At Last She Said It

Latest Episodes:

Episode 213: Introverts in an Extrovert's Church Feb 25, 2025

Show notes

"What is it like to be an introvert in a church that really supports extroversion?" When therapist C.A. Larson asked this question in a previous episode, it was a lightbulb moment for many listeners. Through voicemails, emails, and on social media, women of the ALSSI community reported feeling seen, and understanding their own church experiences in a new way. In Episode 213, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss the messages listeners submitted, as well as their own experiences. What might our church gain from fully embracing all personality types?

Episode 212: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Kathie Debenham Feb 18, 2025

Show notes

"My faith is this process of evolving, ebbing, flowing, forming, reforming, shaping, shape shifting," explains Kathie Debenham. It's no surprise that she describes her faith as a moving thing; as a dancer, her education includes a graduate certification focused on "observing, describing, recording, and making meaning of movement." In Episode 212, Kathie joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about her personal journey—where she's been, where she is, and how she intends to keep moving. She says, "I have given myself permission to allow my faith to continue to evolve as informed by my spiritual practice and by the light and knowledge I'm seeking."

Episode 211: Who's the Decider? | A Conversation with Natalie Brown Feb 11, 2025

Show notes

When asked about the possibility of priesthood ordination for women in 1998, Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley famously told Larry King, "It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don't anticipate it." Big changes have come following revelations in LDS history, but must prophetic revelation always precede change? Even on a local level, many leaders are hesitant to innovate in small ways. Natalie Brown posits that "not every small experiment should require prophetic sign off." In Episode 211, she joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about how change happens—or doesn't—at church. Do debate and discussion have a place, and if so, whose opinions should be considered? And what about transparency in the decision-making process?

Episode 210: Marriage Edition Part 2 | A(nother) Conversation with Dr. Jennifer Bird Feb 04, 2025

Show notes

In Part 2 of the conversation about biblical marriage, Susan and Cynthia ask Dr. Jennifer Bird about virginity, purity culture, and—of course!—biblical polygamy. Joseph Smith drew on polygamy in the Hebrew Bible to justify instituting the practice in early Mormonism, teaching that sometimes God not only condoned but actually mandated it. So what does a feminist biblical scholar say about it?

Episode 209: Does That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? Marriage Edition | A Conversation with Dr. Jennifer Bird Jan 28, 2025

Show notes

"If we want to look at this sacred collection called the Bible as our guide, let's be really clear and honest about what it was saying on its own terms first, then leave it up to everyone to figure out what we're going to do with that, because we're going to do different things with it," suggests Dr. Jennifer Bird. In Episode 209, she joins Susan and Cynthia for part one of a conversation about biblical marriage. Is it possible that in our reading of the Bible, we've layered a lot of our own ideas about marriage and relationships on top of it that were never there to begin with? What can we understand about biblical marriage based on what the texts actually say?

Episode 208: Patriarchy 101 | A Conversation with Amy McPhie Allebest Jan 21, 2025

Show notes

Latter-day Saints have a complicated relationship with the word patriarchy. We reverence it, including variations in some of our highest callings and ordinances, yet many members won't touch it in a discussion of women's rights or organizational equality. So how can we have meaningful conversations about it with other Church members? Amy McPhie Allebest says, "There are two ways to try to reach people's hearts and minds to say, 'I'm serious, this is a problem.' One is through facts, and one is through feelings." In Episode 208, Amy joins Cynthia and Susan to explore both in a discussion aimed at preparing listeners to have hard conversations in effective ways.

Episode 207: What About Religiosity, Violence and Abuse? | A Conversation with Dr. Susan Madsen Jan 14, 2025

Show notes

When it comes to talking about abuse and violence against women, "You have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable," explains Susan Madsen. In Episode 207, Dr. Madsen joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about the link between religiosity and abuse, and the power disparity that fosters it. Even where the Church is strongest, the statistics are troubling, to say the least. How might our church and its members move from lip service to leading "the army to protect home, family, and children?"

Episode 206: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Darice Auston Jan 07, 2025

Show notes

"How many things have to happen to you before something occurs to you," says Darice Auston, quoting Robert Frost. In Episode 206, Darice joins Cynthia and Susan to share some of the things that have occurred to her, and where those insights are leading her now. It's a conversation that illustrates the ways our unique experiences can shape and inform our spiritual life and church engagement, leading to a truer expression of our deepest personal beliefs.

Episode 205: The Spiritual Nature of All Things | A Conversation with Kaylee McElroy Dec 17, 2024

Show notes

"The natural world, with all its varieties of God's creations, shows us so many [other] ways of being," writes Kaylee McElroy. Zooming out as far as human imagination can take us may bring our ideas about God and our relationship to the physical world into clearer focus. In Episode 205, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Kaylee for a conversation about everything: structures, darkness, creation, connection, and the convergence of physics and spirituality.

Episode 204: Do I Have to Care? | The Second Coming Dec 10, 2024

Show notes

In a church where everything is "true," how do we allocate importance? With only so much bandwidth, we all have to make choices about what matters to us. Which ideas do we find to be consistently resonant, or generative? Which produce meaningful fruit in our lives and relationships? In Episode 204, Cynthia and Susan take on the current interest in the Second Coming in a discussion about deciding what really matters.

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