman. It’s a conversation about relationships and growth, full of wise glimpses into how it’s possible to walk together in love, even on divergent paths.

Episode 160: At Last YOU Said It Part 2 | More Listener Voicemails Nov 10, 2023

In Bonus Episode 160, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss more ALSSI listener voicemails.

Episode 159: At Last YOU Said It | ALSSI Listener Voicemails Nov 07, 2023

We started this project in an effort to amplify Latter-day Saint women’s voices and create a safe space for sharing ideas and experiences. In Episode 159, Cynthia and Susan dive into listener voicemails to hear, share, and discuss things women in the ALSSI community are saying.

Episode 158: Telling the Truth | A Conversation with Jana Riess Oct 31, 2023

Telling the truth can be complicated for a Latter-day Saint woman, even if we value honesty. It’s hard to say out loud some of what we’re thinking, feeling, or experiencing. At church or even in our families and close relationships we may self-censor with an ‘okayness’ filter: Is it uplifting? Faith promoting? Too negative? Does it cast the Church in an unfavorable light? Sound contentious? Will I look less worthy/valiant/faithful? And how are others likely to react? In Episode 158, Susan and Cynthia are joined by author/columnist Jana Riess for a conversation about potential upsides and downsides of telling it like it is.

Episode 157: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Mer Monson Oct 24, 2023

Every faith path is walked one step at a time. Every woman’s story is unique. In Episode 157, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Mer Monson to talk about her journey so far, and how the ground she’s traveled informs the way she’s walking now. It’s a conversation that radiates hard-won wisdom, an inspiring glimpse into one Latter-day Saint woman’s spiritual life.

Episode 156: What About Consent? Oct 17, 2023

There are many touchpoints with consent in a Latter-day Saint woman’s church life. From baptism to temple ordinances to accepting callings, we say yes over and over again, sometimes without ever seriously engaging our options. In Episode 156, Susan and Cynthia unpack consent. There are good reasons a woman might say ‘yes’ even while something inside her is saying ‘no,’ but true consent isn't coerced by force, threats, pressure, or intimidation. And silence is not consent.

Episode 155: To the Children of the Mothers in Zion | A Conversation with Susie Augenstein Oct 10, 2023

For Latter-day Saint women in 1987, expectations outlined by the prophet were explicit: “Mothers in Zion,” he said, “Your God-given roles are so vital to your own exaltation and to the salvation and exaltation of your family.” In episode 155, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Susie Augenstein to break down the messaging mothers received then and have raised children in the shadows of since. It’s no wonder shifts in faith cause strain within families. This conversation is aimed at helping children of women who took President Benson’s words to heart understand why their mothers may sometimes fall into the trap of thinking they’re completely in charge of getting the whole family into heaven.

Episode 154: What About Racism? | A Conversation with Tamu Smith Oct 03, 2023

“What could a Relief Society lesson on racism look like?” “What do you wish other members of the Church knew about what it’s like to be a Black Latter-day Saint in 2023?” Cynthia asked Tamu Smith these questions and more as they visited in Cynthia’s kitchen with the recorder running. In Episode 154, Tamu shares her personal insights and answers in a wide-ranging, thoughtful conversation between two good friends.

Episode 153: When Women Can't Stay Sep 26, 2023

Embracing our journey means accepting that every individual’s path is different. While some Latter-day Saint women think about why they stay, others will be thinking about why they make the choice not to. In Episode 153, two women who found stepping away from church engagement to be the right choice for them share their personal stories. It's a conversation about why leaving is not as easy as some members may think, and why staying is not always the best option.

Episode 152: Spelling It Out Sep 19, 2023

For some Latter-day Saint women, embracing the journey may include reckoning with difficult aspects of the church experience that are specific to women. Some may choose to leave when they find their personal cost exceeds their benefit. In Episode 152, Susan and Cynthia muddy the water around the decision to 'stay' with a frank discussion about things a woman may have to accept, ignore, or sacrifice in order to make that choice.

Episode 151: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Aubrey Chaves Sep 12, 2023

Every Latter-day Saint woman is on her own journey of faith. We describe it using all kinds of language, and some days the path ahead seems a lot clearer than other days. We each carry our own baggage, our own maps, our own stories of how we came to be where and who we are. Learning to relax into change in this part of our lives can be difficult in a religion where we hear phrases like ‘immovable faith,’ ‘knowing with every fiber of our being,’ and ‘unchanging doctrine.’ In Episode 151, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Aubrey Chaves for a conversation about movement. It’s about reclaiming personal authority, following spiritual energy, and embracing our individual path.

Episode 150: Why We Stay Sep 05, 2023

Season 7 begins with a series of conversations exploring reasons some women continue to find spiritual value participating in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and some do not. Every individual has her own faith story, and in Episode 150, Cynthia and Susan ask themselves and each other the question listeners continue to ask more than any other: Why do you stay?

Episode 149: BONUS | Still Making Peace Aug 15, 2023

Where are you turning for peace these days? It can feel elusive on a shifting path! In bonus Episode 149, Cynthia and Susan revisit an earlier conversation to compare notes and discuss things they’re still learning when it comes to the ongoing challenge of ‘making and doing’ personal peace.

Episode 148: BONUS | Still Asking—Where's the Priesthood in That? Aug 01, 2023

In this bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia discuss new thoughts and old frustrations around a previous conversation from ALSSI Episode 35 about church callings and priesthood authority. What is changing when it comes to organizational roles for Latter-day Saint women, and what hasn’t changed at all? Is there movement toward greater equality in our church opportunities and experiences? Are women getting any closer to finally being “in the room where it happens?”

Episode 147: BONUS | Revisiting the Map Jul 18, 2023

In this episode, Cynthia and Susan add a few new thoughts to their conversation from Season 1 about going off the edge of one’s map in pursuit of a more personalized spiritual life. In this discussion ALSSI listeners will recognize the seeds of many foundational ideas about the importance of spiritual empowerment for Latter-day Saint women that this podcast has continued to develop and explore in depth.

Episode 146: BONUS | Revisiting the Rule Breaking Woman Jul 04, 2023

In Episode 146, Cynthia and Susan revisit The Rule Breaking Woman to discuss what her story can teach Latter-day Saint women about spiritual empowerment. It's a scriptural example of a woman who took a big risk, and received exactly what she was seeking in return. Sometimes getting what we need may require us to make choices that are at odds with what others deem acceptable or appropriate.

Episode 145: Season 6 | That's a Wrap! Jun 20, 2023

Finale Episode 145 is a look back at Susan and Cynthia's sixth season of ALSSI conversations: identifying themes, adding additional thoughts, discussing listener responses, and thinking ahead.

Episode 144: Messages to our Daughters | Part 2—To Our Young Selves Jun 13, 2023

If you had the opportunity, what would you say to young Latter-day Saint girls about things like patriarchy, priesthood, women’s roles, the messages they receive at church, and how those messages should be weighted as they approach the big life decisions ahead? What would you say to your own young self? Episode 144 is Part 2 of our conversation about things ALSSI listeners want the Church’s kids to know, and/or wish we’d heard ourselves.

Episode 143: Get Used to Disappointment | A Conversation with Dr. Julie Hanks Jun 06, 2023

“Your job as an adult is to disappoint people.” So said Dr. Julie Hanks the first time she was on the ALSSI podcast. In Episode 143, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk more about actually applying that statement in our lives and relationships. Why might it be hard for Latter-day Saint women to believe our choices don’t have to please everyone—or even anyone—else?

Episode 142: Messages to our Daughters | Part 1—About Girls and the Sacrament May 30, 2023

One of the questions Cynthia and Susan hear most often comes from mothers who write, “My daughter is asking when it will be her turn to pass the sacrament….what should I say?” They took this question to listeners and in Episode 142, voices from the ALSSI community share answers. It’s a broad conversation about women and priesthood featuring a diversity of ideas, experiences, and perspectives.

Episode 141: The Making of Biblical Womanhood | A Conversation with Beth Allison Barr May 23, 2023

Can faithful women reject patriarchy? Beth Allison Barr's book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth, suggests the answer is yes. Her book is a compelling 'untelling' of the story of patriarchy as divinely appointed truth. In Episode 141, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Dr. Barr for a conversation about historical forces that have shaped women's roles in the world and at church. She offers insights not only into women's roles in the Bible, but specific to the lives of women in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today.

Episode 140: Does That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? | A Dance with the Ten Virgins May 16, 2023

Every church goer has probably heard more lessons about the wise and foolish virgins than they can count. Why do Latter-day Saints love to talk about this parable so much? And why do we seem to be so attached to one interpretation of it? In Episode 140, Susan and Cynthia try to shake up the same old conversation about this story—and the women in it—by asking a few new questions, and imagining new answers.

Episode 139: BONUS—Let's Talk About Garments...at last! | More with Afton Southam Parker May 12, 2023

What would you say if you had the ear of the people in charge of designing garments? Afton Southam Parker came prepared with a 37 slide PowerPoint presentation, based on her own experiences and those of many other women who wear them. The meeting was a masterclass on many of the communication tips she talked about in Episode 138. In bonus Episode 139, she joins Cynthia and Susan to review her presentation, and break it all down!

Episode 138: Finding Your Voice...and Using It | A Conversation with Afton Southam Parker May 09, 2023

Bringing attention to issues affecting Latter-day Saint women requires us to be opportunistic about using our voices. Even those in leadership callings don’t always find their ideas and opinions are welcome. And when chances to be heard do arise, the power dynamic of our culture and organization may make it hard for a woman to find the courage to express a non-traditional view. In Episode 138, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Afton Southam Parker, a woman who knows how to speak up about things that matter to her. It’s a conversation about finding ways to make individual opinions, ideas, and experiences known in a church where sharing them is rarely encouraged.

Episode 137: Let's Talk About Healthy Relationships | A Conversation with Meghan Decker May 02, 2023

In close relationships, sometimes it’s difficult to differentiate between a loved one’s side of the road and our own. We may develop unhealthy or unbalanced behavioral patterns. Codependency is one word used to describe what happens when we begin internalizing someone else’s emotions, or allow our well-being to become dependent on their behavior. We may try to fix, rescue, or control them. In Episode 137, Susan and Cynthia are joined by author Meghan Decker to discuss relationships and the challenges and rewards of establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries with the people we love.

Episode 136: Let's Talk About The One True Church Apr 25, 2023

“I know this church is true.” Many Latter-day Saints rely on this anchor phrase when bearing testimony, but what do the words really mean? What are the implications—good and less so—of believing an organization carries the divine stamp of approval? Could devotion to a label like ‘The One True Church’ come with a shadow side?

Episode 135: What About Religious Trauma? Apr 18, 2023

What’s religious trauma? For some Latter-day Saint women, church may become difficult or even unsafe because of it, yet many members have probably never heard of it. In episode 135, Jana Spangler joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion of some of the ways trauma may manifest in our church experience, and steps we can take toward healing.

Episode 134: What About Converts? | A Conversation with KC Bramer Apr 11, 2023

Many Latter-day Saint women have had similar experiences as lifelong Church members. We come up through Primary and Young Women’s singing the same songs, going to camp, and participating in correlated lessons and activities. But what about women who convert later in life? In Episode 134, Cynthia and Susan chat with KC Bramer about her experiences before and after joining in her mid 40s. What’s attractive about this church? What’s confusing? Against the backdrop of her personal conversion and religious story, KCs insider/outsider perspective provides interesting insight into things that are the same and things that set us apart, things we do well and things we might do better in the process of shepherding people into the Church.

Episode 133: BONUS—Ask Us Anything | ALSSI's Third Anniversary Part 2 Apr 07, 2023

Enjoy dessert with Susan, Cynthia, and Blakelee in this continuation of ALSSI's Ask-Us-Anything Third Anniversary podcast celebration.

Episode 132: Ask Us Anything | ALSSI's Third Anniversary Apr 04, 2023

Please join us for Episode 132 as we celebrate our podcast anniversary with an Ask-Us-Anything conversation, hosted by Blakelee Ellis and featuring listener questions with Cynthia-and-Susan answers! It’s a fun, wide ranging discussion packed with women’s voices, ideas, and experiences—a perfect way to commemorate 3 years of saying it at last. Bring your own cake!

Episode 131: Speaking in Sacrament Meeting | The Susan Edition Mar 28, 2023

It sounds simple to say I must love my neighbor as I love myself, but what does that really look like? We have an unfaltering example in Jesus, whose works offered a living reflection of his teachings about the nature of God. The scriptures may be full of unclear translations, contradictory ideas, metaphors that have lost meaning over time, and laws that have lapsed. But Christ’s actions show clearly who God is, and how God loves. In episode 131, Cynthia and Susan discuss the real challenge of discipleship: following Jesus’ example of compassion.

Episode 130: Speaking in Sacrament Meeting | The Cynthia Edition Mar 21, 2023

For ALSSI listeners, it’ll be no surprise that when Cynthia was asked to speak on the subject of atonement, she pivoted to an exploration of grace. In Episode 130, ideas from her talk inspire a conversation about the relationship between those two words, as well as salvation and healing. Do Latter-day Saints believe in grace? Or are we mostly just confused by it? As we study the New Testament together, what might change if our discussion at church shifted to focus more on the radical grace exemplified in Jesus’ ministry and teachings?

Episode 129: Three Sisters, Three Experiences | A Conversation with Cynthia, Patricia, and Carolyn Mar 14, 2023

It’s easy to assume that when we’re all in the same room, we’re hearing, seeing, and experiencing the same things. But this discussion between three sisters shows that living in the same house, growing up in the same family, and attending the same ward and church activities carries no such guarantee. In Episode 129, Cynthia is joined by her two sisters for a conversation about how even Latter-day Saint women who share many commonalities are not having the same experiences in life or at church. It’s an episode about how paths diverge and every journey with faith is a personal one.

Episode 128: It's Not Easy—A Conversation about Having Hard Conversations | with C.A. Larson Mar 07, 2023

Latter-day Saint women in a liminal faith space may find it’s not easy to know what to say, or to whom they can say it. It can feel scary to share non-traditional thoughts with the people closest to us—a husband or partner, a parent, close friend, or child—or discuss shifts we experience in foundational aspects of our church or spiritual lives. In Episode 128, Cynthia and Susan are joined by therapist C.A. Larson for a conversation about having these hard conversations.

Episode 127: Who Said You Could Wear That? Feb 28, 2023

Cultural taboos and prohibitions can feel etched in stone for many Latter-day Saint women. Even in things so personal as what to wear to church, we may feel little room to deviate from what’s expected. In Episode 127, Cynthia and Susan discuss choices they each make that are counter to the cultural norm. They’re small things, but in a church where it can feel like there are no small things, learning to ignore raised eyebrows and give yourself permission can pay big mental and spiritual dividends.

Episode 126: What About Tithing? Feb 21, 2023

Got thoughts about tithing? This may be the episode you’ve been waiting for! There’s a lot of emotion tied up at the intersection of money, obedience, temple recommends, and blessings. And what about charitable giving? How is tithing the same as paying to a charity that benefits others? How is tithing different? In Episode 126, Cynthia and Susan explore a diversity of ideas and personal experiences shared by listeners around this complicated topic.

Episode 125: Women Reading Scripture—A Reflection on Voices Rising | A Conversation with Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi Feb 14, 2023

Because the scriptures have been written, translated, interpreted, and most often taught by men, it’s not surprising many women don’t feel empowered to venture beyond the understanding we’ve received at church. Women’s influence and involvement in the scriptural narrative has been minimized too, leaving only a few female characters with little detail about them. Their role is often glossed over or skipped altogether in our Sunday talks and curriculum. In Episode 125, Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation urging Latter-day Saint women to reclaim the scriptures for ourselves in every way.

Episode 124: The Holy Work of Activism—A Conversation with Jody England Hansen Feb 07, 2023

How does your religion influence your activism? And how does your activism influence your personal religious practice? For Jody England Hansen, there’s never been a boundary between “What kind of member of the Church are you?” and “What kind of member of the world are you?” She writes,“If you see a need, an injustice, and there is something you can do about it, Jesus calls you to do it.” Episode 124 is a conversation about showing up to advocate for and support others, wherever, whenever, and however we feel called.

Episode 123: Reimagining Church Jan 31, 2023

For some Latter-day Saints, our church services are feeling a little stale. Maybe even boring? If you got a seat on the Imagination Committee, what ideas would you bring for reimagining Sunday worship? How could we make the time we spend meeting together in our wards better? What would inspire and recharge you? What do you wish you might see, hear, sing, say, or do? Where’s your holy envy sitting on Sundays?

Episode 122—BONUS: More about Faith Crisis, with Becky Edwards Jan 27, 2023

In this bonus episode, Becky shares a few more personal insights about faith journeying. Spoiler: growth is always a good thing.

Episode 121: What About Faith Crisis? A Conversation with Becky Edwards Jan 24, 2023

You may or may not call it a faith crisis, but many Latter-day Saints experience a seismic shift at some point that calls into question the faith we thought was settled. Suddenly we no longer feel sure about things to which we used to testify wholeheartedly. Though individuals experience the details differently, sudden uncertainty about foundational beliefs can feel frightening, isolating, even hopeless. In this episode, Becky Edwards joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion about moving and growing through the destabilization of ‘faith crisis.’

Episode 120: Not Of the World? Not So Fast! Jan 17, 2023

Latter-day Saints talk a lot about the wicked world: how it’s getting more wicked, how it’s a sign of the last days, how we’re supposed to be in but not of it, how we should protect our families and fortify our homes against it. But what do we mean when we talk disparagingly about it? What are we gaining collectively from embracing a distrust of, or desire to disengage from, the world? And could there be unintended consequences from consistently highlighting a fearful view?

Episode 119, BONUS: Patriarchy as Sin—More Conversation with Kathryn Knight Sonntag Dec 13, 2022

“The power struggle that’s inherent in this telestial sphere between men and women is the source of all of our pain…” In this short bonus, Kathryn joins Cynthia and Susan to explore a few more ideas about patriarchy. Could it stand in the way of women and men realizing our full potential?

Episode 118: BONUS—Living at the Edge of Inside, featuring Jeralee Renshaw Nov 22, 2022

"While there are things I love about the organization, and most especially the people and community, I also see the messiness, the warts, and I see some very real pain and damage in it all. And so here I am today, living at the edge of inside." In this special bonus, Jeralee reflects on her faith journey and the lessons she's learning along the way, sharing an adaptation of her presentation from the ALSSI Fall Gathering, October 2022.

Episode 117: When Women Are The Problem Oct 25, 2022

Are women complicit in their own marginalization within the Church? In their Season 5 finale episode, Cynthia and Susan unpack the idea of complicity, and some obstacles to overcoming it. It’s an itchy topic with no easy answers. But the real focus of the conversation is a call for women to support other women as a necessary first step to change. If we can’t allow for different experiences, and sit with each other in that difference, can we truly love one another?

Episode 116: Meeting Your Feminist Self, Part 2 Oct 21, 2022

In this Part 2 episode, more Latter-day Saint women share stories of personal feminist awakenings. It's hard to shake the unsettling realizations once we begin to see through a feminist lens at church. For these episodes, Cynthia and Susan asked listeners to talk about their feminist journeys. Do you think about things today the same way you did 5 or 10 years ago? If not, what has led you to see things differently? And what are the implications for your faith life going forward?

Episode 115: Meeting Your Feminist Self, Part 1 Oct 18, 2022

There are probably as many versions of a feminist awakening as there are feminists. Some have always felt aware of the disparity between men’s and women’s experiences and opportunities. For others, the awareness has come more recently. Either way, it’s hard to shake the unsettling realizations once we begin to see through a feminist lens at church. For this episode, Cynthia and Susan asked listeners to talk about their personal feminist journeys. Do you think about things today the same way you did 5 or 10 years ago? If not, what has led you to see things differently? And what are the implications for your faith life going forward?

Episode 114: This Is Your Brain On Church—a Conversation with Jill Evans Opdahl Oct 11, 2022

Language is powerful. The words and phrases we use repetitively in church create well-worn pathways in our brains. Each time we think in a certain way, practice a certain task, or feel a certain emotion we strengthen and grow that pathway, making it easier for our subconscious to find again and again. Whether it’s hearing male pronouns associated with deity or studying scriptural records written by and about men, without conscious effort there’s a good chance we’re reinforcing ideas about gender roles every time we sit through a lesson, hear a talk, or sing a hymn. In this conversation, Jill Evans Opdahl joins Cynthia and Susan to talk about the implications of “our brains on church,” and consider the challenges and rewards of adding new pathways to our old ways of thinking.

Episode 113: Revisiting the Mother Tree — A Conversation with Kathryn Knight Sonntag Oct 04, 2022

In her book, The Mother Tree: Discovering the Love and Wisdom of Our Divine Mother, author Kathryn Knight Sonntag wrote, “Further exploration of the Mother is part of the unfolding Restoration in our hearts.” Today many women are feeling led to explore the divine feminine more deeply, or for the first time, in an effort to erase the separation that has existed between Latter-day Saints and our Heavenly Mother. In Episode 113, Kathryn shares insights and ideas gleaned from her personal research and experiences. It's a conversation about creating wholeness and healing the mother wound in our theology.

Episode 112: What About Purity Culture? Sep 27, 2022

What does it mean to a Latter-day Saint young woman when she hears that virtue and chastity are ‘most dear and precious above all things?’ Purity Culture is a movement built on teachings of sexual abstinence before marriage, with the insidious slant that girls and women are responsible for not only their own purity, but that of boys and men. Young women face strict dress codes and years of lessons about how to avoid tempting or distracting. Some even internalize a message that's difficult to overcome: a woman’s personal worth is linked to her sexual purity. In Episode 112, therapist Colette Dalton joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about changing the conversation. How might the Church teach chastity in ways that promote sexual health and spiritual well-being throughout our lives?

Episode 111: Raising Healthy Kids in the Church—A Conversation with Michelle Larson Sep 20, 2022

For women who have experienced some kind of faith shift or feminist awakening, how to raise children in the Church may become a perplexing question. We may want something different from the messaging and experiences—cultural or religious—we grew up with. We may want a more expansive idea of God than is presented in correlated materials. We may hold more nuanced views than some official positions. We may wonder how to answer questions about issues to which we don’t really have answers ourselves. In episode 111, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Michelle Larson who assures us all parents get some things wrong, but we also get many right. It’s an exploration of ideas for finding personal approaches that best fit each family.

Episode 110: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff—Repentance Edition Sep 13, 2022

How do you think about repentance? Is it a way to become pure? A way to change direction? A way to accept responsibility for harm we’ve caused ourselves or others? And how do you feel about an organization that doesn’t apologize? Can we make amends without acknowledging harm? Repentance is something we hear and talk a lot about at church, but we don’t all think about it the same way. In Episode 110, Cynthia and Susan share personal ideas about repentance, and discuss whether or not Latter-day Saints believe our own stuff when it comes to the second fundamental principle of the gospel.

Episode 109: BONUS—A Few More Thoughts About Sealings Sep 09, 2022

In this short bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan share a few more listeners' experiences and feelings about temple sealings and the policies around them. Spoiler: It's complicated.

Episode 108: What About Sealings? Sep 06, 2022

Disparity in the Church’s sealing policies for men and women is something many members never think about until their life experience reveals it in some way. The truth is, a variety of complex real-life scenarios may change the idea of sealing from a joyful eternal prospect to a painful eternal sentence for some Latter-day Saint women. If you are widowed, divorced, remarried, or single, your sealing options as a woman are limited, and you have little to no power in the process of determining what’s right for you. In this episode, ALSSI listeners share their personal experiences with the Church’s sealing policies, and the complex emotions that arise as a result of living within these limitations.

Episode 107: In Search of Self — A Conversation with C.A. Larson Aug 30, 2022

Having learned about her well-defined role as a wife and mother from the time she is a young girl, when and how does a Latter-day Saint woman develop an understanding of who she is as an individual? Over time, not living in alignment with our true self is exhausting, and may be detrimental to health and happiness. ‘Finding yourself’ may sound cliché, but self-discovery is key to making choices about our life and identity that will lead to personal fulfillment. Therapist C.A. Larson joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about some of the unique challenges LDS women may face in our search for Self.

Episode 106: What About Blessings? Part 2 Aug 23, 2022

‘Blessing’ is a catch-all word. From prosperity gospel to the laying on of hands, it is used to describe a transactional approach to our relationship with God: we do something and believe we are ‘blessed’ as a result. But when we try to connect those specific dots in our lives, things can get tricky. Such a transactional view may challenge our faith as often as it affirms it. In this follow-up conversation, Cynthia and Susan take another look at some complicated ways Latter-day Saints perceive, experience, and express the idea of blessing.

Episode 105: The Process of Staying...A Few More Thoughts—BONUS Aug 19, 2022

In this short bonus episode, Susan shares “Circles of Light,” the essay in which the phrase ‘I’m in the process of staying’ originated.

Episode 104: The Process of Staying Aug 16, 2022

“Why do you stay? How do you stay?” Because the conversations on this podcast often highlight problems Latter-day Saint women have observed or experienced in their church lives, these questions come up a lot. Every so often, it’s helpful to check in with oneself for the current answers. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss the process of staying: what that process looks like for them, and why they each continue to find value engaging with it today.

Episode 103: What About Missions? A Conversation with Apple Lanman Aug 09, 2022

There’s a lot of pressure around missions in the Church. From the time they are very young, our children hear the clear expectation that they will serve. But the decision to serve, the realities of mission life, the possibility of returning home early, and the pressure to make big life decisions soon after a mission ends, can all weigh heavily on young Latter-day Saints and their families. “The reality of mission life both pre- and post-mission is hard!” says therapist Apple Lanman, who joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion of some of the complexities—personal, family, cultural, and institutional—surrounding this celebrated rite of passage.

Episode 102: Did It Ever Matter? Aug 02, 2022

There’s a tension in our church between things that change and things that some members consider to be unchangeable. It can be hard to distinguish between the two, and our history would suggest that more things are probably changeable than we think. Figuring out what matters, why it does, and when that may change is an ongoing process, personally and institutionally. To answer those questions for ourselves, we must approach practices and programs in a way that helps us uncover spiritual meaning in them—or sometimes not. In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan talk about some specific changes they’ve experienced during their church lives, and ask the question: Did that ever matter?

Episode 101: Still Ultimate, Still a Big Deal—BONUS Jul 29, 2022

In this short bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan say a little bit more about the temple—a topic so big, there will always be more to say.

Episode 100: The Ultimate Big Deal, Part 3 Jul 26, 2022

For our 100th episode, what could be more fitting than a discussion about the temple? It’s the centerpiece of Latter-day Saint worship members believe sets our church apart from all others. Many women can trace their most sacred experiences to it, but for others—from the wording to the rituals—attending the temple causes deep unease. Having complicated feelings about something so reverenced can be a struggle to admit, even to oneself. In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan highlight the emotions and experiences of women who generously shared their hearts with us on this difficult topic.

Episode 099: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff—Heavenly Mother Edition Jul 19, 2022

Who we pray to and how we envision God is personal, but the Church organization can and does limit our collective discourse about Heavenly Mother. Many feminists have been disciplined for speaking and writing publicly about Her. What does this silencing say about the importance of the doctrine? And is an unwillingness to allow deeper engagement with the feminine divine in our teaching and worship indicative of the organization’s regard for women generally? Why don’t we seem to believe our own stuff about one of the most unique—and for many compelling—aspects of our theology?

Episode 098: The Invisible Woman Jul 12, 2022

The term ‘invisible woman’ refers to the feeling many women have that they lose social value as their ability to attract the male gaze fades with age. But do older women disappear in church, as well as in society? And how might a woman’s spirituality change as she moves through her second half of life? Cynthia and Susan explore their own experiences and those of listeners in this conversation about the impact of aging on women’s church lives and personal faith.

Episode 097: Christ Chose Women Jul 05, 2022

When one thinks about the events of Jesus’ life and ministry, it’s natural to think about women. The Bible shows us a man whose inclusion of women was radical within its cultural context. Yet for most of history, his namesake religion has been marked by near-total domination of the patriarchy. What happened? Greg Prince once asked Chieko Okazaki a question that bears repeating: “…where do we need to go to get women in the Church where He wants them to be?” In this episode Cynthia and Susan pose that question again in a conversation shining light on a few of the women hidden in plain sight at Christianity’s beginnings.

Episode 096: The God of All of Us Jun 28, 2022

If you grow up in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is God a man, a woman, or both? It’s a complication we bump up against a lot, if only indirectly, in our religion where God is Heavenly Father, but is also one of a pair of Heavenly Parents. Some members don’t seem to notice the absence of the divine feminine in our collective dialogue and worship, while some feel it acutely and yearn for more. But as a church we don’t talk about it, so the wrestle with questions is often a private one. In this episode, Susan shares an essay exploring her thoughts and experiences at the intersection of God and gender, then Cynthia joins to add her own insights and ideas. It’s a conversation inviting each of us to examine the origins and development of our personal understanding of God.

Episode 095: Everyone Back to Church—BONUS Jun 23, 2022

In this brief bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss some effects of the pandemic on their own faith and church lives.

Episode 094: Everyone Back to Church...Maybe? Jun 21, 2022

The pandemic that interrupted attendance for all members forced an unprecedented change in our personal church habits and activity. It blurred the distinction between work, education, church, and family lives. Many saw the shift to “home-based, church-supported” as a prophetic precursor to this change, and leaned into the opportunity presented by it. For some normal attendance has now resumed, while others are choosing to reengage differently in church activity going forward. For this episode, Cynthia and Susan asked women how the pandemic had affected their personal faith journey and relationship with the Church. What changed? What didn’t? And what opportunities for personal and institutional growth might we find by examining our individual and collective experience?

Episode 093: How To Be a Smart Mouth Jun 14, 2022

How we communicate with other Church members can be as important as what we’re trying to say. Women are at a disadvantage with less freedom and opportunity to speak truth to those in authority. Even when we do get the floor, sometimes things as innocuous as pitch, accent, and personal style determine whether we’re listened to or dismissed. In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan explore ideas and experiences around LDS women speaking up in ways that will be heard.

Episode 092: In Their Image—A Conversation with Caitlin Connolly Jun 07, 2022

In this conversation, artist Caitlin Connolly talks about her experience manifesting the unseen “in large scale and present” in her painting, In Their Image. It’s a conversation about a divine mother we’ve been missing, and daring to bring her into existence for ourselves. “I have found that what I am trying to learn about womanhood…and the divine feminine…has come through women. And will continue to. If we are brave enough to get uncomfortable and do that work.”

Episode 091: What Women Don't Get In Our Church May 31, 2022

“If history shows that patriarchy is bad for women, and data shows that girls and women fare better when they can see themselves at every level of leadership in our churches, schools, and societies…why do LDS women and men continue to cling to old ideas that deny history and data?” On this episode, Cynthis poses this question and others in a discussion detailing the list of possible opportunities for service and representation from which women are excluded in our church.

Episode 090: What About Sad Heaven? May 24, 2022

What do you envision when you think about a next life? Happiness? Answers? Judgment? Question marks? There are as many images of the afterlife as there are people to imagine it. But for some Latter-day Saints, the official picture painted at church doesn’t feel entirely hopeful or comforting. To kick off Season 5, Cynthia and Susan unpack the idea of “sad heaven,” an eternity spent with empty chairs where some of the people we love most should be.

Episode 089—BONUS: A Little More About Metaphor...and Stuff Apr 26, 2022

In Episode 84, Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi joined us for a conversation about how we approach scripture. How much is literal? How much is metaphor? This bonus episode contains additional insights from Kajsa focusing on a specific Old Testament story. It's an illustration of how considering the origin and larger context of a specific text can inform the ways we think about it now.

Episode 088: BONUS—In Response to GC: More Real Talk Around Motherhood Apr 12, 2022

We received numerous requests for our thoughts around some of the messages delivered at General Conference. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and guest Sherry Macnab get real about their experiences raising LGBTQ kids. It's a vulnerable conversation about the perils of bringing up any kids in a church where they will almost certainly be exposed to some harmful messages.

Episode 087: Who's Stopping You? Mar 22, 2022

Who's stopping you? From doing what you want to do, believing what you want to believe, praying how you want to pray, feeling how you want to feel about a thing, or making a choice you want to make…who’s stopping you really? In this season finale episode, Cynthia and Susan revisit the theme of personal spiritual empowerment, share wisdom from listeners, and add a P.S. to their conversations from Season 4.

Episode 086: But What Do I Believe? Mar 15, 2022

What do we believe? In 1842, Joseph Smith penned 13 answers to that question, explaining the basic doctrines and practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We all know his Articles of Faith. But there's a deeper question that sits at the center of each woman's faith life: What do I believe? Lyric Montgomery Kinard joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion about personal vs. institutional articles of faith. Though they may change with our life experience, is there value in not just thoughtful consideration of our own beliefs, but actually writing the answers to that question down for ourselves?

Episode 085: Talking Across the Fence Mar 08, 2022

Sometimes it can be hard to talk with other Latter-day Saints about church things on which we don't agree, even if we have an otherwise close relationship. Is it possible to understand a person whose experiences have been very different from our own? Jeralee Renshaw joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss practical approaches for handling tricky topics in ways that can create space for a diversity of ideas and experiences.

Episode 084: Do I Literally Have to Believe That? Mar 01, 2022

Whether it's a scripture story or symbolism we encounter elsewhere, it can sometimes be difficult to separate the literal from the metaphorical at church, especially if our personal interpretation seems at odds with that of many other members. But what if we just can't 'believe' something the way it's being presented on the surface? Can we become comfortable setting aside narratives that no longer serve us to approach texts, language or ideas we can't make sense of literally in ways that help us draw personal meaning from them?

Episode 083: Making Peace Feb 22, 2022

Where can we turn for peace? When we're trying to find it, peace can feel elusive. But can we learn to create it for ourselves? What about when we're experiencing big changes in our lives, our relationships, or our faith? In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan discuss ideas, tools, and tactics for taking more ownership of our personal peace.

Episode 082: Holy Discomfort Feb 15, 2022

We experience all kinds of discomfort across a lifetime, but how can we know when we're in the type of liminal space that may have the potential to lead to big growth? Can we find clues about where to go next in the messages our minds and bodies are sending us? And is it possible to ever become okay with feeling uncomfortable? Cynthia and Susan explore the idea of reframing or repurposing some discomfort to make it not only useful, but maybe even holy.

Episode 081: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff—Revelation Edition Feb 08, 2022

Revelation is a big word for Latter-day Saints. We use it to describe foundational tenets of our faith like personal revelation, continuing revelation, and prophetic revelation. But have a conversation with other members and you may find you don't think about revelation in exactly the same ways. What kind of revelation do you rely on most, and why? Cynthia and Susan discuss this question and others in a conversation about how revelation functions in their faith lives, and how learning to trust themselves has been important in an evolving relationship with this complex idea.

Episode 080: When Church Isn't Safe Feb 01, 2022

For a Latter-day Saint woman who has suffered sexual abuse or other trauma, church can feel triggering. If the abuse involved leaders or fellow members, finding a path to healing within her church community may be even more difficult. Bergen Hyde joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss situations and experiences that can make church unsafe. It's an emotional, enlightening glimpse at some of the incredible burdens we may not realize many vulnerable sisters struggle to carry in the seats beside us.

Episode 079: Real Talk Around Motherhood Jan 25, 2022

Helping kids navigate the gap between a quickly changing world and a slow-to-change church is a real challenge, especially if many answers aren't clear cut for a woman herself. Sherry Macnab joins Cynthia and Susan for an honest conversation about their experiences as Latter-day Saint mothers. The feelings, pressures, desires, questions, and decisions—it's all fair game in this frank discussion between 3 friends who each took the Church's prescribed path into marriage and motherhood, and want to talk about those choices now.

Episode 078: Are You There God? It's Us, Cynthia and Susan Jan 18, 2022

How do you envision God? Or do you think of Heavenly Parents? How much control do you believe They have over what happens to us on earth? These are questions we may not spend much time thinking about until old ideas stop working. Being forced outside a God-box can be scary, painful, liberating, faith saving—it's different for everyone, and the answers may change with our experiences. The good news is, we're spiritually equipped to ask the big questions for ourselves, and then to trust the answers we receive.

Episode 077: I'm Not a Mother, But I'm Enough Jan 11, 2022

Latter-day Saint women hear motherhood described as their highest, holiest calling from the time they are young girls. But not all girls grow up to be mothers. Some don't get the opportunity to have children, and some don't choose to. Is there a place in our doctrine, our teachings, or our culture for women to just be...women? Whole, complete, fulfilled, and enough, with no specific role spelled out for them but the one they choose to create for themselves? Cristall Harper joins us to reflect on her journey, without children in a church that assumes—even insists—women desire motherhood.

Episode 076: Who Said You Could Do That? (Grown Women Don't Need Permission.) Jan 04, 2022

Who has authority over your relationship with God? Who has control over your spiritual life? And how do you approach the Divine authentically, and for yourself, when you've spent your life being handed a script for that? The answers may seem obvious to some, yet many Latter-day Saint women feel they lack permission to step outside the language and practices they've been taught, to seek God in new ways when their old ways come up short. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss claiming spiritual authority to rebuild their personal faith foundations.

Episode 075: Ask Us Anything! Dec 28, 2021

We get asked a lot of questions, but one thing we knew from the outset of the ALSSI project was it couldn't be about answer-giving. The kinds of questions to build a podcast around don't have simple answers. Of course, we think a lot about all of your questions, as well as our own. So in this episode, we're taking a stab at some listener questions and offering our personal answers. (Your answers may vary, and ours could change tomorrow too.)

Episode 074: The Parable of the Laborers—Grace in Action Dec 21, 2021

What is it about God's generosity that's so hard to trust? In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss The Parable of the Laborers, in which Jesus turns the idea of fairness on its head with a story that disregards the rules we insist are so important. It's a reminder that the kingdom of heaven runs on grace, and all our careful scorekeeping and human expectations of scarcity will someday be confounded by God's abundance, so we may as well get used to it.

Episode 073: Acknowledging the Elephant: A Conversation About Polygamy with The Faithful Feminists Dec 14, 2021

If you ask a Latter-day Saint woman what she keeps on her metaphorical faith "shelf," there's a good chance polygamy will be there. It's largely unacknowledged in our current church conversations and teachings, a historical wound that continues to fester in our doctrine, making it easier to ignore than to heal. Many friends and family members can't even share their true feelings about it with each other. But what are the consequences of our silence around polygamy? How long will we be able to collectively carry an enormous weight we never allow ourselves to set down?

Episode 072: Doing is Believing Dec 07, 2021

In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan explore belief and behavior in an attempt to answer a listener's question, "Are you women true believers?" There are a lot of markers members use to figure out where other members sit on the spectrum of testimony and church engagement. We judge not just beliefs, but the language used to express them. But if we really must vet each other's faith, a better question might be, "How does being a member of the Church change the way you live?"

Episode 071: The Scent of Resentment Nov 30, 2021

Resentments form when we get angry at a person, institution, or situation. For many Latter-day Saint women, denying themselves and putting others first is a default setting. But when we live to please others, we often end up pleasing no one—even ourselves. As a follow up to Episode 65 on healthy boundaries, C.A. Larson joins us for a conversation about resentments. Understanding what they are and why we have them can help us set down the ones we carry, and avoid picking up new ones.

Episode 070: What About Worthiness? Nov 23, 2021

If you asked a Church member for a short list of words or ideas that are central to our lives as Latter-day Saints, there's a good chance worthiness would be on the list. We talk about worthiness, we teach about it, we speculate about it in others, we answer a list of questions to certify it in ourselves. But what does it really mean? Could changing the way we think about worthiness improve our ability to share God's love with others and experience it for ourselves?

Episode 069: But She's Got a Great Personality! Nov 16, 2021

We're all wired differently, and our personality has an impact on our experiences. Understanding the self we bring to church may help us better understand the experiences we have there. Identifying underlying differences can also help us manage our expectations in relationships, and can be an empathy tool for interacting with people around us. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Jana Spangler for a talk about what makes individuals tick, and specific ways those differences may matter in our lives as Latter-day Saints.

Episode 068: To Ordain or Not To Ordain? That Isn't the Only Question. Nov 09, 2021

Perhaps nothing has a greater impact on a woman's experience in our church organization than the fact that she does not and can not hold the Priesthood. Do Latter-day Saint women need ordination? Do they want it? While the answers to these questions may not be clear, what is clear is that many women feel little space to discuss their true feelings about the nebulous messaging we receive around power and authority, and our inability to hold and access Priesthood directly. In the Season 4 opener, Cynthia and Susan take a deep breath and wrestle the question of women's ordination.

Episode 067: BONUS—Uncrossed Bridges Redux Oct 05, 2021

In this bonus recut, Cynthia and Susan revisit a Season 1 conversation about the challenge of building bridges for the young women of today to cross into adult lives of personal and spiritual fulfillment as Latter-day Saints. Will they be willing to seek a faith home within the same patriarchal church structure their mothers and grandmothers have inhabited? For now, the bridges these two mothers have built don't seem to lead to a place their daughters want to go.

Episode 066: Wrap Party! Aug 31, 2021

Our episodes may begin the conversation, but every woman in the Church has unique experiences and ideas to contribute, so there's always more to say. In this season finale, Cynthia and Susan revisit Season 3 podcast topics to share a few post-recording thoughts, ideas, and insights that have come up through continued conversation and listener feedback.

Episode 065: Healthy Boundaries, Healthy Women Aug 24, 2021

Latter-day Saint women are raised with clear expectations about the ideal LDS woman's life. But how do you fully develop a sense of self when you're taught from the time you're young exactly what your role should be in your family, church, and world? Without a self, there can be no boundaries. Without boundaries, we give away our choices. In this episode, therapist C.A. Larson shares thoughts about the importance of finding the self and caring for it by establishing healthy boundaries.

Episode 064: Custom Fit Faith Aug 17, 2021

We all take a 'cafeteria' approach to our religion to some extent, but how much customization is really okay? As members of the Church, we are asked to obey commandments, but sometimes face pressure to accept policies and culture as binding too. How can we determine which parts are essential? How can we reap the greatest spiritual benefit from our church engagement? In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss approaching personal decisions about what to keep, and what it may be time to let go.

Episode 063: Let's Talk About Ministering Aug 10, 2021

Has what was intended to be a "holier" approach to watching over each other elevated our game, or fallen flat? The switch to the Ministering program left a lot of us wondering exactly what it is we're supposed to be doing. We were good at meals and messages, but we're not so comfortable meeting people where they are, and just being there with them. In this episode, Sue Bergin shares insights in a conversation about learning new and better ways to provide support to each other with empathy, compassion, and love.

Episode 062: When is Enough Enough? Aug 03, 2021

In the story of the widow's mite, Jesus directs our attention to a woman who gives everything she has, assuring us that her small offering is more than enough. But how are we meant to think about our own offerings in the context of this story? How much do we owe? And how can we know when we have we given enough of our time, talents, energy, and resources? Cynthia and Susan discuss the story of this woman's choice, and Jesus' reaction to it, in a conversation about giving—and being—enough.

Episode 061: Upset Facebook Commenter Jul 27, 2021

Conversations on social media are rarely substantive, but sometimes a comment can provide a good opening to a larger discussion. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan unpack a comment made on a recent ALSSI post that seemed to ruffle a few feathers. It's a discussion about unhelpful ways Latter-day Saints sometimes respond to each other, and how we might all benefit from retiring the tired scripts members have relied on for too long in an effort to keep each other in line.

Episode 060: What About Blessings? Jul 20, 2021

Whether faith promoting or fraught, the idea of being blessed figures prominently in Latter-day Saint teachings. Common use of words like 'earning' and 'qualifying' can make it hard not to view blessings as transactional. How can we make sense of blessings we receive—or those we don't? What is our part in obtaining specific outcomes and righteous desires? Can our faithful actions influence God's will? In this discussion, Cynthia and Susan attempt to find a little peace on a sticky topic.

Episode 059: Speaking Up Jul 13, 2021

Many Latter-day Saint women don't feel at liberty to talk about their challenges at church. Church history, policy, doctrine, or culture, our personal and family experiences, the ebb and flow of our faith, unexpected doubt or uncertainty—these things can create burdens we carry silently, made heavier by accompanying feelings of guilt, loneliness, unworthiness or shame. In this episode, Susan shares thoughts about her own journey into silence—and thankfully out again—as a woman in the LDS Church.

Episode 058: Being a Single Woman in a Married-with-Children Church Jul 06, 2021

It's hard to ignore the fact that our church is heavily focused on the family. From the time we're young, Latter-day Saint girls are taught to expect and prepare for marriage and children as the centerpiece of our lives. And yet the majority of members worldwide are single. In this conversation, we're joined by our friend Mara to discuss some challenges of engaging in a church community where so much teaching and activity is geared toward one very specific ideal.

Episode 057: The Color of Nuance Jun 29, 2021

"Would you feel the same way if you were someone else, in a different place, time, or situation?" It's a great question, the kind of thought exercise we're rarely encouraged to engage in at church. This episode explores nuance—increased complexity in the ways we think about things. How much richer might our discussions be if we were willing to give space for the expression of a true diversity of thought and experience? How much might our shared understanding increase? And can we ever become comfortable approaching even our most trusted old ideas in new ways?

Episode 056: Be Brave Like Blaire Jun 22, 2021

As members of the body of Christ, we are called to join Jesus in atoning—to take on the shape of one another's pain. It's a call to brave and unreserved love, a message central to the book, "Queer Mormon Theology: An Introduction." In this episode, philosopher/author Blaire Ostler joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion of everything from the atonement to eternity, with plenty of conversational side-trips along the way. Can queerness and Mormon-ness coexist? In her beautiful theological framing, Blaire shows us they not only can, they naturally do.

Episode 055: You Have a Friend in Me Jun 15, 2021

Why does having friends at church feel so important? Feeling known is part of feeling like you belong, but finding friends in a ward with whom you can be yourself isn't always easy. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan talk about friendship, and how our relationships with the members with whom we worship and serve can impact not only our church experience, but our personal and family happiness and spiritual well-being.

Episode 054: Being Like Mother Eve Jun 08, 2021

President Russell M. Nelson has encouraged the women of the Church to “have the courage and vision of Mother Eve.” It’s a great thought, but what does it mean? What would it look like for Latter-day Saint women to follow Eve’s example in their own lives? Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi shares empowering insights and ideas inspired by this phrase in a discussion of her essay, 4th Wave Feminism and ‘Being Like Mother Eve.’

Episode 053: We're Good at Showing People the Door Jun 01, 2021

It's a question we ask ourselves all the time: Why do so many Latter-day Saints—leaders and members—seem to prefer nudging people to walk away from our community over doing the work of love? Mormons don't generally shy away from hard work, and we're devoted to showing our love for God. But "love" sometimes ends up in derisive air quotes in our collective discourse, rather than genuinely guiding our actions or our hearts. It's hard to understand how a church that bears Jesus' name struggles to make room for everyone.

Episode 052: What About Queer LDS Women? May 25, 2021

Some high-profile gay men are helping Latter-day Saints grow our collective understanding by sharing their perspectives and experiences through books and podcasts, but—what about queer LDS women? Isn't it time we all heard more about their lives and journeys? In this episode, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Colette Dalton, LCSW, for a glimpse of her personal path and a discussion about some of the unique challenges for LGBTQ women in the Church.

Episode 051: The Ultimate Big Deal, Part 2 May 18, 2021

The temple is a topic around which many Latter-day Saints tiptoe, a complicated centerpiece of our religious practices. It is sacred, but also secret. It is of paramount importance, but participation in its ordinances requires a recommend not all members receive. It unites families, but can also divide them. In this second discussion, Cynthia and Susan unpack a few ideas and symbols from the temple, including the one way it impacts the lives of endowed members directly every day—garments.

Episode 050: Mirror, Mirror, On the Wall May 11, 2021

Body image is complicated for many women, but for Latter-day Saints, it can feel particularly fraught. Our approaches to teaching about modesty and sexuality, coupled with a strong cultural ideal surrounding women's roles, can add up to impossible expectations with damaging results. For this conversation, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Hannah Hinckley and Jessica Nielson, who share experiences and messaging they internalized growing up in the Church, and how it impacted them. It's a discussion about reclaiming our bodies—and our thinking about them.

Episode 049: Upset Instagram Follower May 04, 2021

If you're going to start a women's podcast, you'd better come prepared with a thick skin. Social media is a big part of the At Last She Said It project. Amplifying women's voices, ideas, experiences and concerns requires interacting with a lot of women. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan respond to one specific social media comment that somehow pushed too many buttons to ignore. It's a perfect illustration of the kind of silencing that inspired the podcast to begin with.

Episode 048: Let's Talk About Emma Apr 27, 2021

Historian Shantel Gardner joins us for a conversation about the legendary Emma Smith. When Moroni prophesied that Joseph's name "should be both good and evil spoken of among all people," the angel may as well have been talking about Joseph's wife. Why have Latter-day Saints had a conflicted relationship with Emma through the years? Is that changing? In this episode, we dig a little deeper into the real and complex woman whose life continues to inspire a diversity of opinions in members of the church she helped create.

Episode 047: For the Men in the Room Apr 20, 2021

In the first episode of Season 3, Cynthia and Susan discuss things they'd like the men at church to better understand about the experiences of Latter-day Saint women. How might our brothers—whether in leadership positions, or just in the pews—show increased empathy, amplify women's voices, and encourage the creative thinking required to continue expanding our opportunities and influence at church?

Episode 046: BONUS—In Search of a Larger God Mar 30, 2021

It can be terrifying to take the metaphorical lid off the box that holds everything you think you know about God. What do you do when you outgrow your old ideas? Can you trust the hopeful whisperings of your own heart if those whisperings also spark fear? In this bonus episode, Susan shares the journey that led her, as a Latter-day Saint woman, to reexamine and move beyond her previous answers in pursuit of questions that have expanded her faith.

Episode 045: BONUS—Looking Back and Thinking Ahead Mar 09, 2021

What do we know, 2 seasons into this podcast? One thing seems certain—we're not the only women having the thoughts, feelings, ideas and experiences that inspired us to create the At Last She Said It project. More women are joining the conversation every day. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan share some listeners' stories and feedback, and talk a bit about the road ahead.

Episode 044: Am I Discipling? Feb 16, 2021

In the Season 2 finale, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss the ongoing love lessons they're learning as they try—more successfully some days than others—to keep following Jesus as the focus of their faith lives.

Episode 043: Women Are Not Switzerland Feb 09, 2021

From the time we are young girls, women are socialized to keep a calm exterior. It's an unhealthy expectation, since we experience the full range of human emotion. In the Church and in the world, an angry man is perceived as being tough or powerful, but an angry woman earns a much less positive label. For Latter-day Saint women, meekness, niceness, and peace-keeping are valued traits. Being sad is okay, but being furious is not. In Episode 43, a guest shares her insights into the lack of space many women feel for the full expression of their emotions—even within themselves. Then Cynthia and Susan take a deep dive on women and anger.

Episode 042: When the Wheels Come Off Feb 02, 2021

You may feel sure about a lot of things, but what if one day you reach for your faith and find the certainty that has always given you comfort is not where you thought it was? When foundational ideas or beliefs suddenly go missing for you or a loved one, it can feel like the ground has been pulled out from under you. In Episode 42, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Jeralee Renshaw for a discussion about surviving—and thriving—when faith shifts.

Episode 041: Grace is the Antidote Jan 26, 2021

What if there were a remedy that might counteract the difficulties and disappointments of being human, but you weren't quite sure how it worked, or how to get it? Many Latter-day Saints feel certain about the importance of obedience in their lives, but are less settled in their thinking about grace. Cynthia and Susan discuss how and why, for each of them, the idea of grace has come to be foundational to their faith, rather than incidental to it.

Episode 040: Is Obedience the Gasoline, or Is It the Match? Jan 19, 2021

If there's a way to make the word Obedience feel itchier for some of us, it's by combining it with the word Exact. But these words increasingly seem to appear together when we're holding up Latter-day Saint ideals. What does the phrase "exact obedience" mean? Are there different kinds of obedience, and do they all carry the same rewards? In this conversation, Cynthia and Susan explore the principle of obedience as a means to spiritual growth and personal transformation.

Episode 039: What's the Church Up To? Jan 12, 2021

In recent years, it seems the phrases priesthood power and priesthood authority are being used more often in reference to women. But what do those words really mean? Has anything changed, or is this just a new way of describing old ideas? Cynthia and Susan talk about these phrases and the questions and feelings they evoke in a discussion of Pres. Jean B. Bingham's article, Women and Covenant Power.

Episode 038: What's In It For Me? Jan 05, 2021

When you're vocal in your criticism of an organization, people may wonder why you don't leave. But for some women, speaking up about the bad and the good are both important to the process of staying. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss ways the Church leads them to Jesus Christ, and how engagement in their Latter-day Saint communities continues to impact and improve their lives.

Episode 037: If It's Not About the Clothes, What's It About? Dec 29, 2020

Have you ever wished you heard Latter-day Saint women talk about modesty using words like context, intention, body acceptance, sexuality, empowerment, and authenticity? Well here's that conversation! Cynthia and Susan are joined by therapist C.A. Larson for a closer look at the ways we discuss, teach, and practice principles of modesty. How can we approach this topic with our youth in a way that will equip them to make their own good choices?

Episode 036: Reclaiming Women in the Scriptures Dec 22, 2020

Mary was not only responsible for bearing Jesus, but for teaching him to be Jesus—merciful, kind, generous, just, nurturing. The traits that drew people to him were modeled by his mother. Moses became Moses because women acted in faith to save him so he could in turn become a deliverer. The stripling warriors were valiant because their mothers taught them to trust God. On close reading, our scriptures are imbued with a matriarchal power that is often overlooked because we focus on the men in the stories. As Latter-day Saint women, reclaiming these narratives might help us see more clearly the power and potential of our own faith.

Episode 035: Where's the Priesthood in That? Dec 15, 2020

As Latter-day Saint women, our callings sit at the center of our church experience. Where, when, and how we are asked to serve can impact everything from our family's daily schedule to our personal health, spiritual wellbeing or self esteem. It's no wonder our feelings about callings run deep. In this discussion, Cynthia and Susan share their own and listeners' experiences—exploring some of the ways women serve in the church, and imagining other ways we might.

Episode 034: Creativity is Next to Godliness Dec 08, 2020

What does it mean to be a creative person, and what might we learn by daring to pursue our own ideas? Following our curiosity and engaging in the creative process can introduce us to ourselves, and help us glimpse our divine potential. In this episode, Susan and Cynthia discuss the ways creativity enriches their lives, enhances their spiritual connectivity, and nudges them toward greater understanding and personal growth.

Episode 033: Don't Mess With Mothers Dec 01, 2020

As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we can gain helpful insights by listening to the mothers of LGBTQ+ children. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Liz McDonald for a conversation about hard won lessons of this specific mother-love, and what we might learn from the women who share them.

Episode 032: Thanks and Help Nov 24, 2020

Thanks and Help: it's a prayer in just 3 words. Can gratitude move us in the direction of our own healing? Even in a difficult year, we've found plenty to make us marvel. In this episode, Susan shares thoughts on the spiritual benefits of giving mindful thanks, and Cynthia joins to discuss finding connection, awe and wonder in the everyday.

Episode 031: Can I Ask a Question? Nov 17, 2020

Jesus asked 100x more questions than he answered, so questions must have an important role to play in spiritual growth. Why don't they always feel welcome at church? Andrea Forsythe joins us to discuss asking better ones—questions that can help us see ourselves more clearly, and point to ways we might grow in love and understanding as individuals, and as a church.

Episode 030: The Mother Tree Nov 10, 2020

Kathryn Knight Sonntag is a poet and landscape designer whose deep connection to nature is rooted in the Feminine Divine. She shares her poetry and insights gleaned from her personal journey in this conversation about our search for divine identity as Latter-day Saint women.

Episode 029: Ask Me Again Tomorrow Nov 03, 2020

From the time they are young girls, Latter-day Saint women hear a great deal of emphasis placed on motherhood being central to their divine role. Yet there are so many variables that often go unacknowledged in the conversation—desire, opportunity, aptitude, health, finances, to name a few—that truly complicate this general teaching for specific women. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss the ways motherhood adds real and ongoing complexity to their lives, choices, and feelings.

Episode 028: The Other "P" Word Oct 27, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by their friend Holly to discuss the biggest elephant in the room. In what ways might polygamy—past, present, and/or future—affect the lives of Latter-day Saint women today?

Episode 027: It's Not About the Clothes Oct 20, 2020

Cynthia and Susan share their own experiences, as well as listeners' stories, in an introductory exploration of the current Latter-day Saint approach to modesty. What are the possible unintended consequences of the rules, rhetoric, and culture in which we're raising our young women?

Episode 026: Who's in Charge Here? Oct 13, 2020

Dr. Julie Hanks, owner and executive director of Wasatch Family Therapy in Salt Lake City, joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion about authority. How do we navigate the tension we sometimes experience between the general counsel of Church leaders, and the personal revelation we receive as stewards of our own lives?

Episode 025: Mary Kept All These Things Oct 06, 2020

In the first episode of Season 2, Cynthia and Susan consider some of the burdens women carry—in their hearts, their minds, and their bodies—and discuss Mary, the mother of Jesus. She bore an unimaginable weight, but about her remarkable personal journey we have only a few precious clues.

Episode 024: Bonus—Conversations with Jeralee: Finding Mother God, with Carol Lynn Pearson Sep 29, 2020

Jeralee is joined by dear friend Carol Lynn Pearson for a poetry reading and exploration of her new collection, Finding Mother God.

Episode 023: Bonus — Grieving and Growing Sep 15, 2020

In this bonus episode, Cynthia traces some of the growth she has experienced as a result of periods of sustained grieving. Looking back now, she can see how grief turned out to be a teacher she never wanted, and never knew she needed.

Episode 022: Bonus—Dancing With the Patriarchy Aug 25, 2020

As a Latter-day Saint woman, it can be hard to separate the men from the labels that define their place in the Church. In this bonus episode, Susan attempts to untangle and explain her complex relationship with both.

Episode 021: Bonus—At Last We Said It! Aug 04, 2020

In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan wrap up the first season with a top ten list, some listener feedback, and a season two teaser: a call for women to contribute their stories and experiences on upcoming topics.

Episode 020: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff: Agency Edition Jul 21, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by Jeralee for a discussion of agency. If we believe it's a foundational component of the plan, why is it sometimes so hard to honor? Can shifting our thinking about agency improve the way we make decisions for ourselves, and help us better love and support others in their choices?

Episode 019: Just Do the Work Jul 14, 2020

There are as many beliefs, experiences, and ideas as there are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In this episode we meet Heather, a woman who brings her unique brand of enthusiasm, spiritual confidence, and professional expertise to people around the world, doing work that transforms lives as a highly specialized humanitarian aid volunteer.

Episode 018: Standing Up to Fear Jul 07, 2020

How does fear function in our church teachings, culture, conversations, and relationships? If fear doesn't work to change hearts, why do we continue to try it as a motivator? Can it fuel personal growth? A favorite talk by Dieter F. Uchtdorf provides the starting point for a discussion of what we might gain individually and collectively by leading with love rather than fear.

Episode 017: There She Goes...Right Off the Map Jun 30, 2020

Our spiritual ideas, practices, and answers might serve us well for many years—even for a lifetime. We don't need more until we realize we don't have enough. Cynthia and Susan discuss asking new questions, changing old patterns, and finding space to connect with God in unfamiliar ways.

Episode 016: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff: Grace Edition Jun 23, 2020

What exactly does it mean to be saved by grace "after all we can do?" Untangling our own merit from God's love can be confusing. Cynthia and Susan discuss ways their understanding of this principle continues to evolve and influence their spiritual lives.

Episode 015: The Rule Breaking Woman Jun 16, 2020

Sometimes in order to get what we need, we have to make choices that may be at odds with what others deem acceptable or appropriate. Cynthia and Susan discuss the scriptural story of a woman who took a big risk, and received exactly what she was seeking in return.

Episode 014: What Plan of Happiness? Jun 09, 2020

From dark cracks to deep chasms, the path of faith may contain unique obstacles for women with depression, anxiety, or other forms of mental illness. Susan shares her personal story with Cynthia in a conversation aimed at increasing understanding and awareness of these challenges.

Episode 013: Letting Go Jun 02, 2020

Learning to embrace Plan B is the work of living. The story of a friend's unexpected journey with her husband's faith transition frames a discussion about the gifts and challenges of ceding control, and the love lessons learned by allowing ourselves and others to change and grow.

Episode 012: The Ultimate Big Deal May 26, 2020

On a list of sensitive topics for Latter-day Saints, this one sits very near the top. Susan and Cynthia take a deep breath, and have an honest, heartfelt discussion about the complicated feelings some women may have about the temple.

Episode 011: Women on the Edge of Inside May 19, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by Jeralee Renshaw for a discussion of "the edge of inside," and how and why many Mormon women choose to be there.

Episode 010: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff May 12, 2020

When children leave the Church, there can be a lot of heartache and second-guessing for parents. Susan and Cynthia are joined by two friends who share personal stories of the love and growth they experienced when things didn't go the way they'd planned.

Episode 009: As a Cook...I Was a Piano Teacher May 05, 2020

Being a Latter-day Saint woman comes with a lot of cultural expectations. Cynthia and Susan discuss being yourself, even if that doesn't look anything like someone else thinks it should.

Episode 008: My Patron Saint is Chieko Okazaki Apr 28, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by Jeralee Renshaw to revisit the life and wisdom of a beloved former leader whose teachings seem more relevant than ever before.

Episode 007: Uncrossed Bridges Part 2 Apr 20, 2020

Will today's young Mormon women be willing to seek a spiritual home within the same patriarchal church structure their mothers and grandmothers have inhabited? Susan and Cynthia discuss how the bridges they've built don't seem to lead to a place younger women want to go.

Episode 006: Uncrossed Bridges Part 1 Apr 20, 2020

Will today's young Mormon women be willing to seek a spiritual home within the same patriarchal church structure their mothers and grandmothers have inhabited? Susan and Cynthia discuss how the bridges they've built don't seem to lead to a place younger women want to go.

Episode 005: Men Don't Have a Giant Church Bag Apr 14, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by guest Hannah Hinckley for a conversation about the ways in which men and women may approach or experience the Church differently. Hannah's personal experiences offer a vivid illustration of the ways these differences sometimes have a very real impact on the lives of women.

Episode 004: What Do You Need? Apr 07, 2020

The multitude tried to silence the blind man's cries for mercy as they passed by in pursuit of Jesus. Their desire to follow Jesus got in the way of their ability to see the needs of the one. Cynthia and Susan discuss lessons they're learning about the importance of stopping, really seeing people, and asking what they need.

Episode 003: God Isn't In a Hurry Apr 07, 2020

Cynthia and Susan are joined by guest Jeralee Henderson Renshaw to discuss the idea that God isn't impatient with us, we are impatient with ourselves. "Becoming" is a lifelong process—the fact that we're never quite finished is simply part of the plan.

Episode 002: Tell Me What You Know Apr 03, 2020

What do you know? Like, really know-know? The answer may change daily, or even hourly, but it's a good question to ask yourself, and a good place to start a conversation with someone else. In this episode, Cynthia and Susan talk about the question itself, and share some of their own answers to it.

Episode 001: It's Complicated Apr 02, 2020

Hosts Cynthia Winward and Susan Hinckley introduce themselves, talk about why they feel a podcast aimed at amplifying women's voices is needed, discuss the ways in which Mormon women's lives are particularly complicated, and introduce topics for future episodes.

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