From park newspapers, maps, trail guides, and more, Yellowstone has a LOT of publications. Miles Barger, publications program manager, joins us to talk about his job writing, designing, and managing these dozens of printed materials. We discuss his professional journey since starting as a seasonal housekeeper at Canyon Village, as well as his nail-biting grizzly bear sighting during one of his first hiking trips in the park.
View definitions and links discussed in this episode at go.nps.gov/WhatWeDoPodcast
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TRANSCRIPT:
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Jake: From Yellowstone National Park. This is what we do. I'm Jake Frank.
Ashton: And I'm Ashton Hooker.
Jake: Ashton.
Ashton: Hey, Jake.
Jake: How are you?
Ashton: I'm doing pretty good. How about you?
Jake: We're in Yellowstone, life is good.
Ashton: It's another day in Yellowstone.
Jake: Did you by chance happen to see the email that we got about the edits to our spring newspaper?
Ashton: I did, actually.
Jake: Did you get your edits in yet?
Ashton: No. It's on my list, though.
Jake: Make sure to do that. Yeah. Speaking of publications. Do you know how many publications that Yellowstone National Park manages?
Ashton: Oh. It's got to be way more than I even think.
Jake: It's a big number. It's not like ridiculously big number, but it's probably more than you would think.
Ashton: Yeah, I'm going to say 40.
Jake: Double that.
Ashton: Oh wow, 80?
Jake: 80 publications. Yeah. So, some of the big ones we have are like the park newspaper, but then there's a lot of site bulletins. There's basically all the information that you could want behind the visitor center desk. There's a ton of information to hand out to people if you come to Yellowstone and speaking of publications. Today we're joined by Miles Barger. He is the publications program manager in the Resource Education and Youth Programs division. Miles, how are you doing?
Miles: Oh, doing pretty well. Beautiful day out there.
Jake: It is a beautiful day. So, for our listeners, some of you may recognize the name. Miles is actually one of our hosts, but you're on the other side of the microphone today. So how does that feel?
Miles: Feels great. Multitalented. Yes. Yeah.
Jake: He's ambidextrous.
Miles: There you go.
Jake: You play offense and defense, right?
Miles: Yeah. Special teams.
Jake: Yes. So, how did you start working in national parks?
Miles: I was in college, and I was looking for a summer job. I had been working near my parents’ house in Kentucky. And then somehow, through the magic of the internet, I realized that you could work in a national park in the summer to make a minimum wage, which I think was like $5.25 back then.
Jake: You're dating yourself.
Miles: I know, yeah. You could work in a national park and make minimum wage instead of being at home doing it. So, I thought, that's interesting. So, I applied to. I don't think I applied to Glacier because you couldn't have a beard at that time, whatever the concessionaire was.
Ashton: Oh.
Jake: Well, what a terrible idea.
Ashton: Bummer.
Miles: I know. So, I was like, well, I'm not doing that, but Yellowstone, I saw some jobs, so I applied for a job with the concessionaire operating the hotels, which was Xanterra back then, as it is now. And I got a job, cleaning cabins at Canyon before they had built all the huge lodges that are up there now.
Ashton: Oh, wow.
Miles: It was all just cabins, yeah. And I towed a cart around from cabin to cabin and we paused when a bison was sitting on the porch, and I couldn't get in. It's like a forced break. and that was my first summer. And I haven't done anything but work in or around national parks since then.
Jake: Gotcha. So, you know, this podcast, we're focusing mainly on people who work in national parks. Yeah, but you mentioned that you worked for a concessionaire.
Miles: I did.
Jake: Yeah. Just something to tell people that are listening. Is that in Yellowstone, we have about 750 roughly permanent and seasonal employees combined every year. But what's that number in Xanterra? It's like over 3000?
Miles: I actually was just looking at this number for one of our publications. It's about 3200 seasonal, concessionaire employees in the summer. So many, many more.
Jake: Yeah. It's like five times more employees. So, for people who want to, like, if your main goal is to like what you were is to live in a cool place. In addition to park service jobs, there's Xanterra. There's Delaware North, STGi runs our clinics and then Yellowstone Forever. So, all of those different entities.
Miles: A lot of mines, a lot of my jobs were with nonprofit partners, like I worked for Alaska Geographic. Yeah, I worked for Denali Education Center, places like that where they're not the National Park Service job. But you're affiliated with the park, working with the park.
Jake: Yeah. So how did you make the switch? How did you go from one to the other?
Miles: I was working in Denali in Alaska, and I noticed that a lot of the people who worked there year-round had master's degrees, so I thought maybe I should do that. And I didn't have anything to do, in the off season anyway, so I started applying for master's degrees programs in, environmental studies, environmental science, got in the University of Oregon, started doing my master's, took some GIS classes that seemed helpful. And also, I'm a nerd and it seemed cool. And then there was a project called Atlas of Yellowstone, and I said, oh, I know about Yellowstone. I worked there for a little while, and I got in on that. And then a job opened up in the Park Service. Being a cartographer for the, unigrid brochure program, those are those glossy folded brochures you get when you go to the entrance of any national park. And so.
Jake: Highly sought after.
Miles: Highly sought after. Yeah. and it was the first time that job had opened in like 15 years, I think was the last time someone had retired or moved on. And I applied, figuring I wouldn't get it because it was a permanent, full time, higher graded a job. But I had the skills to pay the bills, I guess. It was just a very specialized area that I happened to, to have had a knack for it.
Ashton: Right place, right time.
Miles: Right place, right time. Exactly. I'd done SCA internships. I worked at Yellowstone. I had I'd pieced together enough stuff over those seasons that, combined with the cartography and design skills and writing, I could, you know, make a pretty good case that I had the love for the game and the skills and the knowledge about the park service and all of that, and I ended up getting the job.
Ashton: Cool!
Jake: So, your first park service job. The first. Well, what was your first seasonal one? I should say that was in Alaska? or did you go for.
Miles: I never had a park service job.
Jake: You never had a seasonal job?
Miles: My first Park Service job was a GS 12 visual information or cartographer.
Ashton: Wow!
Jake: Way, a way to just like come out swinging.
Miles: Yeah, yeah, I was pretty it was I definitely didn't think I would get the job. Yeah.
Ashton: Really awesome.
Jake: That is, you know, everybody that we interviewed, they'd have like a different backstory on how they started. And I would say, you know, that is atypical. But Ashton, you're you kind of had a similar thing too, right? Well, how did you get your start?
Ashton: I started in the it was Geoscientists and Parks internship program. Now it's called Scientists in Parks Internship Program. And I got an internship here in Yellowstone for a summer. And then this position opened up shortly after. Yeah. And applied thinking the same thing as Miles. I was like, I'm not going to get this job, but I got lucky and now I'm here.
Jake: Yeah. So, I would like to say that, you know, you guys are 2 in 1,000,000. Yeah. Like is that's not the anyway. Yeah. But I mean it can happen. I think that's, you know, just right place, right time. you know, being willing to get the background that you need so that when the jobs present themselves.
Ashton: So, you were a cartographer. Where was that?
Miles: Harpers Ferry,
Ashton: Okay.
Miles: So, it's the kind of design graphic design center for the National Park Service. I would say that's becoming more distributed over time. But things were super spread out in D.C. is my understanding. And like the 50s and 60s. And then there was a push to consolidate everything somewhere. And Senator Robert Byrd was very good at getting things built in West Virginia. I mean, Harpers Ferry, West Virginia is literally as far east and close to D.C. as you could possibly be in West Virginia. So, it's right on the corner. It's like the lowest elevation point in West Virginia, the beautiful spots where the Shenandoah flows into the Potomac.
Jake: Yeah, but I've sat on the confluence there and had lunch.
Miles: It's very pretty. And so, it's a building full of people who do. That's where the brochure program is. wayside exhibit design, AV, all sorts of stuff.
Jake: So, between that job, your first park Service job and, you know, now the program publications program manager, did you have some things in between or did you go it?
Miles: I did. I was there's a cartographer for. Yeah, almost four years. Basically, I missed being in the western U.S., and I wanted to get back into a park and operations. The cartographer job is cool because I got to see, like, the breadth of the Park Service and how many different types of parks there are and worked with every kind of park you can imagine from, like a tiny Civil war, not even Civil war, tiny Revolutionary War battlefields all the way up to huge parks. There was a job in Rocky Mountain National Park as the visual information specialist there. And I applied for that and got that job. So, I moved to Estes Park and worked for Rocky for five years. And then this job came open and I applied for that. And I came here in 2020. It was basically during the pandemic when that and the job opened up.
Jake: Yeah. So, kind of getting more into your current job now that you're here, do you have a typical day or a season? Like what? What's your what's your workload look like?
Miles: I definitely have a typical day, which is come into the office and sit down at my computer and work on my computer.
Jake: Can you, can you expand?
Miles: Yeah. So, being the publications program manager here, I'm in charge of not all the printed stuff, but the majority of printed things for visitors and for staff, like internal and even concessionaires. We make stuff for them as well. There are approximately 100 products, when you add up all the site bulletins, which are, you know, the folded black and white things that you get at visitor centers.
Jake: So, I was off, and I said 80.
Ashton: It's a lot.
Miles: It's something I yeah, maybe it's 80. It depends how you count things. Do you count all the different translations as separate things?
Jake: Sure.
Miles: Yeah. It's a lot of things. so. Yeah, depending on what the time of year is, I work on those, I would say my seasonal seasonality is kind of the inverse of a lot of people in operations. Which operations is like, you know, the front-line people who interact with visitors and are busiest during the summer, which is obviously when we're busiest. But I have to write, edit, get reviewed and get ready for print, which printing takes a lot longer than putting things digitally. Anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. You have to submit something before you're going to get the printed version. So, my winter is really the busiest time from like October through now basically. Jake: Yeah. Miles: And a bunch of stuff I'm getting done right now because we need to get it here by the in May basically when our busy season starts and then the summer is it's busy been in a different way in the summer I mostly work responding to I also make a lot of signs, design a lot of signs, and get them ordered so that a sign requests come in for just stuff that happens in the park. And then, you know, things tend to happen in the summer. We have whatever, road, something goes wrong, and we have to reroute people or regulation changes or it.
Jake: Depends how many floods or if a water main breaks.
Miles: Depends which plague we get. Yeah. so, I'm kind of, responding more short term to things like that and like sending things to people in the field, getting things, taking requests for publications that people need more of. and then going out more in the summer to, like, visit places, talk to people, kind of see what the needs are. So those are kind of my two main reasons.
Jake: So, with that, do you have like, an important like what for people who are interested in this type of a job, like is there a skill or something that you would consider that serves you well?
Miles: Yeah. So, I do design, but I also write like almost everything as well inside of the design. And so, I would say writing is a very easy writing and editing. Yeah. So, in that sense, like being able to write well, being able to write in different tones and styles depending on what you're making, like the newspaper, visitor guide that you get at the entrance stations is very just visitor information focused and it has a ton of stuff in it. So, it has to be very concise. So that's one type of writing. It's like plain language guidelines, which is a government thing for basically saying not using huge words and keeping sentences pretty easily understandable. So that's one type of writing. But then like resources and issues, I'm more editing other people, but that's more in depth. Scientific writing and kind of everything in between. So I'd say, right. It's also nice to be able to write your own stuff because when you're designing on paper, everything takes space, physical space on the page. And so, a lot of the time you need to be able to edit space as well. So, it's nice to be able to go back and forth to make things fit or like I'm OCD about columns being all the same length and things. So it's like, I, I want to edit this to be like seven words longer. Yeah, things like that.
Ashton: Detail oriented.
Miles: Exactly. And detail oriented. And then there's the design side of things. I think that's a tough one for me. There are skills you can learn, but I also think there's a certain “je ne sais quoi” that some people have, and some people don't. When it comes to design, but that's an important skill. And then there's all the technical stuff of like, no, we use Adobe products, InDesign, illustrator, things like that. But, you know, something like Figma or Gimp or whatever. All the different open-source things are very similar, but knowing how to run those programs well and do what you need to do, being like proficient and facile in those things. And then I make a lot of maps as well. I guess I wouldn't have to do that. Most people probably will call in on the GIS shop at their park if they have one to do that.
Jake: But you have that skill in your back pocket.
Miles: Yeah. Which is also, again, like the writing is, nice skill to have because you can design for your own space and stuff.
Jake: When I worked, when I so my job before I came to Yellowstone was in Glacier as a visual information specialist, similar to what you were doing, more likely in Rocky. I was very hesitant to write anything, you know, because it's like I that's why I take pictures because I'm not a solid writer and I let my pictures do the speaking.
Miles: Thousand words each.
Jake: Yeah, exactly. I was like, I am a I'm a prolific writer through photography. but when I came here, it was I was able to kind of do the same thing because there were people around me that were writing. But then as I got more into this job and started, you know, changing things like the products that we were making, the cam was asking us like, hey, do this or do that. There was no one to write. And so, you just kind of had to write for yourself. And that is a skill that I picked up. And I would agree, like writing is, it like I didn't I had to do writing in college. But you're like, writing for that is very different than writing for the web or writing or, you know, social media. It's just like it has a different tone and really kind of like getting comfortable in that. So, I would, echo that writing is a really a solid thing to do. And it seems like kind of like a lost. It's not it doesn't seem like it's emphasized as much on like what everything is 180, you know, or 280 characters. So, it's like, that's a skill to try to be succinct, but also like if you need to write more than that, that's a good thing to practice.
Miles: Yeah, yeah. I was an English major in music composition major in undergrad. I think both of those things help and music was harder to explain, but it's similar in a lot of ways I think. Yeah. And also, when I was a seasonal, so when I did seasonal work, I was a guide. Ashton: Okay. Miles: So, I was taking people on hikes and teaching classes and stuff all day long. And I think that has been helpful too, because it's kind of that it's that skill of learning how to take a bunch of information and synthesize it.
Ashton: Yeah so, I'm curious, so in your composition here, what's like the biggest publication or the one that takes the most time and effort or project like, that it takes a while for you to work on.
Miles: Resources and Issues. Yeah, it's a 300-page book. So, I always get the feeling every season that I would like to just start it over from scratch. But then I remember it would be like it would probably take five years, honestly, of full-time work, that in that at least. but yeah, that's the biggest.
Ashton: Yeah, that's a beast.
Jake: That's job security, Miles.
Miles: True. Yeah. That's the biggest by far. Everything else pales in comparison to that.
Jake: So, out of the, you know, the writing, designing, all the kind of things that you mentioned, do you have any of those, like, kind of stand out as your favorite that you like to do?
Miles: Making maps is my favorite, and I love when I get the chance, which is not very often because of time, but I love just like starting something over from scratch. Just like forget that it exists, then make it brand new. So, I guess I would say like what would that be? It's almost like book design. Yeah, kind of like where you're of course we don't choose the fonts because we have the fonts, but your kind of choosing the architecture of things like what kind of columns am I using, and baseline grid and designing all the style and all that kind of stuff, I think is my probably my favorite.
Jake: What's your least favorite? Cause like, that's why they pay us.
Miles: I think my least favorite is just when there's so many things that need doing that sometimes I just need to get done and updated. Yeah.
Jake: Or I should say, what's the most challenging part of your job? And it because it's like you can like everything, but what's, you know, what is the thing that makes it difficult?
Miles: I would say one of the big challenges is this is a big part. There's a lot of information. Yeah. And there's a lot of people who specialize in things, but, like, something like the newspaper visitor guide. I don't even know how many people review it. Like dozens. Yeah. And so sometimes it's coordinating all the different needs of different groups.
Jake: So, it’s herding turtles?
Miles: Yeah. Exactly.
Ashton: Herding turtles…
Miles: I wouldn't say it's difficult, but I also enjoy it because you get to learn a ton about the park. Like you get to learn about, you know,
Ashton: Different perspectives. Miles: All these different subjects and information, but also the different perspectives, like, yeah, the language on a sign for, visitor resource protection or law enforcement purposes is very different from like if you have a sign about fishing or a wayside. The fisheries biologists have a very different goals for that than the people who, like, want to enforce regulations versus the interpretation side of it. So yeah, I enjoy I enjoy it, but that that is definitely a skill that I've had to learn.
Ashton: So, I think that's kind of a perk. Being in like the communications field is you kind of have to be exposed to all these different perspectives. Yeah. Because you're writing, you're editing, you're designing. You know, you kind of have to know a little bit about everything. And I think it helps to be curious.
Miles: It definitely helps to be curious. I also think that there's a lot of things about my job that I've had people say, like, how do you stand that? Or I'm making a thing and there's going to be 200,000 copies printed of it. Pressure of that. And to me I'm like, whatever. So, I think but there's other people, but there's other people's jobs that seem super stressful to me. And they're like, oh, I love it, right?
Jake: Yeah, it's just whatever you're used to, it seems like.
Miles: Yeah. And like what? What you enjoy. So, I would say that's one tip is like find the things that you enjoy that other people don't. That's, that's, that's a good niche.
Ashton: For your niche. Yeah.
Miles: Yeah. Like play instead of trying to improve your, the things you're not good at like play to the things that you're naturally.
Jake: Yeah. Murph he's he likes pumping sludge.
Miles: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Ashton: Yeah. That is pretty niche.
Miles: Yeah. What's your favorite part of your job? And Murph says pumping sludge. Yeah. Sounds like you’re in the right job.
Jake: So, how, like, how do you feel that your job contributes to the to this larger mission that we have here? You know, you don't get to interact with people on a one-on-one basis, but you do. You kind of scratch that itch?
Miles: Yeah, I have sometimes I have to remind myself because I am sitting in front of a computer mostly, and it's a little abstract, as opposed to, you know, when I used to guide 15 people on a hike and you get that immediate person-to-person feedback, but then I remind myself, like four point whatever million people are going to come here every year and probably they're all going to interact with something that I made.
Jake: I think, I think it's safe to say, like almost every person is going to see something that you made. Yeah.
Miles: So, it's almost like my ROI is a lot higher. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jake: So, you like your job? Things are good. Do you have, a defining moment, would you say, like, in your career or something that kind of stands out as to like, oh, man, this is like I made it, or that was a cool thing that you got to make or do or be a part of?
Miles: Good question.
Jake: Thank you.
Ashton: Jake coming with the hard-hitting questions.
Miles: Yeah. The first time I drove into Kantishna, which you can't do right now because the bridges, there's a building, a new bridge, but, my first summer in Denali, I was a guide, and we had to get out to Kantishna, which is the end of the one road, literally, it, like, turns into an airstrip right after the place that I worked back there. That was pretty mind blowing. Yeah, it was a clear day. We're on the road with nobody else. the mountain was totally out, and I was just kind of like. Oh, like… ohhhhh!
Jake: I had the same moment.
Miles: Like an out-of-body experience.
Jake: I say that there are three things that have, like, changed me as a person. You know, that so far. I mean, obviously there can be more, but the first, first time going to Stony Overlook on a clear day and seeing Denali like in the distance, I just like I was just stand there like mind blown.
Miles: Yeah.
Jake: And then the first time I saw the Grand Canyon, because that was also, I was like, I was younger and I was like of the age where I was starting to appreciate things and I was just like, it's just like unfathomably big. Like you can't imagine, like, being the first people to show up and be like, oh, how do we get across this? And then, also seeing that Kilauea Volcano under the Milky Way at night, I remember going there and it was like glowing up into the sky on a clear night. You had the Milky Way, like, arching over it. And again, just like one of those, like, this is so cool that. Yeah, and it's cool that national parks, like, they were all in national parks, like, you know, like out of all the cool things that I've seen that it's just, I mean, it's cool that we get to do this.
Miles: Yeah. I mean, that's what makes it hard to choose is I've had so many. Yeah, over the years. But I mean, I, I did the seasonal job for fun and I, I think I tried to live a normal life one time after that for a few months. I'm like. And I just couldn't do it.
Ashton: Yeah
Miles: Not that there's not that there's anything wrong with it. Just yeah for me I yeah, I got hooked.
Jake: So, for people that are interested in doing this kind of work, let's get into some of the details. Like if someone goes to the USA jobs, what is the series they're looking for?
Miles: Yeah. So, I think a lot of the interviews for this podcast, we've had interesting, weird job titles, but this may be the weirdest. It's traditionally these jobs have been called visual information specialists. It's, 1084.
Jake: Okay.
Miles: I don't know why that's the title of the job, but it encompasses a lot of different things. It can be, gosh, it can range so much what that is. because I've, I've done a lot of digital stuff too. Like at Rocky, I was in charge of all the media, so you can be doing digital stuff, print stuff, audio, video, there's so many things. So that's one of them. But I think there's a movement right now to change a lot of the jobs, if not all of them over to 1001. Is that right?
Jake: Yeah, that's what I am.
Miles: Yeah. So, there's a recognition that visual information specialist is, doesn't quite cover all the things that these types of jobs do. So, there's a, there's a move towards that. And then I would also say there's as you guys know, there's public information and a lot of times almost exact same type of job as my job is advertised under different public information. Yeah. there's also like I said, there's then there's subspecialties, you know, like photography, which in my mind is a subfield of design, or like writer, editor. audio video production specialists.
Jake: That was a job I had, too.
Miles: So, I think, look for, you know, 1084 1001, but also when you're on USA jobs, just search for terms that, apply to what you're interested in in terms of like audio, video or editing or writing. And there's it's kind of all over the place. Yeah.
Jake: And I don't think we've said this yet, but like on OPM, there's a list of all the jobs. So, like the if you go to the OPM website, it's like the 1000 series is all of the like arts, right? So, from like one that like from 1001 to 1099, there's like a bunch of everything that we're mentioning kind of falls in there. And so, it seems like if you're looking for it, you could set, you know, alerts on a variety of those different keys. But it's good to know which ones specifically, if parks aren't flying them in a certain category, then doesn't make sense to, you know, it's a certain alert. You already mentioned all the training that you had, you know, for the design and everything. Is there any other like other than the design aspect and knowing how to run these programs, like, is it required that you have a formal training that you go to school for that, or could you just like, teach yourself how to do this? And you like, you know, a lot of people grow up and know how to use Photoshop and stuff.
Miles: I think you can teach yourself. I mean it a ton of it. I taught myself, I think, like you said, and curiosity is a big one, I think, for these positions. Yeah. Curiosity about different types of design work and, audio. Yeah, all that kind of stuff, but also subject matter. yeah. I did tons of personal projects, you know, like, I'd say I probably did more personal projects than work projects, to get into this kind of stuff, like whenever I was just seasonal, like a ton of photographs and had a blog and made books for friends and family that they didn't want that I thought were cool.
Jake: Yeah. So, it seems like you were interested in being creative and you just happened to find a job that.
Miles: Yeah, it's just fun to do that. Yeah, it's just kind of who I am. Yeah, yeah.
Jake: That's cool. Do you have any advice for people that, you know if they're looking to get into this career? Just general advice.
Miles: Make your own stuff if you have some opportunity to. I definitely know people who've gotten into it who are seasonal or permanent in a different career field, and they are a photographer and they start working on their photography and they get really good at it, or they start writing stuff or, you know, a lot of times I have projects that I need some help with from people out in the field who have that knowledge and they can. It's not volunteering because they're doing their job. But, you know, and generally with parks, with the federal, well, I shouldn't say federal. I just know Park Service. But, you know, you can spend up to 20% of your time on alternate things as long as there. And so definitely I did things like that. And other people in like interpretation or other staff do that as well. You can contribute to project. It's always hard for me to give advice because I just kind of.
Ashton: It is a winding road.
Miles: Yeah. I just yeah, I just kind of did what I was passionate about or interested in and got lucky. And it worked out, though it's hard for me to, to give it a specific advice, but, well, yeah.
Jake: Not so much like advice on like how well, like, what did you do that somebody else could replicate. But just like, what are the things that are going to set people up for success? And it seems like, you know, the things you just mentioned were.
Miles: Yeah, I also would say I have a lot of print knowledge. I don't know how much I would invest in that moving forward for people. but if you if there is something that you can learn that is a little less known or technical in a specific subfield, that can be helpful. Yeah. I would definitely say from now moving forward, people focusing on digital is really a good idea. So not that we write much code or anything, but just like our websites, we're thinking about like user experience in addition to all the other things apps, app design and, and working with databases and things like that is very helpful.
Jake: So, we like to end these with, you know, on a, on a high note where like, what's the fun thing? Do you have a favorite story or memory in Yellowstone or some other park? Like, you know, we kind of already touched a little bit about, you know, going out to Kantishna as the first time. That kind of blew your mind.
Jake: Is there like a non-work-related thing, maybe.
Miles: Yeah. My first summer here when I was, I got really lucky my first summer here because in Tara had over hired but I took a lot of time. I took a lot of those, like, anyone want Friday off? Yes, I do, I did a lot of backpacking, and one of my trips I was, I did Mount Washburn. No wait. Not Mount Washburn Mount Homes, which also had a fire lookout on it at that time. So, the I hiked in, my plan was hike into a meadow the next day, get up, go to the summit, come back, and the next morning get up, hike back out and be done. Kind of break it up. I think it's 20 Miles, round trip. Yeah. so that way I had like five Miles: in ten Miles: round trip, five Miles: out, nice, and nice and calm. And so, I did the night the hike in camped at a backcountry site and the next morning got up and there's like a big meadow right before you kind of get above tree line for Mount Holmes. And if I remember correctly, it has kind of a lot of little, like pothole ponds and things. And so, I was I kind of hiked up. I never done it before. I hiked up over this ridge and saw this big meadow, and there were just a ton of elk with their calves. I think, you know, they get away from the roads, especially at that time of year when the calves are young and things are. And so there must have been, I don't know, I'm going to say like around a hundred or something. And right as I came over the ridge, they were all acting really skittish, and I was really like one person by myself. I don't advocate backpacking by yourself in bear country, but I did.
Jake: Do as we say, not as we do.
Miles: I was young, I wouldn't do it now. My risk tolerance was different anyway, so they were acting really skittish and whatever. And they, they. So, I was hiking along kind of the edge and then they just started running. I was like, wow, I can't believe how skittish they are. Must be with the calves. And then I saw like looked up and there was a grizzly bear running like full speed, which you've never seen a grizzly bear running at full speed. It is, it is something like. It doesn't make sense. They run very fast; I think. What are they, 35 or.
Jake: Yeah. Kerry says like 40ft per second.
Miles: It's crazy. Like it doesn't look real. And the way they run is very odd because they're like very front heavy. they have the big shoulders and the shoulder hump and the big powerful front claws. It's almost like they grab the ground in front of them and just pull the rest of their body forward. And it was trying to chase down an elk.
Ashton: Wow.
Miles: Like a young a young elk, it looked like is probably a year-old elk that it was trying to get. And I was by myself. And it was my first summer and were a national park. And my first summer were in like mountains. And I was just like, whoa! And you could hear it like it was so heavy that you could hear the sound of it running.
Jake: Yeah.
Miles: So, I just kind of backed up against a tree, pulled my bear spray out every bear spray I had, my bear spray took the safety off, had it ready, and they ran like grizzly ran. Gosh, just probably, like, within 15ft of me did not care about me at all.
Ashton: Oh my gosh!
Miles: It was like in pursuit of this elk running uphill. And then they went into the trees, and they turned some kind of corner and came back the other way for other way down towards that meadow. And it ran forward and like sweat, one of the back legs of the elk and got it and got on the got, you know, started taking it down is going to eat it. And I was just like, I think I'm going to keep hiking. So I went, I started going up, you know, and I went up to the top and I got to the fire lookout, and I was really freaked out. And then I was talking to the guy who manned the lookout back then, or the person, the lookout who worked up there all summer. And that's a remote one. You can't drive to it, you know, you get resupplied by a pack animal, I'm pretty sure. And I mentioned, like, what I just seen. And he was like, yeah, there's a guy I got killed at Grizzly Lake a few years ago. And I was just like, don't say this to me. So, I hung out for a little while, and then I hiked all the way back down to my camp, and I packed up all my stuff, and I hiked out the whole way that night because I was just freaked out.
Ashton: Oh my gosh.
Miles: But yeah, that was that was pretty, pretty amazing. We'll never forget that one. Yeah, probably set me up. Well for risk management going forward, I was a lot more, aware of what can happen, which is anything, anything can happen. Which is why it's exciting.
Jake: And for people listening, just a friendly reminder that we encourage people to hike in groups.
Miles: Yes.
Jake: Make a lot of noise.
Miles: Yes.
Jake: Carry bear spray and know how to use it. Those are the that's how to proactively stay safe.
Miles: Yes.
Jake: Well, Miles, thank you for joining us today. It's been, interesting catching up and hearing about your job and what you do and all that.
Miles: My pleasure.
Jake: Ashton, do you have any other final questions for Miles?
Ashton: No, I don't think so. Thanks for joining us, Miles.
Miles: Any time.
Jake: Well, that's it for this week's episode of What We Do. Thanks again to our guest, Miles: Barger. If you like What We Do, write and review the show wherever you listen because every positive review helps new listeners find the show. If you have questions or you want to learn more about a particular job, contact us using the form at Go.nps.gov/WhatWeDoPodcast. Thanks for listening.
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