The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

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(08:15) Succession Planning and Practicing What You Preach

(10:15) Working With Daniel Ek and Stretching Her Thinking

(11:00) Pressure Testing HR Truths at Spotify

(11:45) When People Grow, the Company Grows

(13:05) Finding a Culture You Can Feel When You Step In

(13:35) On’s Entrepreneurial Spirit and Swiss Engineering Mindset

(18:30) Performance Development Versus Performance Management

(19:15) The Four Ps: People, Product, Planet and Profitability

(20:45) How Performance Management Can Demotivate People

(21:15) Autonomy, Competence, Purpose and Benevolence

(22:10) Why Performance Growth Works Better Than Performance Management

(23:00) Proud People Perform

(23:40) Giving People a Clear North Star and a Mental Paddock

(24:30) Why Growth Is a Business Strategy, Not an HR Program

(25:10) Why Downsizing L&D Misses the Point

(28:00) Upskilling, Cross-Skilling and Off-Skilling

(29:15) Why Learning Is an Investment, Not a Cost

(29:45) The Human Skills Technology Cannot Replace

(32:20) The Importance of Leadership in a Paradigm Shift

(34:00) Mercenaries, Missionaries and Why Both Systems Can Work

(39:15) Why HR Needs Business Acumen, Not Just HR Acumen

(41:15) The People Team Hackathon and Building Agents

(43:10) Focusing on Learnings Instead of Blame

(50:15) Applying New Technology to Old Ways of Working

(51:15) Why AI Will Change Everything, But Not Overnight

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

338 - How Edward Jones Builds Inclusion into Everyday Business Decisions Oct 14, 2026

Show notes

Vanessa Okwuraiwe, Head of Inclusion & Accessibility, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about how inclusion work has moved deeper into the business, why purpose matters at Edward Jones, and how human judgment, client trust, accessibility, and AI are shaping the future of financial services.

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(14:15) Why Inclusion Is More Integrated Into the Business Now

(15:10) Moving Inclusion From Standalone Programs Into Policy, Process and Systems

(16:25) Building Inclusion Into Leadership Development and Behavior Models

(17:35) Why Inclusion Should Never Be Fashionable

(18:15) Business Resource Groups as Business Influencers

(19:35) Vanessa’s Day-to-Day Work Across Advocacy, Cultural Acumen and AI

(20:15) Building Human Judgment Into AI and Client Experiences

(20:45) Looking at the Client Opportunity Across Generations

(24:00) Why Younger Generations Expect More Inclusive Companies

(26:35) Digital-First Expectations and the Future of Branch Experiences

(29:30) Serving Five Generations of Clients

(30:05) Why AI Makes Information a Commodity, But Trust Still Matters

(33:15) Big P Purpose: Positive Impact With Clients, Colleagues and Communities

(34:10) Little P Purpose: Everyday Ways People Activate Purpose

(37:35) How Edward Jones Develops Leaders Around Respectful Debate and Inclusion

(40:20) Vanessa’s Personal Purpose

(41:35) Giving Feedback With Kindness and Dignity

(43:30) Using AI for Efficiency While Preserving Human Judgment

(44:20) Why Human Connection and Trust Still Matter Most

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337 - Who benefits from AI gains? (Andy Doyle, Chief People & Agent Officer at Kantar) Oct 09, 2026

Show notes

Andy Doyle, Chief People & Agent Officer at Kantar, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about Kantar’s agentic HR transformation, why the future workforce will be a mix of humans and agents, and the four dimensions of AI we should be looking at when we think about who benefits from the AI gains.

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(09:25) Why There Has Never Been a Better Time to Work in HR

(12:25) “What Would You Need to Believe to Take Another 50% Out?”

(14:00) Four Big HR Operating Model Changes at Kantar

(14:35) Moving From COEs to Business Capability Hubs

(15:35) Cutting the Bonus Cycle From 12 Weeks to 8 Days

(16:10) Why Kantar Took Business Partners Away From the Business

(18:00) Taking Workday Access Away From Business Partners

(20:40) Twelve Thousand People and Seventeen Thousand Agents

(22:30) Why Technology Has Become Disposable

(23:00) HR Building Agents Without the Technology Team

(26:45) Why HR Needs Clean Data and Better Foundations

(28:10) Rewriting 4,200 Policies for Agents to Read

(33:05) Why Leaders Must Build and Role Model Agents

(33:45) HR Analytics Agent That Reduced a Monthly Task From One Week to Ten Minutes

(35:10) Why Kantar’s TA Team Is Smaller, More Productive and More Engaged

(35:35) Sharing the AI Dividend Across Shareholders, Clients, Employees and Society

(39:00) Why Kantar Wants 80% From Agents and 20% From Human Judgment

(42:15) Why Everything Andy Knew About Change Has Gone Out the Window

(47:25) Rethinking the Five-Day Workweek and Vacation Time

(52:25) The Practice Andy Would Steal: Product Mindset in HR

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Build - Onboarding, L&D, & building in the AI era Oct 06, 2026

Show notes

Luca Oake and Jessica Zwaan joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about building scalable L&D, why onboarding should be outcomes-focused instead of input-focused, and how AI, strong project runways, iteration, and builder mindsets can help people teams move faster.

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(08:05) Talentful’s Need for a More Scalable Onboarding Program

(13:35) Why L&D Needs to Focus on Outcomes, Not Inputs

(14:25) Why Learning Does Not Happen Until Behavior Changes

(14:55) How AI Changes the Role of Coaches and L&D Leaders

(16:25) Jessie on Using AI as a Tool, Not the Decision-Maker

(19:15) Why Jessie’s Upfront Brief Made the Work Faster

(20:40) Building a Smooth Runway for a Consultant

(22:00) Designing for Outcomes and Scale

(23:10) Flexible Operators and Expert Consultants as the Future of Work

(25:40) Making the Project a Talentful Priority, Not a Jessie Project

(26:45) Why Change Projects Need Strategic Seeding Across the Organization

(28:20) How AI Helped Luca Process Interviews, Transcripts and Documents

(29:00) Why Fractional Consultants Can Move Faster With AI

(30:10) Designing the Onboarding Wireframe in Less Than a Month

(35:15) The Complexity of Talentful’s Onboarding Program

(38:10) Zooming In Before Zooming Out With Stakeholders

(39:35) Building to Iterate, Not Just to Launch

(40:10) The Biggest V1 to V2 Change: Four Weeks Down to One Week

(42:20) Why MVPs Matter in People Ops

(43:15) Why HR Needs Permission to Iterate

(45:50) Why Moving Quickly Is No Longer Optional

(52:35) Why Feelings Are Data, Not Facts

(53:25) Why the Best L&D Is Building

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335 - Why This CEO Says High Output Management No Longer Works in the AI Era Oct 02, 2026

Show notes

Dan Mishin, Founder & CEO of Manifest OS, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about how Manifest is rebuilding immigration law for the AI era, why talent strategy now requires faster, more creative support for global employees, and how AI-native companies are changing management, engineering teams, vendor strategy, and the war for 10X talent.

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(13:00) Charlie Munger, Incentives and the AI Economy

(14:30) The Problem With Billable Hours

(15:20) Why Legal Pricing Should Be Fixed, Transparent and Outcome-Based

(20:45) Immigration as a Talent Acquisition and Retention Lever

(21:40) Why Tech Companies Need Creative Immigration Strategy

(23:25) How AI Frees Lawyers to Focus on Strategy and Service

(25:20) Why High Output Management No Longer Fits the AI Era

(26:20) How Manifest Structures AI-Native Teams

(26:45) One AI Engineer, One Lawyer and Full Autonomy

(27:20) Using AI Agents to Orchestrate Work and Avoid Duplication

(30:00) Treating AI Agents Like Independent Employees

(31:20) Why CEOs Need Daily AI Education Time

(31:45) Hiring People Who Grew Up AI-Native

(32:10) Why Dan Does Not Want Professional Managers in Technical Roles

(36:20) Rethinking Vendor Strategy Around AI-Native Partners

(38:00) Why Executives Should Do the Grunt Work

(40:25) Revisiting Decisions in Real Time

(41:00) Why Going Back Down the Mountain Is So Hard

(42:25) The New Talent Strategy in the AI Economy

(43:40) Why A-Players Have 10X More Leverage Now

(46:40) Career Advice: HR Needs to Become HR Plus Ops Plus Product

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334 - The Change Episode: Laura McGann (Chief People Officer, Prosci) Sep 29, 2026

Show notes

Laura McGann joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about why change management no longer feels like the right term, how the ADKAR framework helps people name where they are stuck, and what leaders need to do as AI, velocity, overwhelm, and constant change reshape work.

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(12:25) Why “Change Management” No Longer Feels Like the Right Term

(17:35) Why Defining Success Is the Most Important Part of Change

(18:20) People-Side Metrics: Utilization, Adoption and Proficiency

(21:10) Why Change No Longer Has Clear End Dates

(22:20) No Recovery Gap and the Rise of Change Fatigue

(25:10) Naming What Is Happening Through ADKAR

(25:35) ADKAR: Awareness, Desire, Knowledge, Ability and Reinforcement

(26:40) Using ADKAR to Name Where You Are Stuck

(29:00) Why Leaders Often Skip Awareness and Desire

(29:45) AI and the Perpetual Knowledge-to-Ability Cycle

(33:30) Why the Pace of Change Feels So Uncomfortable

(35:10) Why Leaders Need a Portfolio View of Change

(38:10) Why Leaders Should Not Be Afraid to Say “Overwhelmed”

(41:00) What Future Leaders Need to Learn About AI

(45:45) Why Leaders Need Hands on Keyboards

(46:30) AI as an Enabler of Business Strategy, Not the Strategy

(47:15) Daniel’s Suitcase Metaphor for Manager Overload

(50:00) Deciding What AI Can Do and What Must Stay Human

(52:00) Stephen on Knowing What Not to Do

(56:00) Career Advice: Learn the Business Before You Try to Change It

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333 - Vercel's 2-Week Review Cycle & Flight Risk Tool: Olivia Williams (Head of HR, Vercel) Sep 26, 2026

Show notes

Olivia Williams joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about how Vercel shortened its performance review cycle from 11 weeks to two weeks and how they built a 15-factor flight risk tool to retain top talent.

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(12:25) Why Vercel Rethought Its Performance Review Cycle

(13:35) Realizing Vercel Was Spending Five Months a Year in Review Mode

(14:05) Why Most Employees Submitted Reviews on the Last Day Anyway

(14:40) Cutting the Review Cycle From 11 Weeks to Two Weeks

(17:35) Faster Feedback and More Relevant Review Conversations

(18:55) What the Two-Week Review Cycle Looks Like

(20:50) Treating the Review Cycle Like a Product for the Business

(22:10) PerfBot and Continuous Monthly Feedback

(22:35) Why Olivia Wants to “Kill Culture Amp”

(24:05) Monthly Slack Check-Ins With Three Simple Questions

(26:00) Hiring an HR Technologist Inside the People Org

(27:15) Stephen’s Rant: Why Traditional SaaS Tools Are Cooked

(29:45) The Importance of Play, Curiosity and Building

(30:20) Why People Teams Need AI Muscle and HR Technologists

(32:30) Olivia Demos PerfBot in Slack

(37:40) Vercel’s Employee Health Score and Attrition Risk Tool

(40:40) Using Claude to Analyze 15 Employee Risk Factors

(43:20) Thinking of HR as a Product for Employees

(46:45) Advice for People Teams With Head Trash Around AI

(49:00) Why Companies Should Bake in Time to Build

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332 - Deciding what to keep & what to kill as your company scales: Conor Sweeney, VP, Head of People & Talent, Form Health Sep 22, 2026

Show notes

Conor Sweeney joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about what it's looked like to scale culture while doubling in size every year for three years straight.

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(12:05) Lessons From Jessica Swank and Tiffany Stevenson

(12:40) Learning Patience, Empathy and Flexibility as a Leader

(18:25) What Form Health Does in Plain English

(21:30) Scaling Culture While Form Health Doubles in Size

(23:25) The Fork in the Road: What to Keep and What to Let Go

(25:05) Why Consensus-Driven Decision-Making Stops Scaling

(28:00) Trust as the Foundation for Faster Decision-Making

(31:15) How to Scale Trust Day to Day

(32:35) Why Nailing the Fundamentals Still Matters

(33:25) Hiring for Both the What and the How

(35:40) “Don’t Crush the Butterfly” and What Form Health Must Protect

(36:30) Form Health’s First Butterfly: Clinical Care Quality

(38:45) Form Health’s Second Butterfly: Partnership

(43:20) Build With, Not Build For, as a People Leader

(45:30) Project Compass and Form Health’s Job Architecture Upgrade

(48:00) Building Consistency Around Levels, Competencies and Compensation

(49:15) Building Job Architecture for the Next Phase of Growth

(51:10) Why People Leaders Can’t Only Rely on Old Benchmarking Tools

(53:00) The Rise of the High-Impact Individual Contributor

(56:00) The Player-Coach Model of Modern Management

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331 - Designing the org of the future: Alexis Fink (Advisor at OpenAI & Workvivo) Sep 18, 2026

Show notes

Alexis Fink joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how AI is changing work, why org design needs to move beyond boxes and lines, and how curiosity, influence, courage, and better systems thinking can help people leaders design for the future.

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(14:10) The One-Way Door of AI and Work

(17:15) Why AI Transformation Will Take Longer Than 18 Months

(19:05) What Org Design Means in the AI Era

(20:30) Work Organization, Decision Rights and the Role of Machines

(22:15) Why the Org Chart Is the Wrong Question

(23:05) Inverted Pyramids, Hourglass Models and Different Assumptions About Talent

(25:00) The IKEA Example: Turning Automation Into New Human Work

(28:05) Why AI Should Free Capacity, Not Just Eliminate Jobs

(31:40) How to Reframe the Headcount Reduction Conversation

(33:25) Breaking Through Constraints, Vendor Issues and Learned Helplessness

(36:45) Budget Constraints and the Problem With Legacy Decision Rights

(40:20) Lessons From Past Transformations at Microsoft

(43:00) Creating a Hard Gate for Vice President Promotions

(44:10) Creating a Real Individual Contributor Career Path

(47:30) What Has Changed About Change Management

(49:05) Multiple Layers of Change and the Need for a Clear North Star

(50:25) Avoiding Shiny Object Syndrome and Finishing the Last Mile

(53:10) The Difference Between Influence and Convincing

(55:45) Creating Gravitational Pull Instead of Pushing

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330 - A career in pivots: Dean Carter on purpose, play, and taking big swings Sep 17, 2026

Show notes

Dean Carter (Best-Selling Author, 4x CHRO, & CEO of Instill) joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about the career pivots that shaped his life, what Patagonia taught him about purpose and play, and why trusting your gut, taking big swings, and doing the right thing can lead you somewhere better than the plan you originally had.

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