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    Business

    Against the Rules with Michael Lewis

    Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public’s trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what’s fair and what’s not?

    Get your copy of The Big Short audiobook, narrated by Michael Lewis, on Audible, Spotify, Apple Books, pushkin.fm/bigshort or wherever you get audiobooks.

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    Copyright: © 2025 Pushkin Industries

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    Latest Episodes:
    Gambler Billy Walters on the Sharp's Life Dec 10, 2024
    Show notes

    Michael Lewis sits down with Billy Walters, one of the most famous sports bettors of all time. They talk about Walters' impoverished childhood in Kentucky, and his transformation from an auto dealer to a professional poker player in Las Vegas to a sobered-up millionaire who's been indicted five times.

    For further reading: Gambler: Secrets from a Life at Risk by Billy Walters.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Episode 7: Little Big Short Dec 03, 2024
    Show notes

    As a resident of California, Michael Lewis cannot place bets on any of the online sports books at the center of this season. They’re not allowed to operate in the state. But why? We hear from pastors, Native Americans and short-sellers about why a handful of states are still holding out, and why those efforts are most likely doomed.

    For further reading: Steve Ruddock’s gaming newsletter Straight to the Point

    Inside the $400 million fight to control California sports betting by Gus Garcia-Roberts, Washington Post.

    This episode has been corrected to reflect the accurate title of Victor Rocha. He is Conference Chair of the Indian Gaming Association, not the Chair.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Episode 6: VIP Nov 26, 2024
    Show notes

    What does it mean to be a “very important person” in the world of online sports betting? Not necessarily what you think. We hear from recovering gambling addicts and state regulators frustrated with some of the perverse incentives to keep people on a losing streak. Meanwhile, our show’s own producers hope for a VIP night at the concert of the year.

    For further reading: Legalizing Sports Gambling Was a Huge Mistake by Charles Fain Lehman.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Episode 5: The Mule Nov 19, 2024
    Show notes

    The role has many names: “Runner,” “mover,” “betting partner,” and “mule.” As skilled sports gamblers find themselves limited on apps, they turn to these affiliates to place their bets in return for a piece of the proceeds. Against the Rules decides to explore this murky world by signing up for mule-dom with one of the world’s most skilled sports bettors.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    An Interview with Ted Olson Nov 15, 2024
    Show notes

    Constitutional lawyer and former US Solicitor Ted Olson recently died at the age of 84. Olson represented the state of New Jersey in its efforts to overturn a federal ban on sports gambling. Those efforts succeeded, as we hear in our episode "Welcome to the Garden State." But Olson and Michael Lewis talked about many other aspects of his vivid legal career. We're offering their full conversation today.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Episode 4: A Hard Way to Make an Easy Living Nov 12, 2024
    Show notes

    Michael Lewis heads to Las Vegas to explore the way sports betting used to work, up until the day it was rapidly legalized by states around the country. We meet the betting sharps who figured out what others couldn’t and set the odds for other bookies. That is, up until everyone seemed to have a casino on their smartphone. But the new online casino differs from the old ones in an important way: It doesn’t take all bets.

    For further reading:

    Edward Thorp’s Beat the Dealer

    “Cigars, Booze, Money: How a Lobbying Blitz Made Sports Betting Ubiquitous” by

    Eric Lipton and Kenneth P. Vogel

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Nate Silver on the Risky Business of Sports Betting Oct 29, 2024
    Show notes

    As the US election nears, Michael Lewis sits down with Nate Silver, co-host of the Pushkin podcast Risky Business (along with the writer, psychologist and professional poker player Maria Konnikova). They talk about why people bet on elections, the problem with sports gamblers in the United States, and Silver’s new book, On the Edge: The Art of Risking Everything.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Marci Cottingham on the Religious Passion of Steeler Nation Oct 22, 2024
    Show notes

    Is there a difference between fandom and religion? In Pittsburgh, it can be hard to tell. Fans of the city’s football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, seem to have a cradle-to-grave devotion, complete with a golden relic, the “terrible towel.” Michael Lewis talks with sociologist Marci Cottingham, a native of Steeler Nation, about her work studying the religious overtones of fandom, and why the positive experiences of sports fans should get more scholarly attention.

    For further reading: Marci Cottingham’s Practical Feelings: Emotions as Resources in a Dynamic Social World

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Alison LaCroix on How History Rhymes at the Supreme Court Oct 15, 2024
    Show notes

    It may seem like sports gambling got legalized overnight in the US. But it was in fact a winding road to get there. Michael Lewis speaks with legal historian and University of Chicago professor Alison L. LaCroix about all the factors that led to the Supreme Court overturning, in 2018, a federal law called the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act. And they explore why, in some eras of US history, the Court tends to lean towards “states rights” arguments.

    For further reading: Alison LaCroix’s The Interbellum Constitution: Union, Commerce, and Slavery in the Age of Federalisms

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


    Episode 3: Welcome to the Garden State Oct 08, 2024
    Show notes

    How did we get from fantasy sports to legalized sports betting? The path is convoluted, but most of it winds through New Jersey. Michael Lewis speaks with former governor Chris Christie, among other Jersey politicians, as well as lobbyists for the gaming industry. Plus we hear from Ted Olson, the lawyer who kept bringing the Garden State’s constitutional challenge until it finally reached the Supreme Court — and hit a jackpot.

    For further reading:

    Albert Chen’s Billion Dollar Fantasy

    Murphy v. NCAA

    ESPN timeline of how sports betting was legalized

    SCOTUS Blog: The Tenth Amendment, Anti-Commandeering and Sports Betting

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


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