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Aider and Abettor Podcast — Society & Culture
Aider and Abettor Podcast

Public Defenders Sajid Khan and Avi Singh podcast on the criminal system on Aider and Abettor.

The show includes discussions about the mismatch between the criminal system’s purported values and actual function.

Sajid Khan is a public defender in San Jose, CA. Sajid is a the author of Closing Arguments, a blog focused on criminal law and social justice. His work is published by the National Association of Public Defense. Sajid graduated from UC Berkeley and UC Hastings College of Law.

Avi Singh is a public defender in San Jose, CA. Avi graduated from UC Davis and Harvard Law School. He is on the Board of the Asian American Criminal Trial Lawyers’ Association. Avi coaches a high school mock trial team that competes in the Constitutional Rights Foundation program.

You can follow @thesajidkhan and @avanindar on Twitter.

Please send comments and suggestions to aiderandabettor@gmail.com. You can also follow us on twitter @aiderandabettor. Our website is https://medium.com/@aiderandabettor

Latest Episodes:

Public Public Defenders Jul 23, 2018

Show notes

This is the twentieth episode of Aider & Abettor. Sajid talks with Alameda public defender Rachel Marshall. Rachel handles felony trials in Oakland, California. She has written articles about the sentence of Brock Turner and recall of Judge Aaron Persky for vox.com. You can find her work here: https://www.vox.com/authors/rachel-marshall. You can follow Rachel on twitter @RachelRMarshall Sajid and Rachel talk about being Public public defenders—that is, public defenders willing to step out of the courtroom and into public debates about criminal justice. They talk about how they wound up being Public public defenders and share some of their thoughts about the process of taking their case to the court of public opinion. The episode was recorded after the recall of Judge Aaron Persky. Sajid and Rachel talk about some of the ways that the recall might effect how judges exercise their power and discuss potential defense responses. Music in this episode is by @leerosevere and @makaihbeats.

Krasner Memo May 24, 2018

Show notes

Avi and Sajid sit down with Michael Ogul to discuss a memo issued by Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner aimed at fighting mass incarceration and restoring balance to sentencing. The three describe some of the problems that this new approach attempts to solve. They also talk about ways to take this new approach further. The intro and outro are by Lee Rosevere. The break music is by Mark Punzalan. Music played during a part of the conversation is by Makaih Beats. Michael Ogul is a veteran public defender. He supervises a special trial unit and represents clients facing homicide charges. Michael is the former president of the California Public Defenders Association. He has been involved in the creation of legislation, including a recent bill aimed at ensuring that prosecutors hand over exculpatory evidence. Please let us know what you think about the Krasner memo. If you have ideas for making the criminal justice system more just on the prosecution side, we would love to hear from you. You can email us at aiderandabettor@gmail.com, tweet @aiderandabettor, or post on our Facebook page. If you like Aider & Abettor, leave us a review and rating in iTunes.

Stephon Clark Body Cam Reactions May 02, 2018

Show notes

We were joined by our friend/fellow public defender Carlie Ware for a discussion about the police shooting of Stephon Clark. The conversation includes our reactions to the body camera and helicopter footage. We recorded the episode before the release of the private and public autopsies. We will talk more about Stephon Clark in future pods.

#ClientsFirst in LA Mar 30, 2018

Show notes

In this episode of Aider & Abettor, Avi and Sajid interview Los Angeles Deputy Public Defender Elizabeth Lashley-Haynes about the #clientsfirst #notmypd movement in Los Angeles County. The Board of Supervisors in Los Angeles appointed an attorney with zero public defense experience to be the interim head the largest Public Defender's Office in the United States. In response, public defenders and community allies organized opposition to the appointment. This included a protest of the appointment by over 150 public defenders. Elizabeth talks about what is going on in Los Angeles. If you would like to learn more about the opposition to this appointment, check out this petition: https://www.change.org/p/the-los-angeles-county-board-of-supervisors-la-county-board-of-supervisors-remove-interim-public-defender-nicole-davis-tinkham

14 Going on Life Without Parole Mar 04, 2018

Show notes

Avi and Sajid took the podcast on the road to the Capital Case Defense Seminar in Monterey, CA. This episode is an interview with Marc Bookman. Marc is the co-director of the Atlantic Center for Capital Representation in Philadelphia, PA. The interview focuses on Marc's work on behalf of Ricky Olds. Ricky was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for being present at a homicide when he was 14. Marc tells Ricky's story and describes how he challenged Ricky's sentence after the Supreme Court decided Miller v. Alabama. Marc's writing has been published in the Atlantic, Mother Jones, Slate, and Vice News. You can find his article about Ricky Olds here: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7bm9xe/ricky-olds-prison-juvenile-justice-sentencing-reform-america

How We Represent Those People Jan 22, 2018

Show notes

In Ep. 15 of Aider & Abettor, Avi and Sajid sit down with Rod O'Connor. Rod retired from public defense in 2016. During his career, Rod tried homicides and mentored new lawyers (including Avi). In the first segment, Rod shares his perspective as a recently retired public defender on the parts of the job that he misses and the parts of the job that he does not miss. They take up FAQs/cocktail party questions in the second segment. How do they represent those people? How do they sleep at night? Find out. As part of this segment, they share their thoughts on the McCoy v. Louisiana case. In that case, an attorney conceded his client's guilt in a death penalty trial, over the client's objection. The attorney thought this would increase the chances of a non-death sentence. At the end of the show, they share their Thing(s). The music in this episode is by Lee Rosevere, Makaih Beats, and Chris Zabriskie.

mid thirty something jump street Dec 26, 2017

Show notes

In the last episode of the year, Avi and Sajid recorded a live pod at Jordan Middle School in Palo Alto, California. The students have been thinking about the issue of prosecuting minors as adults. In the first segment, Avi talks about challenging the sentence of a person who was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for a homicide he committed when he was seventeen. In the second segment, Sajid delivers a modified closing argument about why his client should remain in juvenile court instead of being transferred to adult court. The last segment is Q and A. The music in this episode is by Lee Rosevere, Makaih Beats, and Chris Zabriskie. This is the last episode of 2017. Thanks so much to everyone for supporting this project. Please subscribe, rate, and share. It helps get the word out about the pod.

State Action with Ash Kalra Nov 27, 2017

Show notes

On this episode of Aider & Abettor, California State Assemblymember Ash Kalra joins Sajid and Avi. Ash is the first Indian American state legislator in California. Before being elected to the California State Assembly, Ash was a public defender in San Jose, CA (at the same office as Sajid and Avi) for over 10 years and then served as a San Jose City Council member for 8 years. In the Opening Statement, Ash describes his path to public defense and then to elected office. Ash reflects on representing clients in drug cases during the height of Three Strikes and the war on drugs. The three share stories about Indian Public Defender misidentifications. They also reflect on their experiences pursuing careers in law (specifically public defense) as children of South Asian immigrants. In the Deep Dive, Ash, Avi and Sajid discuss recent major criminal justice reforms in California, changes unimaginable just a few years ago such as the establishment of a tiered sex offender registry. They break down other reforms that target mass incarceration on the front end by eliminating sentence enhancements and allowing judges to use their discretion and on the back end by creating new parole opportunities for young offenders and the elderly in our prisons. They discuss what the next frontier of criminal justice reform will and should look like. At the end of the show, Sajid and Avi share their “Things,” both reflecting on special, memorable moments with clients. Our music and sounds are by @leerosevere.

Bench Notes: Conversation with Retired Judge on Bail/Plea Bargaining/Judicial Recall Oct 12, 2017

Show notes

In this episode of Aider & Abettor, Avi and Sajid are joined by retired Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Ron Del Pozzo, someone who they both appeared in front of during their public defense careers before the Judge’s retirement. In the first segment (2:20), they all discuss the nuances of plea bargaining in criminal cases including the relative power of judges and prosecutors during the process. The conversation dovetailed into reflections on the interplay of bail, plea bargaining and outcomes for indigent people compared to the more affluent accused of crimes. They brainstorm ways to help level the playing field and to achieve more fair dispositions for all. In the second segment (42:30), Avi, Sajid and Judge Del Pozzo trade thoughts on the trial of Brock Turner, his sentence and the effort to recall Judge Aaron Persky. Judge Del Pozzo shares about what it was like to run for Judge against Persky, his thoughts about Turner’s sentence and his view of Perksy’s reputation on the bench. They question the prudence of the recall effort and discuss the recall’s potential consequences. In the last segment (1:19:38), they each share their “things,” including new criminal justice legislation in California about drug sales priors and sex offenders, the Warriors’ relationship with San Quentin Prison and advice from Judge Del Pozzo on how to counter hate with love. The intro, outro, and transitions are by @leerosevere. P.S. This episode was recorded at the Roosevelt Community Center in San Jose and was videotaped by Chris Knight and Kimy Martinez of StabbyDoll Productions. It was a very cool experience to work with Chris and Kimy. Please check out the video of the episode here: https://youtu.be/N-BYk8bb0_w

Reclaiming Our Time with Kristin Carter [AKA Respecting the Wu-Tang] Sep 09, 2017

Show notes

Avi is joined by public defender Kristin Carter. The topics include whether the ACLU should change its stance on representation after Charlottesville, jury selection in the Shkreli trial, the Arpaio pardon, and Taylor Swift. At the end of the episode they do their Things. Our music is by @leerosevere. Sajid was on a pilgrimage during the taping of this episode. He will be back next time.

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